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Team Sergeant
08-03-2016, 17:26
WOW never saw that coming.........:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I swear we live in a world full of idiots.




Bitcoin exchange loses more than $60 million in digital heist
By Mike Flacy
·Published August 03, 2016

After reporting the hack to authorities this week, Hong Kong-based Bitfinex halted all trading after discovering a theft of Bitcoin worth tens of millions. Detailed on the company's site, all digital deposits and withdrawals have been halted as well. While the company didn't publicly announce the total amount of stolen Bitcoin on the site, Bitfinex community director Zane Thackett estimated the loss at just under 120,000btc on Reddit earlier today.

At the current exchange rate, that puts the total loss at around $65 million. The company did announce that the theft was limited specifically to Bitcoin wallets and no other digital tokens currently traded on the site were impacted by the theft. While the authorities attempt to trace down the location of the stolen funds, Bitfinex will also have to figure out how hackers were able to circumvent the company's withdrawal limits.

Speaking about the loss, a Bitfinex representative posted: "We are investigating the breach to determine what happened, but we know that some of our users have had their bitcoins stolen….We are deeply concerned about this issue and we are committing every resource to try to resolve it. We ask for the community's patience as we unravel the causes and consequences of this breach."


cont:

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2016/08/03/bitcoin-exchange-loses-more-than-60-million-in-digital-heist.html

(1VB)compforce
08-03-2016, 18:57
WOW never saw that coming.........:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I swear we live in a world full of idiots.
...
While the authorities attempt to trace down the location of the stolen funds
...


yup, good luck with that

Flagg
08-04-2016, 02:11
WOW never saw that coming.........:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I swear we live in a world full of idiots.




Bitcoin exchange loses more than $60 million in digital heist
By Mike Flacy
·Published August 03, 2016

After reporting the hack to authorities this week, Hong Kong-based Bitfinex halted all trading after discovering a theft of Bitcoin worth tens of millions. Detailed on the company's site, all digital deposits and withdrawals have been halted as well. While the company didn't publicly announce the total amount of stolen Bitcoin on the site, Bitfinex community director Zane Thackett estimated the loss at just under 120,000btc on Reddit earlier today.

At the current exchange rate, that puts the total loss at around $65 million. The company did announce that the theft was limited specifically to Bitcoin wallets and no other digital tokens currently traded on the site were impacted by the theft. While the authorities attempt to trace down the location of the stolen funds, Bitfinex will also have to figure out how hackers were able to circumvent the company's withdrawal limits.

Speaking about the loss, a Bitfinex representative posted: "We are investigating the breach to determine what happened, but we know that some of our users have had their bitcoins stolen….We are deeply concerned about this issue and we are committing every resource to try to resolve it. We ask for the community's patience as we unravel the causes and consequences of this breach."


cont:

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2016/08/03/bitcoin-exchange-loses-more-than-60-million-in-digital-heist.html

I don't know how this theft specifically occurred, and I'm not a big fan of the Bitcoin experiment, but after the brief I received by a couple of major banking CIOs a few weeks back, blockchain is going to become an increasingly important and useful component to our future.

Potentially everything from house/car titles to the execution of legal contracts/agreements.

Team Sergeant
08-04-2016, 07:57
I don't know how this theft specifically occurred, and I'm not a big fan of the Bitcoin experiment, but after the brief I received by a couple of major banking CIOs a few weeks back, blockchain is going to become an increasingly important and useful component to our future.

Potentially everything from house/car titles to the execution of legal contracts/agreements.

My issue with bitcoins, where do they go when the electricity is turned off?

(Kinda like where does the white go when the snow melts?)

The only "future" I see for bitcoins is a brilliant crime future......ransoms, hostage situations, kidnappings, money laundering, drug dealings, etc etc etc

(1VB)compforce
08-04-2016, 08:03
My issue with bitcoins, where do they go when the electricity is turned off?

(Kinda like where does the white go when the snow melts?)

The only "future" I see for bitcoins is a brilliant crime future......ransoms, hostage situations, kidnappings, money laundering, drug dealings, etc etc etc

My issue is that they are being used as currency. Both for the reasons you mentioned and because they are built to be untraceable unless it is in your hand/computer.

Flagg
08-04-2016, 13:30
My issue with bitcoins, where do they go when the electricity is turned off?

(Kinda like where does the white go when the snow melts?)

The only "future" I see for bitcoins is a brilliant crime future......ransoms, hostage situations, kidnappings, money laundering, drug dealings, etc etc etc

If electricity goes out, as I understand it, it would have to be a global electricity loss to prevent access to blockchain(with your accessible portion of it).

If that happened, we would be globally doomed and it's little different than the vast majority of cashless money/credit transactions we make daily.

I totally agree with your point on Bitcoin, largely due to the fact that it is ultimately limited to 21 million and doesn't scale, hence my use of the word experiment.

What's most interesting about blockchain(the underlying tech of the Bitcoin experiment) is how it is so much harder to counterfeit/corrupt/conduct fraud.

When you compare credit card transaction and title search(property/cars) flow charts and vulnerabilities with blockchain there is simply no comparison.

Think of blockchain as a publicly available add-only spreadsheet accessible to all.

While the opportunity for crime certainly exists, so does the ability of sovereign states and law enforcement to monitor and use as evidence to develop cases for prosecution.

Think about the last time you bought or sold a house.

Think about the pile of paperwork and the rather significant cost of title searches.

Imagine if all house titles(and their histories) were uploaded to the blockchain ledger associated with a unique identifier (keeping you anonymous except to local/state/federal government) for each property.

Title searches and transfer costs would collapse, saving hard working folks a whole lot of money with far better security and transparency.

It could even potentially work for wills.

Imagine you have assets you want to leave to people/organisations exactly as you desire.

You could add logic (if, then statements) to your assets held in the blockchain that would remain until say a date is triggered. Potentially simplifying contractual agreements and reducing frictions from frivolous legal opposition.

Lots of potential, especially between individuals and organisations that cuts out the banks.

The banks are afraid.

And while governments can monitor for criminal/illegal behaviour they don't control blockchain, they just possess the resources to monitor all transactions.

It's very interesting and worth learning more about the underlying blockchain potential.

Daniel8
09-06-2017, 05:29
My issue with bitcoins, where do they go when the electricity is turned off?

(Kinda like where does the white go when the snow melts?)

The only "future" I see for bitcoins is a brilliant crime future......ransoms, hostage situations, kidnappings, money laundering, drug dealings, etc etc etc



I disagree with you. I think bitcoin has a good future. I want to try to make money on bitcoins. Many people are doing this. I want to learn more about all the pitfalls. I found the article https://bitcoinbestbuy.com/ , it describes everything in detail, however I would like to hear real feedback and advice. Read the article and maybe your opinion will change

By the way, maybe someone can help me here? Is someone already investing in this forum?

1stindoor
09-06-2017, 05:35
I disagree with you. I think bitcoin has a good future. I want to try to make money on bitcoins. Many people are doing this. I want to learn more about all the pitfalls. I found the article https://bitcoinbestbuy.com/ , it describes everything in detail, however I would like to hear real feedback and advice. Read the article and maybe your opinion will change

By the way, maybe someone can help me here? Is someone already investing in this forum?

You're in luck!...I can help you....do you know what else has a good future here?....folks that follow the rules on where they make their very first post.

Daniel8
09-06-2017, 05:52
You're in luck!...I can help you....do you know what else has a good future here?....folks that follow the rules on where they make their very first post.


I will be glad of your help. What information should I study before buying bitcoin?
Maybe you know?

1stindoor
09-06-2017, 05:54
I will be glad of your help. What information should I study before buying bitcoin?
Maybe you know?

You're a moron and a troll...go away. I'm done trying to help you find your way. At some point you'll be shown the door.

Pete
09-06-2017, 07:44
Daniel8 is getting real close.

Team Sergeant
09-06-2017, 12:55
I disagree with you. I think bitcoin has a good future. I want to try to make money on bitcoins. Many people are doing this. I want to learn more about all the pitfalls. I found the article https://bitcoinbestbuy.com/ , it describes everything in detail, however I would like to hear real feedback and advice. Read the article and maybe your opinion will change

By the way, maybe someone can help me here? Is someone already investing in this forum?


Bitcoin, uses, 5% legitimate, 95% criminal. Not too bright are you.

Flagg
09-06-2017, 14:03
Bitcoin, uses, 5% legitimate, 95% criminal. Not too bright are you.

It would certainly be true that most/possibly all Fortune 500 Bitcoin accounts were originally created in order to pay ransomware demands. \

But major banks are investing heavily in blockchain(the underlying tech of Bitcoin) and hiring like mad for blockchain SMEs.

Blockchain related tech boom over the next 20 years will ultimately be bigger than the ecommerce boom of the last 20 years in my opinion.

Young folks in particular who possess some understanding of inflation and tech investment risk haven't been wrong in placing a small slice of their limited liquid net worth into blockchain based cryptocurrencies as a hedge against crushing inflation.

It may seem more risky from a US dollar perspective, but form a global perspective, blockchain cryptocurrency is going to be huge.

Although in the last week the majors have taken a big hit due to China banning all ICOs(cryptocurrency coin offerings) until it can develop regulation.

China has arguably been the blockchain leader, but may have just given Silicon Valley an artificial advantage.

Ethereum, ranked behind Bitcoin in market cap but with more built in design potential has risen 50x in the last 12 months.

Quite a speculative bubble, but not unlike the original dot com boom of the 90s, nothing moves up in a straight line, there's lots of pain along the way until the long term party.

I can't tell you what will happen with cryptocurrencies in the short to medium term, but they will(along with the underlying blockchain) have a fundamental impact on all of us over the next 20 years with massive fortunes to be made.

Hardware wallets such as this one will help reduce risk:

https://allthingsdecentral.com/products/ledger-nano-s?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=39888134093&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrLuswa-R1gIVDQYqCh12Bg4DEAQYASABEgLqEfD_BwE

And I think multi factor digital authentication such as Estonia's E-residency program will also play a role in reducing risk:

https://e-resident.gov.ee

TJ11B
09-06-2017, 14:18
I think people might be better off investing in silver & gold or brass & lead IMHO.

bblhead672
09-06-2017, 14:34
I think people might be better off investing in silver & gold or brass & lead IMHO.
I agree

Trader of valuable things: "So what do you have to exchange for this food and water?"

Desperate survivor: "I have bitcoins."

Trader of valuable things: "Ha, ha, ha, ha. No, really what do you have of value? Get out of here."

PSM
09-06-2017, 15:13
I agree

Trader of valuable things: "So what do you have to exchange for this food and water?"

Desperate survivor: "I have bitcoins."

Trader of valuable things: "Ha, ha, ha, ha. No, really what do you have of value? Get out of here."

Or:

Trader of valuable things: "So what do you have to exchange for this food and water?"

Desperate survivor: "I have gold."

Trader of valuable things: "OK, I'll take it. All of it or you starve."

Or:

A neighbor that I don't like buys $10,000 worth of gold and I buy $10,000 worth of ammo. An hour after TSHTF, I have $10,000 worth of gold and $9,999.50 worth of ammo. ;)

Pat

Gruntastic11
09-06-2017, 15:25
Why would you want to "buy" into some form of crypto-currency that was designed to be almost untraceable?

I'm not buying into anything that you can apparently set a computer farm up to actually create the currency without spending a dime in it.

Wasn't the original intent of bitcoin to be used on the dark web for was Team Sergeant already put out?

GratefulCitizen
09-06-2017, 15:41
All forms of currency are just proxies for human time and labor.
Best to invest where you have the most influence.

1-your own health and skill sets
2-mutually beneficial relationships with trustworthy people

cbtengr
09-06-2017, 16:33
All forms of currency are just proxies for human time and labor.
Best to invest where you have the most influence.

1-your own health and skill sets
2-mutually beneficial relationships with trustworthy people

Sound advice, thank you Dr. Phil. :D

Peregrino
09-06-2017, 16:33
All forms of currency are just proxies for human time and labor.
Best to invest where you have the most influence.

1-your own health and skill sets
2-mutually beneficial relationships with trustworthy people

Ding! Ding! - And we have a winner.

Flagg
09-06-2017, 19:25
All forms of currency are just proxies for human time and labor.
Best to invest where you have the most influence.

1-your own health and skill sets
2-mutually beneficial relationships with trustworthy people

Agreed.

But when you are fortunate enough to possess good health, a broad set of flexible skills, and a robust personal network you have to put your hard earned money somewhere.

It would be imprudent to put the entirety in "insurance" for low-ish probability events.

Smart portfolio investment models incorporate at least a very small % of speculative investment. Cryptocurrency/blockchain is certainly worthy of serious consideration or at least long term monitoring.

I'm surprised there's so much resistance to cryptocurrencies and the underlying blockchain here with so many innovative/startegic thinkers in the house.

The transformational potential is truly staggering, as is the value creation/capture.

Observing this from an OCONUS/non-western filter, I would bet the proverbial farm that cryptocurrency/blockchain will be more transformative than antibiotics & electricity for the developing world.

There are certainly going to be speculative speed bumps along the way(we've seen that in the dot com implosion, but what rose from the ashes was quite real value creation/capture), but in 20 years blockchains are going to be fundamental foundations to many things we currently do.

Flagg
09-06-2017, 19:48
Why would you want to "buy" into some form of crypto-currency that was designed to be almost untraceable?

I'm not buying into anything that you can apparently set a computer farm up to actually create the currency without spending a dime in it.

Wasn't the original intent of bitcoin to be used on the dark web for was Team Sergeant already put out?

It's a bit of a misnomer to call Bitcoin untraceable.

While the Bitcoin owners are not identified, the entire Bitcoin ledger is transparent(therefor transactions are transparent) and stored globally to eliminate risk of ledger fraud.

Bitcoin is only anonymous in a very limited sense.

-----

Setting up a server farm to "farm' Bitcoins is done to provide the computational horsepower to crunch the ledger and conduct robust and secure(but transparent) transactions.

It takes a LOT of electricity to run a server farm and it's interesting to see Bitcoin farmers popping up in places like Mongolia with cheap electricity to make doing so a bit more viable.

Bitcoin farming is a closely run effort that unless electricity is free( or stolen) along with the high end gaming graphic cards(expensive) to crunch the numbers, I don't think anyone is getting rich off Bitcoin mining, its just enough to keep crunching the blockchain ledger numbers in a scaling distributed global network.

In a way it's quite a libertarian-ish system which has me scratching my head at the lack of interest here.

As to the original intent of Bitcoin, I reckon it's a pretty libertarian-ish effort to cut central bank power(and corruption) out of the loop.

To me, one of the strongest bits of evidence to support the development of cryptocurrencies/blockchains is because people like Jim Kramer at CNBC oppose it.

Jim Kramer and his ilk have a long history of treating small American Mom & Pop investors like suckers to be fleeced.

Bitcoin/cryptocurrencies/blockchains represent a significant threat to the existing financial gatekeepers and ticket punchers who stand to lose their enormous frictional transaction fees.

That's why traditional folks in banking/finance publically cast doubt on it so much, while they concurrently cast a wide net desperate to hire their own blockchain SMEs to try to retain their monopoly/franchise.

Maybe putting money into it isn't for you, but it's well worth a small slice of precious free reading time to stay current with it.

It is going to change the world.

If it doesn't I'll buy you a beer for wasting your time.

Joker
09-06-2017, 21:05
It's a bit of a misnomer to call Bitcoin untraceable.

Bitcoin is only anonymous in a very limited sense.

-----

Setting up a server farm to "farm' Bitcoins is done to provide the computational horsepower to crunch the ledger and conduct robust and secure(but transparent) transactions.



Zeroing in on these points.

BC can be completely untraceable. Don't use the blockchain. Pass the BC on a thumbdrive/medium.

Or

Buy some other virtual currency using your BC. Example, buy Ethereum from your known BC wallet (A). Keep it for an hour or so and then sell your Ethereum for BC and transfer it to your unknown BC wallet (B).

Too easy and no feds (US or other) can trace it. Use tumblers and mixers.

BC is not backed by any FIAT it is backed by an agreement of its worth by the two parties.

BC server farms, it is rumored in those circles that Russia, as a state, is starting to mine BC. They are running most of the farms now (in China, Eastern Europe, and US).

Flagg
09-06-2017, 21:57
I have no doubt about that. The question is will it change things for the better or worse?

I guess it depends on perspective.

I think from the little person's perspective, it has real potential to dramatically reduce the chances of a govenrment/central bank inflating away your savings.

It also has great potential to reduce current "franchise" frictional costs.

House titles, etc that require title searches will be a thing of the past in terms of their current huge costs, once in blockchain.

Same thing with smart contracts. The lawyered up wealthy may have reduced ability to beat up the small guy if smart contracts with attached funds are used acting as the ultimate arbiter.

I think it is negative US Dollar(but not necessarily negative US) very long term...as well as every other traditional currency...as other means of exchange options are developed and scale.

This will likely be a significant transfer of power from financial/monetary franchise holders into decentralised formats.

There will surely be losers.....lawyers and accountants are certaly going to have to adapt or die.

And there's also potential dark side stuff with blockchain with "dead man's switch" smart contracts.

Flagg
09-06-2017, 22:30
Zeroing in on these points.

BC can be completely untraceable. Don't use the blockchain. Pass the BC on a thumbdrive/medium.

Or

Buy some other virtual currency using your BC. Example, buy Ethereum from your known BC wallet (A). Keep it for an hour or so and then sell your Ethereum for BC and transfer it to your unknown BC wallet (B).

Too easy and no feds (US or other) can trace it. Use tumblers and mixers.

BC is not backed by any FIAT it is backed by an agreement of its worth by the two parties.

BC server farms, it is rumored in those circles that Russia, as a state, is starting to mine BC. They are running most of the farms now (in China, Eastern Europe, and US).

It's certainly not perfect in terms of mitigating illicit activity.

Humans are incredibly creative with avoiding "the man".

We've been cheating since we self organised into tribes.

But it does a far better job that most common perceptions of the "untraceability" of cryptocurrencies. It remind some me a bit of the Glock plastic gun in an X ray machine narrative pushed in the media.

I don't think it's sensitive to say that authorities have the ability to reconcile and attribute quite a bit.

In person to in person may have a gap(I'm no crypto SME, just an interested investor who lived and breathed tech for the last 20+ years), but...

I'd rather have bad guys using something with at least some degree of traceability/attribution, even if just crumbs rather than the whole loaf of bread to

What would analysts with access to a quantum computer prefer to roll up?

Bad guys using cryptocurrency or physical cash?

We've always had black economy activity since the tax man arrived.

Check out what India's doing in terms of its cash economy. It's pretty aggressive what they're doing to try and kill it(killing cash).

China's going with a requirement that all online comments are attributable shortly.

Estonia, the world's most digital centric country is going with an E-residency program with identity validation and secure/trusted legal signatures via a crypto card/device reader that is EU compliant.

I'm a big believer in internet freedom and anonymity.

But I also see the value of secure/trusted identity validation for online financial transactions and legal signatures.

If a nation state wants to mine Bitcoins or other cryptocurrencies I'm fine with it, because they can't fraudulently alter the blockchain ledger held on thousands of Global distributed systems.

In Venezuela with super cheap subsidised electricity but no food or freedom, people are reportedly mining for Bitcoin fractions to feed themselves, but it has sadly gotten onto the radar of regime LE who are targeting them for confiscation and mining themselves for the small cash flow trickles.

The common factor I see in cryptocurrency farming is converting free/lower than average cost electricity into Gflops.

Cryptocurrencies are certainly going to be volatile moving forward, just like every other investment sector as they've developed and splintered(tech/internet)

miclo18d
09-07-2017, 04:43
Currency is a generally accepted form of money, including coins and paper notes, which is issued by a government and circulated within an economy. Used as a medium of exchange for goods and services, currency is the basis for trade.

Some currencies, like cryptocurrencies​, bitcoin​, dogecoin​ and other online currencies and branded currencies are not tied to any country. Branded currencies, like airline and credit card points, or in-game credits are valued in relationship to the value of the products or services they’re tied to. Control over digital currencies is entirely decentralized, and the exchange rate of a digital currency can vary widely in a short period of time.


Currency has no value except that which someone will take it in trade for services or goods. You can't buy anything with Confederate bills or Iraqi Dinars with Saddam's face on it. What keeps Bitcoin from just vanishing? People gullible enough to trade with it.

Bat guano was an investment in the 19th century, you don't see people trading for that anymore.

Guano trading.
Cryptocurrency.
Penny stocks.
Blackjack.
Keno.
Shooting rocks in the alley.

Joker
09-07-2017, 07:01
Bad guys using cryptocurrency or physical cash?

Yes, both. We saw a bad guys' wallet with ~$98K in BC marked for travel. We have seen dope, guns, and people bought and sold using vc.

Team Sergeant
09-07-2017, 08:29
Yeah, I've read enough to understand bitcoin is a criminal's currency and nothing I want a part of.........

And Flagg spare me...... you cannot track something that only exists on the internet. (At least real currency has serial numbers. )

Flagg
09-07-2017, 16:19
Sweet as!

No worries fellas.

I'll turn it down from a 12 to a 2 and leave it be.

I'll swing back down the track to take my beating and/or buy a box of beers.

JGC2
09-07-2017, 17:18
Blockchain technology is the future and Bitcoin is only one of many options.

Cryptocurrency doesn't just exist on the internet. Decentralized servers and cold storage are actually more secure than any bank account in the event of a serious collapse because they aren't tied to a single corporation, government or insurance organization to redeem. Ethereum is a great example that incentivizes more owners by increasing its security as more people use it.

Bitcoin has increased in value 816% since this thread was started. If I'd have bought 100 of them in August 2016 for $56k, I'd be worth almost half a million dollars right now. If it's "criminal" to yield almost 300 times the return that stocks, bonds and savings packages shoot for then send the Pinkertons after me.

Currently Bitcoin is not nearly as useful as Visa or Mastercard, but to discredit the entire sector is a big mistake in my opinion. One of these tokens that is tied to a revolutionary tech will stick and change the way information is used across platforms worldwide.

Team Sergeant
09-08-2017, 12:08
Blockchain technology is the future and Bitcoin is only one of many options.

Cryptocurrency doesn't just exist on the internet. Decentralized servers and cold storage are actually more secure than any bank account in the event of a serious collapse because they aren't tied to a single corporation, government or insurance organization to redeem. Ethereum is a great example that incentivizes more owners by increasing its security as more people use it.

Bitcoin has increased in value 816% since this thread was started. If I'd have bought 100 of them in August 2016 for $56k, I'd be worth almost half a million dollars right now. If it's "criminal" to yield almost 300 times the return that stocks, bonds and savings packages shoot for then send the Pinkertons after me.

Currently Bitcoin is not nearly as useful as Visa or Mastercard, but to discredit the entire sector is a big mistake in my opinion. One of these tokens that is tied to a revolutionary tech will stick and change the way information is used across platforms worldwide.


And you could trade that for gold where? :munchin

Gruntastic11
09-08-2017, 12:59
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/08/bitcoins-price-tanks-after-report-china-plans-further-crackdown.html

Well, China is about to ban and shutdown bitcoin exchanges. drop 7.34%

Looks like it will make a recovery though. I could see more countries following suit.

My question is, what happens to the valuation of bitcoin if for some reason the US Dollar or Euro tanks?

Is it backed by the gold of the various currencies or just the shear amount of "data" of people owning bitcoin?

bblhead672
09-08-2017, 13:38
And you could trade that for gold where? :munchin

Exactly what I was thinking. So if have a half million dollars in bitcoins is there someone willing to exchange them for other currency such as gold, silver, platinum, US dollars?

JGC2
09-09-2017, 07:19
Exactly what I was thinking. So if have a half million dollars in bitcoins is there someone willing to exchange them for other currency such as gold, silver, platinum, US dollars?

The same way you would convert any other currency, through an exchange. There are hundreds of options between online exchanges and apps, and from there you can take your USD and buy gold, silver, or whatever.

The question is, why would you want to do that? Bitcoin is steadily increasing in value whereas gold is not. It would only be in your best interest to exchange it if you thought its growth was near its apex.

Team Sergeant
09-09-2017, 09:42
China is about to end all cryptocurrency exchanges in their country and bitcoin is taking a hit.

I'll stick with trading in the tangible markets. Already lived through the dotcom insanity and I see bitcoin the same way. I think many are investing in bitcoin hoping it survives.

JGC2
09-09-2017, 18:41
China is about to end all cryptocurrency exchanges in their country and bitcoin is taking a hit.

I'll stick with trading in the tangible markets. Already lived through the dotcom insanity and I see bitcoin the same way. I think many are investing in bitcoin hoping it survives.

I don't think we're gonna agree on this one. In terms of technology the dotcom insanity created never before seen wealth and people are still getting rich off of developments that came from it.

There are others on this site that know much more about cryptocurrency than me, but it's been very good to me thus far. Yes, China's recent announcement matters but it doesn't stop blockchain from filling a significant global market need.

Like I said, Bitcoin is only one of hundreds of available tech options to invest in. Many teams have learned from Satoshi's mistakes and many others are making new ones. Nonetheless a savvy investor has a much higher profit ceiling with blockchain than has ever been possible with precious metals, which is another sector I believe in despite my endorsement of blockchain here.

Team Sergeant
09-12-2017, 13:24
:munchin



JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon says bitcoin is a fraud that will eventually blow up

•"It's worse than tulip bulbs. It won't end well. Someone is going to get killed," Dimon said.
•Bitcoin fell to trade around its session lows after Dimon's comments.
•Dimon's criticism comes at a time when some well-known figures on Wall Street are starting to embrace the cryptocurrency.

Fred Imbert | @foimbert
Published 2 Hours Ago | Updated 27 Mins Ago


JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon took a shot at bitcoin, saying the cryptocurrency "is a fraud."

"It's worse than tulip bulbs. It won't end well. Someone is going to get killed," Dimon said at a banking industry conference organized by Barclays. "Currencies have legal support. It will blow up."

Dimon also said he'd "fire in a second" any JPMorgan trader who was trading bitcoin, noting two reasons: "It's against our rules and they are stupid."


Bitcoin fell to its session lows after Dimon's comments. As of 3:01 p.m. in New York, bitcoin traded at $4,106.23, down 2 percent.

Dimon's criticism comes at a time when some of the most well-known figures on Wall Street are starting to embrace the cryptocurrency. Fundstrat's Tom Lee said he sees bitcoin surging to $6,000 next year and value investor Bill Miller reportedly owns bitcoin.

Even Dimon's own bank, JPMorgan, has reportedly begun a trial project using blockchain as it tries to cut trading costs. Blockchain is the technology behind bitcoin.

Bitcoin has already soared 315 percent this year.

Earlier on Tuesday, Dimon warned about further declines in trading revenue for the banking giant.

Dimon said third-quarter trading revenue will drop about 20 percent on a year-over-year basis. Dimon also said the bank may not give intra-quarter guidance in the future.

JPMorgan's stock fell off its session highs on the comments, but remained up 1.4 percent on the day.


https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/12/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-raises-flag-on-trading-revenue-sees-20-percent-fall-for-the-third-quarter.html

JGC2
09-12-2017, 14:15
As Roger Ver has made clear, Bitcoin's long term value is dependent on its utility for purchases. In my opinion, it's doomed eventually because its transactions take way too long to process and traditional purchasing methods are still more convenient in almost every way.

Still doesn't mean you can't ride it for a while until a replacement emerges and definitely doesn't mean you should ignore the other tokens out there. Blockchain tech is the future, not Bitcoin. Ethereum isn't going anywhere any time soon, and other tokens will hit and stick. Being able to analyze and predict which ones will make alot of people alot of money in the near future.

Flagg
09-12-2017, 22:19
As Roger Ver has made clear, Bitcoin's long term value is dependent on its utility for purchases. In my opinion, it's doomed eventually because its transactions take way too long to process and traditional purchasing methods are still more convenient in almost every way.

Still doesn't mean you can't ride it for a while until a replacement emerges and definitely doesn't mean you should ignore the other tokens out there. Blockchain tech is the future, not Bitcoin. Ethereum isn't going anywhere any time soon, and other tokens will hit and stick. Being able to analyze and predict which ones will make alot of people alot of money in the near future.

I don't know if I would call Bitcoin as much "doomed" as I would call it a serendipitous experiment that can't scale with the demand. A victim of its success.

But I would agree, that it is extremely unlikely to be the last crytocoin standing.

Disclosure: I'm a fan of Ethereum and NEO, but not Bitcoin

A decent analog to Bitcoin might be Mosaic/Netscape Navigator from 20-25 years ago.

Of course JP Morgan will be aggressively trying to cut Bitcoin(et al) off at the knees, because cryptocurrencies and the underlying blockchain and smart contracts are a disruptive threat to destroying their income streams and financial franchises in the very long term.

In fact, Damon/JP Morgan are in direct competition with Bitcoin using a version of Ethereum called Quorum.

What's interesting is that Bitcoin was released right in the eye of the GFC storm in Jan, 2009. The same GFC where JP Morgan required a massive public bailout to survive, and where it had just paid $2 billion X3 in fines for its culpability in Enron, Worldcom, and Madoff fraud.

JP Morgan credibility risk and bias is considerable, to be diplomatic.

JamesIkanov
09-12-2017, 22:29
If the concept ever reaches such a point, it would be interesting to see blockchain currency values correlated directly to an amount of actual measurable "work", such as data processing, video rendering, or some other task that is both useful and takes some actual computing ability. In a strictly conceptual sense, a "work" standard is basically what all currency runs on nowadays anyway.


That said, the value of bitcoin is whatever the hell people are willing to pay for it. Not a whole lot different than any of the other wacky crap people are willing to pay lots and lots of money for. Just look at baseball cards, signed guitar picks, celebrity snot rags.....


anyway, FWIW, USD 100 bills have been the blackmarket currency of choice for decades and will likely continue to be... unless the 500 Euro note overtakes it. Bitcoin is small potatoes on that one.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/-100-bills-make-up-80-of-all-us-currency-but-why/265518/

PSM
09-12-2017, 22:38
North Korean hackers targeting bitcoins to fund Kim Jong Un, report says: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/09/12/north-korean-hackers-targeting-bitcoins-to-fund-kim-jong-un-report-says.html

JGC2
09-13-2017, 07:26
What's interesting is that Bitcoin was released right in the eye of the GFC storm in Jan, 2009. The same GFC where JP Morgan required a massive public bailout to survive, and where it had just paid $2 billion X3 in fines for its culpability in Enron, Worldcom, and Madoff fraud.

JP Morgan credibility risk and bias is considerable, to be diplomatic.

Yeah, he's been getting roasted online for this, and as many have pointed out probably half his executives own Bitcoin. I don't know why he's so salty - the Fed will never bail out Bitcoin the way it continually has JP Morgan over the last 9 years.

I agree on ETH and NEO. I also like the pending DOVU concept backed by Jaguar. For the free market capitalists out there, it's the first blockchain concept that has prioritized defining data owners, data producers, and data consumers in the correct manner.

Box
09-13-2017, 09:11
Bitcoin is like any other gamble... its only worth what people want it to be worth.

I see it on the same level as baseball cards.
You can go on-line and find Rickey Henderson rookie cards being offered for as much as 14,000 dollars or as little as 7 bucks and to the unaided eye they look identical.
If you got one in 1980 it cost you 25 cents and you got 14 other cards and a piece of gum.

Then you can take that 14,007 dollars worth of Topps baseball cards into the bank and they will give you nothing more than a funny look when you try to cash them in.
Bit coin is the same type of money as Topps baseball cards - only valuable to the people that trade it.

Fold a 100 dollar bill in half... it is still worth 100 dollars.
Fold a 14,000 Rickey Henderson rookie card in half, it loses approximately 13,999.50 of its value.
...but people still trade baseball cards as though it is real money and they are speculating on the stock market.

That doesn't mean these things are bad investments... it just means that they are not legal tender for all debts public and private.

Buy 'em, sell 'em, tade 'em with your friends....

Joker
09-13-2017, 09:42
Bitcoin is like any other gamble... its only worth what people want it to be worth.

I see it on the same level as baseball cards.
You can go on-line and find Rickey Henderson rookie cards being offered for as much as 14,000 dollars or as little as 7 bucks and to the unaided eye they look identical.
If you got one in 1980 it cost you 25 cents and you got 14 other cards and a piece of gum.

Then you can take that 14,007 dollars worth of Topps baseball cards into the bank and they will give you nothing more than a funny look when you try to cash them in.
Bit coin is the same type of money as Topps baseball cards - only valuable to the people that trade it.

Fold a 100 dollar bill in half... it is still worth 100 dollars.
Fold a 14,000 Rickey Henderson rookie card in half, it loses approximately 13,999.50 of its value.
...but people still trade baseball cards as though it is real money and they are speculating on the stock market.

That doesn't mean these things are bad investments... it just means that they are not legal tender for all debts public and private.

Buy 'em, sell 'em, tade 'em with your friends....

Yes, but you cannot put the bitcoin on your bicycle with a clothespin and have an instant motorcycle... :D

JGC2
09-13-2017, 09:43
Yeah, the same should be said for any currency. Despite the gubment saying USD is legal tender, it only maintains its value as such as long as people agree it should.

I would agree with your baseball card analogy more if blockchain weren't a technology first and a "currency" second. Nothing about a Rickey Henderson card will change the way I get my groceries, fill my gas tank, or send data from point A to point B. Blockchain will change all those as well as thousands of other monotonous daily tasks.

Interestingly, Somaliland is making advances in blockchain-backed peer to peer payments. They collectively stopped recognizing the shilling as legal tender and started using phone-based payment services like Zaad and e-Habab. It's working because it's easy and convenient.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170912-the-surprising-place-where-cash-is-going-extinct

Flagg
09-13-2017, 13:47
Yeah, he's been getting roasted online for this, and as many have pointed out probably half his executives own Bitcoin. I don't know why he's so salty - the Fed will never bail out Bitcoin the way it continually has JP Morgan over the last 9 years.

I agree on ETH and NEO. I also like the pending DOVU concept backed by Jaguar. For the free market capitalists out there, it's the first blockchain concept that has prioritized defining data owners, data producers, and data consumers in the correct manner.

I'll be sure to check out DOVU/Jaguar.

I'm meeting with a large bank CIO tonight and a cryptocurrency exchange marketplace founder next week. I'll report back with anything interesting.

Flagg
09-13-2017, 13:53
Bitcoin is like any other gamble... its only worth what people want it to be worth.

I see it on the same level as baseball cards.
You can go on-line and find Rickey Henderson rookie cards being offered for as much as 14,000 dollars or as little as 7 bucks and to the unaided eye they look identical.
If you got one in 1980 it cost you 25 cents and you got 14 other cards and a piece of gum.

Then you can take that 14,007 dollars worth of Topps baseball cards into the bank and they will give you nothing more than a funny look when you try to cash them in.
Bit coin is the same type of money as Topps baseball cards - only valuable to the people that trade it.

Fold a 100 dollar bill in half... it is still worth 100 dollars.
Fold a 14,000 Rickey Henderson rookie card in half, it loses approximately 13,999.50 of its value.
...but people still trade baseball cards as though it is real money and they are speculating on the stock market.

That doesn't mean these things are bad investments... it just means that they are not legal tender for all debts public and private.

Buy 'em, sell 'em, tade 'em with your friends....

I think your analogy is valid if you add two things:

1) Mickey Mantle and Hank Aaron rookie cards are still being created via G Flop drip feed

2) That $100 bill can only buy a fraction of the energy and housing than it did a generation ago.

Purchasing power of the means of exchange is worth considering.

US Dollar is stable, but in long term decline(globally)

Cryptocurrencies are unstable and highly volatile but trending up in purchasing power.

I take the diplomatic approach and say I like both, vast majority in cash, small minority % in crypto.

Together and in a basket they could make a potentially very effective liquid hedge.

Flagg
09-13-2017, 13:57
Yeah, the same should be said for any currency. Despite the gubment saying USD is legal tender, it only maintains its value as such as long as people agree it should.

I would agree with your baseball card analogy more if blockchain weren't a technology first and a "currency" second. Nothing about a Rickey Henderson card will change the way I get my groceries, fill my gas tank, or send data from point A to point B. Blockchain will change all those as well as thousands of other monotonous daily tasks.

Interestingly, Somaliland is making advances in blockchain-backed peer to peer payments. They collectively stopped recognizing the shilling as legal tender and started using phone-based payment services like Zaad and e-Habab. It's working because it's easy and convenient.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170912-the-surprising-place-where-cash-is-going-extinct

That's what I think makes this different.

Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, etc all the early gen internet brand names are mostly western constructs.

Blockchain will unlock the developing world.

In the Caribbean wherever regional banks are pulling out, blockchain based cryptocurrency is seeing staggering month over month growth north of 30%.

That's why I'm liking Ethereum and NEO and any others that gain strong traction in the developing world. Like Digicell for mobile coms.

cbtengr
09-13-2017, 14:10
Bitcoin is like any other gamble... its only worth what people want it to be worth.

I see it on the same level as baseball cards.
You can go on-line and find Rickey Henderson rookie cards being offered for as much as 14,000 dollars or as little as 7 bucks and to the unaided eye they look identical.
If you got one in 1980 it cost you 25 cents and you got 14 other cards and a piece of gum.

Then you can take that 14,007 dollars worth of Topps baseball cards into the bank and they will give you nothing more than a funny look when you try to cash them in.
Bit coin is the same type of money as Topps baseball cards - only valuable to the people that trade it.

Fold a 100 dollar bill in half... it is still worth 100 dollars.
Fold a 14,000 Rickey Henderson rookie card in half, it loses approximately 13,999.50 of its value.
...but people still trade baseball cards as though it is real money and they are speculating on the stock market.

That doesn't mean these things are bad investments... it just means that they are not legal tender for all debts public and private.

Buy 'em, sell 'em, tade 'em with your friends....

A great analogy Box.

Mustang Man
09-13-2017, 15:21
If the CEO of big banks which should have never been bailed, plus the Federal Reseve, China and other elitists are against bit coin then I'm for them. What do they all have in common? They hate competetion. Bit Coin is a thorn in their side and I love it.

Also friendly reminder gold has only social value as well. What the heck can anyone do with gold other than look pretty and show off with it. I need a conductor I'll get copper, I need to make weapons, I'll use steel ect. ect.

JGC2
09-13-2017, 16:18
If the CEO of big banks which should have never been bailed, plus the Federal Reseve, China and other elitists are against bit coin then I'm for them. What do they all have in common? They hate competetion. Bit Coin is a thorn in their side and I love it.

Also friendly reminder gold has only social value as well. What the heck can anyone do with gold other than look pretty and show off with it. I need a conductor I'll get copper, I need to make weapons, I'll use steel ect. ect.

Exactly.

JGC2
12-07-2017, 09:30
Bitcoin at $17,000 today :munchin

miclo18d
01-03-2018, 07:02
Very volatile, you’ve got to be careful! You never know what’s going to affect the market! Today: 14805.00 US Dollar

FORT JACKSON, S.C. – Bitcoin futures today suffered from heightened volatility due to rumors of a possible two-day extension of MRE rations, soldiers on a field exercise reported.

“I thought that trading my jalapeño cheese for .00000387 Bitcoin was a good choice three days ago,” said Pfc. Josh Warner. “But now that there are rumors that we’ll have MREs instead of mermites tomorrow and the end of FIELDEX BBQ is cancelled because of a DUI from another unit, I’m realizing that the value of that MRE cheese would have tripled if I held onto it until tomorrow.”

The meteoric rise of cryptocurrencies has been difficult to study, many economists say, because of the volatile nature of Bitcoin and periodic illiquidity, especially when held in contrast to jalapeno cheese.

Though few privates at the field op had invested in Bitcoin, those who had saw the currency as “a sure bet.”

“Bitcoin is a smart, solid, investment,” said barracks broker Spc. Terry Copswell. “I recommend an investment portfolio heavy in rims, Ford Mustangs, Bitcoin, and starting your own multi-level marketing franchise. I think Warner made a good move. There’s always more MRE cheese out there somewhere, but who knows if you’ll be able to get into Bitcoin later.”

At the time of reporting, a light, demoralizing rain had begun to fall, and jalapeno cheese had soared to a stunning .0028 bitcoin, six pieces of snack bread, or two packages of skittles.

Futures on Copenhagen were unavailable, as supply had bottomed out.

PSM
01-03-2018, 11:38
[mermites]

Do they still use those? :confused:

1stindoor
01-03-2018, 11:53
hahaha....Copenhagen will always be a valuable commodity in the field. Given the Christmas season that just ended...what were the trading values looking like for Soldiers getting off of Staff Duty on Christmas?

Penn
04-25-2018, 14:38
Interesting article that explains blockchains impact on the future of nation states reliance on hard currency ending.

Paper https://ssrn.com/abstract=3059330 was published in the January issue of Risk Magazine &...

Joker
04-25-2018, 19:48
I own some BC as I want to know how it is mined, stored, moved, and used.

I agree with this take completely.

Bitcoin is the greatest scam in history (https://www.recode.net/2018/4/24/17275202/bitcoin-scam-cryptocurrency-mining-pump-dump-fraud-ico-value)

It’s a colossal pump-and-dump scheme, the likes of which the world has never seen.

PSM
04-25-2018, 20:17
I own some BC as I want to know how it is mined, stored, moved, and used.

I agree with this take completely.

Bitcoin is the greatest scam in history (https://www.recode.net/2018/4/24/17275202/bitcoin-scam-cryptocurrency-mining-pump-dump-fraud-ico-value)

It’s a colossal pump-and-dump scheme, the likes of which the world has never seen.

My son bought $100 worth before he deployed because a sports streaming service he subscribed to only took bitcoin. It's worth a couple of thousand now. He hasn't been seduced. He's using it like a "kitchen garden" and is letting that first small investment pay for everything downstream. He's more frugal than we are. :D

Penn
01-09-2021, 09:26
All arguments aside as to the validity of BC ability to displace nation states fiat currency, its had quite a track since these threads began.

That said, the system has evolved and continues its growth. My focus is the transaction process, the miners, I own most of those, but I do not own any BC, but would like to explore how that is done. To that end have downloaded the apps for COINiD and the BC companies, but unable to buy, because I don’t understand the real time transfer process of how to pay and then protect your asset.

What am I missing?
Thank you in advance for your time.

PSM
01-09-2021, 11:48
My comment above yours, Penn, was over 2 years ago. He was here for Christmas and I asked him if he still had any. He'd forgotten about it and said he had $25 left. He checked and it's now worth $2500.

Jean
02-02-2021, 15:14
Bitcoin at $17,000 today :munchin

Who would have thought then back in 2017 that in 4 years BTC would be worth 41k? :lifter
Adepts of Elliott Wave theory say that we will witness 90k+ this year. Time will tell :)