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Stiletto11
01-22-2016, 19:30
I just ordered a McMillan A5 stock for an upgrade on my 700P (308 Win). I ordered it fully inletted. McMillan claims it doesn't have to be bedded but some claim to maximize accuracy it should be. Any thoughts? Caveat Emptor, I am not shooting in competition or at least not yet. Thanks in advance.

Brush Okie
01-22-2016, 20:46
Get a torque wrench and torque it the same every time. BTW get one for gun ie INCH pounds NOT foot pounds. Put it in the stock and shoot it. See how it does.

Are you hand loading or using match ammo? Federal Gold medal match is a good baseline even if you hand load comaper it against the federal.

If you dont hand load start, but learn to do it right. I recommend Lapua brass.

Stiletto11
01-23-2016, 11:39
I will be hand loading using Lapua brass, 168gr SMK/175gr SMK, Fed Primers and 4064 loaded 10% less than max load to start and working up from there. I will start at 0020 off the lands hoping go get 1/2 MOA at 100yds. I guess if McMillan says bedding not required they are the experts. I'll probably burn the barrel out before bedding is needed if at all.

Brush Okie
01-23-2016, 11:43
If you are not getting the results you want you can always bed later. 1/2 MOA is not as common as many think

Stiletto11
01-23-2016, 11:48
Yeah, understood, it's the guy behind the rifle as well. A quality rifle out of the box should be able to shoot 1MOA.

mark46th
01-23-2016, 12:01
Did you change out the trigger?

Stiletto11
01-23-2016, 16:16
I sent it to Robar and they worked on it. It's at 2lb

koz
01-23-2016, 16:21
As far as torque wrenches, take a look at the Borka Tools adjustable. Great for shop and field use. It been proven to be accurate for some ridiculous amount of uses and still be accurate. www.shooterstools.com/Pages/ATD/atdkits.html


When guys say they have a 1/2MOA gun, they usually mean a singular 3 shot group. To give a true representation of you, your gun, your load, etc.. do a 5 shot group and put 30rds on one target. (6 - 5r groups). Most guys find out that 1MOA is pretty good under this test and .75 to .50MOA is excellent. Another good test is to get a series of 1/2" Dots (typically you can 20+ on a on a piece of paper) and shoot one round on each circle.

koz
01-23-2016, 16:23
This was posted by Kelly McMillan on another forum re:bedding a rifle.

There are a couple of different issues being discussed here, and I would like to add something if I might. I think I have a unique perspective on both.

My guess would be 70% of the stocks we sell never get bedded. To this group I am sure the percentage is much lower be generally long range shooter want to get everything possible out of their rifle when it comes to accuracy. Unless you are buying a custom shop rifle or one that uses the squirt in thermoset bedding production rifles are not bedded. With plastic stocks the recoil lug is molded in, wood stocks they are machined in. In either case we can do as good or better a job of inletting the stocks than the mass producers. So, we say, your rifle should shoot as well or better than it did with the factory stock without bedding it, but, if you want the very best accuracy from your rifle, you need to glass bed it. It may not improve the accuracy much because we find that with most production barreled action and a McMillan stock, you can get very close to the accuracy potential without bedding, but you will never know how much that improvement is going to be until you bed it. A good clue is if your rifle is shooting 1 moa your improvement is likely to be very little. Very few productions rifle will shoot a lot better than that even if the shooter can. Any larger groups than an inch can give you hope that the bedding will make a bigger difference.

Now to the really important part, pillar bedding. I think I can speak to this issue because my father, Gale McMillan was the originator of the practice. It came out of necessity and had nothing to do with accuracy. In the early days of fiberglass stocks, both Brown Precision Stocks (the originator) and McMillan stocks were made using the lightest material we could find. As a result both had a similar problem. Brown used polyurethane foam to blow out the cloth against the mold and because they molded their receiver area and barrel channels in, there was foam under the action. We used a very light filler made of epoxy resin and micro balloons. With both stocks you could crush the material between the receiver and the trigger guard by tightening the guards screws. The more you tightened the more the receiver would move and the more your shots would wander.
To solve this problem my father would drill the guard screw holes out to 3/8". He would wax (Johnson's Paste wax! Still the best mold release on the market when it comes to bedding) the screws up and then let the bedding material fill in the hole around the screws during the bedding process. BTW he used Duro Steel filled Epoxy until they added concrete to the mixture for some unknow reason and it no longer was suitable. In an effort to find a substitute, a friend and customer who own a Marine Supply and Boat store told him about Marine Tex. he was also the first to use Marine Tex for bedding........back to the point, afterr the bedding material set, he would drill the holes out just slightly bigger than the guard screws so the pillars were made of bedding material but they were dense enough to stop the receiver area of the stock from compressing.
Eventually we found aluminum pillars to be easier as just as effective so we switched. Word spreads fast in bench rest community and some everyone was pillar bedding.
Today we refer to it as state of the art. But, technology and materials have changed over the years and all but our EDGE Tech (we actually make them with aluminum pillars)and bench rest stocks (Gale was th first to glue a benchrest action into a rifle and toady a great number of benchrest rifles are still built that way)have a dense enough material in the action area that using normal torque settings on the guard screws the material will not compress at all. The Marines tested the stocks we made for them under 100 ft lbs of torque and the got less than .0001 compression on the receiver area. Of course we built those stocks to be Marine proof, we recommend 45-50 in lbs on the guard screws.
One last thing, pillars do one thing and one thing only, stop compression. They don't increase accuracy or reliability and they don't allow you to remove and replace the barreled action any more often without degradation of the bedding. If a McMillan stock is bedded properly using a good compound, like Marine Tex, pillars are unnecessary. So why do we use them? Because it's state of the art, and that is the way people expect it to be done.

Stiletto11
01-23-2016, 20:33
Thanks for the info, sounds like I should be happy with 1 MOA. I'm assuming every shot is a cold bore shot using mean radius.