View Full Version : Citizen-Soldier in the NG SF?
Is being a Citizen-Soldier in the NG SF really possible? I've searched about this extensively, but have been confused due to conflicting view points. What I've learned is that it's only possible for those with careers in local/Federal Law enforcement and Fire Departments. It appears these careers provide more flexibility. Is this a possibility for other careers? The SF Citizen-Soldier is characterized by such knowledge and professionalism in diverse fields of expertise, however, I get the impression that one can only excel as one or the other, but not both. I've been confused because the website for the A/2/20 SFG states the following;
"Being both Citizens and Green Berets, we bring a unique capacity to the SF Regiment; numerous additionally honed skills not normally found in SF. These extensive capabilities reside in the day to day experiences inside the civilian sector as public and private servants. Our members work in law enforcement, federal agencies, defensive contracting, medicine, business/management, and social work." - (http://www.il.ngb.army.mil/Organizations/Army/unitweb/20sf/aboutus.aspx)
Other places also state many are lawyers, school teachers, own businesses, pursue Doctorate degrees and a QP on this site even posted that one of his teammates was a surgeon. The confusion stems from QP's here also implying that pursuits outside of NG SF take away from the commitment to the team. Perhaps I've misunderstood things.
It appears that excelling as both a citizen and SF soldier is not possible, but Isn't this a defining strength of the NG SF teams? Any clarification on this would be greatly appreciated, especially from anyone from A/2/20. Thank you for taking the time to read this question.
Respectfully,
Santi
blue02hd
10-26-2016, 06:58
I'm pretty sure the Athenian military advocated for the Citizen/Soldier model as superior, until they faced the Spartans.
NG offers a great deal to the force, but if you want to excel in this arena it will require a full time commitment.
How many Tier 1 NG units are there?
YMMV
Soldier1984
10-26-2016, 09:54
You get what you put into the NG SF companies. If you are going to spend your time concentrating on your civilian occupation you won't be an asset to a team.
You get what you put into the NG SF companies. If you are going to spend your time concentrating on your civilian occupation you won't be an asset to a team.
If you don't concentrate on your civilian occupation, you won't be an asset to your family, or yourself.
You get what you put into the NG SF companies. If you are going to spend your time concentrating on your civilian occupation you won't be an asset to a team.
This makes sense, however, it implies that NG SF soldiers don't have successful civilian careers while serving on a team. Recruiting for NG SF suggests otherwise, so is this then an issue of theory vs. practice? Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Astronomy
10-26-2016, 13:49
Is being a Citizen-Soldier in the NG SF really possible?
Of course it is. It's the raison d'ętre for the organization. Part Time. You're confusing recent combat deployments/OPTEMPO with the normal majority non-deployed time of any Reserve/Guard unit across a 20 or 30 year career. Naturally, when you deploy, the civilian career gets put on hold, as provided for by law and good personal planning. If you're gone to war for a year, your previous life is far, far away. You focus on the deployment and your team. But you eventually go back to that other life. Thousands of Army National Guard SF have done exactly that over the years. Some decide to volunteer for additional singleton / augmentation assignments downrange. Some cross over to Active Duty. Some do contracting gigs between unit mobilizations for wartime deployment. But most have a paid career outside of the Army... and SF.
Perhaps I've misunderstood things.
Yes, you have. By definition, SF Guard are not full time Soldiers except when activated for State Duty, attending schools, gone for training deployments, assigned to AGR billets, or while Federalized (e.g., for combat rotations). All carefully scheduled to meet laws limiting their duration of employment.
I served in SF for 32 years. 7 of those in the Reserve (11th). I was also an Active Duty advisor to a 19th Guard SF battalion for 4 years (and went to war with them).
People have other jobs. The force tends to attract a heavy representation of law enforcement careers. This at everything from local to state to federal level. But many other livelihoods are represented.
Across the seven years I was assigned, my Reserve ODA always had several cops. Sheriff's Deputy, Big City Police Detective, ATF Agent, & Small Town Police Chief. But we also had a Sports Physiologist/High School Teacher, several Full Time College Students, Auto Repair Center Owner, Pharmaceutical Salesman, Real Estate Company Executive VP, Civil Engineer with a major construction corporation, and a few others.
In that company, other team guys filled a variety of civilian occupations: Trauma Surgeon, Attorney, Financial Advisor, Stock Broker, College English Professor, Residential Building Contractor, State Trooper, FBI Agent, Banker, LPN, P.A., Town Mayor, Corporate Petroleum Geologist, FAA Commercial Aircraft Mechanic, Retail Manager, CPA, Self Employed Entrepreneurs, Small Business Owners, Consultants, etc.
Typical civilian careers held by folks in 11th Group during the Cold War & Gulf War 1984-1991. I personally saw similar occupations represented across 19th Group from 2001 through 2006.
Is it difficult to juggle two careers? Damn straight. But the kind of folks that make it in SF are the kind of folks who can figure out how to skin that cat.
Peregrino
10-26-2016, 13:49
This makes sense, however, it implies that NG SF soldiers don't have successful civilian careers while serving on a team. Recruiting for NG SF suggests otherwise, so is this then an issue of theory vs. practice? Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
There's a reason Recruiters are stereotyped as bearing a strong resemblance to used car salesmen. (Yes - I find stereotypes useful. They wouldn't exist if there wasn't an element of truth in them.) Case in point - the current "crisis in ethics" that has resulted in the California "bonus" recoupment debacle. Caveat emptor.
Edited to add - Over the past 15 years, many NG SF Soldiers have contributed to the overall SF mission at levels far beyond what the Guard is designed for. Many of those who had careers have paid a heavy price. I personally don't expect the OPTEMPO to change.
... I personally don't expect the OPTEMPO to change.
I do, I see it getting worse.
Of course it is. It's the raison d'ętre for the organization. Part Time. You're confusing recent combat deployments/OPTEMPO with the normal majority non-deployed time of any Reserve/Guard unit across a 20 or 30 year career. Naturally, when you deploy, the civilian career gets put on hold, as provided for by law and good personal planning. If you're gone to war for a year, your previous life is far, far away. You focus on the deployment and your team. But you eventually go back to that other life. Thousands of Army National Guard SF have done exactly that over the years. Some decide to volunteer for additional singleton / augmentation assignments downrange. Some cross over to Active Duty. Some do contracting gigs between unit mobilizations for wartime deployment. But most have a paid career outside of the Army... and SF.
Yes, you have. By definition, SF Guard are not full time Soldiers except when activated for State Duty, attending schools, gone for training deployments, assigned to AGR billets, or while Federalized (e.g., for combat rotations). All carefully scheduled to meet laws limiting their duration of employment.
I served in SF for 32 years. 7 of those in the Reserve (11th). I was also an Active Duty advisor to a 19th Guard SF battalion for 4 years (and went to war with them).
People have other jobs. The force tends to attract a heavy representation of law enforcement careers. This at everything from local to state to federal level. But many other livelihoods are represented.
Across the seven years I was assigned, my Reserve ODA always had several cops. Sheriff's Deputy, Big City Police Detective, ATF Agent, & Small Town Police Chief. But we also had a Sports Physiologist/High School Teacher, several Full Time College Students, Auto Repair Center Owner, Pharmaceutical Salesman, Real Estate Company Executive VP, Civil Engineer with a major construction corporation, and a few others.
In that company, other team guys filled a variety of civilian occupations: Trauma Surgeon, Attorney, Financial Advisor, Stock Broker, College English Professor, Residential Building Contractor, State Trooper, FBI Agent, Banker, LPN, P.A., Town Mayor, Corporate Petroleum Geologist, FAA Commercial Aircraft Mechanic, Retail Manager, CPA, Self Employed Entrepreneurs, Small Business Owners, Consultants, etc.
Typical civilian careers held by folks in 11th Group during the Cold War & Gulf War 1984-1991. I personally saw similar occupations represented across 19th Group from 2001 through 2006.
Is it difficult to juggle two careers? Damn straight. But the kind of folks that make it in SF are the kind of folks who can figure out how to skin that cat.
Sir, Thank you for your comments. Thats some serious multi-tasking you describe there.
There's a reason Recruiters are stereotyped as bearing a strong resemblance to used car salesmen.
LOL, and they get many of us
I walked into the recruiting office in 1966.
Guy grinned and began rubbing his paws together in anticipation.
Fat leg E5 with a Europea svc badge or somekind.
I said "I want Airborne Infantry." Fucker all but slid out of his chair.
I got both, then SF.
In those days, NGs were considered draft dodgers by many of us.
Included SF NGs.
We had them with us in SFTG and they were the sorriest people alive.
Went home tomomma on the weekends and some even mocked us RAs.
Called us cannon fodder.
One guy I knew activated himself and went to VN and served as a SOG 10.
Things changed in the 90s and 2000s. A lot of them did their part and more.