View Full Version : Heads-up to CCW holders in Virginia and elsewhere
Ret10Echo
12-22-2015, 11:35
Heads up to those in and around the mid-Atlantic. Things just became more complex.
Be safe
RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Virginia will no longer recognize concealed handgun
permits from more than two dozen states that have less stringent laws.
Attorney General Mark Herring said Tuesday that the state will revoke its reciprocity agreement with
25 states after a review found that their permit requirements are weaker than Virginia’s. The change
takes effect Feb. 1.
Herring says those states hand out permits to people who are barred from getting one under Virginia
law, including fugitives, convicted stalkers and drug dealers. He says it’s a common sense step that
will help keep concealed weapons out of the hands of dangerous and irresponsible people.
Full story from WTOP here (http://wtop.com/virginia/2015/12/virginia-revokes-handgun-permit-agreement-with-25-states/)
The CCW fracas is another can of worms that would disappear with a non-rino, non-dem POTUS.
I'm hoping concealed carry becomes a requirement in a couple years. ;)
The Reaper
12-22-2015, 13:21
Sucks to have a NC CCW now.
I guess we have to lock them up when passing through the garden spots of VA.
God forbid that the 99.9% of NC CCW holders should exercise their 2A rights to prevent being a victim of some felonious Virginian.
TR
So, if I'm reading this right ...
He says it’s a common sense step that will help keep concealed weapons out of the hands of dangerous and irresponsible people.
... Mr. Herring is saying that people in other states, who legally have a CCW, issued by their State and or Sheriff's Dept. are "dangerous and irresponsible people."
Am I reading that correctly? :munchin
ha....
Virginia
pfftt........ i'll find another state to visit
Badger52
12-22-2015, 19:15
So, if I'm reading this right ...
... Mr. Herring is saying that people in other states, who legally have a CCW, issued by their State and or Sheriff's Dept. are "dangerous and irresponsible people."
Am I reading that correctly? :munchin
Much more; the "authoritahs" in that state are incompetent, uncaring, negligent and, oh btw, ultimately he wants you disarmed anyway. But you know that.
Everytime one of those turds says "common sense" I want to bitch-slap them.
DanHeller88
12-23-2015, 01:08
Much more; the "authoritahs" in that state are incompetent, uncaring, negligent and, oh btw, ultimately he wants you disarmed anyway. But you know that.
Everytime one of those turds says "common sense" I want to bitch-slap them.
It is amazing how "common sense" can mean such drastically different things apparently. I was wrong for all these years, apparently criminalizing someone for following the law and practicing their rights is "common sense".
If I was the governor of one of the "shamed" states, I would not accept the vehicle registration or drivers licenses of Virginia in my state. If it was a bordering state I would impose a transport tax of double the resale value of any products transporting my state via road, rail, or waterways.
VA's not even a state. I've been circumnavigating that place for decades. Reminds me of Vermont, for some reason.
Red Flag 1
12-23-2015, 15:51
I have to wonder if other states will respond in kind to our Gov's bonehead stunt?
Old Dog New Trick
12-24-2015, 11:01
Absurd, I can assure you in Washington (the state not the cesspool in Virginia) you have to pass an FBI fingerprint and NICS background check and pay $50 (+$10 for fingerprints) to get a state issued CPL.
I know of no known "criminals, convicted people, or convicted drug dealers" who would bother to subject themselves to such scrutiny and associated costs; To be turned down.
Joker- I love your idea, too bad the governors of implicated states don't have the balls to say your drivers license and vehicle registration is simply not good here. Too many drunks, drug users and careless drivers in Virginia.
Divemaster
12-24-2015, 13:28
Absurd, I can assure you in Washington (the state not the cesspool in Virginia) you have to pass an FBI fingerprint and NICS background check and pay $50 (+$10 for fingerprints) to get a state issued CPL.
I know of no known "criminals, convicted people, or convicted drug dealers" who would bother to subject themselves to such scrutiny and associated costs; To be turned down.
However, the reason the Washington permit has reciprocity in so few states is because we have absolutely no training requirement. Any state that requires some training does not recognize the WA permit.
Idaho* North Dakota*** Kansas Ohio Louisiana Oklahoma Michigan** Tennessee North Carolina Utah
* Idaho Enhanced Permit only. ** This states does not recognize non-resident concealed pistol licenses issued by Washington state. *** Class 1 ND permits only.
(http://www.atg.wa.gov/concealed-weapon-reciprocity)
One way (legally) around this is to obtain CCW's from multiple states. I went through http://www.fridayharborgunrunners.com/ and took their class that meets the requirements for Arizona, Utah, and Oregon. Oregon recognizes no other state's CCW, while the other two have reciprocity with several states. Having permits from WA, OR, AZ, and UT allows a person to carry in over 30 states.
Old Dog New Trick
12-24-2015, 13:58
However, the reason the Washington permit has reciprocity in so few states is because we have absolutely no training requirement. Any state that requires some training does not recognize the WA permit.
One way (legally) around this is to obtain CCW's from multiple states. I went through http://www.fridayharborgunrunners.com/ and took their class that meets the requirements for Arizona, Utah, and Oregon. Oregon recognizes no other state's CCW, while the other two have reciprocity with several states. Having permits from WA, OR, AZ, and UT allows a person to carry in over 30 states.
:D yeah I'm just being pernicious. ;)
Nowhere in the BOR does it state one has to have training to exercise a right. Only the states have used their unconstitutional authority to impose a special tax on the law abiding citizens and now without equal representation.
It's time to come up with a National card for concealed carry and the only requirement should be that you are not "prevented" from possession/use/carriage due to a criminal conviction or mental disorder of a magnitude that you are unfit and a danger to self or others.
Too many federally unconstitutional state rules and laws make the "Privileges and Immunities Clause" and the 10A invalid. Any "license or permit" issued in one state should have to be honored in all states.
Badger52
12-24-2015, 14:38
Nowhere in the BOR does it state one has to have training to exercise a right. Only the states have used their unconstitutional authority to impose a special tax on the law abiding citizens and now without equal representation. “No state shall convert a liberty into a license, and charge a fee therefore.” (Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105)
“If the State converts a right (liberty) into a privilege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right (liberty) with impunity.” (Shuttlesworth v. City of Birmingham, Alabama, 373 U.S. 262)
Well, that (both SCOTUS decisions) should've ended the lesson yet here we are.
Tipping point not reached... yet.
Old Dog New Trick
12-24-2015, 14:58
Tipping Points not reached yet...
As a side note: on 01/01/2016 the standard drivers license for five states will not get you on an airplane.
Sucks to be one of 68% of Americans who won't have a valid form of picture ID to travel via air.
Maybe they should put pictures on CCW licenses. (I realize most do but some don't.)
Tipping Points not reached yet...
As a side note: on 01/01/2016 the standard drivers license for five states will not get you on an airplane.
Sucks to be one of 68% of Americans who won't have a valid form of picture ID to travel via air.
Maybe they should put pictures on CCW licenses. (I realize most do but some don't.)
My state still has not pulled its head out of its 4th point of contact yet and I will be laughing my ass off when they will not be allowed into any federal bldg, base or airport. They think that they can keep issuing illegals DL's and the fed will just continue to let it go. I am praying that the Obama administration holds to their guns on this one....:munchin
However, the reason the Washington permit has reciprocity in so few states is because we have absolutely no training requirement. Any state that requires some training does not recognize the WA permit.....
I'll have to disagree with you, just a bit.
Missouri, which does have a 'training' and 'marksmanship' requirement, if you can call it that (if somebody can't pass, they really don't need to be carrying a gun) recognizes all CC permits, resident and non-resident.
Divemaster
12-25-2015, 20:55
I'll have to disagree with you, just a bit.
Missouri, which does have a 'training' and 'marksmanship' requirement, if you can call it that (if somebody can't pass, they really don't need to be carrying a gun) recognizes all CC permits, resident and non-resident.
If I throw in the weasel word "most" that should make everything better.
NurseTim
12-26-2015, 23:48
Maybe this is a revenue enhancing ploy. Forcing a lot of people to buy a VA non-resident permit. The state is run by redcoats and as such, they must be running out of money.
This TTP of a Democratic held positions within different States will happen a lot more IMO.
The Attorney General for Virginia did this while the states RINOs were away on Christmas Break, so if you are gone so is your vote. RINO/GOP control the state, but with them being gone, it didn't matter.
This really effects all the Military in Virginia, along with all the retirees working in Virginia but really LIVE in NC. Time to get a CCW for Virginia. I need to read up on the changes the AG did to the CCW law. Use to be easy to get a CCW in Virginia as a military member and retiree. Some kind of proof or DD 214 is all you need really.
Once again an example why if you are active duty you need to register to vote in the state you are living in. Most states allow for this. Hell most states even allow for illegals to vote at the Local and State levels. Only the National level is where it is really stopped. But even there they can vote.
*** Also if you have a female or yourself that would like a CCW Class for a permit, next weekend 3 Jan 2016 in the Southern Pines/Pinehurst Area there will be a class held. "Geared" for females, purses and other carrying styles.
Oldrotorhead
12-27-2015, 09:42
This TTP of a Democratic held positions within different States will happen a lot more IMO.
The Attorney General for Virginia did this while the states RINOs were away on Christmas Break, so if you are gone so is your vote. RINO/GOP control the state, but with them being gone, it didn't matter.
This really effects all the Military in Virginia, along with all the retirees working in Virginia but really LIVE in NC. Time to get a CCW for Virginia. I need to read up on the changes the AG did to the CCW law. Use to be easy to get a CCW in Virginia as a military member and retiree. Some kind of proof or DD 214 is all you need really.
Once again an example why if you are active duty you need to register to vote in the state you are living in. Most states allow for this. Hell most states even allow for illegals to vote at the Local and State levels. Only the National level is where it is really stopped. But even there they can vote.
*** Also if you have a female or yourself that would like a CCW Class for a permit, next weekend 3 Jan 2016 in the Southern Pines/Pinehurst Area they will be a class held. "Geared" for females, purses and other carrying styles.
I'll g one step further. You need to watch and vote i the primary elections. Do some research and vote.
Ret10Echo
12-30-2015, 06:32
Things are heating up in Ol' Viginny....
A Virginia state senator has thrown down the gauntlet with Democratic Gov. Terry McAuliffe in a brewing battle over gun rights -- pushing to defund the governor’s armed bodyguards unless he revokes an order that banned firearms in most state buildings.
“It’s easy for someone who is surrounded by armed state policemen to tell someone else they can’t carry a weapon to protect themselves,” Republican state Sen. Charles W. Carrico Sr. told FoxNews.com.
“It’s just equal treatment, that’s all I’m saying.”
Here’s the problem I see from the Virginia experience.
Any state can make reciprocity for out of state permit holders subject to the seemingly logical requirement “we will honor all other states that impose at least the same minimum requirements on handgun carry permits that we impose on our own people.”
In other words, if State A requires a State A permit holder to complete four hour course on law, self defense, weapons safety, assembly, disassembly, nomenclature, carry, etc. followed by shooting not less than 50 rounds on a pistol range, perhaps scoring a specified number of points on an NRA recognized target, etc. then State A will freely recognize – by reciprocity – a permit from State B so long as State B also requires at least four hours of instruction, followed by 50 rounds, etc. etc. Of course, if State B requires five hours of instruction, and 100 rounds on the range, so much the better. State B’s permit is at least as restrictive as State A.
But if State A (Virginia) wants to stiff all other states, and deny other states reciprocity, all they have to do is add even one “wild card” requirement to the State A requirement and every other state that does not impose the same requirement “falls short” of being “as restrictive” as Virginia.
For example, if State A demands the summary suspension of a permit if the holder is arrested (arrested, not convicted) of DUI, Public Drunk, Assault, etc. then every other state that allows a permit holder to keep their permit pending trial “falls short” of meeting the strict requirements of State A.
And if State A wants to make sure that no other state permit holder will be recognized in State A by reciprocity, they can always add oddball requirements to their state requirements: Example: a requirement in State A that permit applicants shoot at least 55 rounds at the range – when most states require only 50 rounds – effectively wipes out all the other “50 round” states from reciprocity.
What is needed here is the same thing that was done for Commercial Driver’s Licenses. Remember when each state had its own rules, some harsh and some butterball? In the case of CDL’s the federal government stepped in and wrote minimum standards that all states had to follow. One standard, no more and no less. No state is allowed to add extra requirements to a CDL license to drive a big rig coast to coast (including Washington, DC and the left coast) on one Class A CDL license.
Maybe we don’t want Washington, DC writing a nationwide standard for a carry card, even if the upside would be forced nationwide reciprocity. Maybe we need a “Uniform Handgun Carry Law” like the “Uniform Commercial Code” that can freely be adopted by each state, but only on condition that each state impose “no more/no less” for reciprocity.
Hmmmm. I need to write to the NRA and see if they have a model bit of legislation in mind.
NurseTim
01-01-2016, 19:11
So when the rinos come back they need to pass a veto-proof constitutional carry law and unrestricted carry everywhere. Bypass those duplicitous scumbags.
Badger52
01-01-2016, 19:34
So when the rinos come back they need to pass a veto-proof constitutional carry law and unrestricted carry everywhere. Bypass those duplicitous scumbags.They won't have the votes for veto-proof until the threat of a veto is removed.
Ret10Echo
01-28-2016, 12:41
RICHMOND — Gov. Terry McAuliffe plans to announce Friday that Virginia will restore handgun reciprocity agreements with nearly all states, in a stunning reversal of firearms policy that angered Republicans and gun rights advocates across the nation.
The about-face is part of a deal that McAuliffe (D) struck with Republican leaders one month after Attorney General Mark R. Herring (D) severed the right for gun owners in 25 states to have their concealed carry permits recognized in Virginia.
In exchange, Republicans will agree to some concessions, according to McAuliffe’s office and the office of House Speaker William J. Howell (R-Stafford).
WaPo article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/mcauliffe-to-restore-handgun-reciprocity-in-deal-with-republicans/2016/01/28/6f8c0240-c5d8-11e5-9693-933a4d31bcc8_story.html?postshare=6951454005619197&tid=ss_tw)
cetheridge
09-02-2016, 08:36
For you NC and GA folks, you can now feel at ease when traveling thru SC:
August 31, 2016, SC Governor Nikki Haley signs reciprocity agreement with North Carolina and Georgia.
http://www.wltx.com/news/local/sc-gov-signs-concealed-weapons-reciprocity-with-ga-nc/307331514.