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JJ_BPK
08-07-2017, 09:37
Some may have read the Dallas PD had stop using the SIG P320 because of an unintentional fire accident, when it was dropped.

link: Dallas PD articla (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/08/02/breaking-p320-recall-issued-dallas-police-prohibited-duty-till-repaired/)

Here is a good test of the problem and one(1) solution.

link: SIG P320 test (https://www.omahaoutdoors.com/blog/sig-sauer-p320-fails-drop-test/)

Leozinho
08-07-2017, 18:58
Interesting test results.

All the internet Sig fanboys are claiming there was no accidental discharge at the Dallas PD and the recall was a result of someone reading the owners manual that states pistol may fire if dropped and getting unnecessarily worked up. The fanboys claim a lawyer must have inserted that verbiage in the manual as a CYA measure. Pretty convenient way to explain it away.

The test makes one think otherwise and perhaps DPD did have an drop fire.

Peregrino
08-08-2017, 09:07
Another issue to help lawyers get rich. After reading everything available - I'm neither concerned about the risk nor am I overly impressed by the Omaha Outdoors "testing"/hand wringing. OO induced a dropfire (with the commercial variant - no manual safety) and then set up the precise conditions to replicate the incident by creating a testing protocol to reliably and repetitively recreate conditions likely to be encountered .005% of the time in the real world (yes - I'm using hyperbole to make my point - they did too). Anything can be induced to fail if sufficient effort is expended. Zero defects is a pipedream; if Sig can address OO's concerns, perhaps with a lighter trigger or one with an integral trigger safety as they suggest, great. Otherwise, Sig has a business decision to make WRT risk vs. ROI. Personally, if I make a purchase decision for a Sig 320, it won't be influenced by the current tempest in a teacup. MOO, the solution is simple - don't abuse your expensive firearms by conducting drop tests. And I'm not a Sig "fanboy" for whatever that's worth.

JJ_BPK
08-08-2017, 17:53
SIG capitulates,, Free Upgrade, No Recall..


BREAKING: Sig Sauer Offers To Upgrade P320 Pistols In Wake Of Drop Safety Failures

In the wake of the news that the P320 has failed when drop tested by independent sources, Sig Sauer has offered to upgrade P320 pistol in the wake of the failures. Note that Sig Sauer is not issuing a recall of any kind, just that they are offering a program to upgrade the existing pistols with parts that Sig may have already developed.

Just 4 days ago, Sig reassured us that the P320 was safe and did not indicate that they were aware of a problem. They even stated, “All SIG SAUER pistols incorporate effective mechanical safeties to ensure they only fire when the trigger is pressed.” in the press release 4 days ago, recent independent testing indicates that this may not be the case after all. While I am not saying that Sig concealed anything from us, I do find it interesting that Sig seems to indicate in the most recent press release that the parts needed to upgrade the P320 have already been developed.

Sig Sauer has not returned our request for further comment at this time.

Sig does state that the upgrade program details will be released on their website on Monday, August 14, 2017 but does not indicate how the program will be run and what parts will be replaced. I have pasted the whole press release below.


link: (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/08/08/breaking-sig-sauer-offers-upgrade-p320-pistols-wake-drop-safety-failures/)

Old Dog New Trick
08-08-2017, 19:25
This is all well and good...Sigs QC went down the shitter years ago as with any mass production of firearms. Price goes up, quality comes down.

Something tells me Glock is going to use this to get the Army trials to reopen and continue the testing process.

mojaveman
08-08-2017, 19:51
Couldn't resist. :D

bblhead672
08-09-2017, 09:48
Piling on.... :D

JJ_BPK
08-10-2017, 06:36
and on....

:cool:

Hand
08-18-2017, 11:18
OO induced a dropfire (with the commercial variant - no manual safety) and then set up the precise conditions to replicate the incident by creating a testing protocol to reliably and repetitively recreate conditions likely to be encountered .005% of the time in the real world (yes - I'm using hyperbole to make my point - they did too).

Has this criteria been applied to other guns to determine if they suffer the same deficiency?

JamesIkanov
08-20-2017, 04:20
I dunno about the manual safety variant, but there are at least two known problems with the civilian version.

One is the known drop fire problem mentioned in this thread. Several slow motion recordings have shown that a factor in this issue is that the trigger has enough inertia to essentially "pull itself" when dropped at the right angle, due to the lack of trigger safety. Unless the trigger is substantially different in weight or construction in the MHS version, I can think of no reason why this issue would not be present if the manual safety was disengaged, but it seems reasonable that engaging the manual safety would prevent this problem. However, this does not mean the guns is safe with the manual safety, as the second issue shows.


The other is a lesser known issue that presents itself in a fashion much like the above, but is mechanically different in nature. If the back of the slide where the striker assembly is exposed is struck with enough force, the striker may (but will not always) fire as though the trigger has been pulled. I can't say whether this problem would be present with or without the manual safety being engaged, especially depending on any internal differences between manual safety or no manual safety. This issue is not something where you have to smack the gun with a sledge hammer. It was induced using a plastic gunsmiths mallet.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/08/11/was-the-p320-hammer-test-scientific/

The above is not isolated, I've seen another test of the same issue occurring.

The only common theme between the two is that smacking or dropping the gun on the back of the slide/frame is bad news. I'm not a fan of the trigger tab safeties, but that or a lighter (literally weight of the mechanical component) trigger would fix the first issue. The second.... Who knows. Could be multiple issues all at once.

JJ_BPK
01-30-2018, 08:31
Looks like the new SIG is a PIG





Army's New Pistols Often Eject Live Rounds and Don't Work Well With Regular Bullets

The U.S. Army’s decision to select two versions of Sig Sauer’s 9mm P320 pistol as the new standard sidearms across the service was not without controversy, including a formal protest by competing gun maker Glock, which claimed the service didn't complete certain critical tests. The Pentagon recently released a report that shows testing of the M17 and M18 handguns exposed a number of significant and persistent deficiencies, including firing accidentally if a shooter dropped the gun, ejecting live ammunition, and low reliability with traditional "ball" cartridges with bullets enclosed inside a full metal jacket.

These and other details were in the Pentagon’s Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation review of such work during the 2017 fiscal year, which it published earlier in January 2018. This regular report covers a wide variety of high profile weapon systems and other important equipment across the U.S. military, including the Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS) program. In January 2017, the Army chose Sig Sauer to supply a total more than 300,000 of the full size M17 and compact M18 pistols as part of that project, a deal worth approximately $580 million. The other U.S. military services are now considering following suit and adopting the guns and the company is making essentially the same gun available to civilian shooters as well.


Ihttp://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18047/armys-new-pistols-often-eject-live-rounds-and-dont-work-well-with-regular-bullets

Anyone hear if they tried dead rounds?? :D

Streck-Fu
01-30-2018, 08:42
How does that even work?

JJ_BPK
01-30-2018, 09:01
How does that even work?

I'm guessing, the mag lips are bent open and when the slide slams back, the juilt pops out the top round?

Streck-Fu
01-30-2018, 09:06
I was wondering if they meant to describe a double feed but... that is not a current issue on the P320.... So did Sig go back to that shitty magazine manufacturer?

bblhead672
01-30-2018, 14:16
So did Sig go back to that shitty magazine manufacturer?

Just for the military contract! :D

Everything touched by the DC swamp monster smells like bull excrement.

Old Dog New Trick
01-30-2018, 14:31
This weapon will never be adopted by the French Army, too much risk of someone getting accidentally shot. :D