Perpetual Crisis

[Ret10Echo]

Kongress creates perpetual crisis state in order to leverage greater political capital, which simply exacerbates budget and policy issues that really matter.


Thank you Gen. Paul Selva, Vice Chairman of Joint Chiefs

“If it makes you feel better, we are all making history. We’ve had the longest period in American history where Congress has been unable to deliver a budget on schedule. We’ve had the longest period in American history where we have not complied with constitutional budget order and we have the first administration in the history of the United States that has transitioned under a continuing resolution.” Selva said during an April 13 Air Force Association breakfast in Arlington, Virginia. “Congratulations. All of your names will be in a history book somewhere. They should be in a history book as the American citizens who lost faith in the ability of Congress to do its job.”

Here (http://federalnewsradio.com/defense-news/2017/04/vice-chairman-joint-chiefs-selva-tells-congress-off-cr-issues/)from Federal News Radio

[Peregrino]

Kongress creates perpetual crisis state in order to leverage greater political capital, which simply exasperates budget and policy issues that really matter.


Thank you Gen. Paul Selva, Vice Chairman of Joint Chiefs



Here (http://federalnewsradio.com/defense-news/2017/04/vice-chairman-joint-chiefs-selva-tells-congress-off-cr-issues/)from Federal News Radio

Exasperates or exacerbates? (Hint: I'm exasperated because those a**holes are exacerbating the entrenched budget and policy problems left over from the previous administration.)

[Ret10Echo]

Exasperates or exacerbates? (Hint: I'm exasperated because those a**holes are exacerbating the entrenched budget and policy problems left over from the previous administration.)

Ha! Thanks....

[Trapper John]

Kongress creates perpetual crisis state in order to leverage greater political capital, which simply exacerbates budget and policy issues that really matter.


Thank you Gen. Paul Selva, Vice Chairman of Joint Chiefs



Here (http://federalnewsradio.com/defense-news/2017/04/vice-chairman-joint-chiefs-selva-tells-congress-off-cr-issues/)from Federal News Radio

:lifter

A good case for term limits IMO!

[Ret10Echo]

Well, here we are nearly a year on and the Federal Government is failing to execute one of the few things they are supposed to do...

4 budgets in 40 years.... (http://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/rngs/USA-FISCAL-TEMPORARY/010060E00Y8/FISCAL.jpg)

So who is at fault?


Article 1 Section 7 of the United States Constitution states: “All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.”

Article 1 Section 9 clause 7 says: “No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.”

[CDRODA396]

Both parties are more interested in their own power than doing their job. They don't give a rats ass about the public.

This sums it all up, period. Even Lyndsey Graham said today, words almost a quote, we could solve it in 10 minutes if we wanted to. No one in DC gives a shit enough to want to.

[lindy]

This sums it all up, period. Even Lyndsey Graham said today, words almost a quote, we could solve it in 10 minutes if we wanted to. No one in DC gives a shit enough to want to.

Exactly!

The Senate majority leader should change the rules to simple majority and ram legislation down Democrats throats while they can...because if the Dems take the chamber, that is precisely what they will do.

[Ret10Echo]

Out of the house and over to senate...


The GOP controls the Senate 51-49 and will need a substantial number of Democratic votes to reach 60 — the number needed to end Democratic delaying tactics. Republicans were all but daring Democrats to scuttle the bill and force a shutdown because of immigration, which they said would hurt Democratic senators seeking re-election in 10 states that Trump carried in 2016.



Funny (funny - sad, not funny-haha) that dims motivation is for non-citizens (but then again they consider that their voter-base).

[sfshooter]

As Mark Levin said and I paraphrase: they want to shut down the government of their own 30+ million people for 800k foreigners.

[Ret10Echo]

As Mark Levin said and I paraphrase: they want to shut down the government of their own 30+ million people for 800k foreigners.

Because this is about reelection, not about the American people.

True stripes are shown here.

So many will miss that point.

[rsdengler]

It's always about reelection with these ass clowns....they care more about themselves, their power, their perks, and their misguided agendas then the American people. I feel like a Serf.......:p

[Box]

The 'Iron Triangle' is alive and well in American politics. The problem is, too many government officials have perverted the concept for self-enrichment.

Liberals and of course those that choose to go through life with blinders on, scoff at any such suggestion that we, as a nation, operate within the confines of some sort of shadow government.

guffaw - harrumph - harrumph

Charles Baudelaire once said, “La plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu'il n'existe pas." - many folks would recognize the Keyser Söze version of the quote, 'The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.' Our government officials cant allow anyone to think that there is some kind of "power behind the throne" because it would ruin their scam - Folks become multi-millionaires as public servants. How it is possible for so many of these hacks manage such a lavish lifestyle on a salary of 174,000 dollars a year amazes me - unless you consider the possibility that they are 'owned' by their constituents.
Nah - that could never happen in aMErica

Think about this - anytime you think the Clintons are powerful , you should ask yourself, "who made the Cintons so rich?"
...THAT is who has the real power - whoever is bankrolling these crooked fucks.


-Special interest groups enrich our Politicians
-Congress passes budget increases
-Budget increases enrich the special interest groups

For example - AARP lobbies the House and Senate subcommittees on aging; these committees tinker around with the failing Social Security Administration; the SSA Bureaucrats prosecute policies and procedures that continue to enrich the AARP.
..old people still get fucked
...tax payers still get fucked
...young people will eventually get fucked
...social security is still fucked

Susan Collins and Bob Casey give LESS than two fucks about social security - they are entitled to FERS after five years of service (convenient that a senate term is six years) - tax payers and old people don't know the fucking difference because most of them only get their news from Sean Hannity and George Stephanopoulos. AARP is happy because they enjoy collecting membership payments from folks that are convinced that the AARP is looking out for them.
AARP is to old people what gangster protection was to small businesses in the 1930's. Meanwhile, we have politicians worth tens of millions of dollars - all on a salary of 170 grand per year.
How?

Some of them made their money by building their wealth and then getting into politics - but most of them got into politics in order to build their wealth. Any one of us would go to jail for using the same investment strategies that politicians are allowed to enrich themselves with.

Getting things done is a HORRIBLE way of getting filthy rich. Committee membership and three martini lunches is where the money is at.


...just my opinion - I could be wrong

[rsdengler]

Folks become multi-millionaires as public servants. How it is possible for so many of these hacks manage such a lavish lifestyle on a salary of 174,000 dollars a year amazes me - unless you consider the possibility that they are 'owned' by their constituents.

Think about this - anytime you think the Clintons are powerful , you should ask yourself, "who made the Cintons so rich?"
...THAT is who has the real power - whoever is bankrolling these crooked fucks.


-Special interest groups enrich our Politicians
-Congress passes budget increases
-Budget increases enrich the special interest groups


Some of them made their money by building their wealth and then getting into politics - but most of them got into politics in order to build their wealth. Any one of us would go to jail for using the same investment strategies that politicians are allowed to enrich themselves with.

...just my opinion - I could be wrong


LOL...Nope, you are not wrong (at least I don't think you are) ....Just call those hacks "Political Whores"..... because we are the ones that really get "Smfucked" in the end while they sip their cocktails with their Pimps; Special Interest Groups...:D Typical Washington BS, suck us dry while you enjoy your nice nest egg....Bastards...Ha...:p

[cbtengr]

Because this is about reelection, not about the American people.

True stripes are shown here.

So many will miss that point.

If there is a "shutdown" then the dems will own it. This is not their finest moment and with Trump at the helm I am certain that plenty of noise will be made and that the finger will be pointed at them. They underestimate Trumps following. It just boggles my mind that their loyalties lie more with people who entered this country illegally than with the honest hard working Americans who sign their paycheck.

[Badger52]

Hey, you 535 meatsticks, yeah you! Your rucksa... er, your Mickey Mouse lunch boxes are in the hall. The Bluebird will be by to shuttle you to the airport. Any questions? Why?

1. Repeated failure to perform a critical core function for which you were hired.
2. BFYTW.

[Box]

If there is a "shutdown" then the dems will own it.

I wish that was true on a national scale - the problem is, politicians like Elijah Cummings, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, and even republicans like Jeff Flake,
Susan Collins, and John McCain wont have any problem blaming such a shutdown on the President, instead of their own partisan failures.

Then of course, there is the legion of political shills on the news-ertainment circuit like George Snuffalupagus, Joe Scarborough, Joy Behar, Whoopsie Goldberg, Keith Olberman, Din Lemon, Christiane Amanpour - dear lord THAT list could go on forever...
...republicans wil be stuck holding the blame because the republican party is too stupid to outmaneuver their democratic counterparts and too cowardly to call them out in the public arena.


This is President Trumps fault because...
...well, just because

[HardRoad]

:lifter

A good case for term limits IMO!


Unless you also mandate that congressional staff can't work for consecutive congressmen, you make them even more powerful, since they become the only ones that know how things work on the hill, and they're far worse than the congressmen are.

To my mind, what we really need term limits for is the civil service. Maybe a max of five years working for the government, and then you have to go.

[ddoering]

Put the entire Legislative Branch in Gitmo and make them all plead their case that they deserve to live. At the same time dig into their finances (including extended family) and confiscate everything outside of their pay grade.

[Box]

The sad truth is that America is collectively getting the government she deserves. I always said that term limits begin at the ballot box - but as we all see - the ballot box is just for show.

Hell, there are plenty of people in VT that love Patrick Leahy - but if you were suggesting term limits for folks like Orrin Hatch or Chuck Grassley, those same voters be amenable to term limits. Conservatives that would like to see Ted Cruz have a long career probably wonder why the voters in San Fransisco keep putting Pelosi back in office.

Dumbed down - people are stupid. Being a good citizen requires a little effort and research and quite frankly most people seem to prefer their news served up with an appropriate hashtag. Its hard to tell where we really jumped the shark because each party has been pointing fingers at the other side for so long - nobody remembers which party "fired the first shot"

Hell, the Hatfields and McCoys kept better records than our politicians do.

[miclo18d]

The sad truth is that America is collectively getting the government she deserves. I always said that term limits begin at the ballot box - but as we all see - the ballot box is just for show.

Hell, there are plenty of people in VT that love Patrick Leahy - but if you were suggesting term limits for folks like Orrin Hatch or Chuck Grassley, those same voters be amenable to term limits. Conservatives that would like to see Ted Cruz have a long career probably wonder why the voters in San Fransisco keep putting Pelosi back in office.

Dumbed down - people are stupid. Being a good citizen requires a little effort and research and quite frankly most people seem to prefer their news served up with an appropriate hashtag. Its hard to tell where we really jumped the shark because each party has been pointing fingers at the other side for so long - nobody remembers which party "fired the first shot"

Hell, the Hatfields and McCoys kept better records than our politicians do.

Very good points. My dad always said, “Everyone hates politicians, except their own!” Similar to, “Everyone hates lawyers, until you need one.”

I have always believed in strict Constitutionalism with regards to term limits and the fact that we have a “revolution” every 2 years, but I’m afraid politicians have worked the system for SO long that they’ve found all the loop holes to feed themselves while telling us what we want to hear and, at the same time, getting NOTHING accomplished. I have changed to a term limits guy in the last few years.

Something I heard recently, “A person is smart, but people are dumb.” (Agent K, MIB was the only quote I could find for it). Basically, we are ruled by the Lowest Common Denominators in our society. In modern speak, Low IQ Voters.

[lindy]

Seems the Democrats are believing their own press/polling that everyone hates Trump (2016 all over again) but I don’t see how vulnerable Democrats in the flyover states can dodge blame on this one.

Hope this drama and the release of FISA memo (assuming it happens), turns the Senate into a filibuster proof majority in 2018.

Last night McConnell asked for unanimous consent from the Senate to let Republicans pass a funding bill with 50 votes instead of the 60 that the filibuster requires. It’s not at all certain that he has even 50 votes right now, but he was willing to take full responsibility for the bill’s passage via his caucus alone. If he found the votes he needed, the government would stay open without any Democratic assent to the DREAM-less bill. Nope, said Schumer. Won’t do it. He objected to the motion for unanimous consent. McConnell still needs 60, all but ensuring a shutdown.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/26107/whos-blame-government-shutdown-democrats-heres-why-ben-shapiro

[Pete]

17th Amendment

Made Senators beholding to big donors instead of the state.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Last nights voting by certain RINOs in the Senate should help anyone with amnesia come November.

Also, I think all of this will backfire badly for the Democrats come election time.

Americans have shown recently that compassion has limits and a real job trumps feel good legislation. If the economy keeps growing this year like it has been, 2018 is going to be a boon for Republicans in the House and Senate.

The MSM’s constant barrage this past year will slowly have to recede and reverse direction or be irrelevant in a time where more and more people get their news from sources that can be verified in real-time.

[Box]

So, let's take a look at which voting senators decided that shutting down the government to protest the treatment of illegal aliens 'trumps' the sworn duty of serving American citizens.........


Arizona
Sen. Jeff Flake, Republican: NO
Sen. John McCain, Republican: Did not vote

California
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, Democrat: NO
Sen. Kamala Harris, Democrat: NO

Colorado
Sen. Michael Bennet, Democrat: NO

Connecticut
Sen. Richard Blumenthal, Democrat: NO
Sen. Christopher Murphy, Democrat: NO

Delaware
Sen. Thomas Carper, Democrat: NO
Sen. Chris Coons, Democrat: NO

Florida
Sen. Bill Nelson, Democrat: NO

Hawaii
Sen. Mazie Hirono, Democrat: NO
Sen. Brian Schatz, Democrat: NO

Illinois
Sen. Tammy Duckworth, Democrat: NO
Sen. Dick Durbin, Democrat: NO

Kentucky
Sen. Mitch McConnell, Republican: NO
Sen. Rand Paul, Republican: NO

Massachusetts
Sen. Edward Markey, Democrat: NO
Sen Elizabeth Warren, Democrat: NO

Maryland
Sen. Ben Cardin, Democrat: NO
Sen. Chris Van Hollen, Democrat: NO

Maine
Sen. Angus King, Independent: NO

Michigan
Sen. Gary Peters, Democrat: NO
Sen. Debby Stabenow, Democrat: NO

Minnesota
Sen. Amy Klobuchar, Democrat: NO
Sen. Tina Smith, Democrat: NO

Montana
Sen. Jon Tester, Democrat: NO

New Hampshire
Sen. Maggie Hassan, Democrat: NO
Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, Democrat: NO

New Jersey
Sen. Cory Booker, Democrat: NO
Sen. Robert Menendez, Democrat: NO

New Mexico
Sen. Martin Heinrich, Democrat: NO
Sen. Tom Udall, Democrat: NO

Nevada
Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto, Democrat: NO

New York
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, Democrat: NO
Sen. Chuck Schumer, Democrat: NO

Ohio
Sen. Sherrod Brown, Democrat: NO

Oregon
Sen. Jeff Merkley, Democrat: NO
Sen. Ron Wyden, Democrat: NO

Pennsylvania
Sen. Bob Casey, Democrat: NO

Rhode Island
Sen. Jack Reed, Democrat: NO
Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, Democrat: NO

South Carolina
Sen. Lindsey Graham, Republican NO

Utah
Sen. Mike Lee, Republican: NO

Virginia
Sen. Tim Kaine, Democrat: NO
Sen. Mark Warner, Democrat: NO

Vermont
Sen. Patrick Leahy, Democrat: NO
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Independent: NO

Washington
Sen. Maria Cantwell, Democrat: NO
Sen. Patty Murray, Democrat: NO

Wisconsin
Sen. Tammy Baldwin, Democrat: NO



Good people of conscience communicating their opinion that consideration of illegal aliens is more important than funding the US government.

[Trapper John]

Unless you also mandate that congressional staff can't work for consecutive congressmen, you make them even more powerful, since they become the only ones that know how things work on the hill, and they're far worse than the congressmen are.

To my mind, what we really need term limits for is the civil service. Maybe a max of five years working for the government, and then you have to go.

A very, very good point Brother! :lifter

And Pete, repeal of the 17th A is priority #1 IMO!

[PSM]

17th Amendment

Made Senators beholding to big donors instead of the state.

Yep. Here in AZ, McCain would have been short-lived and you'd never have heard of Flake.

[Badger52]

I counted 6 republicans highlighted in yellow. Would that be enough to pass the budget? Yes I picked yellow for a reason. I would highlight the others in red if it were easier to read.Looks similar to the list of suspect "establishment Republicans" that Fusion's Simpson thought was behind the initial research commissioned by the Free Beacon.

Yeah, forget my ticket outta town offer; how many C17's would it take to move 'em to Gitmo... or Venezuela?

[miclo18d]

No need to worry about the shut down!

Afghan leaders assure US: ‘Our government has been shut down for 16 years and we’re fine’
by Paul Sharpe

KABUL — A number of Afghanistan’s politicians, warlords, drug smugglers, and Thunder Dome administrators have signed an open letter assuring US Congressional leaders that everything will be just fine if the American government is forced to shut down, sources confirmed today.

“Our government has been shut down for over 16 years and we’ve been doing just fine,” wrote an eclectic mix of Afghan high society, which included a part-time member of Parliament and full-time member of the Taliban, a successful bombmaker, and a Korengal Valley timber smuggling entrepreneur.

“We want to assure you, our friends in America, government shut downs are not the end of the world,” the letter continues. “As your great emir Ronald Reagan once said, ‘the government that governs best is the one which governs least,’ and we have taken this to heart for nearly two decades.”

The letter was published hours before a potential U.S. government shut down, which would happen at midnight on Friday if Congress is unable to pass a budget bill. As the open letter makes clear, Afghanistan hasn’t had a budget, basic services, or an effective military since the U.S.-led invasion in 2001.

“Many in the US say the government shouldn’t have to handle simple problems like trash pick up, minor policing, and child care,” said Habib al-Bubari, a local farmer who runs a side-business supplying batteries, wiring, and collectible marbles to Helmand Province’s booming explosives business. “We couldn’t agree more!”

And Kabul’s lack of governance hasn’t stopped others from flourishing in the country. Some Afghans, for example, have set up community checkpoints on roads where fellow citizens pay them money and give them all their belongings in exchange for the service of not being raped and murdered.

“A government shut down isn’t such a bad thing,” said Afghan President/Kabul Mayor Ashraf Ghani. “But I do hope that Congress at least continues to fund Afghanistan’s flourishing democratic success story.”

BlondesOverBaghdad contributed reporting.

[Badger52]

No need to worry about the shut down!LMFAO, FTW!
:lifter

[Ret10Echo]

To my mind, what we really need term limits for is the civil service. Maybe a max of five years working for the government, and then you have to go.

So Border Patrol agents would only serve 5 years? Likewise other Federal LE? Federal Firefighters...5 years and your gone?

Civilian instructors in the schoolhouses across the DOD?

What do you believe to be the composition of the incompetent "civil servants"? (emphasis added)

[bblhead672]

So Border Patrol agents would only serve 5 years? Likewise other Federal LE? Federal Firefighters...5 years and your gone?

Civilian instructors in the schoolhouses across the DOD?

What do you believe to be the composition of the incompetent "civil servants"? (emphasis added)

There needs to be a method to determine when a "civil servant" quits serving the American taxpayer and starts "self serving" or "agenda serving."

I have no idea what that would look like. Its amazing to me the number of federal employees who are furloughed yet "essential" government services continue to function. Always thought that indicated how many extra people there are on the federal payroll.

[Badger52]

There needs to be a method to determine when a "civil servant" quits serving the American taxpayer and starts "self serving" or "agenda serving."

I have no idea what that would look like. Its amazing to me the number of federal employees who are furloughed yet "essential" government services continue to function. Always thought that indicated how many extra people there are on the federal payroll.As TS indicated in the marksmanship/training thread, the rank & file don't get to have an "agenda." Agendas are typically managed by executive branch appointees, ultimately not even GS/GM-15's etc. These are the people sitting in positions with titles like "Assistant Deputy Under Secretary for Superfluous Affairs." The problem is often that these don't get purged all the way down when a new cabinet secretary comes in. They remain, like ticks, burrowed deep. If I were new secretary for a day & you were one of those ticks, the first thing you'd get from my office would be all previous appointees have their letter of resignation on my desk by COB Monday. I'll research & let you know if I accept.

Much of the rank & file (within DA anyway), still subject to furlough, are that support "tail" often spoke of. It is very often tough at a base level to decide who's essential & who's not, beyond the obvious life/safety categories. NG/AR unit shows up to do a week at their base, training planned out, including lots of live-fire drills/range-time. Is that guy/gal at the Ammo Supply Point who's going to issue their ammo load essential or not? How about the range control guys who deconflict range activity? Should the unit just say, "screw it, we're going to do a week of diversity training instead and bugout for beer & pizza, road march back home early Thursday morning" ?

[Box]

Civil Service employees are non-elected, public sector employees of the federal government. I am not sure how civil service employees can really be "self serving" - they do not set policy - they simply implement policy legislated by politicians. Running off civil servants after five years because of morally corrupt career politicians doesn't seem like it would have an overall positive impact on the USA.
If you think the troops are inundated with paper work now, start running off the General Schedule employees after five years and watch how fast the systems grinds to a crawl.

-You say you want more slots to a specialty school? Too bad - the new ATRRS guy doesn't understand the system well enough to get you into the next class and the last guy just hit 61 months.
-Institutional knowledge would be a thing of the past - consider what 18C MOS training might be like if SWC would have been forced to release Ernie Tabata way back in 1989.

General Schedule employees don't really have much power on a national scale - they can certainly serve as speed bumps to progress in some cases, but they hardly get to implement any type of policy without tons of oversight.

Senior Executive Service employees may deserve some scrutiny as career bureaucrats since they are operating at the same level as General Officers, but they also have cabinet level bosses that give them their marching orders. (It doesn't help that as many as 10% of the SES could be made up of political appointees.)

A non-essential employee might be the one that is staffing the paper work for a detailed off post training event that is set to occur in April - but if that paper work don't make its way through the system before the suspense date because the GS employee was furloughed - your training isn't going to happen on time.

The fact that "essential" programs continue to function during a furlough is smoke and mirrors cultivated by politicians that use the event as political leverage.

The truth is, for every citizen that thinks the civil service employees are concubines for the political class, there is a politician that hates the civil service for their perceived disloyalty. The poor old GS guy is stuck in the middle, doing the best they can despite being reviled as the toad in the road.

As an instructor at the MFF, I realized that we would be in a huge hurt if civil servants were only glorified part time employees. Rigging and Life Support maintenance would be a fucking disaster if we had to hire a new SME every few years. Working as a Staff NCO at USASOC, I came to the realization that most of the real paperwork gets done by GS workers because a green-suiter rarely does it right the first time.

It isn't the civil servants shutting down government, it is PETTY partisan politics.
Meanwhile these motherfuckers collect all of their pay and allowances on time, and spend their taxpayer funded three-martini-lunches planning the next golf trip.

Lets just make sure we are hating on the right people.



...just my two cents, I could be wrong

[cbtengr]

Civil Service employees are non-elected, public sector employees of the federal government. I am not sure how civil service employees can really be "self serving" - they do not set policy - they simply implement policy legislated by politicians. ........................

BINGO!! They do not make policy but they have been known to benefit from some overly generous policy, such as pension funds that are under funded. When my friends who are state employees bitch about the rollback of some of their incredibly generous tax payer funded benefits I ask them if they are not tax payers also? It is easy to be generous with someone else's money, like these dipshits that call for mandatory minimum pay raises, it is not coming out of their pockets.

[Ret10Echo]

There needs to be a method to determine when a "civil servant" quits serving the American taxpayer and starts "self serving" or "agenda serving."

I have no idea what that would look like. Its amazing to me the number of federal employees who are furloughed yet "essential" government services continue to function. Always thought that indicated how many extra people there are on the federal payroll.

Some good examples provided previously about the very challenge...

I think the simplest example of how the essential services continue would be the equivalent of your team medic being unavailable for a deployment.. BUT your Team Sergeant was a medic but really hadn't done the work for a while. Risk determines that the deployment can still go with him serving in that role, but it's not a permanent fix... It'll just get you by. Does that mean your team is operating at optimum capacity? Probably not.

So in the Fed you end up with senior folks or political appointees filling in for the specialists to keep the wheels on the car for a short term. Most of this are those administrative and support-level staff tasks that tend to just "happen" in the background. Pay, travel voucher processing, personnel actions and all the associated stuff that keeps the bureaucracy running.

As to the thinning of the herd... That's a cultural change that would have to take place and given trend towards extremes of administration approach, it's hard to work through.

For self-serving. I tend to disagree with others. There are in fact groups of civil servants that lose their azimuth on what they are there for. The "service" becomes less about what the customer (the American public) wants or needs and instead becomes what they personally determine to be the purpose of what they are doing or becomes an effort to simply justify the existence of their office. This is reflected in the crazy that comes out of agencies such as the EPA where mission-creep is SOP. The MORE you do the MORE money you can ask for. (sound familiar right?).

Unions in civil service is another area that continues to baffle me, but that has a large impact on decisions and processes related to personnel.

Generally an office or area within an agency is never dissolved....they just create new ones to execute new tasks and directives. The ability to repurpose federal employees is very limited either by OPM, Merit Systems Protection Board, EEOC, etc...etc... and "supervisors" really don't know how to supervise. It's just easier to spirit someone off to a closet somewhere than to deal with the issue and make a hard choice.

The fed in some areas is also a huge jobs program. Just like a GM plant shutting down, what happens if you ditch 30% of the federal workforce because they are redundant or unnecessary? If you accept the Fed to be somewhere around 9 Million (not including active military) then you're saying 2 1/2 Million layoffs.

The other part of this, and Military retirees live this every day....is the pension costs for retired civil servants. If you're an old-school CRS retiree...it's pretty good. FERS employees.... not so much.. Expect that to shift even more in the future as employees are expected to shoulder a greater amount of their retirement costs through TSP or other such arrangements.

So.. Somewhere between the way it was before President Garfield and where we are now is probably a good spot.

Just need to determine what percentage of that formula is private contractor? There are flaws in both (as we have seen in the not so distant past).

How much is civil servant?

How do you reform civil service law (given the strength of the unions) and decouple the civil servants from the political will of any particular administration?

A random number (percentage) is not a good approach, neither is a generalization about "unneeded" feds.

[bblhead672]

Good points by all. I did not mean to disparage the rank and file civil servant, meant the Lois Lerner type.

[Badger52]

I did not mean to disparage the rank and file civil servant, meant the Lois Lerner type.Different problem-set; a solution for that type is available though, just to the right of Attilla the Hun. You know, pour encourage' les autres. :cool:

[Ret10Echo]

Good points by all. I did not mean to disparage the rank and file civil servant, meant the Lois Lerner type.


I'm not fully clear but often times what you will find in some more senior positions within government is that they are Schedule C appointees...

[Box]

Lerner was appointed to her position as the head of the Federal Election Commissions Enforcement Division in the mid-1980's
...where she was also accused of unfairly targeting religious organizations

She was appointed to her position as the director of the IRS' Exempt Organizations Unit in 2006. Coincidentally, when she was found in contempt of congress, the Justice Department refused to pursue contempt charges (since Eric Holder himself had been in contempt of congress in 2011)


Not without a small degree of irony, she is also a past president of the Council on Governmental Ethics Laws

[Ret10Echo]

She was appointed to her position as the director of the IRS' Exempt Organizations Unit in 2006.

So apparently an appointee, not a civil servant. What I figured.

There are a LOT of appointees that are low-level without Senate approval.



Thanks B.

[Joker]

So apparently an appointee, not a civil servant. What I figured.

There are a LOT of appointees that are low-level without Senate approval.



Thanks B.

Yep, they can be GS1s through SESs. No DAS (Deputy Assistant Secretary) needs confirmation. Met a bunch of GS14s and GS15s Schedule C employees (Political Appointees). When Pres. Trump just took office they advertised (uh, announced) the empty positions, I saw GS5s positions through Assistant Secretaries (SESs).

[Box]

Depending on where you chase the information she WAS a civil servant - she reportedly enjoys a healthy pension from the Civil Service Retirement System to the tune of roughly 90-100 thousand dollars a year. Forbes even reported her getting as much as $129,300 in bonuses between 2010 and 2013. She was also getting full pay even after she was put on administrative leave. Her pension is 'free-chicken' since she "retired" before the House Ways and Means Committee could drive a stake through her heart.

Meanwhile, if one of us peasants drops a DTS claim for 75 dollars or more without a receipt,
well.... just don't do it


The problem isn't that we live in a perpetual state of crisis within our government; the problem is WHY we live in such a state. It's all about the art of misdirection. Its why the government is so good at letting the tail wag the dog - they are nothing more than street performers dressed in seersucker suits. Face it folks, our representatives in Washington DC run the old Three-Card-Monte with such surgical precision that would make any self respecting New York street hustler jealous.

Keep your eye on the Ace of Spades my good man, watch it close: left to right, right to left, front to back, back to front......
...okay - where is it

AW... too bad. I'll tell you what, double or nothing, and I'll do it slower to make it easier for you to follow - ok, nice and slow - watch close this time:
left to right
right to left
front to back
back to front......
...okay my friend; I think you got me this time
...aw wow - too bad wrong again

[tonyz]

Hiding the pea until retirement is the career goal of far too many bureaucrats.

But, even those useless parasitic bureaucrat types are less loathsome than those of the “I know how to misuse the whole weight of the system to crush you” Lois Lerner type.

[Ret10Echo]

- too bad wrong again

Ain't that the truth...


But in THEORY the differentiator is that a civil servant applies and is hired based upon their having the appropriate skillset to perform a job whether it is blue collar, white collar or executive.

The appointee is put in place to move an administrations agenda forward using the agency as a tool to execute. The qualification is whether they are seen as a footsoldier of the administration.

Funny how that works.

[Golf1echo]

"-Institutional knowledge would be a thing of the past - consider what 18C MOS training might be like if SWC would have been forced to release Ernie Tabata way back in 1989. "
Powerful example of a fortunate situation! Having been in his group In the late 80's I was astounded to hear from some of our racers several decades later he was still there...good stuff!

[Ret10Echo]

Well, regardless, the can has been kicked down the road for 3 weeks. Plenty of time for people to be bought, backroom deals to be made and pork-packages to get added.

[Box]

Cynics - every one of you guys





look on the bright side - Hillary is not the POTUS

[rsdengler]

I think we should just dock Senate/Congress 3 years of pay/and 10 years of their pension plans....let them work for nothing, they hardly do a damn thing as it is, and if I were so incompetent in my job I would have been sacked a long time ago. Wishful thinking......:munchin

[Golf1echo]

In 3 weeks it will still be called "Schumer's Shut Down" if they pull that card once more and the timing.... probably more Americans will be part of the flu epidemic, staff at the CDC will again be furloughed, there will be more homeless Americans, continued threats,etc...

It would be hard to make this stuff up.

[tonyz]

”insurance policies”

“secret societies”

Fake investigations

Missing emails, missing texts and private servers

Bleachbit

Hammers

IRS audits

Fictional dossiers

Unmasking US citizens

Voter IDs are considered rascist

Open borders

Middle of the night cash payments in the BILLIONS to foreign adversaries

Bengahazi

Understament of the Century...there is something rotten in D.C.

[Team Sergeant]

Let me know when the shooting starts, until then I'll be fishing. :munchin

[ddoering]

Let me know when the shooting starts, until then I'll be fishing. :munchin

I think you will be able to hear it when the shooting starts, even out at your fishing spot.