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"Ohio city councilman proposes BANNING opioid addicts from getting Narcan after their second overdose......"
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4655150/Ohio-city-councilman-Cut-Narcan-3-overdoses.html#ixzz4lWZ8br8w
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Personally I do not think this guy is too far off base with his proposal to allow you only two rescues from your own stupidity, in fact I think he might even be considered as too generous. If you knowingly inject harmful drugs into your body and that results in the tax payer having to save your life multiple times, you are abusing the system and there should be no room in society for the likes of you. You are not my problem.
As an EMT, it's not my job to decide who lives and who dies. If I refuse to treat a patient, even the "frequent flyer", I lose my license, permanently. The lawsuits that would ensue from such a policy would be far more costly than all of the doses of Narcan.
Never fly.... Lawyers will be lining up for the payday if they enacted something like that.
Old Dog New Trick
06-30-2017, 17:37
While I don't agree with sustaining stupidity and personally feel that if you are dumb enough to inject, snort, smoke or stick something in your eye that may kill you you might just deserve to die a horrible death.
Now, having said that, when I was doing my EMT-P training and re-certification rides, every EMT or police officer I knew thought it was a genuine honor to ruin a good high with Narcan. Few drugies were truly happy with the fact that you just came along and wasted all the money they spent and all the trouble they went to breaking into houses and cars to buy their heroine or whatever.
Saw and heard a lot of "why in the f_ck did you just stick that sh!t into me!"
The congressman would be better off just canceling the whole program that untrained police are using life saving class III controlled substances in the daily conduct of their jobs. The liability is too high and the cost of stocking and maintaining Narcan by the departments is a burden the tax payers shouldn't have to bear.
Now, having said that, when I was doing my EMT-P training and re-certification rides, every EMT or police officer I knew thought it was a genuine honor to ruin a good high with Narcan.
The preferred method now is intra-nasal spray, administered slowly and titrated to return of spontaneous breathing. Makes them a LOT less testy and combative when they come off their high slowly.
Never fly.... Lawyers will be lining up for the payday if they enacted something like that.
The city councilman who proposed it is a lawyer. . .
Old Dog New Trick
06-30-2017, 17:52
The preferred method now is intra-nasal spray, administered slowly and titrated to return of spontaneous breathing. Makes them a LOT less testy and combative when they come off their high slowly.
Is everything 'kinder and gentler' these days? :rolleyes:
:D
Save the life but make it painful in the pocket book......or find a way to make them pay, garnish wages etc.....
It's just another form of recycling, the human form. Worthless individuals in a revolving door of tax payer kindness. My son is an RN out in San Francisco he sees the same junkies and losers get cleaned up discharged and then later readmitted. Just how far is our compassion suppose to extend?
Old Dog New Trick
06-30-2017, 18:37
It's just another form of recycling, the human form. Worthless individuals in a revolving door of tax payer kindness. My son is an RN out in San Francisco he sees the same junkies and losers get cleaned up discharged and then later readmitted. Just how far is our compassion suppose to extend?
They'll just move to Seattle. The mayor up there loves homeless junkies more than school aged kids.
Is everything 'kinder and gentler' these days? :rolleyes:
:D
Actually, it's self-preservation. Slow push means a less combative patient. ;)
The city councilman who proposed it is a lawyer. . .
That doesn't mean he is a good one. I have known a lot of worthless lawyers.
A while back I posted(not sure if here/elsewhere) on the opioid epidemic.
IIRC, during a period between 2007-2011 in the Mid-Atlantic region total prescribed opioid active ingredient exploded approx 50x, due to increasingly stronger pills being distributed and prescribed.
Just crazy numbers.......
Found it:
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=621874&postcount=4
What the heck is going on?
ObamaCare "Death panel"
is a political term that originated during the 2009 debate about federal health care legislation to cover the uninsured in the United States.[1] Sarah Palin, former Republican Governor of Alaska, coined the term when she charged that proposed legislation would create a "death panel" of bureaucrats who would decide whether Americans—such as her elderly parents or children with Down syndrom —were "worthy of medical care".
eu·gen·ics yo͞oˈjeniks/
noun: eugenics
The science of improving a human population by controlled breeding to increase the occurrence of desirable heritable characteristics. Developed largely by Francis Galton as a method of improving the human race, it fell into disfavor only after the perversion of its doctrines by the Nazis.
Parents of brain-damaged baby lose fight to keep him on life support
The mother and father of a brain-damaged 11-month-old baby on Friday were sitting bedside with the boy after losing a legal battle that would have kept the boy on life support. The Wall Street Journal reported that doctors at the Great Ormond Street Hospital for Children in London, who are caring for Charlie Gard received permission from a court to discontinue life support. The boy’s parents objected to the decision and wanted to take him to the U.S. for an unproven, experimental therapy.
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2017/07/01/parents-brain-damaged-baby-lose-fight-to-keep-him-on-life-support.html
My brother died at age 49 as a result of his alcohol & drug addictions. Up until the day he died, he would not admit the problem,, it was someone else fault for his condition.
I don't have a solution, but I am leery of any test that would be used to deny medical care.
After the first "law",, it will be easy to add other afflictions,,
because they are similar,, and convenient,, and save money..
:mad:
That doesn't mean he is a good one. I have known a lot of worthless lawyers.
Yes, but the thought crossed my mind that his proposal might benefit him professionally. . .
Team Sergeant
07-01-2017, 12:12
City councilman Dan Picard of Middletown, Ohio spoken like a true moron.
If you want to help the addicts target the dealers. Fifty years prison time for dealing opioids, no parole.
Target the dealers, because America no longer has the balls to target the cartels.
City councilman Dan Picard of Middletown, Ohio spoken like a true moron.
If you want to help the addicts target the dealers. Fifty years prison time for dealing opioids, no parole.
Target the dealers, because America no longer has the balls to target the cartels.
How do we define "dealer"?
The macro data, such as 50x increase in active ingredient prescribed in just a narrow product range, suggests there is an accountability problem with legal manufacturers, distributors, physicians, and pharmacists.
My brother died at age 49 as a result of his alcohol & drug addictions. Up until the day he died, he would not admit the problem,, it was someone else fault for his condition.
I don't have a solution, but I am leery of any test that would be used to deny medical care.
After the first "law",, it will be easy to add other afflictions,,
because they are similar,, and convenient,, and save money..
:mad:
JJ I am sorry for your loss, drugs and alcohol claimed my older brother too. Perhaps it is time to redefine just what the war on drugs should be. Seems to me that a truce was declared by the Obama administration and it was decided that the drug laws and sentencing guidelines were to be ignored. The new AG is interested in enforcing the laws on the books and the left is going bonkers. Your point and the point of others regarding the denial of medical care is certainly a valid one. No easy answer here at least not one that we will all be able to stomach.
Perhaps it is time to redefine just what the war on drugs should be.
I see the war on drugs as two ply TP..
On one side you have people that want to make money.. Good laws, good LEO's and good Judges can fix the problem.
On the other you have people that are either mentally or genetically weak.. This is the half that is not addressed at all.
:mad:
Team Sergeant
07-02-2017, 10:05
How do we define "dealer"?
The macro data, such as 50x increase in active ingredient prescribed in just a narrow product range, suggests there is an accountability problem with legal manufacturers, distributors, physicians, and pharmacists.
When oxycodone was invented many doc's said it was a really bad drug and I would agree.
If you're at a point where you need that sort of pain reliever you should instead be in a drug induced coma and have the problem fixed.
Then again what is it like 50% of Americans are on some sort of psychotropic drugs anyway......... so who cares.
And we do have a system in dealing with the legal drugs, its called a court of law.
Let's start with the illegal drugs first and work our way to the legal ones.
My surgeon told me she prescribed oxy because it was less harmful to the body overall. It did absolutely nothing for me. I switched to plain old aspirin the morning after surgery and it did the job just fine.
Pat
NurseTim
07-02-2017, 19:12
Yes i remember those days. .8 to 2mg slow iv push titrated to breathing. Yea right. I always gave 2 mg for pt safety. :rolleyes:
I always slammed 2mg to them. They were pissed as a hornet when they came up swinging. :D:p
NurseTim
07-02-2017, 19:19
Save the life but make it painful in the pocket book......or find a way to make them pay, garnish wages etc.....
Really? Garnish wages? What from burglary, auto theft? Do they get a w-2 or a 1099 as a private contractor?
Maybe cut off all local, state, and federal benefits.
I always slammed 2mg to them. They were pissed as a hornet when they came up swinging. :D:p
Yes, but you can get away from those swings a lot easier in an ER than you can in the back of an ambulance.
PedOncoDoc
07-03-2017, 07:58
I good look at the roots of the opioid epidemic - fault lies (as it often does) with the pharmaceutical company, the FDA, the push for aggressive pain management from the DHHS and federal mandate, and insurance tying medical reimbursement to patient satisfaction.
Here is an excellent article from last year that sums a lot of it up. (http://observer.com/2016/05/the-opioid-epidemic-its-time-to-place-blame-where-it-belongs/)
As someone who takes care of children with life-threatening illnesses and children with terminal cancer, I prescribe a lot of narcotics - interestingly, the oncologists typically aren't audited despite being heavy prescribers due to the nature of our practice.
Team Sergeant
07-03-2017, 09:36
Yes, but you can get away from those swings a lot easier in an ER than you can in the back of an ambulance.
Been there done that........
Was working with a female paramedic in Fayetteville, got a call to pick up a drug dealer that just ingested his drugs to hide them from the arresting police.
We arrive, pick him up and of to the ER. Paramedic hits him with the narcan and tells me "Keep him on the gurney". He lifts his head and growls and I grab his forehead and shove him back into the gurney. He looks at me and is "done".
She looks at me as says, "You follow orders well." I was a brand new EMT.
Here is an excellent article from last year that sums a lot of it up. (http://observer.com/2016/05/the-opioid-epidemic-its-time-to-place-blame-where-it-belongs/)
Very good article. Here's another article (https://www.ems1.com/opioids/articles/267981048-Painful-words-How-a-1980-letter-fueled-the-opioid-epidemic/) about a 1980 letter that was misused to justify the rampant prescription of opiods early on.
When oxycodone was invented many doc's said it was a really bad drug and I would agree.
If you're at a point where you need that sort of pain reliever you should instead be in a drug induced coma and have the problem fixed.
Then again what is it like 50% of Americans are on some sort of psychotropic drugs anyway......... so who cares.
And we do have a system in dealing with the legal drugs, its called a court of law.
Let's start with the illegal drugs first and work our way to the legal ones.
Could not agree more with you as to getting the problem fixed. I have been having issues with my neck for 21 months now. Was prescribed Oxycodone once for 30 days that was over 12 months ago. Recently the pain is getting very intolerable especially at night the neck doc prescribed Tramadol, my son the RN tells me the junkies do not like it when they get Tramadol, no more OXY for them at his hospital. I have issues at C3 C4 C5, doc says we can fuse your whole neck but we won't. I had a series of nerve blocks to determine where I could expect to get the most relief, C4 C5 was the winner, so Thursday morning at 0730 I will enter into a drug induced coma and get it fixed. For the life of me I do not get the buzz or the dependence for opioids, they make me feel not right in the head. The only addiction I ever suffered from by choice was nicotine and I gave that up 6 years ago.
NurseTim
07-05-2017, 00:30
I good look at the roots of the opioid epidemic - fault lies (as it often does) with the pharmaceutical company, the FDA, the push for aggressive pain management from the DHHS and federal mandate, and insurance tying medical reimbursement to patient satisfaction.
Here is an excellent article from last year that sums a lot of it up. (http://observer.com/2016/05/the-opioid-epidemic-its-time-to-place-blame-where-it-belongs/)
As someone who takes care of children with life-threatening illnesses and children with terminal cancer, I prescribe a lot of narcotics - interestingly, the oncologists typically aren't audited despite being heavy prescribers due to the nature of our practice.
I hold the American pain society largely responsible with their position that "Pain is what the patient says it is." And making the pain scale, now largely useless, the "6th vital sign".
doctom54
07-05-2017, 16:34
I hold the American pain society largely responsible with their position that "Pain is what the patient says it is." And making the pain scale, now largely useless, the "6th vital sign".
The Joint Commission is just as culpable. As always it never hurts to follow the money.
At around the same time, the companies that manufactured these narcotics—including Purdue Pharma, Johnson & Johnson, and Endo Pharmaceuticals—began to aggressively market their products for long-term, non-cancer pain, including neck and back pain. They promoted their prescription narcotics to doctors through ads in highly regarded publications, and through continuing-education courses for medical professionals. They also funded non-profits such as the American Academy of Pain Management and the American Pain Society—the latter previously headed by Dr. Russell Portenoy, a co-author of the Pain study and a proselytizer for expanded narcotics prescribing. The American Pain Society published guidelines that advocated for doctors to expand their use of prescription narcotics to relieve pain.
http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/who-is-responsible-for-the-pain-pill-epidemic
I've been through three neck surgeries, the last of which allowed me to be able to walk without a deficit that I had developed. Too much hard and fast living with a spine that wasn't up to it. Unfortunately, despite seeing every neurosurgeon and pain doc worth seeing at major facilities in the US, I've been told repeatedly that there is nothing surgical they can do for my continued pain, so I have extremely reluctantly after 4 years just started to accept that I am likely going to have to continue to be a chronic pain patient, and be reliant on opioids if I want to be able to be upright for more than 2-3 hours a day.
I freaking hate having to be on the stuff. I just hate having pain so severe that it leaves me confined to the reclined position even more. I have learned that there is some pain that can be so severe that trying to push through it and do anything but want to snarl at everyone around me is pretty much impossible.
There are some of us folks out there that really do need the meds. Believe me. I have tried everything under the sun to not need them, and have tapered down and off a couple of times, done all sorts of other interventional procedures. Nothing has worked to eliminate the pain.
All the knuckleheads out there abusing the drugs make it more and more difficult for me and others who really need the meds to function. It seems like every appointment I go to with my pain doc, there are new restrictions on what he can do as far as prescriptions go. My doc isn't supposed to give out more than two weeks of medication at a time, and now the state is limiting the max daily dosage of opioids the doc can prescribe to non-cancer patients. If you aren't a cancer patient, and need more than the arbitrary limit the state has set for you to try to improve your quality of life, it sucks to be you.