View Full Version : Defense Secretary to Open All Combat Jobs to Women
DIYPatriot
12-03-2015, 11:07
I know this has been an ongoing discussion here, but now it is official...
Defense Secretary Ash Carter will order the military to open all combat jobs to women, and is giving the armed services until Jan. 1 to submit plans to make the historic change, a senior defense official has told the Associated Press.
Carter's announcement is expected later Thursday.
It rebuffs arguments from the Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman that the Marine Corps should be allowed to exclude women from certain front-line combat jobs, citing studies showing that mixed-gender units aren't as capable as all-male units.
The defense official said all the services will have to begin putting plans in place by April 1.
The official was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.
LA Times Article (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-military-combat-jobs-women-20151203-story.html)
Streck-Fu
12-03-2015, 11:17
I eagerly await the establishment of quotas when they don't get enough volunteers.
PedOncoDoc
12-03-2015, 11:19
Does this also come with mandatory enrollment for selective service? :munchin
"In place by April 1st"
Intentional or unintentional joke?
Only in this administration can you produce factual evidence that something can not and will not work, and still be superseded.
By the 4th SECDEF none the less.
I love how Panetta is now speaking out about the administration..........
Where were you 3 years ago when you could have actually done something about it, or at least blew the lid off of it.
The fix is in...........we are a dying breed gents.
Only in this administration can you produce factual evidence that something can not and will not work, and still be superseded.
By the 4th SECDEF none the less.
I love how Panetta is now speaking out about the administration..........
Where were you 3 years ago when you could have actually done something about it, or at least blew the lid off of it.
The fix is in...........we are a dying breed gents.
Panetta doe not have to depend on Barry for a check anymore, which seems to be the major reason O's underlings are afraid to call an ace an ace and a spade a spade. What will O's last frontier be, he has been on a feeding frenzy that seems to have no end in regards to decimating our country.
His masters aren't very good...every time his mouth moves, I see his strings moving.
We all knew that was going to happen.
there is even a cool YouTube video....
LOOK FOR, "Statement from USSOCOM on SECDEF's Women in Service Review"
“Stroke of the pen. Law of the land. Kinda cool.”
–Clinton presidential aide Paul Begala, July 1998
Pericles
12-03-2015, 15:05
"In place by April 1st"
Intentional or unintentional joke?
1 April was my date of rank when I was promoted to CPT. Never heard the end of it. This is an even bigger joke.
1 April was my date of rank when I was promoted to CPT. Never heard the end of it. This is an even bigger joke.
An even bigger joke it that it's my mother-in-law's birthday. :D
Pat
Peregrino
12-03-2015, 15:40
there is even a cool YouTube video....
LOOK FOR, "Statement from USSOCOM on SECDEF's Women in Service Review"
“Stroke of the pen. Law of the land. Kinda cool.”
–Clinton presidential aide Paul Begala, July 1998
To save you the trouble of searching for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgfmBANgBk8&feature=youtu.be
^^^^^Cowards. Glad I'm out.
Team Sergeant
12-03-2015, 15:58
I stopped watching it when he said the standards would not be lowered. :rolleyes:
Ditto, I'm so very happy I'm out.
What an effing joke that was.
I trust their statements about as much as I do the S-1 guys who tells me that he will get my pay fixed.
This is the beginning of the end.
LOL
Bring back the draft and see how fast that idea wilts.
Absolutely cannot believe the cherry picking and pandering that has gone on in this decision process. No one has the balls to stand up to senior leadership because of career progression.
"I am aware that gender integrated teams will be less effective than all males, but I am going to go ahead and do it anyway".
The RAND study results should be published. Every single comment. I would estimate that 95% of the responses would show integration to be a grave threat to the SFOD-A.
Many good soldiers will exit the military because of this decision. Put a woman on my ODA and see what happens. My wife has already said she will not have it, and I will seek other employment. In fact, in light of many other poor decisions and changes to SF, I would be showing myself the door now if I hadn't reenlisted a few years ago. Half my team is getting out.
Old Dog New Trick
12-03-2015, 16:37
LOL
Bring back the draft and see how fast that idea wilts.
Chelsea is young enough and old enough to register for selective service and the draft. As well as many feminists who think this is a good idea. It's already been proven in the most recent rounds that mothers of young children are not exempt and can and will deploy with their units.
With the coming war it's time to fill the trough with fresh bodies.
Yep, glad I'm out.
Absolutely cannot believe the cherry picking and pandering that has gone on in this decision process. No one has the balls to stand up to senior leadership because of career progression.
"I am aware that gender integrated teams will be less effective than all males, but I am going to go ahead and do it anyway".
The RAND study results should be published. Every single comment. I would estimate that 95% of the responses would show integration to be a grave threat to the SFOD-A.
Many good soldiers will exit the military because of this decision. Put a woman on my ODA and see what happens. My wife has already said she will not have it, and I will seek other employment. In fact, in light of many other poor decisions and changes to SF, I would be showing myself the door now if I hadn't reenlisted a few years ago. Half my team is getting out.
Yes there will be some that leave, but many with experience will stay if close enough to retirement. Enough to keep things going, while waiting for the next leadership change that everyone hopes will be "better".
There will be no sudden and wholesale collapse. Just a change to something different. Different and less effectve and more expensive. And then there more and more people who remember less and less of when it was any different.
I think it's called, "progress".
Utah Bob
12-03-2015, 18:01
Yes there will be some that leave, but many with experience will stay if close enough to retirement. Enough to keep things going, while waiting for the next leadership change that everyone hopes will be "better".
There will be no sudden and wholesale collapse. Just a change to something different. Different and less effectve and more expensive. And then there more and more people who remember less and less of when it was any different.
I think it's called, "progress".
And then the enemy will be at the gates. And it'll be too late.
Chairborne64
12-03-2015, 18:54
So good, now we can get rid of the female PT standard. We are all equal now. That will get rid of about 85% of the current serving females. Oh wait, I forgot, equal but allowed "special" standards, how stupid of me.
bailaviborita
12-03-2015, 19:01
My contacts at the 5 sided nut-house tell me that this is just "the beginning." Look for transsexuals next, an attack on all our so-called "time-tested" standards, mandatory anti-cis-gendered sensitivity training, and ending the "White male hetero-advantage of the combat arms and special operations forces.
I thought they were joking- but:
- the transsexual agenda is at the top of the advocates next effort and is being currently reviewed by DoD.
- the standards have been attacked from the get-go. Its no coincidence that at exactly 1100 HRS today the phones started ringing asking for all of our metrics "proving" that our standards are connected to actual mission requirements. I can attest to the fact that our "proof" that 6 pullups is a requirement for combat is WEAK--- (it is intuitive, it is impossible to "prove" junk like this quantitatively like a physics experiment, and- at the end of the day- if you've got a guy who can do 5, but is above-average on everything else, he'll do...).
- the sensitivity nut-jobs are already out in force. Military Review is going to have an issue next year on how terrible the homosexuals are being treated in combat arms and how they aren't being made to feel like they fit in. The solution? Change the culture of combat arms to be anti-hetero-normative... There will be awards for those who can display they exist all over the "gender spectrum" and extra re-education- I mean counseling- for those who display cis-genderedness. I wish I was making this stuff up...
- The old studies and task forces of the past that looked into fixing the lack of minorities in combat arms and Special Ops will come back with a vengeance- but now it will be mostly female and homosexual-focused.
Make no mistake- fundamental change is the goal and they aren't done yet...
Trapper John
12-03-2015, 19:23
My contacts at the 5 sided nut-house tell me that this is just "the beginning." Look for transsexuals next, an attack on all our so-called "time-tested" standards, mandatory anti-cis-gendered sensitivity training, and ending the "White male hetero-advantage of the combat arms and special operations forces.
I thought they were joking- but:
- the transsexual agenda is at the top of the advocates next effort and is being currently reviewed by DoD.
- the standards have been attacked from the get-go. Its no coincidence that at exactly 1100 HRS today the phones started ringing asking for all of our metrics "proving" that our standards are connected to actual mission requirements. I can attest to the fact that our "proof" that 6 pullups is a requirement for combat is WEAK--- (it is intuitive, it is impossible to "prove" junk like this quantitatively like a physics experiment, and- at the end of the day- if you've got a guy who can do 5, but is above-average on everything else, he'll do...).
- the sensitivity nut-jobs are already out in force. Military Review is going to have an issue next year on how terrible the homosexuals are being treated in combat arms and how they aren't being made to feel like they fit in. The solution? Change the culture of combat arms to be anti-hetero-normative... There will be awards for those who can display they exist all over the "gender spectrum" and extra re-education- I mean counseling- for those who display cis-genderedness. I wish I was making this stuff up...
- The old studies and task forces of the past that looked into fixing the lack of minorities in combat arms and Special Ops will come back with a vengeance- but now it will be mostly female and homosexual-focused.
Make no mistake- fundamental change is the goal and they aren't done yet...
This is probably something worthy of drawing a line. My response to all of this would be quite simply - "I will agree and support these initiatives whole-heartedly if it can be shown how any of this social engineering enhances our readiness and capabilities as a war fighting force. Otherwise, step aside!"
Do you think Dunsford would be up to the challenge and lead the charge to push back?
Disgusting, but I imagine the world will keep turning and this will probably sort itself out. I hope the cost for that sorting is not too high...
...On a completely unrelated note, who do I have to PM to get vetted around here?
frostfire
12-03-2015, 19:28
This is probably something worthy of drawing a line. My response to all of this would be quite simply - "I will agree and support these initiatives whole-heartedly if it can be shown how any of this social engineering enhances our readiness and capabilities as a war fighting force. Otherwise, step aside!"
hmmm, considering some of US enemies right now fear getting riddled by bullets that come from a gun-toting, PMS-ing females and so on....perhaps "they" are just thinking outside the box. Heck, I'll volunteer to lead this feared all-female combat unit :D
Trapper John
12-03-2015, 19:55
hmmm, considering some of US enemies right now fear getting riddled by bullets that come from a gun-toting, PMS-ing females and so on....perhaps "they" are just thinking outside the box. Heck, I'll volunteer to lead this feared all-female combat unit :D
Is that a subtle admission that you're transgender? :D
Oldrotorhead
12-03-2015, 20:11
In support of this policy both Carter and Obama should make their security details comply with this policy. The security details must be at least 51% female, 20% black. You have until January to comply! Go!
Absolutely cannot believe the cherry picking and pandering that has gone on in this decision process. No one has the balls to stand up to senior leadership because of career progression.
"I am aware that gender integrated teams will be less effective than all males, but I am going to go ahead and do it anyway".
The RAND study results should be published. Every single comment. I would estimate that 95% of the responses would show integration to be a grave threat to the SFOD-A.
Many good soldiers will exit the military because of this decision. Put a woman on my ODA and see what happens. My wife has already said she will not have it, and I will seek other employment. In fact, in light of many other poor decisions and changes to SF, I would be showing myself the door now if I hadn't reenlisted a few years ago. Half my team is getting out.
Wife gave me the same ultimatum.
God forbid that I spend more time throughout the year in close quarters with another female other than her.
Not to mention the overall social cultural change within the team. She wants me with meat eaters and people that will do anything to win and stay alive. Not people that are preoccupied with getting a piece of ass whilst deployed.
With that being said, is there any way that the results can be requested through the Freedom of Information Act? Or was it classified as Secret in order to avoid said request?
I love how in the video, the CSM clearly states that the survey was done.....
So what? He said nothing about results! That should tell you something there.
I have four daughters, I consider myself a modern man. The fairest way this liberal policy should be implemented is economically. Screening/Privilege, then race/economic should receive front line assignments, tip of the spear. Chelsea Clinton pulling point....
Wife gave me the same ultimatum.
God forbid that I spend more time throughout the year in close quarters with another female other than her.
Not to mention the overall social cultural change within the team. She wants me with meat eaters and people that will do anything to win and stay alive. Not people that are preoccupied with getting a piece of ass whilst deployed.
With that being said, is there any way that the results can be requested through the Freedom of Information Act? Or was it classified as Secret in order to avoid said request?
I love how in the video, the CSM clearly states that the survey was done.....
So what? He said nothing about results! That should tell you something there.
The public needs to see the results of the surveys that were done by active team guys. They'd see the impact it would have on the families and understand exactly what it is we do on a daily basis. Whether they would give a damn or not is a different story. But we don't have much else as ammunition to push back.
What we need is 8000 green berets in formations across the country with media presence demanding a restriction be placed, but that's a pipe dream. We can't even get our commander to reflect our deep concerns.
DanHeller88
12-04-2015, 01:49
I have an old school Recon Marine that works for me currently. He told me back in the day they tried integrating women into his unit, telling them 3 women would be showing up the next morning. Apparently they dug a small hole the night before. When they showed up for formation and the 3 women were there, the whole unit tossed their jump wings in the hole and left for the day. Next day no more women.
Divemaster
12-04-2015, 02:44
Fundamentally transform America?
Mission Accomplished!
Riddle me this: Will a Republican president have the wherewithal to restore sanity to the military?
trannies serving with honor is the next big move... I expect to start hearing about that within the next 60-90 days
consider this about Army Secretary Erik Fanning...
-He is the highest ranking openly gay member of the Department of Defense.
-He favors the adoption by the U.S. military of a policy prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
-He supports allowing openly transgender persons to serve in the military
-He was a member of the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund for 3 or 4 years before entering government service
...longer than 90 days before you start hearing about trannies would be a huge surprise to me. This is something that needs to be accomplished BEFORE the POTUS leaves office so there is no time to waste.
Plus, if it makes the news during the REAL election cycle it can be used as liberal fodder to help get another SJW into the white house
bailaviborita
12-04-2015, 06:33
trannies serving with honor is the next big move... I expect to start hearing about that within the next 60-90 days
consider this about Army Secretary Erik Fanning...
-He is the highest ranking openly gay member of the Department of Defense.
-He favors the adoption by the U.S. military of a policy prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
-He supports allowing openly transgender persons to serve in the military
-He was a member of the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund for 3 or 4 years before entering government service
...longer than 90 days before you start hearing about trannies would be a huge surprise to me. This is something that needs to be accomplished BEFORE the POTUS leaves office so there is no time to waste.
Plus, if it makes the news during the REAL election cycle it can be used as liberal fodder to help get another SJW into the white house
Yep! Funny, my buds in the five sided funhouse tell me that in the same meetings where the civilian appointees say having trannies won't result in any issues they start badgering the military folks to explain why there aren't more combat arms homosexuals serving out of the closet
The answer : gay culture isn't culturally conducive to small level unit cohesion in US units. Their solution: if butch lesbians don't change that now, then we'll need extra special leadership pressure to change that culture and sensitivity training...
Notice Votel laid the onus mostly on leadership to make all this work. Implied message: if a woman fails in your training or operations unit- you will be fired...
Soon: if gays don't serve openly in your combat arms unit, you will be fired...
Team Sergeant
12-04-2015, 07:23
"Fundamentally change America"
All Zero is going to do is divide America an America for which he cares nothing about, until it explodes.
The movie "The Purge" makes more and more sense......
"Fundamentally change America"
All Zero is going to do is divide America an America for which he cares nothing about, until it explodes.
The movie "The Purge" makes more and more sense......
Obama Schmobama
There are too many Spartans left in my Country for the Persians to win.
there is even a cool YouTube video....
LOOK FOR, "Statement from USSOCOM on SECDEF's Women in Service Review"
“Stroke of the pen. Law of the land. Kinda cool.”
–Clinton presidential aide Paul Begala, July 1998
Ahh. Votel brought Thetford along with him.
I'll add:
If some others who've read this directive are correct, this affects not just those seeking combat positions, but total enlistee and officer branch assignments.
I take that to mean that female enlistees, ROTC and Academy grads who don't score high enough to pick their branch will get selected whether they want it or not.
I think that, if true, this little fact would have quite interesting consequences.
So when do the 18 Y/o Females sign up for selective Service??
I have no issues with my daughter signing up.
I think everyone should be writing their elective officials asking when this will be happening?
I am still in my first term at group. I have already decided that if there are females in the pipeline by the time I am up for reenlistment, I am out. My fellow new SF soldiers almost universally feel the same way. If I am going to work in a f-ed up mixed gender unit I will just go do it as a contractor and enjoy more control over my life. I started my time in the Army with lots of females around me and it is not an experience I care to repeat.
Old Dog New Trick
12-04-2015, 10:47
Awe man embrace the suck!
I figure the 18D program will have to add a week just to cover all the things teams will have to deal with. Vaginitis, chlamydia, UTIs, gonorhea and just plain old itchy pussy syndrome.
ElevenBravo87
12-04-2015, 10:53
Interesting viewpoint from one of first female fighter pilots. Real details at 3:30 and on.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4645837379001/women-in-all-combat-roles-really-a-good-idea-/?intcmp=hpvid1#sp=show-clips
Bio posted says she had been around SEAL teams, not sure how, maybe intel background liaison? I honestly thought this was going to be one of those we can do it kinds of fluff pieces, but turns out she is soundly against the idea of integration, particularly in the elite units.
Just not something you see in the regular media very much.
It could just be me trying to be positive, but the overwhelmingly outraged response across the board gives me hope that something might be salvaged from this disaster of retarded proportions.
I don't see this as the end of our way of life. It's going to be an embarrassing mess to be sure, but the turnout is going to be underwhelming at the worst, and if that gets the people upstairs to shut up long enough that we can start the pendulum swinging back in the other direction. Don't get me wrong, I get nauseous at the thought of being the one of the few dudes that actually ends up having to deal with a female on the team, thankfully that is still a bridge to be crossed. I have some degree of faith that my peers and I will be able to turn this around and pull out a win in the end. Simply saying 'fuck it' and leaving at this point is the only sure way to let the stooges and their bullshit beat us.
Red Flag 1
12-04-2015, 15:53
Does this also come with mandatory enrollment for selective service? :munchin
Concur. That should have been included with the program statement, right up front. Wonder why they left that out:confused:
Red Flag 1
12-04-2015, 15:57
"Fundamentally change America"
All Zero is going to do is divide America an America for which he cares nothing about, until it explodes.
The movie "The Purge" makes more and more sense......
I think the o's last year in office will be horrid for this nation. He is not even quietly anti American any more; it's right out front now.
FlagDayNCO
12-04-2015, 17:16
The thought that this will right itself and will swing back to normal is bullshit.
Name one thing from the Federal Gubmint or the military that has gone back to normal in any of our memories?
This is absolute transformation and weakening of the American people.
Oldrotorhead
12-04-2015, 17:39
This policy will fail because the Government has NEVER done anything, on time, on budget and as promise. So there is still hope.:munchin Wonder how many meat eaters will go past minimum retirement age if they are forced to accept people in their units that only meet a lower standard of performance?
The thought that this will right itself and will swing back to normal is bullshit.
Name one thing from the Federal Gubmint or the military that has gone back to normal in any of our memories?
This is absolute transformation and weakening of the American people.
I heard people say that with Clinton, and before that, with Carter. Probably happened all the way back to Wilson.
It'll come back around, but each time one of these libs gets in the cat bird seat the nest gets fouled beyond a good cleaning.
It'll take 12-16 years for conservative leadership to unscrew this cluster.
We can curl up, stick our thumbs in our mouths and let the leaves cover us up, I guess.
Nah. Let's try Trump or Cruz for a couple terms, first.
Dusty to your point, I gotta believe Trump's comments give ISIS some real concern about the eat shit and die possibilities if he becomes president.
Compare...the Trumpism of the moment "I'll come for your families" versus the Obamasim "ISIS is not Islamic..."
If I'm a BG...one comment has me thinking...the other has me laughing.
I heard people say that with Clinton, and before that, with Carter. Probably happened all the way back to Wilson.
It'll come back around, but each time one of these libs gets in the cat bird seat the nest gets fouled beyond a good cleaning.
It'll take 12-16 years for conservative leadership to unscrew this cluster.
We can curl up, stick our thumbs in our mouths and let the leaves cover us up, I guess.
Nah. Let's try Trump or Cruz for a couple terms, first.
When they reverse " don't ask don't tell" let me know. I guess that will come AFTER the transsexual revolution and unwritten promotion quotas for gays and women in combat units.... you know that is coming next.
It only took 30yrs to start the thought process of getting us a new service pistol. And like most things the Army is even screwing that process up.
StRaTeGy_
12-04-2015, 20:00
Well, if the SECDEF is directing the full integration of women in the Armed Forces, they might as well start implementing that all female U.S. citizens be required to register with Selective Service between the age of 18 through 25. Right? Why wasn't that statement in the tri-signed document?
It seems like the wolf pack of 4 star general officers are not advising these civilians accurately or the civilians are not listening to their concerns. So far only a marine general has voiced his concerns with this action.
StRaTeGy_
12-04-2015, 20:38
In support of this policy both Carter and Obama should make their security details comply with this policy. The security details must be at least 51% female, 20% black. You have until January to comply! Go!
We discussed that with some secret service agents. They said they had a couple that hang out with the FLOTUS and that's it. They do not want anymore, but are being made to recruit more and bring the 90 - 95 percentage of male down to at least 60%. Secret service has too many scandals, more since Obama took over. Let this marinate "gender diversity among those who are willing to die for the president" hmmm... By the way, a lot of this started with the prostitute scandals.
. Fundamentally transform America?
Mission Accomplished!
Demoralization, destabilization of the military and foreign relations, crisis, etc...
Yuri Bezmenov was truly a prophet.... :(
The public needs to see the results of the surveys that were done by active team guys. They'd see the impact it would have on the families and understand exactly what it is we do on a daily basis. Whether they would give a damn or not is a different story. But we don't have much else as ammunition to push back.
What we need is 8000 green berets in formations across the country with media presence demanding a restriction be placed, but that's a pipe dream. We can't even get our commander to reflect our deep concerns.
I'm in. But how do we proceed? I have written congress numerous times, with no avail.
We really need to look into the freedom of information act in regards to the survey. I mean really, when it's all said and done all of our leaders talk about this survey that was done by active duty service members on Special Forces ODAs, however no one has actually seeing any definitive results in regards to the position that everyone has taken on it. I mean was it that one decided that we actually have leadership covering up the entire survey itself?
My guess is yes.
RomanCandle
12-05-2015, 03:17
Demoralization, destabilization of the military and foreign relations, crisis, etc...
Yuri Bezmenov was truly a prophet.... :(
Bezminov was not a prophet. He merely blew the lid off the real war that was being conducted against the West while all the proxy shooting war sideshows were taking place as a distraction. He came out and explained the strategy, the tactics being used and the final goal to be achieved by his former masters.
He looks like a prophet because those goals have been achieved with admirable efficiency, even after the demise of the Soviet Union. It makes one wonder whether the West really beat the Soviet Union or if it was merely "dismantled" because it was no longer necessary as a costly and detrimental "weapon".
. Bezmenov was not a prophet.
Hey you're right. Probably the wrong terminology but his take was truly prophetic. I would insert a smiley face but the shits real... :D. :(
Golf1echo
12-05-2015, 09:20
....
GratefulCitizen
12-05-2015, 10:32
Biology is biology.
Nature doesn't care about anyone's social agenda.
Doesn't matter if it's general population:
http://www.sciencevsfeminism.com/the-myth-of-equality/sex-differences-physical-ability/
Doesn't matter if it's elite:
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/08/we-thought-female-athletes-were-catching-up-to-men-but-theyre-not/260927/
bailaviborita
12-05-2015, 10:47
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/opinion/a-victory-for-women-at-war.html?emc=edit_th_20151205&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=62971638&_r=1&referer=
t along with this victory comes a burden, because it’s up to us women to prove the secretary right, to show that we can handle any combat role, “no exceptions.” To do that, we have to rise above the outdated notions and prejudices that some military leaders still have about us.
Signs that things are just starting. I say that because a lot of generals and colonels opined in private that this would be it and few- if any will get in. Unfortunately our country wants equality of outcome- not opportunity. Already SOCOM CDR has implied leadership better make this a success.
FYI- the survey results have been published showing more than 80% of SF don't want females in their unit...
From defense.com:
a nearly 300-page report obtained exclusively by Defense One with more than 150 additional pages of technical notes based on focus groups and a survey of those inside the special operations community, RANDCorporation researchers note that, according to their work, SEALs, Air Force special operations forces and non-commissioned officers "appeared most strongly opposed" to integrating women into special operations forces.
"There is strong, deep seated and intensely felt opposition to opening SOF(special operations forces) specialties that have been closed to women," the report notes. "Overall, 85 percent of survey participants opposed letting women into their specialty, and 71 percent opposed women in their unit."
Noted RAND, "the dominant perspective across the focus groups was that women should not be integrated into special operations forces units and specialties, with potential impact on mission effectiveness and their continued ability to function as a highly performing team central to participants' concerns."
Biology is biology.
Nature doesn't care about anyone's social agenda.
Intuitive to everyone but a leftist.
I'm in. But how do we proceed? I have written congress numerous times, with no avail.
We really need to look into the freedom of information act in regards to the survey. I mean really, when it's all said and done all of our leaders talk about this survey that was done by active duty service members on Special Forces ODAs, however no one has actually seeing any definitive results in regards to the position that everyone has taken on it. I mean was it that one decided that we actually have leadership covering up the entire survey itself?
My guess is yes.
While I understand writing Congress is one way it should work to remedy a problem, but does it actually work that way?
Have a look at this Gallup poll:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/148163/americans-confident-military-least-congress.aspx
Specifically the extremely high respect(most respected) for the military as an institution and extremely low respect(least respected) for Congress as an institution.
I would posit that in terms of human herd behaviour that disparity is not only incredibly embarrassing, but incredibly dangerous.
I believe that the Congressional "herd" is WELL aware of this.
If your main effort and intent is to benefit your herd and yourself over those you were elected or hired to represent, then recent behaviour is perfectly logical, if not moral or ethical.
Human laziness and economy of effort.
If you are a member of the a Congressional tribe with the lowest public respect rating and you view the military tribe with the highest public respect rating as a competitive threat(natural selfish human behaviour) how do you respond?
The aspirational response is that the Congressional tribe gets off their ass and works hard to raise their REAL public respect rating to close the gap.
The realistic response is that the Congressional tribe can use economy of effort and inherent power advantage to cut the military off at the knees to raise their RELATIVE/NOMINAL public respect rating to close the gap.
Turkey's military has played an active and protective role in their country's political history since its modern founding by Ataturk.
This reboot button had been hit several times.
But this military reboot option has been completely deconstructed over the past decade by the current Erdogon government to eliminate this competitive threat to his own tribe.
I'm not saying the U.S. Military would ever participate as a 5th form of power(beyond executive, legislative, judicial, and 4th estate media) as the U.S. has moved beyond such blunt options towards more nuanced and strategic long view battles for power.
I believe the professional U.S. Military has become so concentrated(as proportion population of serving and their families/friends/networks) and disconnected(from competing partisan tribes and other power tribes that view it as a future threat) that it's viewed as a competitive threat to be destroyed regardless of the impact it could have on national security.
If you can't beat it, cripple it.
Marlboro
12-05-2015, 16:16
I've been constantly struggling with this.. We've all experienced the women trying to get pregnant prior to a deployment, and we've all ran by a non-combat unit essentially walking.. I don't know what to think about this, but I feel like what made the infantry (can't speak for SF etc.) will have to die. OSUT training will have to change, training will have to change, barracks assignments will have to change, and I just can't see how this transition at this dangerous of a time is smart. If Turkey and Russia decide to square off, we're stuck modifying everything while trying to somehow find the readiness to surge. I hope it doesn't get to that point, but if it does.. I'll be praying for the folks still in.
John_Chrichton
12-05-2015, 17:20
I personally welcome this change. Women can do anything men can do. All successful armies throughout human history have fielded women on the front lines. This is going to be great!
Anyone who criticizes my post is in violation of EO/SHARPS and will be executed accordingly.
The most mind boggling things about this argument:
1- People that have no idea what combat entails have disregarded literally reams (thousands of pages) of data points and evidence that would maintain the previous restrictions. These studies were done to check the block, costing millions of taxpayer money.
2- The leftist and egalitarian folks advocating for women in combat arms obviously want equality and gender neutrality IE no special measures taken to have women in the units. But when faced with what this actually means, they are up in arms about it because "men can't control themselves". These measures include equal grooming standards, equal PT standards (which would disqualify 50-75% of active duty females), selective service registration, no designated porta johns, no segregated tents, no block shower times. So in effect, when confronted with the changes that need to be made, they say that men are the problem. It is such a contradicting situation.
3- The RAND survey is beyond damning and the media needs to see what the active duty soldiers have stated. If they look at the results they will see that recruitment and retention will absolutely take a hit from this decision. As someone stated earlier, they have damaged combat effectiveness because there will be less team guys staying on the teams. It is a sad day to be SF. No one is fighting for us.
Our senior leadership has failed us.
John_Chrichton
12-06-2015, 12:32
Our senior leadership has failed us.
Some people will throw away every principle they have to get promoted. The military is the one traditionally conservative structure that the libs can immediately impact with their social engineering policies.
I'm surprised this didn't happen earlier.
bailaviborita
12-06-2015, 16:42
Note this excerpt in the NY Times today:
The American military has said that physical standards will not be lowered
to enable women to serve in all roles. The Army and the Marine Corps found in
recent studies that women were injured more often than men during combat
training exercises, especially those that required carrying heavy equipment.
Rather than use that as an excuse to bar women from combat roles, the
military must find ways to more effectively train women for front*line combat
and other warfare scenarios that female service members have routinely faced
in Iraq and Afghanistan in recent years
Notice that? "The military must find ways to more effectively train women for front line combat."
I have basically heard the same from the Pentagon and SOCOM- implying that if women continue to be injured more and can't make it physically in combat arms units and schools- it will be because of the leadership...
Equality of OUTCOME is their mantra---
I guess this is where I kinda branch off from what most would say is a straight-up, right wing outlook on an issue.
I wouldn't care, if I was still on a Team, if a female was part of the lineup, as long as she could do everything to the standard expected of her (MOS and general capabilities).
If she makes it through Ranger school, put a Tab on 'er. Same with SEAL, RECON, whatever.
I think you guys need to relax, though-Ziva left last year and the musclegirl thang'll wear off next fad cycle.
frostfire
12-06-2015, 21:57
Is that a subtle admission that you're transgender? :D
yeouch! That's quite a deduction....and a low blow
I was coordinating foreign jump masters' pinning various BCT when I noticed the female soldiers/NCO/officers among the 95%+ male ones. Some are quite a looker, and well-endowed to boot. Basically they would catch the attention of any male (or "certain" female) joe's. Perhaps a study could be done to analyze the group dynamics in units that have them. If they can honestly say they feel like "just one of the guys," then perhaps the zillions spent on SHARP do pay off after all. You can't regulate thoughts, but maybe the program has regulated actions and words.
DanHeller88
12-06-2015, 23:39
Note this excerpt in the NY Times today:
Notice that? "The military must find ways to more effectively train women for front line combat."
I have basically heard the same from the Pentagon and SOCOM- implying that if women continue to be injured more and can't make it physically in combat arms units and schools- it will be because of the leadership...
Equality of OUTCOME is their mantra---
Guess there is going to be a Genetic Engineering MOS soon to create the women with higher boner density, testosterone, optimum musculature, etc.....
Trapper John
12-07-2015, 07:25
yeouch! That's quite a deduction....and a low blow
Just teasing you!
Team Sergeant
12-07-2015, 07:58
A yellow bird
with a yellow bill
landed on
my windowsill
I lured him in
with a piece of bread
and then I smashed
his f**king head
I can't wait to hear 120 women singing this cadence before shipping out to Syria for combat operations. :munchin
It will be all fun and games until the same 120 women meet 120 islamic crusaders on the battlefield. Many will have to be killed in the name of socialism before the low IQ voters stop believing the moron democrats.
I can't wait to hear 120 women singing this cadence before shipping out to Syria for combat operations. :munchin
What's even worse is that your never have that because that cadence is profane and too offensive to sing while preparing for war.
Team Sergeant
12-07-2015, 08:13
What's even worse is that your never have that because that cadence is profane and too offensive to sing while preparing for war.
And therein lies the conundrum;
Taking societies sensitive flowers and turning them into cold-blooded brutal killers.
America can only be destroyed from within.
And therein lies the conundrum;
Taking societies sensitive flowers and turning them into cold-blooded brutal killers.
America can only be destroyed from within.
We (USA) are no Sparta...there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
I want to see who the first politician will be who says..."But, but, that wasn't what we meant...."
But we need those special flowers. We put them up to lead us. Case in point is this administration, it is full of special flowers.
What's even worse is that your never have that because that cadence is profane and too offensive to sing while preparing for war.
The cadences just need to be brought up to date the times they are a changin.
See the tranny dressed in black ...... or
See the tranny dressed in blue.............
We just need to update the Cadence Manual (CM)
Team Sergeant
12-07-2015, 09:41
The only organization that has successfully transformed the American female into cold-blooded and brutal killers is Hollywood.
And for the low IQ voters, (Hollywood), that perception is their reality.
Retirement timing couldn't be better...
But we need those special flowers. We put them up to lead us. Case in point is this administration, it is full of special flowers.
Amen.
And they must be smokin' special flowers.
Seriously, they won't find any daisies who can hold to the standards in the long run for SF, Ranger, SEAL or MARSOC (or whatever they're called nowadays).
This will wind up being a none issue, if the world doesn't end first.
Amen.
And they must be smokin' special flowers.
Seriously, they won't find any daisies who can hold to the standards in the long run for SF, Ranger, SEAL or MARSOC (or whatever they're called nowadays).
This will wind up being a none issue, if the world doesn't end first.
Exactly. The standards are back up at selection all the way through the end of the Q. Gated physical events, extremely difficult MOS and phase 2 classes. We will be fine. As long as numbers aren't forced.
drivfast
12-07-2015, 18:41
The only organization that has successfully transformed the American female into cold-blooded and brutal killers is Hollywood.
And for the low IQ voters, (Hollywood), that perception is their reality.
A more succint and true statement cannot be made on the issue than this.
The only organization that has successfully transformed the American female into cold-blooded and brutal killers is Hollywood.
And for the low IQ voters, (Hollywood), that perception is their reality.
And their history.
Like how Zero Dark Thirty is all most folks will ever "learn" about OBL, and more importantly, Pakistan's role.
Hollywood as people's historical reference points is scary.
I liked that movie Rudy where that runt played a single game of football. Great story for real, and a decent uplifting movie.
Great for sport. That's what sport is for.
But not for War. I don't want a Rudy or a Rudette in my infantry platoon.
I want killers that would deter Ghengis Khan.
There'd be a civil war in the U.S. if geopolitically irrelevant Division I college football had mandatory recruiting requirements for females, yet it's ok to do the same for a Warfighting organization with the purpose of deterring or destroying threats to national sovereignty.
Exactly. The standards are back up at selection all the way through the end of the Q. Gated physical events, extremely difficult MOS and phase 2 classes. We will be fine. As long as numbers aren't forced.
That is a plus. Any way that someone can keep everyone in the loop here as to what is happening out that way on a semi regular basis?
The Gubment as a whole couldn't be trusted to keep the standards up on a cup of coffee, hence why I think everyone is a little bit hesitant.
Well.............extremely hesitant.
I see this playing out as the hawks who "are doing it because they were told that they couldn't", basically......the cunts.......showing up first.
Then after injuries and failures..............they will petition that it was "unfair". Then we will be under the microscope.........depending on who takes control of this country next. If a Conservative wins, then maybe we have a shot..........if it is the latter............We are done IMO.
That is a plus. Any way that someone can keep everyone in the loop here as to what is happening out that way on a semi regular basis?
The Gubment as a whole couldn't be trusted to keep the standards up on a cup of coffee, hence why I think everyone is a little bit hesitant.
Well.............extremely hesitant.
I see this playing out as the hawks who "are doing it because they were told that they couldn't", basically......the cunts.......showing up first.
Then after injuries and failures..............they will petition that it was "unfair". Then we will be under the microscope.........depending on who takes control of this country next. If a Conservative wins, then maybe we have a shot..........if it is the latter............We are done IMO.
From a SWTG instructor and a SFQC student in MOS phase right now, things sound about as hard as they have been in a long time. Recently half of an echo class was recycled for failing HF. The instructors held to their guns that they didn't meet the standard despite high level pressure on them for failing so many. One of the best things I have seen them implement are the gated events, whether it be a 5 mile run, UBRR, 12 mile ruck, random PT tests, whatever. If they let themselves go after ANY of the phases including SERE, they can fail a single gate and be recycled/relieved. It really thins out the one and done crowd and forces discipline. Right now things seem to be right where they need to be.
I just simply don't see a female finishing nasty nick and climbing all those ropes. I don't see them finishing the trek. Hell, I don't see them doing half of the crazy shit we did in basic, SOPC, and selection. 4,6,8,12 mile ruck runs at 9:00 pace? Please. I just can't imagine it, and it actually makes me laugh thinking about it. Even the most roided out Crossfit female doesn't stand a chance. If women can run, they can't ruck. If they can lift, they can't run. They just cannot be multi faceted because of their upper body.
The biggest offense I take is that the restrictions were lifted in the first place with overwhelming evidence. It is just a slap in the face. I will personally be following any subtle changes that point to changing the standards and will be checking in frequently. This is personal, I laid my ass on the line and shed too much blood sweat and tears for this all to be made a joke.
.........depending on who takes control of this country next. If a Conservative wins, then maybe we have a shot..........if it is the latter............We are done IMO.
Brother, there's my political philosophy in a nutshell.
bailaviborita
12-08-2015, 10:34
That is a plus. Any way that someone can keep everyone in the loop here as to what is happening out that way on a semi regular basis?
The Gubment as a whole couldn't be trusted to keep the standards up on a cup of coffee, hence why I think everyone is a little bit hesitant.
Well.............extremely hesitant.
I see this playing out as the hawks who "are doing it because they were told that they couldn't", basically......the cunts.......showing up first.
Then after injuries and failures..............they will petition that it was "unfair". Then we will be under the microscope.........depending on who takes control of this country next. If a Conservative wins, then maybe we have a shot..........if it is the latter............We are done IMO.
I can say a few things, but PM for more. Lots of Gestapo language right now within the Regiment.
Last thing I heard was we were thinking about our own pregnancy policy , as the Army one would hurt pregnant SF officers....careers...
Also, they are really focusing on the Rangers first, as that's what the press and politicians are fixated on, i.e., Ranger School equals Ranger Regiment...
April 2016, first Selection class...
Last thing I heard was we were thinking about our own pregnancy policy , as the Army one would hurt pregnant SF officers....careers...
The fact that this is even being discussed in the regiment shows that SF is led by a bunch of bitches. What a disgrace.
you people are all just misogynist dinosaurs
...shame on you
From a SWTG instructor and a SFQC student in MOS phase right now, things sound about as hard as they have been in a long time. Recently half of an echo class was recycled for failing HF. The instructors held to their guns that they didn't meet the standard despite high level pressure on them for failing so many. One of the best things I have seen them implement are the gated events, whether it be a 5 mile run, UBRR, 12 mile ruck, random PT tests, whatever. If they let themselves go after ANY of the phases including SERE, they can fail a single gate and be recycled/relieved. It really thins out the one and done crowd and forces discipline. Right now things seem to be right where they need to be.
I just simply don't see a female finishing nasty nick and climbing all those ropes. I don't see them finishing the trek. Hell, I don't see them doing half of the crazy shit we did in basic, SOPC, and selection. 4,6,8,12 mile ruck runs at 9:00 pace? Please. I just can't imagine it, and it actually makes me laugh thinking about it. Even the most roided out Crossfit female doesn't stand a chance. If women can run, they can't ruck. If they can lift, they can't run. They just cannot be multi faceted because of their upper body.
The biggest offense I take is that the restrictions were lifted in the first place with overwhelming evidence. It is just a slap in the face. I will personally be following any subtle changes that point to changing the standards and will be checking in frequently. This is personal, I laid my ass on the line and shed too much blood sweat and tears for this all to be made a joke.
You said it.
These are good things to hear, as the RUMINT back here at group is that things have actually gone away. Things like rope climbing and gated events.
It sounds like you are describing the opposite. Maybe there wouldn't be as much animosity towards command if they were more open about sharing the current standards with the force to give guys a base line as to where we are now, and then there after.
Team Sergeant
12-08-2015, 20:22
You said it.
These are good things to hear, as the RUMINT back here at group is that things have actually gone away. Things like rope climbing and gated events.
It sounds like you are describing the opposite. Maybe there wouldn't be as much animosity towards command if they were more open about sharing the current standards with the force to give guys a base line as to where we are now, and then there after.
Anything to do with upper body strength will stop females dead in their tracks. Just look at jump school and the pull ups required for "men" and the requirement for females.
Now let's get rid of everything that might not make a female "equal"....... :munchin
Fundamental Change, and the moron is keeping at least that promise.
Destruction of the military is paramount if socialism is to take over. No better way to do that than to destroy the most feared unit in the world, American SOF units.
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/us-commandos-say-no-to-women-in-special-operations-jobs-1.383258
Just broke about the RAND survey results, which will not be answered with anything because it isn't resounding enough. 85% of responders against women in special operations is not enough.
For those of you who didn't respond to the survey, shame on you. This was the only opportunity for us to be heard. Your team leadership was well aware of this and there is no excuse for them not to press you.
For those of you who didn't influence your teammates who chose to be part of the 15% who were in favor of women in SF, shame on you.
Most of all, For those of you who were in favor of women in SF, essentially fucking all of your buddies who actually care about the lineage and future of SF, the most shame goes to you.
The saddest thing of all is that 85% of General Votel's troops are against it, yet his stance looks up the chain, not down. That is huge.
From one response: "This integration will happen eventually and we might as well embrace it while we have current solid leadership and incoming solid leadership at the top to facilitate the transition". Yeah buddy, keep with that ass kissing attitude that has propelled so many to the top.
It's working well in the Navy:
A ring of up to a dozen sailors secretly recorded and swapped videos of women officers and midshipmen undressing, some of whom were on submarine Wyoming for a brief duration. It took a sailor from another sub, the West Virginia, to report the videos to investigators. When confronted, many at first claimed they had no knowledge of the videos. Navy investigators detailed who filmed and passed the videos, six of which were found guilty at court-martial. Officials withheld the names of the three taken to nonjudicial punishment or were never charged, citing privacy concerns.
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2015/12/08/report-sailor-ring-repeatedly-filmed-undressing-women-sub/75924474/
Pat
In a survey, U.S. commandos say no to women in special ops jobs
http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/in-a-survey-u-s-commandos-say-no-to-women/article_5ca10979-8259-569e-bde7-0ca433827108.html
"WASHINGTON - The men in the U.S. military's most dangerous jobs care little about political correctness or gender equality. And they have a message for their political leadership.
When they are fighting in the shadows or bleeding on the battlefield, women have no place on their teams.
In blunt and, at times, profanity-laced answers to a voluntary survey conducted by the Rand Corp., more than 7,600 of America's special operations forces spoke with nearly one voice. Allowing women to serve in Navy SEAL, Army Delta or other commando units could hurt their effectiveness and lower the standards, and it may drive men away from the dangerous posts...."
85% oppose - "... In some cases people who feel most strongly about an issue are more inclined to answer surveys....".
xollie316
12-11-2015, 14:15
deleted.
The Reaper
12-11-2015, 14:18
Gates.
Star Course.
Log and rifle.
Team week.
Nasty Nick.
Gated events at IUW: 12 mile ruck, 5 mile run, pull-ups, rope climb, APFT.
SUT and all the joys it entails.
SERE.
Any MOS phase.
Sage. Static infil with a 130 lbs ruck and 10 hour movement to a G Base.
With all the potential for misery, injury, mental weakness, VW, and peer selection it is highly HIGHLY unlikely we will see any massive changes any time soon.
Doesn't make it right, that's for damned sure. So long as they don't try to re-write the Ballad of the Green Berets to be politically correct...
That's what the Rangers thought.
Someone will be ordered to pass them.
TR
I hear the word "standards" used a lot lately...
Nasty Nick.
?
My mother could do that O-course.
That's what the Rangers thought.
Someone will be ordered to pass them.
TR
My thoughts are 50/50.
All depends on who gets elected.
It is going to have to be someone special in order to swing the "fundamental transformation" back in the direction of common sense across the board.
If it is a Democ"rat", then you can take the order to the bank. Most likely the same result with an establishment rebublican.
The only hope is a Conservative.........or maybe Trump, who has said that he would support it if Military commanders advised him that it would have some benefit........
As we have seen, our leaders want their picture hung up on the fridge so........the regime change could be a positive or negative thing for this whole ordeal.
My .02
bailaviborita
12-12-2015, 08:00
CCIR for females to Congress and DoD is any incident which is negative. That incident will then have to be proven to be needed in combat.
You will see lots of waivers and exceptions granted and recycle/reliefs overturned...
CCIR for females to Congress and DoD is any incident which is negative. That incident will then have to be proven to be needed in combat.
You will see lots of waivers and exceptions granted and recycle/reliefs overturned...
Which basically negates all standards.
So it begins........Special rules for Special people.
Unless of course you are a male.
This entire administration and its minions can eatadik.
Which basically negates all standards.
So it begins........Special rules for Special people.
Unless of course you are a male.
This entire administration and its minions can eatadik.
The standards will be an elevator for women. OERs and NCOERs will be written, enough said.
seriously...
I really wish we would all stop using the words :standards".
That word no longer has any bearing on the situation.
Women will be successful. Women will be "cutting edge warriors"
...or every one of you jokers that don't have a retirement packet in the works are fucking fired.
Failure isn't "their" fault. You can't hold them accountable because of the gender they may or may not identify with.
It is the fault of you hyper-masculine misogynists that are stuck to your guns, your religion, and your antipathy to those that don't share your "Y" chromosome.
Shame on you all...
...I thought you were better than this.
Peregrino
12-13-2015, 08:51
seriously...
I really wish we would all stop using the words :standards".
That word no longer has any bearing on the situation.
Women will be successful. Women will be "cutting edge warriors"
...or every one of you jokers that don't have a retirement packet in the works are fucking fired.
Failure isn't "their" fault. You can't hold them accountable because of the gender they may or may not identify with.
It is the fault of you hyper-masculine misogynists that are stuck to your guns, your religion, and your antipathy to those that don't share your "Y" chromosome.
Shame on you all...
...I thought you were better than this.
Billy - You're channeling again. We need get a ruck on your back, a rifle in your hands, and send you to the field for a month (while that's still a relatively effective treatment); otherwise, some PC sycophant is going to deny your retirement because you're obviously "the right man to make this (abortion) succeed". :p
Sadly enough...the term "standards" is a word we are going to start referring to as something we had "back in the day."
Pathetic really....
Old Dog New Trick
12-13-2015, 10:13
We don't need no stinkin' standards, ethnics, or morals...the courage to stand up for doing something right is no longer a requirement of the job.
All's the government and country needs to do is keep unemployment high thus providing a steady pool of low wages and a desperate population. Hard to justify having standards when so many unqualified candidates are applying for limited jobs.
Go Devil
12-13-2015, 11:51
The most valuable target will be the Peer Evals.
Eliminate the truth speakers and you can dictate the results.
Trapper John
12-13-2015, 11:58
Billy - You're channeling again. We need get a ruck on your back, a rifle in your hands, and send you to the field for a month (while that's still a relatively effective treatment); otherwise, some PC sycophant is going to deny your retirement because you're obviously "the right man to make this (abortion) succeed". :p
You funny Petason! :D
Well said! :lifter
We don't need no stinkin' standards, ethnics, or morals...the courage to stand up for doing something right is no longer a requirement of the job.
All's the government and country needs to do is keep unemployment high thus providing a steady pool of low wages and a desperate population. Hard to justify having standards when so many unqualified candidates are applying for limited jobs.
That is very obvious, case in point, The SF SFC that waylayed the child molester goat fucker and is paying the price for having "morals and standards"...:mad:
That is very obvious, case in point, The SF SFC that waylayed the child molester goat fucker and is paying the price for having "morals and standards"...:mad:
Snapshot of our current leadership.
Disgusting.
Survey results: http://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/wisr-studies/SOCOM%20-%20Considerations%20for%20Integrating%20Women%20in to%20Closed%20Occupations%20in%20the%20US%20Specia l%20Operations%20Forces.pdf
Interesting read. Overwhelmingly, pleasingly NEGATIVE. Some of the comments outright hilarious. I am surprised they let Ranger E-3's and E-4's take that survey. Some of their answers are very juvenile and immature, taking away from the survey. "Chicks"? Really?
The overall impression of that survey is "this is doable".
Team Sergeant
12-14-2015, 13:24
The overall impression of that survey is "this is doable".
Pay me enough and I'll do a study to say it's doable too.......:munchin
I see 5'2", 115 lb women taking down 225lb 6'2" men all the time, on TV.
Some of the comments outright hilarious. I am surprised they let Ranger E-3's and E-4's take that survey. Some of their answers are very juvenile and immature, taking away from the survey.
Just a thought...
When someone generates a poll or a survey with the intent of collecting "fact" the questions are usually specific and quantifiable.
When someone circulates a poll/survey to collect or generate "opinion" the questions are usually emotional and subjective.
I took this survey. MANY of the questions were emotional and subjective but packaged as objective.
Consider this...
I give you a four question survey:
Women in direct combat roles is a:
-good idea
-great idea
-good example of gender equality
-process that must be studied further before it can be implemented
what do you answer?
Then I give you a section to provide your own comments...
"This shit is fucking bullshit political tampering with national defense"
That statement contradicts your previous answer, so I can deliver results as "inconclusive"
If I give that same survey to a few lower enlisted troops, I can also use the results to show exactly how immature the force is and explain that in all of the responses by mature senior troops, the free-text response matches the multiple choice.
Then I can deduce from the data that with the exception of a few immature and unprofessional youngsters - this is actually a good idea that can become a GREAT idea with just a little more research into gender equality.
Looks good - this is exactly the response we were looking for...
...execute execute execute
bailaviborita
12-15-2015, 06:38
Like many have said, the fix was in from the beginning. The way RAND works is they give you what you want. That way they can win repeat business.
I got a call from a RAND cntractor once who had been told to write a concept on how to do irregular warfare campaign planning. He had been a conventional Marine and had never planned more than a trip to the range when he had been in. He had gotten my name from an active Army fellow. This was on a Saturday at my home. Out of wanting to get it right I spent two hours on the phone with him. In the end, though, my comments were simply used to justify what USASOC commander wanted in the document...
The phrases, "none is insurmountable" and "good leadership is key" both come from SOCOM and DoD talking points. It was implicit for RAND to conclude that and state it...
StRaTeGy_
12-21-2015, 17:24
This clip reminded me this post...
Family guy - women in the workplace, personnel training
Link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MRUbC32loA4
DanHeller88
12-21-2015, 23:51
Has there been a female applicant yet? I know the government has interest in a female being tabbed, but where is this outcry of woman wanting to do it? When it comes to actually signing a contract and attending selection, I don't see too many lines of women forming.
bailaviborita
12-22-2015, 09:40
Has there been a female applicant yet? I know the government has interest in a female being tabbed, but where is this outcry of woman wanting to do it? When it comes to actually signing a contract and attending selection, I don't see too many lines of women forming.
April is the first class possible. Early signals are there are lots of West Pointers who want to "try out". Also many non SF officers are actively recruiting women in SOF and former CSTs to go...
Chairborne64
01-05-2016, 07:29
Of course we are all equal. How many men got this kind of treatment.
http://usdefensewatch.com/2016/01/double-standards-for-female-rangers/
I would REALLY like to know what is going on in the Ranger course that started yesterday.
I would REALLY like to know what is going on in the Ranger course that started yesterday.
Brother, this is a full-on winter class right now. You KNOW that the handful of women out there actually considering going to RS are going to wait until late spring or summer when the weather/temps aren't so brutal. Very similar to USMC OCS, where female candidates are not allowed to attend winter classes due to the harsh environment.
- Some long forgotton RI just before our graduation: "The easy part is sewing on that tab, the hardest thing you'll ever do, is EARN it, every F'n Day!"
If you are in it for you, and most assuridly those "glass ceiling breaker" types are, then they will never truly earn it, which is something that they can not even begin to understand.
The vast majority of the rest of the female of the species understands that they (women) are not built for ground combat and therefore just don't even bother.
Then, there are the 0.5% of women, who CAN do it, and guess what, they are activly recruited by people who actually NEED them in their organizations.
This entire experiment will fail if only because the 5-10 that "break down the glass celing" will QUIT long before their re-enlistment window opens, they won't like to actually EARN that tab every day, all day, come rain, blood, shit, or mud!
...these aren't the droids you're looking for.
You can go about your business; move along.
- Some long forgotton RI just before our graduation: "The easy part is sewing on that tab, the hardest thing you'll ever do, is EARN it, every F'n Day!"
If you are in it for you, and most assuridly those "glass ceiling breaker" types are, then they will never truly earn it, which is something that they can not even begin to understand.
The vast majority of the rest of the female of the species understands that they (women) are not built for ground combat and therefore just don't even bother.
Then, there are the 0.5% of women, who CAN do it, and guess what, they are activly recruited by people who actually NEED them in their organizations.
This entire experiment will fail if only because the 5-10 that "break down the glass celing" will QUIT long before their re-enlistment window opens, they won't like to actually EARN that tab every day, all day, come rain, blood, shit, or mud!
And then they will leave the force, with more disability than any 2 retiring SF guys, then write books, make movies, and further perpetuate the false ideology.
In what is definitely a complete coincidence and not at all related to the actions of the DOD during what has apparently become the department-wide "Year of the Womyn" celebration, the SECDEF looked far and wide and decided that the best qualified replacement for the outgoing NORAD & USNORTHCOM commander (4-star billet) is, again quite coincidentally, a female. Again, in no way possibly related to having female Ranger School grads, opening all direct combat jobs to women, or emplacing the first female CSM and Commandant (1-star) at West Point and female Superintendent (4-star) at USAFA, Gen Lori Robinson (USAF) is the first female nominee for a US combatant command position. Not too shabby for a career AWACS scope-dope, trainer and staff officer with, oddly, less than 1,000 flight hours. Yay diversity!
If I tell them I am a lesbian in a mans body do I get to use the female PT standards :munchin
Screw the standards ... ask to use the female showers. ;)
Old Dog New Trick
01-07-2016, 23:36
Screw the standards ... ask to use the female showers. ;)
Don't ask, don't tell...
and if someone complains file a discrimination lawsuit.
joshua20
01-08-2016, 14:06
Gentlemen, I may have just made contact with the first female to go to SF selection. E6 I believe , out of Ft.Lee. She says she got an email explaining the decision to let women in combat roles etc, and gave her a phone number to call. She called and want her to attend the class in April, pending her physical. I'm in deep cover on this one so I'm trying to extract info without blowing it. Apparently there's another female whom responded, stationed at Bragg who won't be ready for the April selection. I'll update this as I get more.
bailaviborita
01-09-2016, 15:14
Gentlemen, I may have just made contact with the first female to go to SF selection. E6 I believe , out of Ft.Lee. She says she got an email explaining the decision to let women in combat roles etc, and gave her a phone number to call. She called and want her to attend the class in April, pending her physical. I'm in deep cover on this one so I'm trying to extract info without blowing it. Apparently there's another female whom responded, stationed at Bragg who won't be ready for the April selection. I'll update this as I get more.
April is the target month. I've heard they have a few packets in the works as they have been "heavily recruiting"...
I've been watching the traffic on my friends email webring concerning all of these issues taking place in the Marine Corps...non gender specific boot camp, changes in terminology, opening of positions.
Same response there from the retired guys from GO on down to grunt.
This was a fucking GENIUS political move.
pure genius.
With a woman running for POTUS not a single candidate is going to speak poorly about women in direct combat roles.
Not one of them will so much a breathe a word about rolling it back
Not a word.
Get one into training by spring and she will be six months into training by election day.
...then find ANYONE to get a question tossed at the republican candidate about feminizing the military and what he would do to fix it.
If the Republican candidate gets in and then roles it back the law suits and bad press will be more than he is willing to contend with because THOSE problems will hit right as his re-election bid starts to materialize.
Get the women vote in 2016 only to kick them out of Ranger Regiment and take away their Tridents and headgear?
Genius.
Game set match - mother fuckers
frostfire
01-09-2016, 19:19
Gentlemen, I may have just made contact with the first female to go to SF selection. E6 I believe , out of Ft.Lee. She says she got an email explaining the decision to let women in combat roles etc, and gave her a phone number to call. She called and want her to attend the class in April, pending her physical. I'm in deep cover on this one so I'm trying to extract info without blowing it. Apparently there's another female whom responded, stationed at Bragg who won't be ready for the April selection. I'll update this as I get more.
Met an E5 during Toy Drop who's planning to do the same. Actually skipped the Ranger one as she found out about SF opportunity. I am convinced there is no intention to enhance or boost SOF whatsoever, but all about "look-at-me-the-ceiling-breaker." She boasted about it too to the Dutch SGM. The look on his face was priceless. I guess with age comes wisdom as both he and I gave the politically "approved" response ;)
I don't get how they'd tinker with selection standards. Met a squared-away 9 years veteran, 2 REP, (excellent pistolero) legionnaire today who's about to start UW. He explained gates standards are up, 55lbs instead of 45 lbs, UBRR, etc. It will take one very special, gifted, and determined XX. I hope she earns it.
mark46th
01-09-2016, 23:52
"If I tell them I am a lesbian in a mans body do I get to use the female PT standards" Brush Okie
I must be a lesbian. I like to talk to women, have sex with them. Hell at one time in my life, I was probably the world's toughest lesbian.
bailaviborita
01-10-2016, 00:06
"If I tell them I am a lesbian in a mans body do I get to use the female PT standards" Brush Okie
I must be a lesbian. I like to talk to women, have sex with them. Hell at one time in my life, I was probably the world's toughest lesbian.
Lesbians like to take things inside their body for sexual pleasure. Men who fantasize about lesbians do not necessarily take things inside their body for their sexual pleasure. I personally would differentiate between those two categories... ;)
I guess with age comes wisdom as both he and I gave the politically "approved" response.
You mean, "Aw, that's so cute. Bless your little heart, Sweetie."?
Here's another thought. How many men will now be trying out SFQC (as well as Ranger School and the RR) who would never have done so before this. Who think, "if a girl can do this......"? The quality of those that attend, especially male, will now drop.
Old Dog New Trick
01-10-2016, 05:01
Here's another thought. How many men will now be trying out SFQC (as well as Ranger School and the RR) who would never have done so before this. Who think, "if a girl can do this......"? The quality of those that attend, especially male, will now drop.
Kinda takes the "special" out of Special Forces. I think they are going to have to come up with a new name. Also Last Hard Class needs to trademark his user name before it becomes the Last Class.
Not to denigrate the Special Olympics but it's not quite the caliber of the Olympics. But then again an Olympic Decathlon Gold Medalist was a woman trapped in a mans body.
bailaviborita
01-10-2016, 08:07
No one talks about the effect this will have on recruitment. We are having issues now- worse than normal....
joshua20
01-10-2016, 12:28
EO
Hell at one time in my life, I was probably the world's toughest lesbian.
You still are Mark...
Ok, there went the discount... :munchin
frostfire
01-10-2016, 13:05
post
Joshua20, i've made many mistakes in life and based on them, your post is TMI
Also having worked with majority female coworkers a little empathy goes a long way. This is open source domain. How would she perceive your post? Hell hath no fury...
Please dont take this the wrong way. Just looking out for your future success. You're still active. EO comes to mind
joshua20
01-10-2016, 13:28
Joshua20, i've made many mistakes in life and based on them, your post is TMI
Also having worked with majority female coworkers a little empathy goes a long way. This is open source domain. How would she perceive your post? Hell hath no fury...
Please dont take this the wrong way. Just looking out for your future success. You're still active. EO comes to mind
Good call , I obviously have strong opinions on this matter
bailaviborita
01-10-2016, 14:15
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/265294-marine-general-predicts-combat-standards-will-be-lowered-for-women
Marine Gen. John Kelly on Friday said he fears that commanders will be pressured by "agenda-driven people" in Washington to lower military standards in order to allow more women into combat positions.
"My greatest fear — and we see this happen a lot over the 45 years I've been in the Armed Forces is, right now they're saying we are not going to change any standards," said Kelly, who is retiring this month, at his last Pentagon briefing.
"So I think it will be the pressure for not probably the generals that are here now, but for the generals to come, and admirals, to lower standards because that's the only way it'll work in the way that I hear some people, particularly, the agenda-driven people here in Washington ... they want it to work," he said.
Kelly, commander of U.S. Southern Command, predicted the pressure to lower standards will come due to the low numbers of women who will end up in combat roles.
"There will be great pressure, whether it's 12 months from now, four years from now, because the question will be asked whether we've let women into these other roles; why aren't they staying in those other roles; why aren't they advancing as infantry people?"
"The answer is, I think will be, if we don't change the standards, it will be very, very difficult to have any numbers — any real numbers come into the infantry, or the Rangers or the SEALS," he said.
Kelly also said young women would be more prone to injuries due to the nature of infantry combat.
Could you imagine an ARSOF general saying this? Marines: last real branch where anyone has any nads...
WarriorDiplomat
01-10-2016, 16:23
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/265294-marine-general-predicts-combat-standards-will-be-lowered-for-women
Could you imagine an ARSOF general saying this? Marines: last real branch where anyone has any nads...
Nope, ARSOF Generals are timid and weak and not in a Sun Tzu way.
Could you imagine an ARSOF general saying this? Marines: last real branch where anyone has any nads...
Here is the rub...
I CAN imagine an ARSOF general officer saying something like that.
Inside of my head, I can hear the voice of a few different ARSOF Generals saying it.
I could hear the voice of a couple of different 3-Stars saying it.
I could even hear the voice of a four star saying that very thing.
"We're going to execute your guidance Sir, but that fact is, this is a bad idea. It is bad for the very women it is supposed to help. Women are going to suffer unneeded injuries because of this and we aren't going to get out moneys worth out of them over the course of a military career"
I could hear it crystal clear in my head.
THAT is why I am so disappointed. So many people that I really expected to to wave bullshit flags...
...didn't
CDRODA396
01-10-2016, 16:33
THAT is why I am so disappointed. So many people that I really expected to to wave bullshit flags...
...didn't
A lot of them have been run off in the past decade...quite possibly to set the conditions for what lays before us...:(
Here is the rub...
I CAN imagine an ARSOF general officer saying something like that.
Inside of my head, I can hear the voice of a few different Majr Generals saying it.
I could hear the voice of a couple of different 3-Stars saying it.
I could even hear the voice of a four star saying that very thing.
"We're going to execute your guidance Sir, but that fact is, this is a bad idea. It is bad for the very women it is supposed to help. Women are going to suffer unneeded injuries because of this and we aren't going to get out moneys worth out of them over the course of a military career"
I could hear it crystal clear in my head.
THAT is why I am so disappointed. So many people that I really expected to to wave bullshit flags...
...didn't
Do you think that they all thought that "someone else was going to fall on the sword any day now", and didn't.
Or everyone thought that it might get swept under the rug till after the election?
bailaviborita
01-11-2016, 06:55
Do you think that they all thought that "someone else was going to fall on the sword any day now", and didn't.
Or everyone thought that it might get swept under the rug till after the election?
I was told they would be wasting their time because it as going to happen no matter what. Cleveland had other priorities and Reeder didn't want to go out in a bad way (bad to the GO club). Sacolick opined something politically incorrect in front of Congress and got his pee pee whacked by McRaven. Wendt is only interested in making four stars. Who else is there? I heard Rogers would sell his soul to the lowest bidder...
Politics being what it is, this was going to happen during the Obama presidency. it isn't fair to blame THAT decision on military leaders. (just my opinion)
There is very little doubting that the libs are interested in pushing social agendas and not so much on the actually combat lethality of the force.
I also keep the opinion that sometimes, falling on your sword is NOT the only solution. sometimes falling on a sword endangers the entire force.
That is the beauty of the "oath"
I swore an oath to take orders...
...officers swore an oath to faithfully discharge the duties of the office.
I have always believed that there is a good reason that the oath of enlistment is just a little bit different form the one that an officer swears to.
An officers job is to give me GOOD orders to execute.
Politicians on the other hand, have an agenda that officers are expected to support.
A good officer can lead Soldiers through dark times.
A good officer doesn't tell hungry soldiers that food is a crutch.
A good officer motivates the men to work through the hunger.
A good officer doesn't feed you shit sandwiches by telling you they are a delicacy in some cultures.
A good officer has no choice but to feed his troops a shit sandwich at times.
Instead, a good officer sits down with his men, and tells them, "boys, this is a huge shit sandwich and we are going to have to eat it. Here, use this, its the strongest hot sauce I could find. The hot sauce is going to burn your tongue but it will kill the taste and once your eyes start to water and your nose starts running, it will kill the smell also. I'm really sorry we have to do this, but, eat up...
...Someone hand me a fork"
The other possibility is... This REALLY is a good idea. If this really is a good idea then the effort should be focused on explaining to all of the thick skulled dinosaurs all of the data points that show how good of an idea this really is.
That hasn't happened on ANY level. To the contrary, we have gotten LOTS of chatter and data points from higher that frame this as a bad idea.
Instead what we got sonded more like "hey guys, everyone else thinks this is a great idea. if you don't like it, you can leave. if it fails, its YOUR fucking fault. That is all. get back to work."
...Or maybe I just watched a different video.
You know, it occurs to me that what the Corps should do, with regard to meeting SecNav's demand for eliminating the word "man" from job titles, is change them all to "woman." Yes, all of them. Riflewomen, signalwoman, artillerywomen, ALL of them. The Army should do the same. And even where there was no "man" in the title, we should add "woman," anyway, just to make women feel accepted and happy: Tankwoman, Machinegunwoman.
And then, when no men volunteer, period, and we no longer have a ground combat capability, the country will have the defense it's demanded and deserves.
Posted on Facebook by Tom Kratman, emphasis added.
WarriorDiplomat
01-11-2016, 12:41
It amazes me when those who served the entire GWOT can't see the destruction and the failures along the way that encompasses the path we have taken to get here.
Leadership failures
Soldier failures
Destructive decisions to boost numbers
The dishonesty in the promotion system
The dishonesty in our reporting as it goes up
Putting the regiment on blast on media
Tell all generation
Me generation
For years we have allowed ourselves to deteriorate in culture, intelligence, planning, character, leadership.
When things such as this decision is set in motion on your watch under your leadership OWN IT
frostfire
01-11-2016, 13:52
I also keep the opinion that sometimes, falling on your sword is NOT the only solution. sometimes falling on a sword endangers the entire force.
That is the beauty of the "oath"
I swore an oath to take orders...
...officers swore an oath to faithfully discharge the duties of the office.
I have always believed that there is a good reason that the oath of enlistment is just a little bit different form the one that an officer swears to.
An officers job is to give me GOOD orders to execute.
Politicians on the other hand, have an agenda that officers are expected to support.
A good officer can lead Soldiers through dark times.
A good officer doesn't tell hungry soldiers that food is a crutch.
A good officer motivates the men to work through the hunger.
A good officer doesn't feed you shit sandwiches by telling you they are a delicacy in some cultures.
A good officer has no choice but to feed his troops a shit sandwich at times.
Instead, a good officer sits down with his men, and tells them, "boys, this is a huge shit sandwich and we are going to have to eat it. Here, use this, its the strongest hot sauce I could find. The hot sauce is going to burn your tongue but it will kill the taste and once your eyes start to water and your nose starts running, it will kill the smell also. I'm really sorry we have to do this, but, eat up...
...Someone hand me a fork"
Thank you for the education, Billy
RoninSpartan
02-02-2016, 14:37
They better start an EO brigade. The Drama and accusations are going to fly. Commanders are going to become soft and our forces will weaken.
Badger52
02-02-2016, 19:33
The top Army and Marine Corps generals told senators Tuesday that it will take up to three years to fully integrate women into all combat jobs, adding that women also should have to register for the draft.
You go, Girl! (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/02/02/generals-say-women-should-have-to-register-for-draft.html?intcmp=hplnws)
:cool:
Still no females on the Service Academy Football squads.
Some West Point female was on Jeopardy the other night and said the new class was around 30% female.
Class of 2019 (current freshmen) entered with 23%. No numbers available yet for Class of 2020. Apparently math isn't her area of expertise.
Class of 2019 (current freshmen) entered with 23%. No numbers available yet for Class of 2020. Apparently math isn't her area of expertise.
Well she said she was a roads scholar :munchin
WarriorDiplomat
02-05-2016, 14:06
Do you think that they all thought that "someone else was going to fall on the sword any day now", and didn't.
Or everyone thought that it might get swept under the rug till after the election?
Either way they are shiftless non believers, if Generals are so weak in character to make a stand in spite of the Agenda then they lack moral courage no leader should be waiting until someone else makes a move and turtle up hoping someone else steps up. Just think if lacking moral courage was captured on the NCOER you and I would be QMP'd, get a NO on page 1 of any of the army values blocks expect a pink slip.
WarriorDiplomat
02-05-2016, 14:20
Here's another thought. How many men will now be trying out SFQC (as well as Ranger School and the RR) who would never have done so before this. Who think, "if a girl can do this......"? The quality of those that attend, especially male, will now drop.
The ones who are joining now of the few who are, are liberal enlightened ones is my experienced guess the real men the warrior stock want no part of feminism and liberal agendas.
Speaking of warrior stock can anyone explain what happened to the Viking gene, where did it go??
The irony is the strategic need to put your biggest and baddest warriors out their as our projection of power through their presence is being lost with this bad decision. The irony is as we weaken our force and replace barrel chested warriors with enlightened libs the enemy just like nature intended will know we are weak by our significantly weaker appearing presence will see opportunity.......relative dominance on the ground or in a room is as important as a world leader telling another not to continue with their actions or their will be consequences. Diplomacy without military might is dead.
there will still be "barrel chested" warriors on the battlefield...
...and some of them will even be able to breastfeed children
Have any of you jokers ever tried to carry a baby on your hip while doing the manual of arms?
...I didnt think so
"XX"
..........the genetic code of the new era of warrior monks
PedOncoDoc
02-06-2016, 08:11
Still no females on the Service Academy Football squads.
Should the academy leadership just assign an all- female cadet football squad and justify it by saying it's clearly what military leadership wants?
The first televised game would be a brutally honest wake up call for the social justice warriors looking to play equality with the military.
I have no problem with women in any MOS as long as there is but one standard. You can’t lower standards to accommodate a female in a position that requires a standard in order to do the job. I want to see a female living 100% the same standards to include no separate physical criteria. No special accommodations as in living environment and hygiene. The physical requirements are in place because of the position requires these in order to fulfill the mission. That is why many men applied for these special operations positions but only a few were up to the rigorous physical and psychological criteria. If there is a separate lower standard for a group would that not create a weaker total unit? Would like to see a women go a month in the bush without a shower and living in a hole in the wall somewhere in Afghanistan or Africa. See how they do on a COP for a month living with a bunch of yahoos with no special accommodations. See after that if they can cut it.
So one standard for all. And if a female can live up to the same living conditions, same physical abilities and same position standards they deserve the same opportunity.
:lifter
Either way they are shiftless non believers, if Generals are so weak in character to make a stand in spite of the Agenda then they lack moral courage no leader should be waiting until someone else makes a move and turtle up hoping someone else steps up. Just think if lacking moral courage was captured on the NCOER you and I would be QMP'd, get a NO on page 1 of any of the army values blocks expect a pink slip.
Maybe we would have room to capture that if we didn't have to dedicate 2 lines to SHARP in order to appease the feminist agenda and the rape hoaxers.
I have no problem with women in any MOS as long as there is but one standard. You can’t lower standards to accommodate a female in a position that requires a standard in order to do the job. I want to see a female living 100% the same standards to include no separate physical criteria. No special accommodations as in living environment and hygiene. The physical requirements are in place because of the position requires these in order to fulfill the mission. That is why many men applied for these special operations positions but only a few were up to the rigorous physical and psychological criteria. If there is a separate lower standard for a group would that not create a weaker total unit? Would like to see a women go a month in the bush without a shower and living in a hole in the wall somewhere in Afghanistan or Africa. See how they do on a COP for a month living with a bunch of yahoos with no special accommodations. See after that if they can cut it.
So one standard for all. And if a female can live up to the same living conditions, same physical abilities and same position standards they deserve the same opportunity.
:lifter
While some of your points are valid.........you fail to address the social issue of integrating women into smaller, elite cohesive units. The emmasculization of the ODA has already become prevelant in the last 7 years, and will only continue through this "fundamental transformation".
Personally, the social issues of integration are as much of a danger as the lowering of standards. You introduce distractions, resentment and contempt all whilst walking on eggshells in order to avoid the EO firestorm that is to come the minute she doesn't like the way she was treated.
Those of you who choose to make the "standard" argument need to start considering the other effects other than if she can just "carry the load".
Im more worried that my Junior 18B is now more focused on banging her behind the ISU-90.
Badger52
02-12-2016, 10:00
Im more worried that my Junior 18B is now more focused on banging her behind the ISU-90.Yup.
That would certainly foster unit cohesiveness.
PedOncoDoc
02-12-2016, 10:18
Yup.
That would certainly foster unit cohesiveness.
Only if the rest of the team joined in...
:D
frostfire
02-12-2016, 10:24
Only if the rest of the team joined in...
:D
OFF YOU GO TO EO/SHARP REEDUCATION CAMP! Oh wait....
sigh...
Having personally witnessed the devastation that infidelity causes to the betrayed spouse AND the children, I weep for the future broken families and relationships.
You may criticize the regime, but the Chinese (and Dionysus) got one thing right. A person's harmony to the family --> city harmony --> nation harmony
Last hard class
02-13-2016, 10:26
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwis67b1kvXKAhVW8mMKHXOcDoQQFggjMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhosted.ap.org%2Fdynamic%2Fstories %2FU%2FUS_ARMY_RECRUITING_WOMEN%3FSITE%3DAP%26SECT ION%3DHOME%26TEMPLATE%3DDEFAULT&usg=AFQjCNHPfYsc79hSZB0QjxJJHlWTchzYkA
And the slow flush downward continues:
"While the tests coincide with the campaign to bring women into combat fields, military officials note that setting specific physical standards for all jobs may prevent some men from getting into certain infantry or armor posts if they don't qualify."
That's called a reverse sale where I come from.
LHC
PedOncoDoc
02-13-2016, 11:28
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwis67b1kvXKAhVW8mMKHXOcDoQQFggjMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhosted.ap.org%2Fdynamic%2Fstories %2FU%2FUS_ARMY_RECRUITING_WOMEN%3FSITE%3DAP%26SECT ION%3DHOME%26TEMPLATE%3DDEFAULT&usg=AFQjCNHPfYsc79hSZB0QjxJJHlWTchzYkA
And the slow flush downward continues:
"While the tests coincide with the campaign to bring women into combat fields, military officials note that setting specific physical standards for all jobs may prevent some men from getting into certain infantry or armor posts if they don't qualify."
That's called a reverse sale where I come from.
LHC
That's called standards in my book - if those guys don't qualify, that's on them.
Last hard class
02-13-2016, 11:49
That's called standards in my book - if those guys don't qualify, that's on them.
Once again, my inability to properly communicate has come back to bite me. My apologies. I assure you I'm not the least bit concerned about some doughboys who can't pass certain physical standards required for their MOS.
LHC
That's called standards in my book - if those guys don't qualify, that's on them.
The difference is that in many cases the men that don't physically qualify right off the street can be trained and conditioned into qualifying shape. Seen it and supervised it in infantry units.
The difference is that in many cases the men that don't physically qualify right off the street can be trained and conditioned into qualifying shape.
Indeed...
...and according to current guidance, if these new infantry types are NOT successful after further training and conditioning, then it is a small unit leader failure.
It's "your" fault.... not hers
The beatings will continue until morale improves
WarriorDiplomat
02-14-2016, 15:21
Indeed...
...and according to current guidance, if these new infantry types are NOT successful after further training and conditioning, then it is a small unit leader failure.
It's "your" fault.... not hers
Well we have been systematically eliminating personal responsibility from the ranks for quite a while this is the next step. The privates will have the power to ruin his leaders by refusing to follow.
All I can say is keep your combat skills sharp our citizens will need its warrior elite when its P.C. military unable to fight and its lib soldiers by job title only lack the stomach and will to close with and destroy the enemy. I hate to discourage people from serving but until this mess is worked out I would run from recruiters or go down with our woefully incapable military.
Our next POTUS is not going to have a strong, powerful and respected military behind his negotiations. I can hear China, N. Korea and Russia at the tables saying "Your military used to be great, powerful and feared but today it is weak yes we saw the Iranians capture your superior navy boat and its crew with the fear in their faces we are aware of your weakness so I dare your military to stop us as we retake the former USSR and since you can't back the EU we will pull them in as well they are socialist anyway we will own all the trade out of the ME and Africa?? we will let our Chinese comrades have since they practically have it anyway"
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/15/us-special-forces-not-ready-to-integrate-women-rep/?page=2
And this little "shocker" from Votel:
"One challenge will be indoctrination programs to make sure skeptical male commandos accept them."
WTF? I guess they think a bunch of SHARP type briefings will change everyone's mind. Or they plan on waterboarding everyone into submission.
And this from Elaine Donnelly:
“Men in special operations forces do indeed have another reason to feel stressed, for reasons worse than budget cuts and stepped-up deployments,” she said. “Vertical cohesion, meaning mutual trust up and down the chain of command, has been shattered by USSOCOM leaders who are failing to defend their interests at a time when Pentagon authorities are imposing social experiments that will cost lives and missions in special operations forces.”
Maybe she should be in charge of SOCOM.
WarriorDiplomat
02-16-2016, 06:02
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/15/us-special-forces-not-ready-to-integrate-women-rep/?page=2
And this little "shocker" from Votel:
"One challenge will be indoctrination programs to make sure skeptical male commandos accept them."
WTF? I guess they think a bunch of SHARP type briefings will change everyone's mind. Or they plan on waterboarding everyone into submission.
And this from Elaine Donnelly:
“Men in special operations forces do indeed have another reason to feel stressed, for reasons worse than budget cuts and stepped-up deployments,” she said. “Vertical cohesion, meaning mutual trust up and down the chain of command, has been shattered by USSOCOM leaders who are failing to defend their interests at a time when Pentagon authorities are imposing social experiments that will cost lives and missions in special operations forces.”
Maybe she should be in charge of SOCOM.
She gets it but GEN "sell his troops out for a MACOM" Votel wants to indoctrinate the over 80%
You guys are all just mad because women are going to use the new and improved standards to prove they are better than you.
bailaviborita
02-17-2016, 05:48
They just don't understand all the privileges they enjoy. If they had a degree from the "right" kind f school they'd realize they most likely enjoy male privilege, passing privilege, ableist privilege, gender privilege, religious privilege, and many others like: language (the ability to talk using correct English), non-identity (the freedom to not be obsessed with the various identity groups the Left says you should be), and law-abiding (the ability to avoid criminal behavior). There are many others yet to be discovered - please feel free while you're sitting in a boring briefing about us winning in Iraq or a Sharps briefing- try to come up with some more. It's the game the whole family should play- especially since if you have kids they'll surely get mandatory classes on this stuff...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/15/us-special-forces-not-ready-to-integrate-women-rep/?page=2
And this little "shocker" from Votel:
"One challenge will be indoctrination programs to make sure skeptical male commandos accept them."
WTF? I guess they think a bunch of SHARP type briefings will change everyone's mind. Or they plan on waterboarding everyone into submission.
And this from Elaine Donnelly:
“Men in special operations forces do indeed have another reason to feel stressed, for reasons worse than budget cuts and stepped-up deployments,” she said. “Vertical cohesion, meaning mutual trust up and down the chain of command, has been shattered by USSOCOM leaders who are failing to defend their interests at a time when Pentagon authorities are imposing social experiments that will cost lives and missions in special operations forces.”
Maybe she should be in charge of SOCOM.
On top of that little gem, im sure most of you saw the new guidance on tax free re-enlistments, and the regulations for traveling to areas in which said SM could benefit from a tax free re-enlistment for a limited period of time. The new buzz phrase is that "pallet riding is NOT a valid reason".
So now we have to coordinate for 45 days in order to Re-enlist tax free?
Im guessing that someone has expressed concern that we aren't paying our "fair share".
Or maybe they are feeling the "bern".
Just another great example of how our leadership really has the best "interest" of its force in mind.
The lack thereof trust that most of us have for our senior leaders is borderline historic. Its pretty sad that the agenda of the administration has trickled all the way down to the team room level and has more of a negative effect on morale than anything I have ever seen.
At least during the Clinton years, when we didn't have money.........we didn't have computers either. Now we don't have any money, yet have to act as administrative specialists 80% of the time taking numerous CYA classes that are mandated and time out several times before actually spitting out a worthless certificate that sits in a file cabinet in Battalion awaiting inspection by someone who's employment is justified by placing an overemphasis on administrative tasks.
WarriorDiplomat
02-20-2016, 13:53
They just don't understand all the privileges they enjoy. If they had a degree from the "right" kind f school they'd realize they most likely enjoy male privilege, passing privilege, ableist privilege, gender privilege, religious privilege, and many others like: language (the ability to talk using correct English), non-identity (the freedom to not be obsessed with the various identity groups the Left says you should be), and law-abiding (the ability to avoid criminal behavior). There are many others yet to be discovered - please feel free while you're sitting in a boring briefing about us winning in Iraq or a Sharps briefing- try to come up with some more. It's the game the whole family should play- especially since if you have kids they'll surely get mandatory classes on this stuff...
So much choice today that they have no room for science, common sense or altruism.
I am actually writing a research paper on this exact same topic. The professor has allowed for expert opinions to be used as citations in the research paper. If any of the QPs would like to give an expert opinion on why allowing women in combat jobs would be detrimental to small-unit cohesion, physiological differences between men and women, the actual standards for a woman trying out for a SF job, getting through SFAS, SFQC, etc. (Real names will not be used in the paper, I will just use rank, unit and occupation. I explained to the professor that SF soldiers are still out in the field in danger and conducting secretive missions for the U.S.)
I would love some help if anyone is interested because it has been hard to cite sources for this paper due to the fact 95% of the articles I find are pro-women in combat jobs (liberal media :rolleyes:) I would really appreciate the help.
P.S. Great chance to really piss off all the liberal pro-Bernie Sanders kids in the class. :lifter:D
...The professor has allowed for expert opinions to be used as citations in the research paper. If any of the QPs would like to give an expert opinion .....
Why, if women were truly the equal of men when the going gets tough - how come women aren't integrated into the service academy's football squads?
Shouldn't integration and team building start there?
BrokenSwitch
03-09-2016, 16:54
Cuba, are you familiar with the Marine Corps' month-long experiment?
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-marines-infantry-experiment/71979146/
This article isn't very detailed, but Google can help you find more about not just the failure of this experiment, but also the political decision by the Secretary of the Navy to completely ignore the results.
Cuba,
Links below took about 2 minutes to find - this should get you started - keep looking.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/12/12684555-women-in-the-infantry-forget-about-it-says-female-marine-officer?lite
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2015/0911/Why-Marines-unlike-Army-and-Navy-are-so-against-women-in-combat
http://www.businessinsider.com/female-troops-against-women-in-combat-tammy-duckworth-katie-petronio-2013-2
http://www.stripes.com/news/marines-women-in-combat-study-flawed-researchers-say-1.375210
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R42075.pdf
http://www.cmrlink.org/content/women-in-combat
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/26/army-stats-show-that-women-are-injured-twice-as-of/?page=all
ETA: took another minute and found another worth a look. Good luck.
http://journalistsresource.org/studies/society/gender-society/women-military-research-roundup
Why, if women were truly the equal of men when the going gets tough - how come women aren't integrated into the service academy's football squads?
Shouldn't integration and team building start there?
And make the female freshmen box both genders in their weight class. They could also integrate the men's and women's rugby/lax/boxing intercollegiate teams. Lots of opportunities to be a 'shining light on a hill' for gender integration in DOD, but it won't ever happen because reality is a harsh mistress that doesn't conform to the approved narrative.
PedOncoDoc
03-10-2016, 08:59
And make the female freshmen box both genders in their weight class. They could also integrate the men's and women's rugby/lax/boxing intercollegiate teams. Lots of opportunities to be a 'shining light on a hill' for gender integration in DOD, but it won't ever happen because reality is a harsh mistress that doesn't conform to the approved narrative.
Especially when that reality is aired on national television.....
ddoering
03-10-2016, 10:33
Except that they will then get brow beat for hitting a girl.
PedOncoDoc
03-10-2016, 11:37
Except that they will then get brow beat for hitting a girl.
Not a girl - a soldier - isn't that the whole intention of this social experiment?
bailaviborita
03-11-2016, 05:59
Execute order just went out (approval of integration plans).
http://www.army.mil/standto/archive_2016-03-10?s_cid=standto
The Army is implementing full integration through five lines of effort:
Updating physical and administrative screening standards
Managing talent to select, train, and promote the best qualified Soldiers
Building integrated units
Educating Soldiers and leaders and communicating on how gender integration increases the readiness of the Army
Continually assessing integration strategies to successfully posture the force
http://www.defense.gov/News-Article-View/Article/690381/dod-gives-final-go-ahead-to-open-all-military-jobs-to-women?source=GovDelivery
Educating Soldiers and leaders and communicating on how gender integration increases the readiness of the Army
Indoctrination. What a bunch of nonsense.:rolleyes:
Slight thread drift from gender to race indoctrination that has moved from our schools to our military. The divisiveness and indoctrination appear to know no bounds with the current political "leadership."
The "isms" we're wrong then and they are wrong now.
Well, at least they admit to the unquestionable target of their bigotry for all to see.
Judicial Watch: Documents Reveal US Army Indoctrinated Soldiers on Dangers of ‘White Privilege’
MARCH 09, 2016
Judicial Watch
Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch announced today that it obtained documents from the United States Department of the Army revealing that in April 2015, 400 soldiers in the 67th Signal Battalion at Fort Gordon, Georgia, were subjected to a “white privilege” briefing, including a PowerPoint presentation instructing the attendees: “Our society attaches privilege to being white and male and heterosexual …”
“Outrageous – that is the only word to describe this type of raw racist indoctrination,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “The Obama administration undermines the morale of our military with morally repugnant ‘equal opportunity training’ that makes many soldiers feel unwelcome because they are the wrong sex, race, religion or aren’t part of a politically correct group.”
<snip>
http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-documents-reveal-us-army-indoctrinated-soldiers-on-dangers-of-white-privilege/
mark46th
03-11-2016, 09:01
I really don't think that women will be a problem. One of the major Special Forces qualities/talents is the ability to improvise as the situation changes. Plan something for six months with your wife/girlfriend then, just as you are walking out the door , tell her plans have changed and you are going somewhere else. Tell me how that works out for you...
DIYPatriot
03-11-2016, 09:53
I really don't think that women will be a problem. One of the major Special Forces qualities/talents is the ability to improvise as the situation changes. Plan something for six months with your wife/girlfriend then, just as you are walking out the door , tell her plans have changed and you are going somewhere else. Tell me how that works out for you...
Ha! That was good and while it was funny there's a good bit of truth to that. I can't even change anything that's been planned for 30 min without my domestic overseer giving me the crazy eye.
Cuba, are you familiar with the Marine Corps' month-long experiment?
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-marines-infantry-experiment/71979146/
This article isn't very detailed, but Google can help you find more about not just the failure of this experiment, but also the political decision by the Secretary of the Navy to completely ignore the results.
BrokenSwitch,
Thank you for the article. Most of my research actually came from that Marine Corps study and a study by the US ARMY Medical Research department study on a 12 month deployment on a Stryker Brigade Combat Team.
Here is a piece from my paper from this study which is pretty interesting and adds some information to this thread on women in combat.
"Nonetheless, recent research by the U.S. Army Medical Research department shows the evidence clearly points out that women get injured much more frequently than men when completing the exact same tasks. This certainly brings to light the differences in the physiology between a man and a woman. The purpose of the study was to describe physical demands and musculoskeletal injuries (MSIs) among male and female soldiers of the 4/23 Infantry Battalion and 402nd Brigade Support Battalion. in a Stryker Brigade Combat Team during a 12-month deployment to Afghanistan. (Military Medicine, Vol. 180, Pg. 127) Here is a direct quote from the Military Medicine report on the results from page 127 on this study “The primary duty women engaged in was office work (47%), and for men, it was dismounted patrols (29%) (Fig. 2). Out of 536 men, 120 had MSIs (22%) resulted in limited duty. Out of 57 women, 22 had MSIs (39%) resulting in limited duty days. The mean limited duty time for women was 7.45 days/injury and for men, it was 12.93 days/injury. For men, the most commonly injured body region was the low back (32%) and for the women, it was also the low back (22%) and foot and ankle (22%) (Fig. 3). The self-reported activity associated with MSI for women was physical training (PT) (25%) and for men, it was contact with the enemy (23%)”
Why, if women were truly the equal of men when the going gets tough - how come women aren't integrated into the service academy's football squads?
Shouldn't integration and team building start there?
Pete,
Thank you for this quote. This is exactly what I am looking for to add into the paper. Common sense and right to the point.
Cuba,
Links below took about 2 minutes to find - this should get you started - keep looking.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/12/12684555-women-in-the-infantry-forget-about-it-says-female-marine-officer?lite
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2015/0911/Why-Marines-unlike-Army-and-Navy-are-so-against-women-in-combat
http://www.businessinsider.com/female-troops-against-women-in-combat-tammy-duckworth-katie-petronio-2013-2
http://www.stripes.com/news/marines-women-in-combat-study-flawed-researchers-say-1.375210
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R42075.pdf
http://www.cmrlink.org/content/women-in-combat
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/26/army-stats-show-that-women-are-injured-twice-as-of/?page=all
ETA: took another minute and found another worth a look. Good luck.
http://journalistsresource.org/studies/society/gender-society/women-military-research-roundup
tonyz,
Thank you for the articles, I have used Katie Petronio in my paper and most of the articles are repeat information of articles and periodicals I have used for this paper. I really want to thank you for this one right here, https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R42075.pdf. This is a treasure that I will implement into the paper. Thanks again.
I am actually writing a research paper on this exact same topic. The professor has allowed for expert opinions to be used as citations in the research paper. If any of the QPs would like to give an expert opinion on why allowing women in combat jobs would be detrimental to small-unit cohesion, physiological differences between men and women, the actual standards for a woman trying out for a SF job, getting through SFAS, SFQC, etc. (Real names will not be used in the paper, I will just use rank, unit and occupation. I explained to the professor that SF soldiers are still out in the field in danger and conducting secretive missions for the U.S.)
I would love some help if anyone is interested because it has been hard to cite sources for this paper due to the fact 95% of the articles I find are pro-women in combat jobs (liberal media :rolleyes:) I would really appreciate the help.
P.S. Great chance to really piss off all the liberal pro-Bernie Sanders kids in the class. :lifter:D Look at the field of construction and sports when it comes to profitability....
The military does NOT generate a profit unless you're a private defense contractor.
bailaviborita
03-14-2016, 20:26
I am actually writing a research paper on this exact same topic.
- SF teams are largely autonomous. The politics of the sexual harassment industry (SHARP) will potentially kill any team that has a woman on it for many reasons as noted by Anna Simons http://warontherocks.com/2014/11/heres-why-women-in-combat-units-is-a-bad-idea/ - anthropologist and wife of an SF soldier. There is no trust between men and women in the Army right now because of the lynch mob mentality out to get any man who utters something that someone might find offensive. No man that I know ever counsels a woman alone- or does anything alone with one. Oh- and let's not forget the issues with deployment hook-ups (remember Petraeus?). If you've ever served in a NATO HQs deployed and watched the insanity as everyone hooks up like it was Spring Break...
- Most countries we deploy SF to can't handle women instructing men or hanging out with them in the bush. This could affect our foreign policy --- what do we do in the event of an international incident? http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Star-pilot-s-reluctant-lawsuit-against-Air-Force-2882935.php
- The US Army is really all about being politically correct. They are about outcomes- not opportunity. If they were about opportunity then Airborne School would still be hard like it was prior to women going there and we wouldn't have separate PT standards. And separation boards wouldn't be kicking out good male soldiers and keeping terrible females to meet quotas. And Ranger School wouldn't have had so much attention... So- no-one has ANY trust that the leaders will just allow women to try out--- no- everyone is pretty sure that no-one will rest until there are a certain number/percentage in.
- The real motivation behind all of this is social change. http://smallwarsjournal.com/print/32801 This is very different than what our allies have done. Instead of just opening jobs to women- American interest groups are trying to drive out the traditional heterosexual male culture in this country- starting with the military...
Trapper John
03-15-2016, 09:17
- SF teams are largely autonomous. The politics of the sexual harassment industry (SHARP) will potentially kill any team that has a woman on it for many reasons as noted by Anna Simons http://warontherocks.com/2014/11/heres-why-women-in-combat-units-is-a-bad-idea/ - anthropologist and wife of an SF soldier. There is no trust between men and women in the Army right now because of the lynch mob mentality out to get any man who utters something that someone might find offensive. No man that I know ever counsels a woman alone- or does anything alone with one. Oh- and let's not forget the issues with deployment hook-ups (remember Petraeus?). If you've ever served in a NATO HQs deployed and watched the insanity as everyone hooks up like it was Spring Break...
- Most countries we deploy SF to can't handle women instructing men or hanging out with them in the bush. This could affect our foreign policy --- what do we do in the event of an international incident? http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Star-pilot-s-reluctant-lawsuit-against-Air-Force-2882935.php
- The US Army is really all about being politically correct. They are about outcomes- not opportunity. If they were about opportunity then Airborne School would still be hard like it was prior to women going there and we wouldn't have separate PT standards. And separation boards wouldn't be kicking out good male soldiers and keeping terrible females to meet quotas. And Ranger School wouldn't have had so much attention... So- no-one has ANY trust that the leaders will just allow women to try out--- no- everyone is pretty sure that no-one will rest until there are a certain number/percentage in.
- The real motivation behind all of this is social change. http://smallwarsjournal.com/print/32801 This is very different than what our allies have done. Instead of just opening jobs to women- American interest groups are trying to drive out the traditional heterosexual male culture in this country- starting with the military...
I guess you don't mean "hook-up" as in "Stand Up, Check Equipment, Hook Up, Check Static Lines,..." :D
hoooook uuuuup
check condom siiiize
check STD status
...sound off for HIV check
stand by...
TXGringo
03-20-2016, 15:15
The 75th Ranger Regiment's "Blue Book" of standards was recently modified to include gender neutral language and the addition of an entire sub-section regarding "pregnant Rangers."
Streck-Fu
03-23-2016, 07:51
Marines: last real branch where anyone has any nads...
Maybe not....LINK (http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/03/18/all-marines-unconscious-bias-training-women-join-infantry.html)
Marines across the Corps will be challenged on their unconscious prejudices and presuppositions as women get the opportunity to become grunts for the first time.
The Marine Corps is rolling out mandatory training for all Marines before the first future female rifleman hits boot camp, aiming to set conditions for a smooth transition and head off cultural resistance.
Mobile training teams will be dispatched to installations across the Corps throughout May and June to offer a two-day seminar to majors and lieutenant colonels, Col. Anne Weinberg, deputy director of the Marine Corps Force Innovation Office, told reporters Thursday. Those officers will then train the Marines under them.
Topics include unconscious bias, which focuses on how people prejudge others based on factors such as race and gender, and principles of institutional change. The seminar will also walk officers through the elements of the Corps' plan for opening ground combat jobs to women and include vignettes featuring challenges units might encounter.
those Marines have already been educated on what it means to be a Marine...
...now it seems they need to be REeducated
Re-education - now in new 'millennial' flavor as well as our crowd favorite, 'sugar free newspeak' flavor
I'd say words mean things, but not even the phrase "words mean things" means what it used to mean.
It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If 'is' means 'is and never has been' that's one thing -
-Madam Secretary's Husband Bill
Putting women on the front line is dangerous PC meddling. We will pay for it in blood
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/05/putting-women-on-the-front-line-is-dangerous-pc-meddling-we-will/
An interesting article from an office on the other side of the pond.
On the "not lower standards" line there is an interesting gem from lower in the story..
"...The damage will be budgetary as well as tactical. Even in the tranquillity of a peacetime barracks, three RAF women sustained spinal and pelvic injuries due to over-striding to keep pace with the men on parade.
They were awarded £100,000 each. The RAF’s remedy was to shorten stride-length and place women at the front of the squad to set a reduced pace for the men – an ominous indication of things to come for the infantry..."
Dangerous PC meddling? I guess that's only in the Brit Army, because that's not what our leadership is saying...
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/04/04/fort-stewart-general-women-in-combat-jobs-will-improve-army.html
Associated Press | Apr 04, 2016 | by Russ Bynum
FORT STEWART, Ga. -- Despite some initial challenges, allowing female soldiers to serve in combat jobs that have long been closed to women should ultimately "make the Army stronger," the top general at Fort Stewart said Friday.
Maj. Gen. Jim Rainey, commander of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, discussed the upcoming change during a question-and-answer session with reporters...
ddoering
04-06-2016, 07:39
High ranking tool spouting the party line. My grand kids will never serve if I have my way.
I'm waiting for the West Point football coach to say, "having women on our team should ultimately make us stronger".
Dangerous PC meddling? I guess that's only in the Brit Army, because that's not what our leadership is saying...
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/04/04/fort-stewart-general-women-in-combat-jobs-will-improve-army.html
Associated Press | Apr 04, 2016 | by Russ Bynum
FORT STEWART, Ga. -- Despite some initial challenges, allowing female soldiers to serve in combat jobs that have long been closed to women should ultimately "make the Army stronger," the top general at Fort Stewart said Friday.
Maj. Gen. Jim Rainey, commander of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, discussed the upcoming change during a question-and-answer session with reporters...
This kind of thinking can certainly get him closer to that third star.
The Reaper
04-06-2016, 18:12
Dangerous PC meddling? I guess that's only in the Brit Army, because that's not what our leadership is saying...
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/04/04/fort-stewart-general-women-in-combat-jobs-will-improve-army.html
Associated Press | Apr 04, 2016 | by Russ Bynum
FORT STEWART, Ga. -- Despite some initial challenges, allowing female soldiers to serve in combat jobs that have long been closed to women should ultimately "make the Army stronger," the top general at Fort Stewart said Friday.
Maj. Gen. Jim Rainey, commander of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, discussed the upcoming change during a question-and-answer session with reporters...
Kool-Aid drinker, looking for his next promotion.
TR
Kool-Aid drinker, looking for his next promotion.
TR
Enlightened leader. A thinking warrior who is prepared to confidently and competently lead Americans into battle in the new century.
That damn West Point football coach can't hold a candle...he is mainly concerned with winning. How short sighted of him...
I wonder if it gets easier every time he articulates that position.....
Well here is the firs one to enlist into the infantry.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-officer-sworn-armys-first-202200259.html
A police officer from Louisiana has become the Army's first ever female infantry recruit.
Tammy Grace Barnett, 25, had her swearing in on Thursday at Military Entrance Processing Station in Shreveport. The historic moment came just days after the processing center got word that women would now be allowed to sign up for combat jobs.
"They told me that I would be the first female in history to go infantry in the military," the Robeline native told KSLA.
According to an Army news release, Barnett first visited a recruiting station in November with a plan to join military police.
"But infantry is similar, and they are more on the front lines, like law enforcement here, and I said that's what I want to do," she said.
"I have served the front lines in my hometown ... and now I am going to serve the front lines for my country.
“I want to deploy, see action, and I definitely want to go to Airborne school.”
Barnett will head to basic training in June 2017 at Fort Benning in Georgia. The Army explained that the 14-month delay "is to allow the Army to properly prepare for new trainees by having trained female officers and [noncommissioned officers] in position."
In the meantime, Barnett said she hopes other women will follow her lead.
"If I can do it, they can do it too," she said.
So right from the get go she'll be special "... The Army explained that the 14-month delay "is to allow the Army to properly prepare for new trainees by having trained female officers and [noncommissioned officers] in position."..."
Badger52
04-10-2016, 12:14
"If I can do it, they can do it too," she said.Do what... sign your name?
The Reaper
04-10-2016, 14:36
I will guarantee she cannot satisfactorily perform the basic duties of a rifleman, regardless of her LEO experiences.
A dollar to a doughnut says she will be broken and disabled within 4 years.
After she has proven that with sufficient assistance (and lowering of standards), a woman can do anything a man can do.
"Day seven at the JRTC and it showed on the faces of the young infantrymen. Typical central Louisiana weather in November, the nights were turning, often marked by heavy rains. The platoon sergeant worked hard to keep the troops motivated and moving under their combat loads. No one wanted to be cold or wet, so the rucks were especially heavy. With ammo, rations, and water, each soldier carried well over 100 pounds of gear. After seven days of constant operations, the effects of that weight were showing. Even the fittest of the platoon were hollow-eyed with fatigue. Their reactions were slow and their minds fuzzy. They rucked up and moved on toward their next mission, an attack on a suspected strong point five clicks away. Less than 500 meters into the movement, the tired point man missed seeing movement ahead as he cleared the edge of a small grove. The opposing force (OPFOR) ambushed the platoon with complete surprise. No one survived.
Observation: The average rifle platoon soldier's load at the JRTC is 91 pounds."
I challenge anyone here, male or female, especially those who have never done this before, to put on a ruck containing 91 pounds of anything, including lightweight gear, and walk a few miles, even on level ground, much less up a steep and loose rock grade in terrain a mile or two above sea level.
Imagine that at any moment, an explosion might erupt, followed by long bursts of automatic fire, if you are unable to maintain vigilance while moving tactically.
By the way, this is the basic vanilla rifleman's load, not Spec Ops or anything exotic.
TR
The Reaper
04-10-2016, 15:03
"The Rifleman's Load in Afghanistan.
[Bear in mind that this is a basic issued load, devoid of creature comforts or hygiene items.]
10.1.1.3 The Rifleman
Description:
There is one Rifleman within each Fire Team of a Rifle Squad. As a member of the Fire Team, the Rifleman provides security within his assigned sector and engages targets of opportunity as directed by the Fire Team Leader.
The Rifleman is often called upon to serve on special teams, such as breaching, demolition, aid and litter, personnel under custody (PUC) search and control, and anti-armor/bunker teams.
The Rifleman carries perhaps the least casualty-producing weapon within the squad yet this allows the Rifleman more freedom of maneuver and the ability to carry additional ammunition for crew served weapon systems and/or
assist in transporting specialty equipment.
The Modern Warrior’s Combat Load--Dismounted Operations in Afghanistan
Common Tactical Tasks:
• Moves as a member of a Fire Team.
• Engages Targets.
• Enters and clears a room, hallway, stairwell as a member of a Fire Team.
• Enters and clears caves, tunnels, and man-made fortifications.
• Breaches and/or bypasses obstacles.
• Performs Security Checkpoint Operations as a member of a Fire Team.
• Searches personnel under custody.
Equipment Common to Riflemen:
A. Worn on Body/Uniform:
• M4 Carbine with PEQ-2 Laser/PAQ-4 Laser, ACOG/CCO, and 30 rounds of 5.56mm ball ammunition.
• Desert Camouflage Uniform with Infrared Tape on left sleeve (1”x1”).
• Desert Combat Boots.
• Dog Tags.
• ID Card.
• Undershirt.
• Socks.
• Tactical gloves.
• Interceptor Body Armor with two Small Arms Protective Inserts.
• Advanced Combat Helmet with night vision mounting plate.
• Rigger belt.
• Notebook and pen.
• Watch.
• Knee and elbow pads.
• Sun, Sand, and Dust type Goggles or Wiley-X Goggles.
• Folding Knife/Multi-tool.
B. Worn on Fighting Load Carrier/Interceptor Body Armor:
• MOLLE Fighting Load Carrier with modular MOLLE pouches.
• 180 rounds of 5.56mm ball ammunition.
• Bayonet.
• Fragmentation grenade.
• 64 ounces of water in two 1-quart canteens.
• 100 ounces of water in a hydration bladder.
• Casualty and witness cards.
• Flex cuffs for personnel under custody.
• Night vision equipment (PVS-14/PVS-7).
• Iodine tablets.
• Lensatic compass.
• Flashlight.
• Chemlight.
• First Aid dressing and pouch.
• Canteen Cup.
• Earplugs.
C. Carried in Assault Rucksack:
• MOLLE Assault Rucksack or commercial assault rucksack, with MOLLE attachments.
• 500ml intravenous fluids bag with starter kit.
• 70 ounces of water in a second hydration bladder.
• Two Meals, Ready to Eat (MREs).
• Poncho and/or Bivy Sack.
• Poncho liner.
• Undershirt.
• Spare batteries.
• Two pair of socks.
• Polypropylene or silk long sleeve undershirt.
• M4/M16 Rifle Cleaning Kit.
• Personal hygiene kit.
• Rubber gloves.
• Sling rope with two snap links.
D. Carried in Main Rucksack:
(Main rucksacks were rarely taken on operations during study)
• MOLLE main rucksack with Sleeping Bag Carrier or Large ALICE rucksack.
• Modular Sleeping Bag (one bag per two men).
• Long Polypropylene Underwear of Fleece Jacket and Bibs.
• Two Undershirts.
• Two pairs of socks.
• Cold Weather Gloves.
• Knit/Fleece Cap.
• Additional ammunition.
• Two Meals, Ready to Eat (MREs).
• Sleeping pad.
Special Equipment:
• Lock pick (B).
• Collapsible Riot Baton (B).
• Bolt cutters (C or D).
• Metal detecting wand (C or D).
• 60mm mortar round (C or D).
• Combat Lifesaver Kit (C).
• Personnel Under Custody (PUC) Kit (sand bags, flex cuffs, trash bags, PUC cards, rubber gloves) (C).
• AT4 Anti-armor Weapon. (C or D).
• SMAW-D Bunker Defeat Weapon. (C or D).
• Hooligan Tool. (C or D).
• Sledgehammer. (C or D).
• Entrenching Tool. (C or D).
• M18 Claymore Mine. (C or D).
• Pole-less Litter. (C or D).
• 200 rounds of 5.56mm linked ammunition for M249 SAW. (C or D).
Fighting Load = A+B
Approach March Load = A+B+C
Emergency Approach March Load = A+B+C+D
Average Mission Duration:
48-72 hours
Resupply Items:
Soldiers were resupplied with 2-3 MREs per day and up to 8 liters of water per day. When under fire, Soldiers could expect a resupply of their basic load of ammunition each day.
Duty Position: Rifleman
Average Fighting Load - 63 lbs
Average FL % Body Weight 35.9%
Average Approach March Load - 95 lbs
Average AML % Body Weight - 54.7%
Average Emergency Approach March Load - 124 lbs
Average EAML % Body Weight - 71.41%"
http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/modernwarriorload/ModernWarriorsCombatLoadReport.pdf
Again, this was an average for an Infantryman, but imagine moving tactically with this load, over all terrain, fighting and humping for a week or more without anything more for resupply than food, water, ammo, med supplies, and batteries.
This was the weight and load for a Riflemen. Many jobs in an Infantry Company require the solider to carry even more weight. For example, the EAML for an Assistant Machine Gunner is over 147 pounds. That is more than the average body weight allowed for most females (not a popular point to bring up). Hell, the AMG's Approach March Load of 121 pounds has to be humped ALL OF THE TIME. Anyone who cannot hump their share of the weight quickly becomes a burden as their equipment has to be carried by the remaining platoon members. THAT does not do much for cameraderie or respect, either.
There are no showers, and possibly no water for sanitation purposes for days or even weeks at the time.
Don't get me wrong, I love women.
I have a wife and daughter.
I do not want to see them trying to live this life as a pack mule. I was a strong, healthy young man and it injured me.
And for the very few who can make it briefly as a grunt, I predict a painful life afterwards to reflect on that misspent youth.
This is a social experiment which is going to be expensive and is inevitably doomed to fail.
I would like to challenge the Secretary of Defense and Secretary of the Army to jock up and hump this load in the box with a Rifle Platoon for a week to gain a little understanding of what their subordinates are expected to do, and what they are about to ask our women to do.
TR
frostfire
04-10-2016, 17:59
Will it be the ranger school haircut standards?
Heavens forbid she uses the potable water supply to wash her hair. The ladies did this during my my course. No one was amused. Imagine coming back tired, hungry, thirsty to refill your canteen and discover that.
Probably SHARP and EO complaints within a few weeks
ddoering
04-10-2016, 21:13
So right from the get go she'll be special "... The Army explained that the 14-month delay "is to allow the Army to properly prepare for new trainees by having trained female officers and [noncommissioned officers] in position."..."
She should get a Noble Prize. The precedent is already there.
So on a nice long foot patrol where are these women going to take a shit at? How about the men? I dont want to watch a woman do her business and sure as hell dont want one watching me. Go off by yourself in a combat zone? What could go wrong there? How about on a long patrol the female 11B starts her menstrual cycle and is out of tampons? Are tampons going to be part of the next resupply mission taking up room for ammo, water and other essental gear? I wonder if the academic types thought about these little problems in the field.
I guess we could air drop port-a-potties along the patrol route ahead of time. :rolleyes:
Guess I am just not enlightened.
They haven't thought that far ahead. They don't want logic to interfere with agenda. Besides that, the decision makers won't be affected by any of it...so they really don't care.
Reaper, I was an O/C at JRTC for two years. I had females admit to me that they tried to get pregnant to avoid the rotation. I can't imagine how it'll be when a shooting war is ongoing.
Most would NOT drink water so that they could avoid being uncomfortable urinating in front of/around men. Many (most) wound up getting a hoo-infection and would get pulled off the line.
The problem is not only one of physical endurance and strength, it is one of how long can you be nasty and food/water deprived and still be combat effective. Females simply have "issues" in this arena. Louisiana is a nasty place in the summer....but no-where as nasty as some of the battlefields in which we operate.
As many have already stated, this is purely political. To think that money, time and effort was spent to analyze something almost every individual in combat arms already knew since, um.... since a male pseudo-monkey was able to use a femur for a club. War has damn near been the natural state of mankind; imposing one's will on another or taking their shit. If there was ever a point in time in the last 60,000 years that an army gained some sort of distinct advantage by having women as a fighters, don't you think someone would have used them before now? I'm not talking about the brave, hard working females that have supported our wars with specialties to win the fight but actual ground pounding fighters.
If I was a leader of a country with access to cannon fodder wouldn't I at least consider fodder that can win my objectives? It's complete insanity. There is no other way to put it. The objective of an army is to fight and defend its nation's interests. Can I use an overused shit officer term?... how is this 'value added'?
The fools who think women can be front line fighters believe some how technology and modern warfare has now opened the door. I pipe dream conjured up by the PC machine, feminists, Hollywood and political elite. No level-headed politician will touch it now because it would be tantamount to committing political suicide; being labeled a sexist. The job of discrediting this administrations appointees fell on the leadership in the officer corps and they did worse than fail, they supported it. The officer corps did not learn a single goddamn thing after almost 15 years of war. The USMC were the only ones that conducted some type of due diligence and presented the facts; women cannot perform the job anywhere near the level as men. The army sent women to an already watered down Ranger school after months of preparation and mentorship and that was their litmus test. What a fucking joke.
All in all what is done is done. There is no turning back now. It is happening whether we like it or not.
This administration will have blood on their hands as well as the combat-avoiding ticket punching officers that supported this when our next major conflict occurs.
You can guaran-fucking-tee that price will be paid by OUR sons and daughters and not theirs.
The only thing I feel we can do as a Regiment at this point is fight to the bitter end to maintain high standards at any and all costs. And that includes keeping team week motherfuckers. Because you know that is the first thing they will get rid of because there are technically 'no standards' in team week. SWCS leadership pulled this shit when congress mandated SOF expansion after 9-11 SWCS bottomed out the standards and removed team week when they weren't churing out numbers sometime in 04-05.
I am excited to see what happens after some chick fails to meet the standard time and time again and then is slapped with an EO or SHARP Complaint and then a Team Sergeant goes fucking nuclear on the Battalion SHARP rep (Or company since im sure those will be MTOE positions once this dumpster fire ensues).
This organization is ours.
Not appointed, unelected civilians with zero experience.
How about on a long patrol the female 11B starts her menstrual cycle and is out of tampons? Are tampons going to be part of the next resupply mission taking up room for ammo, water and other essental gear? I wonder if the academic types thought about these little problems in the field.....
As I recall during the Gulf War, the women were given bags full of oral contraceptives and were told to not take the week of 'blanks'. One of the medical specialists here will have to confirm this, but as I also recall, doing that for an extended length of time could turn out to cause more problems later.
Navy Secretary Ray Mabus says decision on women in combat is irreversible
http://www.fayobserver.com/military/navy-secretary-ray-mabus-says-decision-on-women-in-combat/article_b4ececd0-318f-5f45-9fee-493b5a58f39c.html
Lots of "Rah, Rah, can do" in this story. Young guys think it will be the older Marines that will have a problem with this.
But way down at the bottom of the story....
"...Gen. Robert Neller, the Marine Corps commandant, told senators in February that he worried about retention, injury rates and unit effectiveness.
"We have a decision and we're in the process of moving out," Neller said. "We will see where the chips fall. And, again, our hope is that everyone will be successful. But hope is not a course of action on the battlefield."
Neller told senators that Marine Corps testing revealed two significant differences between all-male units and those with men and women. He said all-male units were able to better march long distances carrying heavy loads and also were able to fire their weapons more accurately after marching over distance.
Being big and strong and having a "certain body mass give you an advantage," said Neller."
Well, he is an older Marine.
I am excited to see what happens after some chick fails to meet the standard time and time again and then is slapped with an EO or SHARP Complaint and then a Team Sergeant goes fucking nuclear on the Battalion SHARP rep (Or company since im sure those will be MTOE positions once this dumpster fire ensues).
This organization is ours.
Not appointed, unelected civilians with zero experience.
Your goddamn right brother.... even for the retired guys, its still our Regiment, our Army and our Military. The groundpounder bears the burden and we know the price of weakness and failure on the battlefield.
DIYPatriot
04-28-2016, 11:31
When Capt. Kristen M. Griest made history last summer by becoming one of the first two women to graduate the Army’s legendarily difficult Ranger School, she made her intentions clear: She was considering joining a Special Operations unit. Now, she has accomplished another first with some similar demands: becoming the U.S. military’s first female infantry officer.
Griest, 27, requested a transfer to become an infantry officer, and it was accepted Monday, said Lt. Col. Jerry Pionk, an Army spokesman. On Thursday, she will graduate from the Maneuver Captains Career Course at Fort Benning, Ga., which teaches students how to do tactical planning for infantry companies and battalions and lead as a company commander.
“Like any other officer wishing to branch-transfer, Capt. Griest applied for an exception to Army policy to transfer from military police to infantry,” said Bob Purtiman, a spokesman for the Maneuver Center of Excellence at Fort Benning. “Her transfer was approved by the Department of the Army, and she’s now an infantry officer.”
Continued (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/04/27/armys-first-female-infantry-officer-is-capt-kristen-griest-ranger-school-graduate/)
:munchin
An Infantry Company Commander who has never been an Infantry Platoon Leader is going to be counseling her platoon leaders on how to do it right.
Works for the PC crowd.
An Infantry Company Commander who has never been an Infantry Platoon Leader is going to be counseling her platoon leaders on how to do it right.
Works for the PC crowd.
Wouldn't you think as a West Pointer she would feel a bit sheepish about backing into this position on an exception to Army policy.
PedOncoDoc
04-28-2016, 18:19
Wouldn't you think as a West Pointer she would feel a bit sheepish about backing into this position on an exception to Army policy.
Her actions/behaviors clearly show she has no concern so long as she gets her attention and special treatment.
Badger52
04-28-2016, 19:10
Wouldn't you think as a West Pointer she would feel a bit sheepish about backing into this position on an exception to Army policy.Army policy is just published words. She's not an exception, she's just what they're looking for. No way that wasn't going to be approved; these days a negative endorsement on something like that would get you PCS'd to supervise tree cutting on Shemya.
:rolleyes:
Actually, according to the 05 Apr 16 MILPER msg 16-096, she received 3 exceptions to policy:
1) Applicants were supposed to be from YG 14 or 15; CPT Griest is YG 11, 3 years too late according to this standard
2) Applicants were supposed to attend IN or AR BOLC; CPT Griest just finished the MCCC, which is not a comparable course by any standard
3) Applicants were supposed to complete a minimum of 1 year of IN or AR PL time before attending MCCC; as noted above, CPT Griest did not serve as an IN PL for any length of time before being allowed to attend MCCC--the third standard that was waived for her
So, while the SECDEF, CSA and everyone else in the chain of command continue to insist that standards will not be lowered, that is exactly what happened in this precedence-setting, 'historic' event, x3.
Standards! Huh! Good Good y'all...what are they good for? Absolutely nothing; say it again!
...1) Applicants were supposed to be from YG 14 or 15; CPT Griest is YG 11, 3 years too late according to this standard.....
When is YG 11's first look for Major?
I ask because it would seem she is 3 years behind her soon to be "peers". Haven't they done their Platoon Leader, Company Commander time and moved on to a staff position?
A person would think her records wouldn't look that good to a board. Well, except for the "first female" part.
ddoering
04-29-2016, 07:14
I'm sure the picture will make up for any deficiencies in her records.
When is YG 11's first look for Major?
I ask because it would seem she is 3 years behind her soon to be "peers". Haven't they done their Platoon Leader, Company Commander time and moved on to a staff position?
A person would think her records wouldn't look that good to a board. Well, except for the "first female" part.
She has no "peers"
xollie316
04-29-2016, 08:31
deleted.
Her board will meet in 2020 with a possibility for below the zone in 2019. I'm sure she will be a stellar candidate for it as well.
She's not far behind her YG however. I'm 2008 and still in my KD time on an ODA.
I can't imagine being her young gung-ho infantry PLs being assigned to her tutelage, knowing full well they can't question it, complain, or do anything but support it lest they jeopardize their young careers. Getting their formations to respect her will be termed a 'leadership challenge' and its one I do not envy them for.
Ahh, those pesky 2d and 3d order effect things...I'm sure the senior leadership thought that out.....said no one EVER...
DIYPatriot
04-29-2016, 10:40
She has no "peers"
By the time Ash Carter gets finished, I'm sure she'll have plenty of peers.
ETA:
My wife and another colleague of hers (both are soon to be O3), were approached at the early part of the year and encouraged/asked if they would like to transfer to IN or AR. Both said no. Talked to my wife about that and her sentiments were, "I enlisted as an MP, cut my teeth on all-things MP then crossed over to the dark side and I'm an XO in an MP Co. I have no clue how IN or any other branch operates - what sense does it make to transfer as an O3 with zero time in combat arms??? I'm not going to be part of their experiment."
Some get it.
tom kelly
04-29-2016, 12:01
First Female Ranger to become the CO of an Airborne BCT? or even better The first female Ranger to be the CO of a SF Group.....There is no limit to PC BULLSHIT. JUST LOOK AT THE H C Campaign, NEVER MENTIONS THE FBI INVESTIGATION; IF THE FBI DIRECTOR RECOMMENDS A + NUMBER OF COUNT INDICTMENTS; WILL THE AG GO ALONG & HAVE HER ARRESTED? ......tom kelly
Political correctness in military with women in combat or combat leader roles is very dangerous.
Wouldn't you think as a West Pointer she would feel a bit sheepish about backing into this position on an exception to Army policy.
HA-ha-ha-ha-ha-ho-ho-hee-hee-ha-ha-ha-ha!
That place is a veritable proving ground for forced gender integration. If you haven't heard, in the last year the first female CSM and Commandant (1-star) have made their place in history, and just this week RUMINT has started that the current male Dean (1-star) will retire soon and be replaced by the first female to hold the position. That means 3 of the 4 top positions will be women, and the current male Superintendent (3-star) should be retiring within the next year. I would not be surprised in the least if he is replaced by the first female Supe, making the entire command team at USMA female.
Hooray for manufactured gender integration success!
Screw it, lets just bar males from military service. For thousands of years males have born the brunt and died in war while women sat safely at home. Its just not fair, women need to take up the slack and do all the fighting from now on. I see on TV where women are not only equal to men in fighting prowess but superior in intellect, maturity and judgement. Men can stay home, unless they identify as a woman, and women, gays transgenders and what ever other pervert freak is in voge this week can go to war and work. Fuck it, I am done. The lesbian liberals think they can do better let them have at it. In fact every female, faggot, transvestite, and dyke should do mandatory military service just like males have done in the past.
Why the pink font? ;)
Pat
Correction on my previous post about USMA--the official announcement of the President's nomination of COL Cindy Jebb as the next Dean was just released.
I also failed to point out that 2016 is the 40th anniversary of women being admitted to USMA as cadets, and the "Athena's Arena" conference at West Point celebrating this 'milestone' is ongoing.
bailaviborita
04-30-2016, 06:07
Agenda:
Choose from one of the following sessions: Leading Women and Men through SHARP or
In and Out: Other Army Components- Service beyond Active Duty
or
Lead Like a Girl: Sisterhood and Overcoming Adversity
bailaviborita
04-30-2016, 06:12
Workshops for Athenas Arena:
How Does My Intersectionality (Race and Gender) Change My Experience?
Join us for an insider look at how the experience of minority women differ from their peers. Learn what challenges these women faced and how they were able to find success.
DIYPatriot
04-30-2016, 12:37
Screw it, lets just bar males from military service. For thousands of years males have born the brunt and died in war while women sat safely at home. Its just not fair, women need to take up the slack and do all the fighting from now on. I see on TV where women are not only equal to men in fighting prowess but superior in intellect, maturity and judgement. Men can stay home, unless they identify as a woman, and women, gays transgenders and what ever other pervert freak is in voge this week can go to war and work. Fuck it, I am done. The lesbian liberals think they can do better let them have at it. In fact every female, faggot, transvestite, and dyke should do mandatory military service just like males have done in the past.
I read your post to Mrs DIY and she fully agreed. She hates what our Army is becoming. Before all this PC crap became an issue she never felt that there was a spotlight on her. Ever since it began, she and several other legit female soldiers we know have been steadily feeling the looks and hearing the comments. She has super thick skin and everyone has a limit. Guess I'm just saying that good men aren't the only ones being driven away.
HA-ha-ha-ha-ha-ho-ho-hee-hee-ha-ha-ha-ha!
That place is a veritable proving ground for forced gender integration. If you haven't heard, in the last year the first female CSM and Commandant (1-star) have made their place in history, and just this week RUMINT has started that the current male Dean (1-star) will retire soon and be replaced by the first female to hold the position. That means 3 of the 4 top positions will be women, and the current male Superintendent (3-star) should be retiring within the next year. I would not be surprised in the least if he is replaced by the first female Supe, making the entire command team at USMA female.
Hooray for manufactured gender integration success!
My son was going to go there to wrestle. Prospective cadets have to write essays as part of their packets. I can't remember the wording but on of the questions that they were asked to write about was full of "inclusive" PC crap. ... something like "given that the Army respects diversity ... how well do you think you could work with others more different than you..." . THat's not it exactly but I remember reading it and thinking it was bullshit. I am glad that I helped him make the right decision and not go there.
Badger52
04-30-2016, 15:28
I am glad that I helped him make the right decision and not go there.That a profressional Soldier, and others who've worn the uniform in previous times, would endeavor to talk one of their children out of such a thing is one of the saddest commentaries on this completely f'd up state of affairs.
Political correctness in military with women in combat or combat leader roles is very dangerous.
Fact.
So I ask, what the fuck can be done about it?
My answer, vote for Ted Cruz.
frostfire
04-30-2016, 21:14
["]Screw it, lets just bar males from military service. For thousands of years males have born the brunt and died in war while women sat safely at home. Its just not fair, women need to take up the slack and do all the fighting from now on. I see on TV where women are not only equal to men in fighting prowess but superior in intellect, maturity and judgement. Men can stay home, unless they identify as a woman, and women, gays transgenders and what ever other pervert freak is in voge this week can go to war and work. Fuck it, I am done. The lesbian liberals think they can do better let them have at it. In fact every female, faggot, transvestite, and dyke should do mandatory military service just like males have done in the past.
[/COLOR]
When I hear female in infantry, 09:17 to 10:13 comes to mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK1HMpPOz28
I know, I know, we do trench warfare no more and we have gals shooting at the enemies in Afghanistan and Iraq and all over the world. Yes, firearm is the great equalizer. But guns and rifles do run out of ammo and do jam. When that happens...
I wonder if Americans are ready to see their wives, daughters, and sisters in the same scenes from Mogadishu 1993 and Fallujah 2004. Who will they point the fingers at then?
I concur with Mills
I know, I know, we do trench warfare no more and we have gals shooting at the enemies in Afghanistan and Iraq and all over the world.
There are more than just a few instances of guys going hand-to-hand against one or more insurgents in both Iraq and Afghanistan (e.g., Tony Pryor, Ed Byers) to save the lives of their mates, so I think your point stands on its own just fine.
xollie316
05-01-2016, 00:10
deleted.
bailaviborita
05-02-2016, 04:59
War is just for fun now. It is not deadly serious. It is in aid of social advancement, letting ourselves feel good, advancing "diversity" or whatever else you want to call it- but it isn't about killing, dying, and destruction. The "nature" of warfare has changed according to many of our generals. It is now drones, "green men", and zones of gray. You can't leave out 50% of the population if you want to win. And other slogan logic...
A guy gets through Ranger without recycling and it is considered rare- but there is no fanfare, no press stories, no greased path to a branch of his choice. Definitely not standing ovations at West Point's mess for him, panel speaking opportunities to discuss his concerns, or anything else out of the ordinary. A female who recycles multiple times- could barely get out of Benning- if she really deserved to- gets all of the aforementioned and more.
What's the message? That it doesn't matter what you do- it matters what your gender is (or any of a dozen other categories)- but definitely not the "content of your character"...
We hold up as heroes anyone who fits the pop culture image of hero- regardless of what they actually accomplished.
So- who wants in on this amazing culture? Give us a call an the US can help your country change itself into an upside down world of illogic as well.
John McCain Slips in Provision to Draft Women in Defense Bill
https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/05/john-mccain-slips-in-provisions-to-draft-women-in-defense-bill#sthash.IV4bEkux.dpuf
OK, lets see how this plays out.
Pat
John McCain Slips in Provision to Draft Women in Defense Bill
https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/05/john-mccain-slips-in-provisions-to-draft-women-in-defense-bill#sthash.IV4bEkux.dpuf
OK, lets see how this plays out.
Pat
Very nice! It was interesting to note that according to the article, "a majority of that body (Senate) now supports drafting women."