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P36
04-28-2017, 09:41
So I'm sitting around some professors at a business seminar and one comments that a predictor of success in the Q Course is whether the individual had wrestled in high school. I don't know where he obtained that statistic but am curious whether there is any correlation?

Pete
04-28-2017, 09:48
I doubt they tract that stat.

But that category could include just about any athlete.

Knew some studs who just didn't like being in the woods by themselves after dark.

JJ_BPK
04-28-2017, 10:55
The context of the conversation you overheard might help..

If I were to opine,, It would be a comment from someone that is trying to infer that SFQC candidates are knuckle draggers, with low IQ's and high testosterone levels. AKA: Andre the Giant types.

Trying to associate some sub-set of individuals to a particular sport, like wrestling is meaningless, and a bit pretentious..

Saying successful SFQC candidates are highly competitive, exceptionally fit, and are endowed with above average mental abilities is about as close as you need to get.

And that still leaves "some studs who just didn't like being in the woods by themselves after dark. "

:D

Trapper John
04-28-2017, 11:18
"Professors" you say? Business professors too? Opining about who makes it through the Q? :eek:

Intellectual idiots IMO! I'd question the source.

10:1 says they're scared of the dark. :rolleyes:

The Reaper
04-28-2017, 12:36
Validated predictors are APFT scores and ruck march times.

Never saw wrestling evaluated, except in the gig pit.

TR

Flagg
04-28-2017, 16:08
The only professor I can think of who has written anything of possible value is Angela Duckworth from Penn who wrote the recent book "GRIT".

Interesting results from a self-scored test by cadets that correlated with first year washout/success at West Point.

First year cadet hazing is a different beast entirely from an SFAS assessment/selection or analog.

But intrigueing nonetheless. Even more so when you're left scratching your head thinking about the self-scoring reference bias.

Anecdotally, and only based on my local cohort, I'm always looking for patterns amongst childhood, family life, and parenting received from those who passed the test.

There's so many books out there about SOF.

I'd love to see a book written by a compelling story teller and a performance psychologist focused on the parenting of high performing SOF soldiers.

I don't think we'd find THE answer, but I think we might find some interesting correlation/causation.

Team Sergeant
04-28-2017, 16:11
So I'm sitting around some professors at a business seminar and one comments that a predictor of success in the Q Course is whether the individual had wrestled in high school. I don't know where he obtained that statistic but am curious whether there is any correlation?

A better predictor might be whether the individual hunted, fished, hiked and camped. ;) Some of us are very comfortable in the woods, some, not so much.

(I'll never forget SFQC Phase One "Kill" class. "All of you that have never seen an animal killed move to the front of the bleachers....." I was backing up, knew what was coming and didn't want to be covered in goat blood.) :)

P36
04-28-2017, 17:48
It was out of left field and I didn't hear how they started the discussion but perked when I overheard that. How a long haired business professor even knew what SFQC was remains a mystery. I'm assuming he must have done some work in the community at some point. Or read a book.
If I have the opportunity I will see if I can find out his source for those stats.

Razor
04-28-2017, 20:09
The only professor I can think of who has written anything of possible value is Angela Duckworth from Penn who wrote the recent book "GRIT".

Interesting results from a self-scored test by cadets that correlated with first year washout/success at West Point.

First year cadet hazing is a different beast entirely from an SFAS assessment/selection or analog.


I'm going to have to pick that book up to see what she has to say. Unless she was interviewing folks that were cadets prior to the 1970s, she didn't interview anyone that had been truly 'hazed' as a Plebe. Even the moderate stressors I faced in the late 80's are magnitudes greater than what today's cadets face, as evidenced by resignation rates out of Cadet Basic Training that hovered around 100 a generation ago, but today run less than 15.

Joker
04-28-2017, 20:29
What's the professor's name?

The closest I came to wrasslin' was when I went with my uncle and cousins and saw some "professionals" in a brass-knuckle cage match. I was about 6 or so. :D

Flagg
04-29-2017, 03:07
I'm going to have to pick that book up to see what she has to say. Unless she was interviewing folks that were cadets prior to the 1970s, she didn't interview anyone that had been truly 'hazed' as a Plebe. Even the moderate stressors I faced in the late 80's are magnitudes greater than what today's cadets face, as evidenced by resignation rates out of Cadet Basic Training that hovered around 100 a generation ago, but today run less than 15.

Wow! Interesting stuff.

I know a few West Point grads. Across the age range of mid 20's to about 60. A genuinely solid group of friends and capable, hard working Americans. Not blowing smoke.

I wonder if there's records going back to inception of student acceptance #'s, # of cadet's showing up for day 1, # that make it thru their first year?

Long term trends would be quite interesting to see.

I'm visiting Navy Academy to meet a Professor running a Summer class. I'm keen to meet some of their senior year cadets.

IIRC Angela Duckworth mentioned a fairly high attrition rate between day 1 cadets and those not who finish the 1st year and/or go on to graduate.

I have to admit when I first read it and even now, the idea of a self scored test with just a few multiple choice questions having high correlation with successful outcome too good to be true. But it sounds credible/legit.

Although in having said that, that guy Greg Mortensen who wrote "Three Cups of Tea" and "Stones into Schools" turned a BS story into a "business model" until he got burned on 60 Minutes.

Trapper John
04-29-2017, 11:04
How a long haired business professor even knew what SFQC was remains a mystery. I'm assuming he must have done some work in the community at some point. Or read a book.

Well then, I stand corrected. :p

blue02hd
04-29-2017, 11:37
I wrestled growing up, and I do sometimes credit my later success in life to the independence, discipline, and drive that solo competition instills.

Eventually gravity, the big green tick, and AGE caught up with me.

Maybe I should have written a book,,,,,,:boohoo:boohoo:boohoo

P36
04-29-2017, 18:55
Aha, The professor was previously an Organizational Psychologist out of Raleigh. That makes a bit more sense now.

blue02hd
04-29-2017, 19:27
I wonder if running track makes you well suited for the Air Force? (Bruce Jenner comes to mind)

Joker
04-29-2017, 21:53
Aha, The professor was previously an Organizational Psychologist out of Raleigh. That makes a bit more sense now.

Uh, no it doesn't. Just because he was in the same state as the Q course... What's his name?

1stindoor
05-04-2017, 06:25
A better predictor might be whether the individual hunted, fished, hiked and camped. ;)

Interesting thread, but I think I would agree more with TS on this one. Being comfortable out in the woods is a good predictor. I think the team sport theory is also valid as you learn that it's not always about you...it's about your contribution and how your lack of effort can cause failure.

Trapper John
05-04-2017, 07:08
Uh, no it doesn't. Just because he was in the same state as the Q course... What's his name?

But, but he read a book! :D

thinker752
05-09-2017, 02:31
Ill say No. Yep thats my answer no it won't help.

tom kelly
05-09-2017, 22:10
Prediction of anything is very difficult, especially if it involves events that will occur in the future. Quote is attributed to various people. eg Niels Bohr, Arthur Ellis and others. Tom Kelly. It is no longer possible to make predictions without reference to the observer or the means of observation.

Dive08
05-14-2017, 17:27
The only professor I can think of who has written anything of possible value is Angela Duckworth from Penn who wrote the recent book "GRIT"。

+1 on that. Fantastic book.

As for the original question of this thread - ridiculous assertion. Move along.

UWOA
05-15-2017, 12:46
I was a wrestler ... but what TS said ....

LOL!

.

WarriorDiplomat
08-16-2017, 20:41
So I'm sitting around some professors at a business seminar and one comments that a predictor of success in the Q Course is whether the individual had wrestled in high school. I don't know where he obtained that statistic but am curious whether there is any correlation?

Not so sure about your professor he sounds like he has a fetish with wrestlers and perhaps watched vision quest too many times.....

I agree with others athletic background seems to help through the physical stuff but whats between the ears is just as important.....there are even football players, boxers, MMA, tennis players, baseball, swimmers, judoka, karate, ping pong players in SF but there are also gear heads, farmers, rodeo riders, chess players, video gamers, bookworms, artist, writers, techies and MBA's, MD's, etc...amongst the fellas

miclo18d
08-17-2017, 05:10
Not so sure about your professor he sounds like he has a fetish with wrestlers and perhaps watched vision quest too many times.....

I agree with others athletic background seems to help through the physical stuff but whats between the ears is just as important.....there are even football players, boxers, MMA, tennis players, baseball, swimmers, judoka, karate, ping pong players in SF but there are also gear heads, farmers, rodeo riders, chess players, video gamers, bookworms, artist, writers, techies and MBA's, MD's, etc...amongst the fellas

To add:
AAA Baseball prayers
Junior PGA players
FBI Agents
College Professors
Construction Workers
Police Officers

Team Sergeant
08-17-2017, 11:22
Not so sure about your professor he sounds like he has a fetish with wrestlers and perhaps watched vision quest too many times.....



I'm damn glad I was not drinking coffee when I read that........;)

Astronomy
08-17-2017, 21:11
Flagg: I'd love to see a book written by a compelling story teller and a performance psychologist focused on the parenting of high performing SOF soldiers.

This is one I'd recommend as it covers just that sort of analysis:

True Americanism: Green Berets and War Resisters : A Study of Commitment - by David M. Mantell, published 1974

https://www.amazon.com/True-Americanism-Resisters-Commitment-psychology/dp/0807724297

Author interviewed Vietnam era SF combat vets and draft resistors who fled to Canada. Trying to figure out what made two opposite ends of the commitment spectrum "tick". One group being triple-volunteers for combat and the other group being "equally" committed to their flavor of moral/political beliefs. The book attempts to identify why polar opposites (in terms of action) were each willing to commit knowingly to difficulty. The interviews analyze a vast spectrum of formative experiences and personality traits. Alpha vs Beta Male, adrenaline junkie behavior, promiscuity, early sexual experience, competitive drive, IQ, socio-economic roots, education, youthful criminal behavior, parenting, personality types, religion, family values, etc.

As I recall, the author ultimately found the SF types more fascinating (less stereotypical and more complicated) than the uber-pacifists. I seem to recall that this was his psychology doctoral thesis grown into a published book. In any event, he included some alcohol fueled SF war stories that made for interesting reading.

In the words of one reviewer: "This book asks a simple question with rather large implications : does family environment correlate to ideological stance? Dr. Mantell examines the two vanguards of youth reaction to Viet Nam : war resisters active, vocal, and visible in the anti-war movement, and green berets - soldiers essentially volunteering for combat duty. Through rigorous examination of the various family dynamics and history of his subjects, he is able to show very specific commonalities within each group, and huge differences between them."

Much of the SF interviewing conducted at 1-10 Bad Tölz back in the early 70's. The book was common in the Stars & Stripes Bookstores shelves up until the 1980's. I had a copy, but it got passed around team rooms and lost.

Well worth reading.

x SF med
08-18-2017, 11:29
Prediction of anything is very difficult, especially if it involves events that will occur in the future. Quote is attributed to various people. eg Niels Bohr, Arthur Ellis and others. Tom Kelly. It is no longer possible to make predictions without reference to the observer or the means of observation.

That's it Tom... bring Heisenberg into the discussion, you know we're all cretinous, knuckledragging, uneducated imbeciles who have no clue about the Uncertainty Principle.

Why are 'professors' so afraid to say they don't know what they don't know and can't understand why some make it through the Q and others don't?

Team Sergeant
08-18-2017, 14:37
Special Forces Questions

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PRB
08-18-2017, 18:53
Only if you wrestle yourself...and win....then yes.

Team Sergeant
08-18-2017, 21:25
The next non-SF type that posts in here will get banned.

















Special Forces Questions

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a forum where civilians can "ask" the Special Forces soldiers past and present "Special Forces" related questions.

Those questions are then answered by Special Forces soldiers, period.

Questions asked by the general public should NOT be answered by the "general" public.

If you do not have the title of "Quiet Professional" you may ask a question, but leave the "answers" to the QP's.