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TOMAHAWK9521
05-26-2017, 22:44
Gents,

I recently attended a local town meeting here in SE Idaho concerning the upcoming solar eclipse. The meeting only lasted an hour but it was the first source of information for most of the people in this area. It was an informal gathering and the information was provided by the current folks in charge of the general welfare of the town/valley. I sat and took brief notes so I am only repeating what I heard. Understand, this information concerns primarily the valley in which I live. I won’t try to cover what I’ve heard the authorities are working on over in the other valleys, national parks or Jackson Hole, WY.

They are classifying this event equivalent to a Type III event. I looked that up online and found this:
III. Confrontation Crisis
♣ Confrontation crises arise when employees fight amongst themselves. Individuals do not agree to each other and eventually depend on non-productive acts like boycotts, strikes for indefinite periods and so on.
♣ In such a type of crisis, employees disobey superiors; give them ultimatums and force them to accept their demands.
♣ Internal disputes, ineffective communication and lack of coordination give rise to confrontation crisis.

This definition may not be what those of you familiar with civil management were thinking of, but it seemed to fit my understanding of what we might be faced with.

Authorities are anticipating possibly 250-500K additional people descending upon the region on top of the regular tourist crowds that visit this region. Those “regular” numbers include all those people from around the world who have made reservations at every venue imaginable in the region.

Idaho will have some 20K square miles of coverage from the total solar eclipse. Although it will only last roughly 2:30 for those areas directly under the path, all those people coming into here will likely try to find and reach what they believe is the optimum spot to view it. Sheriff’s deputies expect all manner of vehicles, vehicles with campers, horse-back riders, ATVs, bikers, bicyclist, and hikers all scrambling into this mountainous region, vying for the best place to view the eclipse.

Traffic is forecasted to be a nightmare of epic proportions. We were told they are planning on directing all the lanes on I-15 coming from Salt Lake City to flow north on the day of the event prior to the eclipse and then reverse the direction after it passes. I was told this was done during the Olympic games. “Day-trippers” will almost certainly make up the bulk of this human wave. If they can’t reach their desired destination in time for the event, they will likely stop where they are and everyone else be damned.

Also, a group of short-sighted morons planned a bike race from West Yellowstone, I believe, that will go south (in more ways than one, most likely) and arrive in the Teton Valley just in time for the eclipse. I can’t imagine the traffic sh*t storm that is going to cause.

Yellowstone will be closing its gates at a predetermined time prior to event after a certain number of guests have entered. That should also be well received by the uninformed and unprepared.

The counties affected by this wave of people will enforce a fire ban to mitigate the chance of wildfires as this will take place at the height of fire season in this part of the country. Still, I’m sure there will be many a jackass who will do their best to incinerate themselves and/or those around them as well as the surrounding landscape.

One of the topics most people failed to think of is unforeseen amount of human waste that will likely be dumped in this rural/ag/mountainous/forest/wilderness region. There are no more porta-potties available to rent or charter in Idaho or the surrounding states. If there are any. They must be service by a certified agent licensed in the state of Idaho. Those that are in place will not easily be accessible to be serviced due to the aforementioned traffic congestion.
It has been said that if it gets that bad, folks could simply just get out of the car and take a dump on the side of the road. I reminded the group about the number of people who will want to be out of the reservoir during the event who will likely wind up chumming the waters. The deputy nodded and grinned a bit when I said that while everyone else cringed and voiced their disgust at the mention of it. Looks like we may have some real brown trout this August.

Support was requested from the governor’s office but it seems they are saying this is a local matter and will have nothing to do with it. This means there will be no national guard to augment the extremely thinned out sheriff’s department as well as the limited wildlife officers and federal land management officers. The state will take a FEMA plan of action and do nothing until all hell breaks loose. The deputy sheriff in attendance did announce that the at least the sheriff’s office was taking the potential issues extremely seriously, even if the state government was not.

The regional leaders have asked Verizon, which is our main cellular provider in the area, to provide additional cell towers/coverage to handle the increased use of bandwidth. This includes everyone trying to real-time the event to friends back home. As of this writing, Verizon has declined and said they will only be boosting the bandwidth in major urban areas located in the path of the eclipse. The worst-case scenario means we can expect loss of phone service due to loss of bandwidth or feds taking over the net should this event evolve into a crisis.

When I heard this I foolishly spoke up and inquired if anyone had tried to contact and/or organize a local/regional ham radio network. The guy heading up this meeting looked at me like I had just suggested we hire a bunch of monkeys equipped with honey-powered jet packs to deliver hand-written notes in bottles. He, of course, said “no” and asked if I knew any ham operators, which I currently don’t. Folks then began peppering me with questions about ham radios and their availability. Looks like I put myself into the limelight so I have to get studying for my license in order to work on establishing a ham network.

There is also the concern of a brown-out from the grid being overloaded. We already had a black out for 8 hours last summer when the substation over in Pocatello had a fire and shut down the regional grid. Should that happen with a potential population of a major city sitting on top of us, I imagine it will get ugly.

The human impact on local wildlife, livestock, crop lands, businesses, public lands, and private property cannot be calculated at this time.

We were highly advised to stock up on supplies (food, water & gas) for a week. Those residents who had guests at their venues or private residence were told to prepare to hold up for a week and don’t expect to egress from the A/O for at the very least 24 hours.

As for dealing with unwanted visitors trespassing on their property, we were advised to mark off our properties with signage and close and lock gates to mitigate any possible confrontations. The deputy representing the sheriff’s office said they would be doing all they could to mitigate any issues but those issues would have to be prioritized, thus their ability to respond would be dictated by the seriousness of the incident, availability of personnel and traffic conditions.

So, from what I have gathered from this meeting is we could be seeing a potential reverse SHTF scenario where everyone is coming here rather than trying to get away. Now I have no excuse for not getting my place fortified.
1. My place is small but I’m in a good location and have easy access to water.
2. I’ve got enough hardware to repel/defend the home but will have to load/purchase more peas to shoot.
3. I’ve got several small FAKs.
4. I should have my initial fabrication shop (textiles primarily) up and running in another week or two.
5. I’ve already begun grabbing extra non-perishable food and bottled water when I go out.
6. I need to finally get my ham radio license. I’ve got a Yaesu hand-held but will likely have to upgrade to at least one base station-type platform.
7. I need to bite the bullet and pick up a generator and additional fuel cans.

Any suggestions from the community would be welcome.

cbtengr
05-27-2017, 08:35
Thank you for the heads up concerning this event this is the first I have heard of it. As I hate crowds I can assure you that I will not be adding to the congestion in your AO. :D

sfshooter
05-27-2017, 09:00
I heard of an eclipse coming but didn't know the date. Didn't realize that there would be optimum viewing points. From what I can tell I am as north of Yellowstone as you are south. I haven't heard any concerns talked about over this event and I work for the county. I'll have to keep my ears tuned and ask a few questions about what might be the situation up here. Thanks for the heads up.

Golf1echo
05-27-2017, 09:07
Probably just the populous from Portland...what could go wrong? I thought you were moving away from people :D

https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEmono/TSE2017/TSE2017.html

Might go North to link up with another here and it also looks like it's passing over Highlands,NC again.

Edit: We experienced an intensity shut down due to a large race that was put on in a neighboring county a couple of years. The infrastructure just couldn't handle all the traffic ie State Hwy had 4 hour delays for thru traffic, restaurants, gas, basic necessities were in high demand, etc... ( 2 day duration)

What I thought was interesting was the American enthusiasm for economics, little food, fruit, local commodities ( jam, jelly, honey, boiled peanuts...), necessity, and nic nac stands cropped up along the arteries. Might be a great time to make some cash! "Solar fed Idaho tater treats eclipsed only by the burgers and beef". Yes we have some viewing disks too.

DaveP
05-27-2017, 09:17
Expected finite duration, at least initial impact, alt comms and stores seem like great priorities.
Any non-road-dependent mobility options, beyond feet? Horse, MTB, ATV/dirtbike? I'm guessing your terrain and distances would make travel overland a difficult choice.

DaveP

TOMAHAWK9521
05-27-2017, 11:10
Mind you, I'm taking all this with a big grain of salt. However, unlike others in the valley, I don't have a family here nor an eating establishment right off the at the only intersection in the valley nor livestock and pasture land along the only road going through the valley.

Unless I'm mistaken, north of I-80, south of I-90 and east of I-15 the roads are pretty much all two-lane. This region doesn't accommodate multi-lane highways very well. Mountains, rivers, canyons, and lakes can be such an inconvenience. Plus, they're difficult to maintain during long, heavy winters up here and from looking around, there isn't enough year-round population density to warrant wider roads nor taxing the permanent residents to maintain them.

Worst case scenario for me would require me to egress the A/O by fording the Snake River 200 yards to my south and then hoof it around or up and over the mountains in a generally southern direction.

This valley lends itself to be defendable by capable and trained people. However, it could become a real problem when there are no hostilities and potentially 500K tourists feel obliged to swarm into here for a once-in-a-lifetime event.

As for capitalizing on the event and making some pocket change, a couple of friends suggested I exploit the lack of porte-potties and go buy a bunch of Home Depot buckets and small plastic trash bags and stand along the road selling "Shit Bags" to passing cars. I added to it with the idea to write, in big black marker, names like Obama, Pelosi, Comey, Clinton, Holder, etc, on those buckets to let consumers know that these were genuine "Shit Bags" I was selling them. :D:D

PSM
05-27-2017, 11:33
I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be another Y2K event. Most people are too lazy to travel any great distance to watch a two minute and thirty second event. Some will even be frightened off by the it for some odd reason. I've seen it before. Especially when they find out that's it's part of the Jade Helm 17 exercise. ;)

Pat

Oh, here are some pix from Cabo San Lucas of the 1991 Total Eclipse. (These were taken by a professional astrophotographer that was hired by our group.) The white specks are dust on my scanner, not stars.

Team Sergeant
05-27-2017, 12:28
This valley lends itself to be defendable by capable and trained people.

I can be there in about 13-14 hours.;)

One well placed sniper can hold off hundreds/thousands under the right conditions......:munchin

Flagg
05-27-2017, 14:10
Cool!

And I'm coincidentally visiting the US during that period, but unfortunately a bit south of the eclipse track.

Hopefully enough of a partial eclipse to memorable.

As to the potential for a rush of humanity to view it in less populated areas, observations from it could be quite interesting.

Hand
05-30-2017, 07:13
Tomohawk. The amateur radio community typically has active radio repeaters and/or networks available no matter where you are already in place. I'm guessing on your location, but here (https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/location_search.php?state_id=16&type=city&loc=Pocatello) is a list of repeaters currently in operation in Pocatello. They are all uhf/vhf repeaters and are available for operators (I know, its a ham term) with technician class licenses.

You can see a list of repeaters state wide here (https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/index.php?state_id=16) grouped by city/town and county.

If you narrow down your search to a specific repeater or repeaters of interest, you can contact the club or private owners and discuss details with them about coverage, their willingness to serve as part of a temporary net, etc...

Most repeater owners I have met are usually willing to get involved in helping their communities via the use of their repeater/s.

You may also gain some traction by getting in touch with your local ARES section leader (http://www.arrl.org/Groups/view/idaho). Their purpose is emergency comms and may already be well aware of what infrastructure is in place to support your needs.


As far as base stations, I would HIGHLY recommend this one (http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-008951). Coupled with an antenna like this one which comes with feed line to attach to your transciever. (http://www.2wayelectronix.com/Dual-band-2m-70cm-Slim-Jim-Antenna-with-16-or-10-rg-58-DUAL-16.htm). The higher you can get this, the better it will be of course. I have one in my attic and I can talk full quieting to a repeater ~50 miles away on medium power. This radio also does cross-banding, allowing me to talk to that same distant repeater using my handheld as long as I am in range of my home base station.

The same Kenwood rig would also make a fine mobile radio. I have a similar rig (http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-000125) in my vehicle. Both do cross banding, both have removeable face plates for more flexible mounting options. The Yaesu does offer the extra capability of doing 6m and 10m fm which IMO do offer important utility if you are waaayyy out of repeater range and have the proper antenna and some altitude.



I'm a very active ham. If there is any way I can help in regards to amateur radio, please feel free to hit me up.

TOMAHAWK9521
05-30-2017, 09:05
Tomohawk. The amateur radio community typically has active radio repeaters and/or networks available no matter where you are already in place. I'm guessing on your location, but here (https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/location_search.php?state_id=16&type=city&loc=Pocatello) is a list of repeaters currently in operation in Pocatello. They are all uhf/vhf repeaters and are available for operators (I know, its a ham term) with technician class licenses.

You can see a list of repeaters state wide here (https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/index.php?state_id=16) grouped by city/town and county.

If you narrow down your search to a specific repeater or repeaters of interest, you can contact the club or private owners and discuss details with them about coverage, their willingness to serve as part of a temporary net, etc...

Most repeater owners I have met are usually willing to get involved in helping their communities via the use of their repeater/s.

You may also gain some traction by getting in touch with your local ARES section leader (http://www.arrl.org/Groups/view/idaho). Their purpose is emergency comms and may already be well aware of what infrastructure is in place to support your needs.


As far as base stations, I would HIGHLY recommend this one (http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-008951). Coupled with an antenna like this one which comes with feed line to attach to your transciever. (http://www.2wayelectronix.com/Dual-band-2m-70cm-Slim-Jim-Antenna-with-16-or-10-rg-58-DUAL-16.htm). The higher you can get this, the better it will be of course. I have one in my attic and I can talk full quieting to a repeater ~50 miles away on medium power. This radio also does cross-banding, allowing me to talk to that same distant repeater using my handheld as long as I am in range of my home base station.

The same Kenwood rig would also make a fine mobile radio. I have a similar rig (http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-000125) in my vehicle. Both do cross banding, both have removeable face plates for more flexible mounting options. The Yaesu does offer the extra capability of doing 6m and 10m fm which IMO do offer important utility if you are waaayyy out of repeater range and have the proper antenna and some altitude.



I'm a very active ham. If there is any way I can help in regards to amateur radio, please feel free to hit me up.

Much oblige, Hand.

I like that antenna. I had already figured I would use a number of the cottonwood trees on my property to set up one or more clandestine-type antenna rather than install the typical antenna masts or towers. Although this is a fairly conservative area and most folks who have heard about the "new guy" in the valley, know I'm retired military, I'm trying to keep a low profile. I haven't met anyone disagreeable yet but I know some of them are prone to hang out at the one or two local watering holes and talk about everything going on in the valley, including what their neighbors have or are doing. It takes time but it's fun using my creative design skills to mask or hide projects, improvements and fortifications.

The Reaper
05-30-2017, 09:32
I would expect most people to stay home and watch this on television, but if it gets people thinking and preparing, it is a good thing.

TR

Hand
05-30-2017, 13:40
Much oblige, Hand.
I like that antenna.

I'm glad I could offer some useful information. If you have some tall trees, you have a great number of options for antenna selection. There are a number of antennas that lend themselves especially well to home builders; from exotic dual band dipoles to more... esoteric stuff like this Dish network satellite dish antenna (http://w6nbc.com/articles/20xx-dishslot.pdf).

Badger52
05-30-2017, 18:28
Hand gave some good info, like a well-made Slim Jim myself. One other thing that may be useful since many rural areas are still plain unencrypted VHF would be to get something (scanner or inexpensive programmable HT) to simply receive with & not tie up a dedicated rig. Often listening is better than talking. Often it pays off knowing where NOT to be. Load it with freqs for public works stuff, as well as LE/other emerg stuff.

JH2017, huh Pat? lol

TOMAHAWK9521
05-30-2017, 21:32
I'm glad I could offer some useful information. If you have some tall trees, you have a great number of options for antenna selection. There are a number of antennas that lend themselves especially well to home builders; from exotic dual band dipoles to more... esoteric stuff like this Dish network satellite dish antenna (http://w6nbc.com/articles/20xx-dishslot.pdf).

Funny you should mention the DISH. This place came with a DISH antenna the previous owners left behind.

It's been a while since I was an 18E so I'm a little rusty on some of the old field craft antennas. I don't know if the cottonwoods themselves would be of any use. If I had lodge pole pines or palm trees here I could use the actual trees as my antennas wth the help of a couple of knives or spikes. Some of the trees on the property are fairly big/tall but climbing them is iffy. Cottonwoods are notorious for constantly shedding limbs and since these ones haven't been maintained or pruned in a while, I might have to employ a bow or other projectile mechanism to get my balun up there.

As for the equipment itself, I feel like I'm decades behind. Despite the weight and all the damned accessories required to use them, I always loved using the 70, 74 and 104 HF radios. It always seemed like a true skill or craft with HF rather than just plugging into a SATCOM antenna and keying the mike. My teammates hated having to help carry the gear but I had a pretty good record for making comms so they refrained from murdering me in my sleep. However, I recently visited the Ham Radio Store in Denver and was blown away by both the gear and technical information the guys were throwing at me. Maybe it's just all the added bells and whistles on the equipment that make it seem so complicated.

Hand
05-31-2017, 06:32
Badger - great suggestion. Something like a cheap Baofeng (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01J2W4JUI?ref=emc_b_5_t) can be loaded up with hundreds of useful freqs with minimal effort. There is a free programming program :) called CHIRP that when coupled with a programming cable matching your HT manufacturer allows you to spend an hour or so gathering frequencies of interest and about 5 minutes dumping them, en masse, onto your HT. There is a Reaper thread in the archives that discusses radios, reliability, range, etc...

Tomahawk - I would love to run across a resource for field expedient antennas as your last post hinted at. I never considered that a live tree would conduct RF, but since reading your post I feel foolish not considering it. There are a lot of resources on ham related sites/forums for field expedient wire antennas in different configurations, most require a tuner and some time to get tuned, period. I'm curious now about the capabilities of those military radios that y'all have performed magic with.

There are some small, low power rigs that can be purchased or even built ( link (http://qrpme.com/?p=TUNAS) ) which when coupled with a few feet of wire slung up in a tree will let you dit dah around the world.

The gear available today can be very intimidating, it is powerful and has a lot of functionality. As far as learning curves, Kenwood seems to have the best of the big 3. They don't rely as heavily on menu's as the other two and after spending a few minutes programming in a couple frequency pairs, using the Function key + another key to get to things like offset, shift, tone, etc quickly become logical. My .0002 of course!

Badger52
05-31-2017, 15:17
...allows you to spend an hour or so gathering frequencies of interest and about 5 minutes dumping them, en masse, onto your HT.
Plus on some of the radios you even get to give them 8-character names you can remember, lol.
There are some small, low power rigs that can be purchased or even built ( link (http://qrpme.com/?p=TUNAS) ) which when coupled with a few feet of wire slung up in a tree will let you dit dah around the world.

Tomahawk - I would love to run across a resource for field expedient antennas as your last post hinted at. I never considered that a live tree would conduct RF, but since reading your post I feel foolish not considering it. There are a lot of resources on ham related sites/forums for field expedient wire antennas in different configurations, most require a tuner and some time to get tuned, period.
I have a favorite, well-proven, end-fed wire to the concept mentioned - don't want to hijack Tomahawk's thread getting into that but will mention if desired.

As to field antenna handbooks, I STRONGLY suggest you acquire a copy of MCRP 622-D. This is the USMC Field Antenna Handbook. These are available on the internet as downloads, however if you can locate a true specimen it is worth some bucks to have that hardcopy that can get into a field-jacket pocket. The original was a manual done by DoD (with Zoomie engineering) and then, naturally, all the services had to make their own slightly different version. I say get the Marine version because the quality of the tables & illustrations in it are a quantum leap forward from some of the old sketches in the Army one that look like Bill Mauldin drew them.

I'm curious now about the capabilities of those military radios that y'all have performed magic with.They built muscles & character.
:rolleyes:

Tomahawk sir, if you do go to get your Tech license and don't remain at the same test session to get your General, that would deserve a beatin'. (A boatload of the stuff that's on the Tech is regurgitated on the General and you can sit & keep testing for the same fee until you blow one.) Good luck!
:cool:

sfshooter
07-11-2017, 22:27
I attended our county Fire Council meeting this evening and spoke with our Disaster and Emergency Services coordinator about this event. He said they felt that we were to far north of the prime viewing area that he didn't expect any real big issues.
We are just above the northern edge of the prime viewing area from the map I looked at.
Our fire season has kicked off and the heat wave is continuing so we are definitely getting busy with that as conditions continue to improve for wildfires (I'm on a local volunteer dept.).
Good luck down south with all googely-eyed people with no common sense!:D

PSM
07-11-2017, 23:08
For anyone going to view this event, don't try to photograph it, the internet will be filled with images for you. Doing so will just take away from actually experiencing it. For most it's a once in a lifetime event. A lot happens before, during , and after totality. DO make sound recordings especially if you have children, though you might be surprised at what you say yourself. ;)

Before and after, if you are near plants or trees, you will notice pinhole images of the partial eclipse on the ground under them. If none are around, spread your fingers to create the same effect. I don't expect any prominences this time (hope I'm wrong) but that may make the corona more prominent.

This will be a short one but pay some attention to your surroundings. The animals, especially birds, get confused during totality. In the video below someone mentions the bats coming out. Also, take a quick look around you at the horizon (the reason is in the video below).

Here's a video of a small group that was a few miles north of us during the 1991 Cabo Eclipse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XhpToLX6KQ

See why I suggested audio recording the event? :D

For eye protection during the partial phase, I use shade 13 (most use darker) welders lenses because I like the green color vs the blueish color mylar shields provides. Keep track of the time of totality. Your eyes will dilate some in the dark and you do not want to be looking at the the disk without protection when the sun reappears.

The last thing you will see before totality and the first thing after are Bailey's Beads caused by the mountains visible on the edge of the moon's surface.

ETA: Be sure to sacrifice a virgin before the sun reappears, just in case. ;)

Pat

Dusty
07-12-2017, 03:30
Call a rainmaker, Bro.

Hand
07-12-2017, 09:41
Before and after, if you are near plants or trees, you will notice pinhole images of the partial eclipse on the ground under them. If none are around, spread your fingers to create the same effect. I don't expect any prominences this time (hope I'm wrong) but that may make the corona more prominent.


My 4th grade science teacher had us all make a pinhole in a piece of paper, then lay a second piece of paper on the ground. We then stood with our backs to the sun and used the paper with the pinhole in it to focus the light and project the eclipse down onto the sheet on the ground. She showed an entire glass of mush brained kids how to watch an eclipse in complete safety.

Badger52
07-12-2017, 15:37
My 4th grade science teacher had us all make a pinhole in a piece of paper, then lay a second piece of paper on the ground. We then stood with our backs to the sun and used the paper with the pinhole in it to focus the light and project the eclipse down onto the sheet on the ground. She showed an entire glass of mush brained kids how to watch an eclipse in complete safety.No kidding, same here.

I can't wait for the lawsuit (due to eye damage on some Darwin candidate) to be filed against NOAA, NASA, The Russians (hell, why not?), Trump, the Sun, all Milky Way planets current & yet to be discovered, as well as the State of Idaho.

I like Dusty's idea; bring on the Shaman and the Mother of All SEAsian monsoons.

TOMAHAWK9521
07-12-2017, 21:59
Well, I linked up with the Teton Valley Ham Radio club and have been studying up for my license. I've finished the Tech book and am now reading up on the General. The club president wanted me to test for Tech yesterday but I said I would hold off another couple weeks so I can take both tests.

As for that club, they've been rolled into the comms plan by the Teton County Incident Mgr. As for myself, I'm in Bonneville County in the next valley over. The club was lining up volunteers to be available to cover down on the 3 fire houses and the SO, from the Wednesday prior to the Tuesday after, should cell coverage crap out. I informed them that I would probably not make it up there since my A/O has only 1 road going through it and whether it's 50K or 500K, it won't take long for the road to become congested, making travel a no go.

Now then, I have a question on back up power supply for my little abode. Last year's blackout across southern Idaho clued me into the fact that living in the mountains means needing to have back up power from time to time. That being said, while attending the Field Day exercise a couple weeks ago, a couple of the old hands had dual fuel inverters as opposed to generators. I liked that they had dual fuel capability, which would allow me to potentially run a line from my house propane tank to it should my portable bottles not be enough to cover an outage. Now, I understand the inverters can hold a charge in the battery while the generator only keeps the power going while it's running. Considering that I'm also going to require back up power for my "mad scientist lab" and not just comms, I'm trying to decide if I should get the generator or inverter. Pardon my ignorance on the subjects but I've never needed to own one of these before and I'd rather not spend the money on the wrong one for my purposes. Suggestions?

miclo18d
07-13-2017, 04:58
My 4th grade science teacher had us all make a pinhole in a piece of paper, then lay a second piece of paper on the ground. We then stood with our backs to the sun and used the paper with the pinhole in it to focus the light and project the eclipse down onto the sheet on the ground. She showed an entire glass of mush brained kids how to watch an eclipse in complete safety.

Same here, I live in Ft Leavenworth (1979ish?) as a kid and there was an eclipse and we did the same technique. I'm pretty sure I cheated and looked once it had obscured the sun. ;)

Badger52
07-13-2017, 05:50
I liked that they had dual fuel capability, which would allow me to potentially run a line from my house propane tank to it should my portable bottles not be enough to cover an outage. Now, I understand the inverters can hold a charge in the battery while the generator only keeps the power going while it's running.My limited understanding is/was that the battery is typically just used for the starting function, or are you talking about refreshing some type of battery bank? I'm curious about this as well & like the add'l propane capability. (Have plenty of portable O2 bottles for the Mrs. should the line voltage go out for a period, but keeping the regular concentrator going gives her more mobility along with the humidification.) Were you looking at something like one of the Champions or similar?

TOMAHAWK9521
07-13-2017, 07:01
No battery bank at this time. I'm primarily looking at the portable Champion models. The information on some of the higher end ones state they can run everything in the house. The only thing in the house that would need some assistance is the fridge. I'm more concerned with being able to run my shop equipment. No sense in having the fabrication/modification or repair capabilities that could really come in handy during an emergency if I don't have a back up power supply.

The Reaper
07-13-2017, 07:09
Most people plan to use the generator to power a battery bank. Otherwise, the generator has to run all of the time.

The inverter is designed to provide AC power, 240 or 120v from a battery, which is DC. Auto batteries are not designed to take that kind of cycling. Deep cycle batteries are.

Generators provide AC power, but the quality of the power may vary significantly, as it can with inverters. This is not a problem with most devices, but sensitive electronics may be damaged by the dirty power, or not be able to function properly.

For a radio room, a couple of deep cycle batteries may be enough, with an inverter and a small generator (perhaps supplemented by solar) to recharge the batteries when low. I have even seen a bicycle turning an automotive generator to charge batteries.

LP is a much better generator fuel than gasoline, if you have the option.

Just my .02, YMMV.

PSM
07-13-2017, 10:28
No battery bank at this time. I'm primarily looking at the portable Champion models. The information on some of the higher end ones state they can run everything in the house. The only thing in the house that would need some assistance is the fridge. I'm more concerned with being able to run my shop equipment. No sense in having the fabrication/modification or repair capabilities that could really come in handy during an emergency if I don't have a back up power supply.

We're off-grid solar but, before that was all on-line, we used a 3500W Champion to run the whole house before the A/C install. Now we have a 5500W Generac that can, and has, run the whole house including A/C. Our electrician put in a false PVC clean-out into the mud-room that we can open and run a cord from the service panel out to the gennie. The service panel has two isolated "main" lines, one for the solar system and one for the generator. Being off-grid we do not need a transfer switch, you would. One odd thing with the Generac, our dishwasher doesn't like it and will not run. It ran fine on the Champ.

Now we have an auto-start Kohler 8kW gennie for backup. It makes life much easier. And life is much easier when these things are in place before you need them. ;)

ETA: The Kohler failed after only 416 hours of occasional use! :mad: A carburetor bolt broke. I'm back to dragging the Generac around again.

Pat

TOMAHAWK9521
07-13-2017, 13:57
Much oblige on the input. The long-time ham operators were really leaning on the idea of me getting an inverter. I figured I would seek a second opinion from this group since many of you already have setups similar to one that I'm working on.

If I had kids, I'd be looking for a couple of G-76 generators to harness their energy for charging batteries on days of inclement weather. What better way to keep the lights working and build character? :D

Badger52
07-13-2017, 19:27
If I had kids, I'd be looking for a couple of G-76 generators to harness their energy for charging batteries on days of inclement weather. What better way to keep the lights working and build character? :DLOL. "Be all the amps you can be." :lifter

Much oblige on the input. The long-time ham operators were really leaning on the idea of me getting an inverter.
Edit to add, they have a point. Most of today's modern 100w base-stations rigs are quite inefficient on how they manage power consumption. It is absolutely NOT "turn down to 1/2 power and consume 1/2 the power." There is alot of overhead (memories, pretty bright lights, etc.) to running those things. Best I've seen in my testing is getting down to QRP level gets you to about 30-35% on the consumption if you turn off some unneeded junk. Just gets to a point of diminishing return. Dedicated modern QRP rigs are much more efficient in their design (Elecrafts can run on electronic fumes, ditto an FT-817 if you tweak a couple things.) Add-in a tube power amp and the same rule applies but in spades since you have to feed that transformer to make that big piece of glass warm the room up anyway, no matter how hard you make that tube work on the transmit end. The old TANSTAAFL thing.

Golf1echo
07-13-2017, 21:13
I saw a lot of generac systems fueled by a 250 gal LP tank going in to the former neighborhood, can be funny on a Saturday morning when they all come on to do a maintenance run triggered by timers but then they know their units would work when it was crunch time. This Yamaha might be a little small for you but it does have the inverter for the sensitive electronics. I got one because it can run a circular saw / etc... remotely, sips fuel, is fairly quiet / even more so with an enclosure, has a fuel petcock that drains fuel out of the carb so it doesn't stale and is rated more durable than the Honda. it's not capable of running the fridge but a good ice cooler is what I tend to use in power outages....it can power the furnace if it's gas. It can be run in parallel with another unit for 30A Power and comes with a DC charger....and you can carry it.

https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/generator/models/ef2000isv2

They are available for less at several places but keep an eye on delivery policies.

Hand
07-17-2017, 06:53
LOL. "Be all the amps you can be." :lifter

Haha! Too bad I already like my signature...


Edit to add, they have a point. Most of today's modern 100w base-stations rigs are quite inefficient on how they manage power consumption. It is absolutely NOT "turn down to 1/2 power and consume 1/2 the power." There is alot of overhead (memories, pretty bright lights, etc.) to running those things. Best I've seen in my testing is getting down to QRP level gets you to about 30-35% on the consumption if you turn off some unneeded junk. Just gets to a point of diminishing return. Dedicated modern QRP rigs are much more efficient in their design (Elecrafts can run on electronic fumes, ditto an FT-817 if you tweak a couple things.) Add-in a tube power amp and the same rule applies but in spades since you have to feed that transformer to make that big piece of glass warm the room up anyway, no matter how hard you make that tube work on the transmit end. The old TANSTAAFL thing.

There is a topic buried there that I have never seen expanded. Linear vs solid state from the perspective of power usage. Every ham I've ever spoken too recommends tube amps, every time. Many have battery backup solutions dedicated to their radio equipment. This leads to my question, are tube amps more or less efficient than linear amps? What type to the qrp crowd use?


Tomohawk, I'm glad you made it to field day. You don't get very many opportunities to see clubs set up a range of gear and use it out in the field like that. With your experience with military comms gear, I would love to hear your first impressions, compare and contrast etc...

Badger52
07-17-2017, 12:37
There is a topic buried there that I have never seen expanded. Linear vs solid state from the perspective of power usage. Every ham I've ever spoken too recommends tube amps, every time. Many have battery backup solutions dedicated to their radio equipment. This leads to my question, are tube amps more or less efficient than linear amps? What type to the qrp crowd use?Tube amps are wonderful; the audio is luxurious for those who can hear the difference. Important to define "efficiency." Electrically, typical tube amps are (internally) about 60-65% efficient in terms of translating input to output watts. Solid states are at somewhat below that (e.g., Elecraft's KPA500 is at about 50% efficiency). So in that sense, they are electrically a bit more efficient; I was speaking above in general terms, not just the electrical sense. The bigger tube amps do thrive better with a dedicated AC circuit and draw (from your wall) more than the typical solid-state job. But in a rural setting where you may not have a stiff AC line or, essentially, be 500m off the gravel road at the end of what amounts to a big extension cord it could be different. There have been lots of advances in solid-state RF amps where, for a long time, tube amps were the only game in town. Most replacement tubes now are made in China & one needs to get them from someone who has a QC presence with their manufacturer. That said, the old Ameritron amp I had made in '91 still had its original 3-500Z tube in it and was wonderful. The thing also took up more than a 2-radio footprint, and weighed more than my guitar amp, close to 50 lbs. You can also find well-cared for tube amps that will get you in the game for 1/2 what a current solid-state job will cost.

RE QRP I had an old Tokyo Hi-Power amp (no longer a going concern) with an FT-817 and it was fine, if a bit finicky on tuning up, 3-4w in --> 35-40w out. Nowadays not too much available I can see in the QRP amp category. Pretty much looks (to me) like most makers aren't playing. Elecraft would be the exception, where they have clearly made their little KX-series of radios intending them to be tossed in the ruck, and then at home you can connect to a KXPA-100 amp and run a regular base-station. That amp will work with other radios as well; 3-1/2 to 7w in --> 100w out. Spendy but if you don't want to own a multiple rigs & prefer to stay with one interface it could make alot of sense.

TOMAHAWK9521
07-19-2017, 00:37
Tomohawk, I'm glad you made it to field day. You don't get very many opportunities to see clubs set up a range of gear and use it out in the field like that. With your experience with military comms gear, I would love to hear your first impressions, compare and contrast etc...


The club I've affiliated with is fairly small with only a few key members able and willing to bring their equipment out to play. Although I was invited to get on the air and make contacts, I preferred to remain an observer.

Now, some of those radios! Great Moons of Neptune! I felt like a hog looking at wrist watch when I saw all those purty, itty-bitty little rigs. All the bells, whistles, lights and buttons made me afraid they'd blow up if I touched them! I recall many on this site discussing the capabilities of hooking ham radios to computers for CW, internet patches and such, but to see it up close for the first time was pretty amazing. It's fantastic that hams have taken communications to so many new levels but I kinda felt a little behind the times.

Edit: As an update, I just passed the Tech and General tests this evening so I should be getting my license and C/S issued in the next couple of weeks. My brain hurts. In the mean time, it would seem that I've got a lot to catching up to do in order to get proper modern comms shed up and running.

Badger52
07-19-2017, 04:16
Edit: As an update, I just passed the Tech and General tests this evening so I should be getting my license and C/S issued in the next couple of weeks. My brain hurts. In the mean time, it would seem that I've got a lot to catching up to do in order to get proper modern comms shed up and running.OUT-standing! Congratulations!
:lifter

Hand
07-19-2017, 07:08
The club I've affiliated with is fairly small with only a few key members able and willing to bring their equipment out to play. Although I was invited to get on the air and make contacts, I preferred to remain an observer.

Now, some of those radios! Great Moons of Neptune! I felt like a hog looking at wrist watch when I saw all those purty, itty-bitty little rigs. All the bells, whistles, lights and buttons made me afraid they'd blow up if I touched them! I recall many on this site discussing the capabilities of hooking ham radios to computers for CW, internet patches and such, but to see it up close for the first time was pretty amazing. It's fantastic that hams have taken communications to so many new levels but I kinda felt a little behind the times.

Edit: As an update, I just passed the Tech and General tests this evening so I should be getting my license and C/S issued in the next couple of weeks. My brain hurts. In the mean time, it would seem that I've got a lot to catching up to do in order to get proper modern comms shed up and running.

Thank you for your insight. Coming the other way, these modern rigs look very cool and high tech, but they also look like they need to be gently dusted twice a day to stay pretty. On the other hand, those green boxy military radios look like they could fall out of an airplane and once you brush the scuffs off maintain their original appearance.

Congradulations on passing those two tests! That general is definitely a handful. :lifter

Requiem
08-13-2017, 18:32
Put your zip code in the (yellow highlighted) box and see how much of the eclipse is visible in your area.

Here. (https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/7/25/16019892/solar-eclipse-2017-interactive-map)

S.

cbtengr
08-13-2017, 19:42
Put your zip code in the (yellow highlighted) box and see how much of the eclipse is visible in your area.

Here. (https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/7/25/16019892/solar-eclipse-2017-interactive-map)

S.

Thanks for the link!

TOMAHAWK9521
08-18-2017, 08:59
Well, so far, it's still pretty quiet here in my little stretch of the path of totality. The price of gas has definitely jumped up but the hordes of people that were projected have yet to materialize. Speaking to folks up in Teton Valley, camp sites are being established and entire sections of ground have been reserved for foreign tourist groups but, so far, no significant increases of visitors have been noticed. There is a lot of talk about caravans of campers coming up from Salt Lake City but official traffic news have yet to reflect that info.

Rumors have changed. The one about the lanes of I-15 being opened to only direction has been squashed. It isn't going to happen. However, another one popped up concerning requests for permits for performing animal/blood sacrifices during the event.

As for myself, I was asked to fall in on one of the local fire stations in Teton Valley to provide comms support should cell coverage fail but that was withdrawn since the FCC has yet to issue my license/call sign and I can't be on the air until that happens. If my license comes through before this weekend, I was told I would be called up. If not, I guess I'll be enjoying the event from my deck. From the accounts I've read about eclipses making nature poop its pants, the effect on the wildlife in my area should be rather interesting.

Sadly, I realized I missed a golden opportunity to make a buck, not to mention a controversial impact on the upcoming event. T-shirts, glasses, books and all kinds or merchandise are being sold all over the region. My morbid sense of humor hatched the idea of selling eye patches. With all the scary warnings of eyes being burned out like Nazi soldiers in "Raiders of The Lost Ark" I thought somebody should sell pirate-style eye patches with the words "I LOOKED AT THE ECLIPSE 2017" printed on the front. :D Sick, I know, but it sure beats shirts with "I went to the eclipse and all I got was this t-shirt".

Badger52
08-18-2017, 10:28
Rumors have changed. The one about the lanes of I-15 being opened to only direction has been squashed. It isn't going to happen. However, another one popped up concerning requests for permits for performing animal/blood sacrifices during the event.
The DNC is showing up?
...
If not, I guess I'll be enjoying the event from my deck."Far from from the madding crowd" isn't a bad place to be. :cool:
Still, the potential for trinkets is there. Maybe someone can sell things from the back of their pickup. "Zero-Zero Sweet Corn - Harvested in Darkness! - $20/dozen"

bblhead672
08-18-2017, 11:05
My son lives in central Illinois. He told me that some of the people there are acting like this is Y2K all over again. His company is paying all the employees additional money per hour to be on call and available for several days.
The locos, I mean locals, are saying there may be power surges, colossal traffic jams and other problems. He's laughing and enjoying the extra money.

Hysterics. You know, because total eclipses in other parts of the world has resulted in Armageddon type destruction.

The Reaper
08-18-2017, 12:24
Gas up, make a grocery run, test your generator, and charge up your batteries.

TR

Swoop
08-18-2017, 13:22
Don't forget the Class VI:lifter

TOMAHAWK9521
08-18-2017, 18:10
The DNC is showing up?
...
"Far from from the madding crowd" isn't a bad place to be. :cool:
Still, the potential for trinkets is there. Maybe someone can sell things from the back of their pickup. "Zero-Zero Sweet Corn - Harvested in Darkness! - $20/dozen"

I can't believe I didn't think of the eye patch gimmick sooner. Damn, that would have been funny.

When I was back east visiting the family, we attended an Irish festival in the suburbs of central Ohio. It was in an area maybe the size of a college football stadium so it wasn't all that big. On the second day, there were more people show up than previously recorded and the Verizon network crashed. I think this was the first time Verizon failed to set up a mobile tower. It's not like there were too many people for the festival to support. But with everyone texting and face-timing, the system couldn't handle the traffic. It made me think of what will likely happen out here. The forecasted crowd size for here is way beyond what I saw back east. The cell net will definitely go down. Maybe not for the whole time between now and say, Tuesday, but think it will definitely happen the day of.

Other than that, I'm all topped off. My dual fuel inverter showed up just the other day so I've got that here in case all heck breaks loose. To pass the time while I wait for Y2K 2.0 to pass by, I might just stroll over to the river and scramble out onto one of the sandbars and catch me some rainbow trout. I've got all the beef and chicken I can handle. Some fresh trout might be in order for the weekend.

TOMAHAWK9521
08-18-2017, 18:36
As for Class VI, I think I'll survive for at least the short term:

PSM
08-19-2017, 14:38
I'm at our staging area at Pole Mountain WY west of Cheyenne. There's no indication of "hordes" yet. :D The traffic through Denver to FTC SUCKED! But, the locals said that that's getting to be the norm. We may be joined by G1E if he can wade though the morass.

Pat

TOMAHAWK9521
08-19-2017, 15:56
I'm at our staging area at Pole Mountain WY west of Cheyenne. There's no indication of "hordes" yet. :D The traffic through Denver to FTC SUCKED! But, the locals said that that's getting to be the norm. We may be joined by G1E if he can wade though the morass.

Pat

That's why I moved away from the Colorado Front Range to Idaho.

Flagg
08-19-2017, 18:33
I'm currently visiting the Bay Area.

I've got a bit of free time and looking at my eclipse viewing options.

Rather than leg it way north, it looks like it should be pretty good in the Bay Area.

80% of the bang for only 2.0% of the travel buck(driving all the way up the coast to Oregon).

I checked out the Chabot Space Center & Observatory today.

Pretty rough ingress/egress traffic wise.

But they've got some pretty awesome tools for this eclipse

Popped into Berkeley to check out the enemy.

What a strange place.......the number of homeless people is off the charts.

The bookstores(2 that I went into) have a broad selection of books on Che Guevara.

All of the local businesses I checked out have key codes for their toilets due to the homeless problem.

Back here at Stanford/Palo Alto it's downright right wing reactionary by comparison.

Stopped by the world's largest user generated for profit intelligence gathering and information operations shop in the world, Facebook.

What a massive outfit, the construction of the new Apple HQ in the media has far overshadowed the massive ramp up in infrastructure Facebook is undergoing.

It looks like billions in HQ buildings being built in Menlo Park.

Pete
08-20-2017, 13:06
I-95 south in NC was pretty much bumper to bumper going south today.

Badger52
08-20-2017, 16:53
Photo ops should be good for some... bet the ISS gets some interesting shots without the traffic hassle.
:cool:

PSM
08-20-2017, 21:42
Photo ops should be good for some... bet the ISS gets some interesting shots without the traffic hassle.
:cool:

Doesn't quite work that way. The likelihood of them crossing the path during totality is miniscule and would be only a second or two. Besides, they can make their own total eclipse any time the sun is visible to them. A U-2 pilot probably could too with a little effort. In fact, this is the aircraft that can do what you suggested.

Pat

Badger52
08-21-2017, 04:12
Doesn't quite work that way. The likelihood of them crossing the path during totality is miniscule and would be only a second or two. Besides, they can make their own total eclipse any time the sun is visible to them. A U-2 pilot probably could too with a little effort. In fact, this is the aircraft that can do what you suggested.

PatUnderstood. I was thinking of them being able to photograph the big blue marble in shadow since their cycle time is about 90 min., give or take.

TOMAHAWK9521
08-21-2017, 09:10
So far, I haven't seen or heard of rioting mobs, human sacrifices or cannibalism taking place yet. Although, one or two of those might be interesting.

News radio indicates traffic is piling up at the Idaho Falls off ramps. My guess is that most of the traffic is trying to get into Teton Valley. I have yet to drive out to the road to see if my valley is having traffic problems so we'll see.

I've got my paper ISO 1232-x McJohnson//$# deathray-proof glasses, so I'm set.

I've got a minicam with 8mm DVDs so I'll be able to shoot 30 minutes of video during the event.

Film at 11:00.

Oldrotorhead
08-21-2017, 09:15
Tell any Liberal you see binoculars will make the eclipse an even they will never forget.:D

TOMAHAWK9521
08-21-2017, 12:13
Now it's on the waning side. I looked at my video feed and it was roughly 2 minutes of complete darkness. Still, it felt like it happened a lot faster than I thought. Lots of people in the valley hooting and cheering.

Unfortunately, I occupied most of the time taking pics and looking at the LCD screen. Something I said I wouldn't do. DOH! Hopefully, the camera got what I missed.

It was a toss up for me. Sit and just watch it happen for what will likely be the only time in my life or try and record it. I did a little of the first but more of the second.

echoes
08-21-2017, 14:46
Now it's on the waning side. I looked at my video feed and it was roughly 2 minutes of complete darkness. Still, it felt like it happened a lot faster than I thought. Lots of people in the valley hooting and cheering.

Unfortunately, I occupied most of the time taking pics and looking at the LCD screen. Something I said I wouldn't do. DOH! Hopefully, the camera got what I missed.

It was a toss up for me. Sit and just watch it happen for what will likely be the only time in my life or try and record it. I did a little of the first but more of the second.

Tomahawk Sir, Wowzir!!:lifter

Great photos!!! We had a nice dimming here in OK, and it was so great to share it with a friend of our family from Ethiopia. She had never seen one, and it was awesome to get to explain what an Eclipse was.:)

What an amazing day...


Holly

Pete
08-21-2017, 15:23
Stayed in Fayetteville and had two of the viewing boxes the family made.

Everybody said it looked like Pac Man.

The sun stayed bright in the sky but the light dimmed as if you had sunglasses on - but clear. Odd.

Divemaster
08-21-2017, 16:28
Held a couple pairs of sunglasses in front of the camera lens. This what we got south of JBLM.

Peregrino
08-21-2017, 19:53
In the zone of totality near Wiles Crossroads, SC.

Not a bad reward for listening to the wife nay-say the road trip for two days because - I quote: "the weather report says it's going to be cloudy"; "the news says traffic will be horrible"; and "the news says the crowds will be overwhelming". (All this from the same people who said Hillary would be our next President!)

Conditions were perfect; we were dead center in a hole in the scattered overcast that was at least 20 miles in diameter; traffic down was routine, we parked on the side of the road next to a farmers bean field with others around us but no one encroaching and totality went way too fast. Same choices as everyone else - take pictures or observe. We got some good scenery pictures on her phone of distant sunlit clouds while we were in total darkness. It was pretty cool when all the cars that were running air conditioners had their lights come on and all the lights on the visible transmission towers came on. That happened just before the stars became visible. Venus really "popped".

Then I got to listen to her all the way home talk about "how cool it was" and "something else I don't have to put on my bucket list". I should get extra points for only doing the "ye of little faith" thing two or three times to rub it in. We did run into traffic on the way home but local knowledge and good timing helped us reduce our exposure. All in all, a worthwhile event to spend a leave day on.

Badger52
08-21-2017, 21:39
In the zone of totality near Wiles Crossroads, SC.
Wow, neat. That last one looks like a football in the air in a spotlight.
"But Coach...!"

Some good pics by those here, thanks all for sharing. All I got to do was cut my grass.
:)

rsdengler
08-22-2017, 04:43
Awesome....here in Maryland it was about 78 percent, I went out with the guys from work with a welders hat and shield on. It was amazing...made for a great workday especially for a Monday:)

Golf1echo
08-22-2017, 22:22
A great adventure, thanks to PSM and crew! Just wanted to share some images for now. These were taken at the total eclipse. my phone camera is not the best but I will remember the images the rest of my life. I know the last one does not convey the diamond I saw nor do I find any images on the web that show the view...it was taken just before the diamond ring appeared and was not expected ( during the full eclipse so the fact that it is bright indicates some of what was going on), there were swirls of linear light that appeared to be a diamond not the white spot seen on the image.

The first four are nearly a 360 from were we stood.

The next evening was spent in The Medicine Bow where the Milky Way covered the entire sky above us, it was so bright it was difficult to pick out the individual constellations however I saw Orion rising in the East at about 4:00 Am...Fall is on it's way. My Thanks to PSM, his wife and guests for top notch hospitality!

PSM
08-22-2017, 22:47
A great adventure, thanks to PSM and crew! Just wanted to share some images for now. These were taken at the total eclipse. my phone camera is not the best but I will remember the images the rest of my life. I know the last one does not convey the diamond I saw nor do I find any images on the web that show the view...it was taken just before the diamond ring appeared and was not expected ( during the full eclipse so the fact that it is bright indicates some of what was going on), there were swirls of linear light that appeared to be a diamond not the white spot seen on the image.

The first four are nearly a 360 from were we stood.

The next evening was spent in the Medicine Bow where the Milky Way covered the entire sky above us, it was so bright it was difficult to pick out the individual constellations however I saw Orion rising in the East at about 4:00 Am...Fall is on it's way. My Thanks to PSM, his wife and guests for top notch hospitality!

Well, G1E left out "The Rest of the Story": Ingress, Egress, and Lessons Learned! I'm still on the road and, at the moment, in the Walmart parking lot in Lamar, CO. Two more parking lots are in our future before home. Let's just say that it was an eventful trip. ;) I'm tired.

BTW: Thanks to Tomahawk and Peregrino for taking photos thus allowing me to follow my own advice and spend the time burning it into my memory banks. :D

Pat