View Full Version : Dealing with 'dead weight'.
Longstreet
02-06-2017, 18:36
Jayson here and how do you deal with 'dead weight' when on course? A friend of mine has joined the Reserves and is on course every second weekend. Last week he told me about a soldier in his course section who refuses to clean her weapon and then pawns it off on classmates to clean. When they refuse, she tells them that if her weapon is dirty, the whole section will suffer as the MCpl. will see this as an example of them not coming together. She also does this with anything else she does not want to do.
I too have joined the Reserves and will be starting Basic in a couple of weeks. I understand the concept of working as a team and supporting each other so that the section will be successful. I have just never thought anything this stupid could happen. At first I felt if I was in this situation, I would "charm the snake" (a term I learned about from GORUCK) and just deal with it. But then it occurred to me that this woman may graduate and become a qualified soldier. Is she the kind of person who I would want to depend on with my life? And why should the class permit her to be successful when it is clear she does not care herself? Yet this just seems to go against everything I have learned about serving with the military. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.
jaYson
Oh no. Hell no.
Fuck no.
FUCK no.
They want to punish all of us? Ok.
But they will figure out real fast what the real problem is.
I would saturate my clothes in jet fuel and set myself alight long before I put up with something like this. Tell this crazy bitch to go fuck herself, and that no one is going to help her from this point on.
Then have your class leader (or whatever they have, there should be something like this) go have a candid talk with the instructors and tell them the deal.
If this doesn't work for whatever reason, go ahead and clean that weapon. Then lose the firing pin.
Let her try to explain what happened at the next range. Sabotage her gear. Throw her personal items in the trash. She'll figure it out or go away, and either way this is over.
Do NOT clean her weapon or pull her weight.
TOMAHAWK9521
02-06-2017, 23:52
I like the idea of misplacing components of said individual's weapon. Get creative.But don't stop at the firing pin. Try removing a different spring every now and then. I was going to suggest removing the buffer spring but that would be too easy. Consider adjusting her sights to something new and challenging each time she hands it off. Sooner or later the cadre will start to wonder why she is having one major malfunction after another. It may take longer than dropping a 3-ton dime on her ass but likely to be a lot more entertaining. Just make sure that when the time comes for the cadre start asking if anyone has been messing with her weapon, you articulate very clearly the circumstances that led to said inquiry in order to justify your actions. :D
On my Basic back when we still had Martini Henry rifles, we had I believe 4 females in the entire recruit company.
2 were pretty awesome, 1 was mediocre at best, 1 was cancer.
On final field EX I was on the gun/sentry in an open country pit.
Miss Cancer stopped by to visit.
She starts jibber jabbering about how much "2 particular males" in her section/Platoon suck.
I said, "You're not in my section or Platoon, get the F out of my gun pit."
A few hours later accountability was conducted for all Class A stores.
C9(SAW) barrels were missing.
"2 particular males" were accused of the loss/failure.
I added up 2 + 2 = "red haired devil witch did it" and had been covering it up and setting them up for a day and a half.
The 2 particular males were acquitted as a result and the entire company spent a long day searching a grid square sized bog for 2 barrels(found).
Did the devil witch get in trouble?
Not nearly as much as she should have.
Why? Because of counter accusations she made in every direction, only one of which was partially true and consentual, which was enough.
-----
What's the moral of the story?
What Scooter and Tomahawk said.
But I'd also include, when dealing with females that use witchcraft, trickery, and threats of artificial sexual harassment make sure to:
Use the two man rule at all times when dealing with her, or better yet, another high performance/integrity female riding shotgun to mitigate such a worthless piece of rubbish trying to pull bullsh!t "Wild Cards".
Mitigate against BS counter accusations.
1stindoor
02-07-2017, 06:32
Combatives training?
miclo18d
02-07-2017, 06:55
As much as I would want to see her weapon fall apart, that would only be perceived as you're out to get her because she's a female, not because she's a turd.
You want to show teamwork? Stick together in your punishment for her weapon not being cleaned. There is nothing more individual in the military than cleaning your own weapo! (In your unit, when the 1SG does a weapons inspection, guaranteed you will be called out individually to reclean your weapon, in a very public setting, to remind everyone who is holding the unit up from being released.
Besides, Aticle 127 of the UCMJ covers extortion.
Article 127 in the Manual of Court Martial deals with extortion. The text of the statute says that if a service member communicates a threat to another person, intending to gain an article of value or any advantage, immunity or acquittal, he can be held guilty of extortion and accordingly punished by a court martial.
The elements of the offense
A certain threat was communicated by the accused to the other person.
The accused's intention was to unlawfully obtain an article of value, or any advantage, immunity or acquittal from the other person.
Maximum punishment for the offense of extortion
The accused can be punished with a dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all allowances and pay and 3 years of confinement.
.......
Shhh, keep it quite, blanket party at 1130 for biatch... bring your own soap in a sock...
DIYPatriot
02-07-2017, 07:58
If this doesn't work for whatever reason, go ahead and clean that weapon. Then lose the firing pin.
Let her try to explain what happened at the next range. Sabotage her gear. Throw her personal items in the trash. She'll figure it out or go away, and either way this is over.
We had a similar situation at BCT. I was the PG (the so-called class leader you referenced above). All of us knew all too well who the shitbag was and we were fed up with it. I took another respected PG with me to speak to the Drill Sgts about it and asked what I could do to alleviate the issue. The DS told us it would be a real shame if anyone ever found spent brass in that PFC's possession (b/c they'd be sent home after pulling weeds for a few months, among other things). And, as they say, the rest is history.
We had a similar situation at BCT. I was the PG (the so-called class leader you referenced above). All of us knew all too well who the shitbag was and we were fed up with it. I took another respected PG with me to speak to the Drill Sgts about it and asked what I could do to alleviate the issue. The DS told us it would be a real shame if anyone ever found spent brass in that PFC's possession (b/c they'd be sent home after pulling weeds for a few months, among other things). And, as they say, the rest is history.
I was thinking the same..
But wasn't sure if today's army recruits were allowed to have real bullets on the range?? LMAO
DIYPatriot
02-07-2017, 08:15
I was thinking the same..
But wasn't sure if today's army recruits were allowed to have real bullets on the range?? LMAO
Yes - believe it or not they were still issuing actual ammo...however, you only get one bullet. Better make it count! :D
miclo18d
02-07-2017, 08:19
Ok, y'all are making me remember back to my BCT.
3 incidents that were mostly self correcting. These all happened during Infantry OSUT AIT and we were just weeks away from completing. People were getting cocky. Most guys that didn't want to be there had already self flushed.
A guy talked back to one of the ladies at the chow hall after getting busted getting soda-- DS had him report to his office -- he came out crying.
Second guy was a turd and never listened to anyone in "charge" PG, SLs etc. his "SL" was a guy that was reclassifying and coming active from the guard. He was like 6'3" and asked the DS what he could do. The DS said whatever it takes. He turned right around in front of the DSs, the company commander and the XO and knocked the fucker out -- result, guy started to come around.
2 guys in the platoon were hating on each other and they finally had it and they beat the tar out of each other, well, at least one guy beat the tar out of the other guy. What do you know, it was soda boy that got his ass handed to him! Problem solved, problem stayed solved. (For those older guys from 7th it was Arrowsmith's younger brother Troy that kicked the shit out of this guy.)
frostfire
02-07-2017, 12:11
hmmm, I am sure I get to learn a thing or two here from "reality on the field"
A buddy and me have the chance to do command at a drill instructor unit. I am sure we will come across **** like this with social experiment at full blown spped.
Aggressive-aggressive is no go in today's army, and so far I see plenty passive-aggressive solutions. Is there no room for an assertive solution? :munchin
Perhaps something along the line of talking to said individual, appealing to her motivation to join and highlighting her strong points (no matter how hard/impossible that may be..
Thank you for the education
Perhaps something along the line of talking to said individual, appealing to her motivation to join and highlighting her strong points (no matter how hard/impossible that may be.
This isn't going to work. With people this toxic, they most often need a rough wake up call to see the error of their ways. A good chat will almost never do it.
I guess blanket-parties have fallen out of fashion, then.
Pat
How about just telling her she is a piece of shit and needs to pull her weight in the unit. No need for games etc. Refuse to do her work for her. Don't say no tell her hell no. If her weapon is dirty at the end of day tough shit. It sounds like a leadership failure for letting her get by with that as much as anything.
That's pretty much it in a nutshell. That screams of a weak, spineless leader.
With that said, if the others are cleaning her trash, the can get in line with the other invertebrates.
DIYPatriot
02-07-2017, 12:53
I guess blanket-parties have fallen out of fashion, then.
Pat
Not entirely. At least, with our Drill Sgts, we found creative ways around certain things. Such as experiencing ad hoc combatives training in our down time/personal time some nights. I remember one particular night that a guy got thrown into the dry wall and broke it badly as he went between the 2x4 studs in the war bay. Thinking we were dead, we just waited for the swarm of drill sgts to dog pile on us. However, when they realized who just had his ass beaten (he was a total shitbag up to that point), they simply told us to cover it up with the shitbag's wall locker until they could procure some supplies. Part of his deficiencies was keeping things dress right dress and stealing gear from his battle buddies, so I guess they seized the opportunity to make him keep his stuff on public display. That following Sunday they made that guy patch up the hole. Not exactly a blanket party, but it achieved similar results I suppose.
Team Sergeant
02-07-2017, 16:43
Jayson here and how do you deal with 'dead weight' when on course? A friend of mine has joined the Reserves and is on course every second weekend. Last week he told me about a soldier in his course section who refuses to clean her weapon and then pawns it off on classmates to clean. When they refuse, she tells them that if her weapon is dirty, the whole section will suffer as the MCpl. will see this as an example of them not coming together. She also does this with anything else she does not want to do.
I too have joined the Reserves and will be starting Basic in a couple of weeks. I understand the concept of working as a team and supporting each other so that the section will be successful. I have just never thought anything this stupid could happen. At first I felt if I was in this situation, I would "charm the snake" (a term I learned about from GORUCK) and just deal with it. But then it occurred to me that this woman may graduate and become a qualified soldier. Is she the kind of person who I would want to depend on with my life? And why should the class permit her to be successful when it is clear she does not care herself? Yet this just seems to go against everything I have learned about serving with the military. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.
jaYson
I started laughing out loud by the forth sentence....... Sounds like a platoon of snowflakes, or at least flakes.
This is where/why the term "wall to wall counseling" was born.
Blanket parties...there were 2 of them in my BCT in other platoons...our Battery made the Army Times, this was in 2006. I remember thinking "When does the Army start?", probably had something to do with our command.
I would think that BCT has only gotten softer since then. Though mine was probably of a slightly lower standard at Sill.
I believe that the only people that got any kind of UCMJ action were the outstanding individuals who actually broke their buttstocks and pistol grips practicing pugils in the bay on their M16s...which explains why BCT has garbage for equipment.
In that time frame people were pushed through, and I think the only ones who didn't complete, went AWOL. The Refuse to Trains got recycled, it's different now though, the Army can be a little more selective.
Longstreet
02-07-2017, 18:46
Sounds like a platoon of snowflakes, or at least flakes.
Nah, from my understanding they are just a bunch of young kids (early to mid 20's) who want to serve their country, do what is asked of them (from their instructors) and stay in their lanes. I am considerably older and was at a loss how I would have managed this. Is this an example of "embracing the suck" or a time to "fight back"? For those of you experienced the answer is easy, but for us new guys it is a bit different.
That being said I do want to thank the responses I have received. They have been both enlightening and interesting. I think the way I would go about dealing with it is first speak to the woman. If nothing happens, then go to the section leader and have him/her speak to the MCpl. about the situation. If this proves to be futile, then I would then get more "creative" with how to solve it.
I did not mention it before, but to add to this little situation, the "turd" announced she is pregnant, so the "blanket party" would definitely be a no-go. Oddly enough she still engages in regular smoke breaks and yes she does partake in the habit too. What a piece of work, eh?
Thanks again for the suggestions and help.
jaYson
Longstreet
02-07-2017, 21:13
What one cleaning the weapon knocked her up?
Huh? Not sure where that one came from. To the best of my knowledge she came to basic pregnant. This is Reserve training which for part 1, is done on weekends.
quit looking at them as kids instead treat them as adults they should be. Big boy rules apply.
It was not my intent to use "kids" as a derogatory put down, but more of a term for them being 'newbies'. After reading your post I see that I should have used a different word. What I meant was that the new recruits in my buddy's section are not "snowflakes" but rather new to the army way of life. And sometimes when one is learning to understand the rules, applying them can be a challenge. I am certain when they finish basic, things will be different. I know it will be for me.
jaYson
frostfire
02-07-2017, 21:53
I did not mention it before, but to add to this little situation, the "turd" announced she is pregnant, so the "blanket party" would definitely be a no-go. Oddly enough she still engages in regular smoke breaks and yes she does partake in the habit too. What a piece of work, eh?
YHGTBKM!!!! :mad:
you're going to bring my PTSD back from dealing with a private having her 3rd pregnancy in the first 2 years in the army....unmarried of course, not that there's anything wrong with that anymore.
Yep, want to have kids and spend zero $$$, join the army! Be all that you can be right?!?! Then ETS straight to welfare *puke*
82nd got a program for that now and my PA buddy does not enjoy being in charge of it at all...
TacOfficer
02-07-2017, 22:12
YHGTBKM!!!! :mad:
you're going to bring my PTSD back from dealing with a private having her 3rd pregnancy in the first 2 years in the army....unmarried of course, not that there's anything wrong with that anymore.
Yep, want to have kids and spend zero $$$, join the army! Be all that you can be right?!?! Then ETS straight to welfare *puke*
82nd got a program for that now and my PA buddy does not enjoy being in charge of it at all...
I've stayed silent on this topic because I wasn't in the armed forces. BUT there you have touch upon something I can truly relate.
We too have those that joined the force, not to serve and protect, but to collect the check with as little effort as possible. Then those further take advantage of gender specific benefits that there is no form of parity.
From experience I have seen first hand, as so many have have said, how slackers in a team enviroment expect "workers" to carry the load because the slacker knows the worker has too much pride in the team to let it fail.
Seen it first hand and it boils the blood. Every team has its own rules and tolerances. I do not have any suggestions on how to operate in the military. However if you venture into my world, "Vee Haff Vays"....