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thid92
01-25-2017, 15:21
I have seen a few soldiers returning from deployment in Afghanistan wearing the SOCOM patch, I question it because it's only a few out of the entire brigade that went wearing them. They claim they were attached doing logistics for SOCOM. Is this legit or are they taking it upon them selves to wear a patch the have seen the SF guys wear thinking they are authorized to wear it? If someone in the know can shed some light on the situation so I can call them out if they are not entitled to wear them.

CAARNG 68W
01-25-2017, 16:21
Are you talking about the SF patch that non-SF Joe's wear on their right sleeve?


It's to show everyone else they did cool stuff on their mob, or at least they watched cool people do cool stuff.

blue02hd
01-25-2017, 19:38
Ask to see their orders that award that specific units Combat Patch?

TBH I'm not even sure why one would care. These potatoes are very small.

My .02$

thid92
01-25-2017, 22:15
I never been under any SF unit and don't have the under standing how you deploy, this is why I am coming here before confronting someone I am 90% doesn't deserve to wear A socom patch as a combat patch.

If socom deployed would they deploy in a command size element or do they send small teams that would fall in on other commands. I hope I am not violating any opsec here. My guess is they would send smaller teams that would fall under major commands, they would still wear their SF/SOCOM patch rather than the command they fall under.

Hope my rambling and questions make any sort of sense. Guess I could always pull their deployment order in iPERMS

HardRoad
01-25-2017, 22:38
For what it's worth, the SF patch and the SOCOM patch are two different things. The SF patch is the arrowhead with 3 lightning bolts over a V-42 commando knife in the middle (the "electric butter knife".)

The SOCOM patch is an oval with a spearhead in the middle and a wreath around the outside (at least, they tell me it's a wreath - I always thought it was the rope used to tie the hands of the people actually fighting the war.)

I don't know what the rules are now, but back in the early days of the war, you could get a SF patch by being attached to an SF unit for 30 days. All kinds of people would finagle a 30 day vacation at our firebase (loggies, ETTs, medical types, etc.) so that they could get the patch. No biggie there - a ton of support folks assigned to the SOTF got it too.

All kinds of non-SOF qualified folks deploy for SOCOM too, so all either patch tells you about someone is that they happened to be assigned or attached to a SOF unit downrange.

And, really, all the patch actually tells you is that someone had $3.98 to spend at Ranger Joe's.

thid92
01-26-2017, 08:37
For what it's worth, the SF patch and the SOCOM patch are two different things. The SF patch is the arrowhead with 3 lightning bolts over a V-42 commando knife in the middle (the "electric butter knife".)

The SOCOM patch is an oval with a spearhead in the middle and a wreath around the outside (at least, they tell me it's a wreath - I always thought it was the rope used to tie the hands of the people actually fighting the war.)

I don't know what the rules are now, but back in the early days of the war, you could get a SF patch by being attached to an SF unit for 30 days. All kinds of people would finagle a 30 day vacation at our firebase (loggies, ETTs, medical types, etc.) so that they could get the patch. No biggie there - a ton of support folks assigned to the SOTF got it too.

All kinds of non-SOF qualified folks deploy for SOCOM too, so all either patch tells you about someone is that they happened to be assigned or attached to a SOF unit downrange.

And, really, all the patch actually tells you is that someone had $3.98 to spend at Ranger Joe's.


Hardroad,

Thank you for your reply. I understand the patches are different and the 30 day required to earn it with the unit. I just wasn't sure is SOCOM deployed large enough elements to have outside units attached. If in fact it's a px Ranger thing I want to put a stop to it. I have called out a 1SG that was deployed with me when he was a SSG that wears the CAB that he didn't earn, I am a true believers that you wear what you have earned. I do realize a SF/SOCOM patch doesn't say much being worn on the right sleeve but right is right and wrong must be addressed.

bowhunter
01-26-2017, 13:12
Hardroad,

Thank you for your reply. I understand the patches are different and the 30 day required to earn it with the unit. I just wasn't sure is SOCOM deployed large enough elements to have outside units attached. If in fact it's a px Ranger thing I want to put a stop to it. I have called out a 1SG that was deployed with me when he was a SSG that wears the CAB that he didn't earn, I am a true believers that you wear what you have earned. I do realize a SF/SOCOM patch doesn't say much being worn on the right sleeve but right is right and wrong must be addressed.

It is as simple as Blue stated.
THID, obviously you have the ability find out if the guy earned the patch or not. More importantly I want to let you know it is individuals like you -concerning yourself with matters that don't effect a unit or individual's ability of being a warfighter - causing many squared away barrel chested freedom fighters to leave the military. You should re-focus your efforts to what is important in being a leader of troops(assumption).

After several trips in SF, never earned the right shoulder patch, I decided to get out of the military because too many leaders and decision makers concern themselves with diminutive matters which in turn effects moral and productivity of a unit. Essentially you are tightening the rope that is already tight enough with the complexities of current threats.

thid92
01-26-2017, 13:53
It is as simple as Blue stated.
THID, obviously you have the ability find out if the guy earned the patch or not. More importantly I want to let you know it is individuals like you -concerning yourself with matters that don't effect a unit or individual's ability of being a warfighter - causing many squared away barrel chested freedom fighters to leave the military. You should re-focus your efforts to what is important in being a leader of troops(assumption).

After several trips in SF, never earned the right shoulder patch, I decided to get out of the military because too many leaders and decision makers concern themselves with diminutive matters which in turn effects moral and productivity of a unit. Essentially you are tightening the rope that is already tight enough with the complexities of current threats.

OK I think you took it a bit to far comparing me with toxic leadership over something I consider an integrity violation. I don't have to explain myself but I have always done real well with the Soldiers that I have had under me and 90% have grown to become great leaders themselves.

bowhunter
01-26-2017, 14:58
OK I think you took it a bit to far comparing me with toxic leadership over something I consider an integrity violation. I don't have to explain myself but I have always done real well with the Soldiers that I have had under me and 90% have grown to become great leaders themselves.

It most certainly could be an Integrity violation or if this is Joe we are speaking about, possibly ignorance. Without going into your reasoning for sake of time this is how I would handle the situation and maybe you have but I doubt it.
- At the first opportunity begin building genuine rapport with said individual. You will learn a lot by doing this maybe even more than that paper will tell you.
- If you still have doubts investigate further on your own.
Upon completion of above steps you will establish a verdict. If your assumptions were correct your rapport establishment will allow you to decipher if said individual is committing an Integrity Violation or needs a little guidance.

Again without going into your reasoning, what are your motives for said investigation? No answer needed, for your self reflection.
Something to think about:
In the event the guy is authorized to wear said patch – You went to an online forum for something relatively easy to determine-you have access to all Army regulations, an S-1 shop, iperms and HRC to assist in validating his claims. What would you consider yourself then? What effects did your actions have on your Unit? Did you improve the Units ability to accomplish task?

My only intention in this argument is to weigh in on something I see as a larger problem than toxicity, again this type of situation was the largest contributing factor to me leaving.

In the big scheme of things some shit just really doesn’t matter. Think of it like business (your product is capable soldiers and their ability, whatever MOS). Your actions only impact that bottom line in two ways – positive or negative. If the matter has no effect on that bottom line to begin with don’t concern yourself with it. If you go through all this trouble and are wrong in your assumptions, you negatively impact that bottom line. Now if you are correct, how does it impact the bottom line? If he is a shit bag and you get rid of him, positive. If he performs and you get rid of him, negative. If he performs and just needs guidance and counseling, short run negative with long term gain.

CDRODA396
01-26-2017, 17:58
There are a fair amount of TF's that deploy that wear the SOCOM patch as their combat patch. They generally have habitual relationships with all of their support elements. I personally know 5 or 6 CA and PYSOP personnel, and even more Commo Dudes that legally sport the patch. It is not outside the realm of possibility that a support guy would have one.

thid92
01-26-2017, 22:17
There are a fair amount of TF's that deploy that wear the SOCOM patch as their combat patch. They generally have habitual relationships with all of their support elements. I personally know 5 or 6 CA and PYSOP personnel, and even more Commo Dudes that legally sport the patch. It is not outside the realm of possibility that a support guy would have one.
CDRODA,

thank you for your reply. I have the utmost respect for what you guys endure and if someone was in fact attached and earned the patch I would not have an issue with that as I am sure they are on top of their field being attached to you guys.


Reason why I am questioning it is because my old national guard brigade deployed and I have only seen 2 soldiers come back with the SOCOM patch. I am friends with one of the guys in charge of the section and questioned him about it and he shook his head saying they didn't get awarded the patch and that they were tasked to inventory the serial of some SF guys because they didn't have a property officer

All in all I have spoken with the Soldier and I didn't get a good vibe when I was feeling him out about it. Whim better to ask these questions than a forum of Silent professionals with more experience on this subject.

As far as MOB orders I know from my own experience that not all commands I fell under are listed there. Halfway through my deployment we had a COC and BDE took charge.

blue02hd
01-27-2017, 06:32
You should simply smoke them on a PT test and then heckle them daily for additional lunch money.

If you can't.. well then recognize their superiority over you and conduct daily personal affirmations in the mirror until another earth shattering topic pops up.

Then go join an Air Soft clan.

But maybe you could stop posting it about it here? Integrity checks go both ways, and it sounds as if you'd rather vent online here rather than research the Army regs yourself. People who like to point fingers sometimes forget there are three fingers in their hand that point right back.

Worry about your team/ squad/ section first. I guarantee there are other issues that you CAN effect that will improve either yourself or your unit.

Remember, empty cans rattle the most.

(Sorry CDRODA396, I never learned how to apply tact as well as you can, even though you tried your best to teach me.)

thid92
01-27-2017, 07:25
You should simply smoke them on a PT test and then heckle them daily for additional lunch money.

If you can't.. well then recognize their superiority over you and conduct daily personal affirmations in the mirror until another earth shattering topic pops up.

Then go join an Air Soft clan.

But maybe you could stop posting it about it here? Integrity checks go both ways, and it sounds as if you'd rather vent online here rather than research the Army regs yourself. People who like to point fingers sometimes forget there are three fingers in their hand that point right back.

Worry about your team/ squad/ section first. I guarantee there are other issues that you CAN effect that will improve either yourself or your unit.

Remember, empty cans rattle the most.

(Sorry CDRODA396, I never learned how to apply tact as well as you can, even though you tried your best to teach me.)

No issues about the APFT. Seems as this community doesn't care if that's the case I could care less about it I guess. I have always looked up to the SF community.

Thank you for your direct approach and I am sure I could have included more information in my posts on the subject to make myself more clear.

JJ_BPK
01-27-2017, 07:26
THID92,,

It's Friday,

I think you should take a couple days and contemplate you future, both in this house and at your place of work..

Capish??

18C4V
01-27-2017, 08:22
Ask the soldier for his MFR. We just had a combat patch ceremony where 23 SF Support Soldiers got their SF combat patch. My S-1 did a MFR for each soldier with the endstate it gets loaded up into IPERMS and onto the soldiers ERB.

Now, I understand if the soldier doens't have a copy of his MFR (inject whatever reason) and it hasn't been uploaded into IPERMS and onto his ERB (S-1 clerk drops the ball), then he needs to talk to the S-1 where the MFR originated or have someone in the S-1 call to the other S-1.

At some point, the system will catch up to that soldier if he continously wears a combat patch that he's not authorzied to wear. Wether it's a promotion board, DA Photo, SOY board, etc.

Pete
01-27-2017, 09:31
No issues about the APFT. Seems as this community doesn't care if that's the case I could care less about it I guess. I have always looked up to the SF community. ...

It's not that we don't care - it's that we learned to rope our own goats. Something we expect others to learn how to do.

So stop with the insults because you weren't spoon feed what you wanted. One more wise ass comment from you and you'll hit my last nerve.

thid92
01-27-2017, 10:54
It's not that we don't care - it's that we learned to rope our own goats. Something we expect others to learn how to do.

So stop with the insults because you weren't spoon feed what you wanted. One more wise ass comment from you and you'll hit my last nerve.

Pete, I wasn't looking to insult anyone in the community, the responses given to me were telling me to mind my own business and not to worry about it. that is how I interpreted them.

I am going to pull this junior enlisted as side and have a talk to him and guide him in the right direction. if he deployed but doesn't have any attachment order I will help him get that.

18CAV brought up a great point which I will also bring up to him, if he takes his DA photo wearing something he hasn't earned it will come back to him.


I am not doing this just to mess with a lower enlisted soldier, I feel if I don't talk to him I fail him as a leader.

I got some negative feed back and also some great feed back and walked away with more knowledge. have a great weekend and stay safe

blue02hd
01-27-2017, 21:18
I am not doing this just to mess with a lower enlisted soldier, I feel if I don't talk to him I fail him as a leader.



Are you in the soldiers (in question) Chain of Command? Based on your posts I read this as "No". Then if you are NOT in their CoC then you are in another NCO's lane. So you truly are not "messing with a junior enlisted", you are also calling out his CoC. Perhaps you are the only soldier in your Command that cares about "integrity" (That seems highly doubtful) and are basically throwing the actual CoC under the bus here?? Also, I am surmising that you have not attended SLC or ALC because if you had you would have already known where to find the answer to your original post, or at a minimum know how to research your answer. If you HAVE been to SLC or ALC then yes I agree, you ARE failing as a leader because you are not up to speed on the requisite regulations. When you confront your target of opportunity you had better have something more tangible than "the guys at PS.Com said" as you make uniform corrections or integrity checks on soldiers in your own unit.

Additionally, it is apparent you have not directed your concerns to the first NCO in the "junior enlisted's CoC", as is a common leadership courtesy. Am I correct or in error here? You see there is nothing that would chap a mans ass more than when another NCO or Officer approaches them and inform them that their Team/ Squad/ Platoon/ or ODA was jacked up because they had poor leadership, (which is exactly what you will imply). If he did it on a public forum, say like an internet forum accessible to the open public, then a serious incident would follow. Maybe you should consider that.

My "direct" post this morning may have been snarky, and I understand that, but this post is from the heart. You better know EXACTLY what you are talking about before you start shining spot lights Ranger.

If a simple patch gets you this twisted, then you need to seriously re-prioritize.

Trapper John
01-29-2017, 10:09
You should simply smoke them on a PT test and then heckle them daily for additional lunch money.

If you can't.. well then recognize their superiority over you and conduct daily personal affirmations in the mirror until another earth shattering topic pops up.

Then go join an Air Soft clan.

But maybe you could stop posting it about it here? Integrity checks go both ways, and it sounds as if you'd rather vent online here rather than research the Army regs yourself. People who like to point fingers sometimes forget there are three fingers in their hand that point right back.

Worry about your team/ squad/ section first. I guarantee there are other issues that you CAN effect that will improve either yourself or your unit.

Remember, empty cans rattle the most.

(Sorry CDRODA396, I never learned how to apply tact as well as you can, even though you tried your best to teach me.)

Blue it's your candor and sarcastic directness that makes you so damn adorable! Look out Billy, Blue's on your 6. :D

PSM
05-14-2017, 22:47
There are a fair amount of TF's that deploy that wear the SOCOM patch as their combat patch. They generally have habitual relationships with all of their support elements. I personally know 5 or 6 CA and PYSOP personnel, and even more Commo Dudes that legally sport the patch. It is not outside the realm of possibility that a support guy would have one.

This may just be "political". My son is on a TF attached to SOCOM and they are sending him to Iraq and want him to wear the SOCOM combat patch. His NG unit wants him to wear theirs. Is it possible that SOCOM wants more SOCOM combat patches visible in the units? :confused:

BTW, my son called it political.

Pat

JJ_BPK
05-15-2017, 06:29
This may just be "political". My son is on a TF attached to SOCOM and they are sending him to Iraq and want him to wear the SOCOM combat patch. His NG unit wants him to wear theirs. Is it possible that SOCOM wants more SOCOM combat patches visible in the units? :confused:

BTW, my son called it political.

Pat


Interesting.. In the same vane,, Do 20th SFG augumentee's wear the 3rd,5rd,7th flash or do they stay with the 20th flash?? Is it a PCS or TDY?

If I'm not mistaken,, way back, there was a difference?


:munchin

SF_BHT
05-15-2017, 17:21
This may just be "political". My son is on a TF attached to SOCOM and they are sending him to Iraq and want him to wear the SOCOM combat patch. His NG unit wants him to wear theirs. Is it possible that SOCOM wants more SOCOM combat patches visible in the units? :confused:

BTW, my son called it political.

Pat

If his unit is not deployed and he is attached to a SOCOM unit his combat patch will be SOCOM. Nothing new here it has always been that way for attachments to a Group/TF/etc...... How do you think all those support guys from where ever now sport the electric butter knife.

Joker
05-15-2017, 21:22
This may just be "political". My son is on a TF attached to SOCOM and they are sending him to Iraq and want him to wear the SOCOM combat patch. His NG unit wants him to wear theirs. Is it possible that SOCOM wants more SOCOM combat patches visible in the units? :confused:

BTW, my son called it political.

Pat

Pat,
Which TF?

PSM
05-15-2017, 21:27
Pat,
Which TF?

Don't know. I'll Skype him to find out.

Pat

PSM
05-16-2017, 11:10
PM sent.

Pat