View Full Version : Ottoman Empire goes bear hunting
Divemaster
11-24-2015, 03:28
Not exactly an Archduke Ferdinand moment but... This was by a NATO country. Yosemite Sam accidentally laying down a powder train? It seems to be an SU-24, according to CNN.
ETA: Reports are that two ejected inside Syria. This will give the West a good view of Russian CSAR capability in an expeditionary environment.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34907983
Turkey 'down Russian warplane on Syria border'
Turkish warplanes have reportedly shot down a Russian military aircraft on the border with Syria.
Russia's Interfax news agency cited the Russian defence ministry as saying that a Su-24 had crashed in northern Syria, and that its two pilots had ejected.
Turkish military officials said Turkish F-16s had shot down the plane after repeatedly warning its pilots that they were violating Turkish airspace.
Video footage showed the plane crashing into mountains in Latakia province.
Russia launched an air campaign to bolster Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's government in late September.
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It says it has targeted only "terrorists", but activists say its strikes have mainly hit Western-backed rebel groups.
Turkey, a staunch critic of Mr Assad, has warned against violations of its airspace by Russian and Syrian aircraft.
Last month, Ankara said Turkish F-16s had intercepted a Russian jet that crossed its border and two Turkish jets had been harassed by an unidentified Mig-29.
blacksmoke
11-24-2015, 06:37
Here it comes! :eek:
blacksmoke
11-24-2015, 06:40
It'll be interesting to see if IS or some other group doesn't get to them first. What will Russia's response be? On sofrep they had an article saying events like this would lead to WW3.
Round One - US equipment one - Soviet equipment zero.
Round One - US equipment one - Soviet equipment zero.
Not really a fair fight.. F-16 vs what is primarily a ground attack aircraft.
Could this be seen as Erdogan working diligently to keep the ISIS supply lines open?
:confused:
so a Muslim country could pull us into direct conflict with Russia by way of NATO?
It's being reported now, that Syrian "rebels" have shot down one of the Russian CSAR helos ... and that BOTH of the SU-24 pilots are dead.
Russian helicopter searching for missing pilots shot down by Syrian rebels
A Russian rescue helicopter has been shot down by Syrian rebels while searching for pilots missing after Turkey downed a Russian jet.
The helicopter was forced to make an emergency landing in a government-held area in Syria's Latakia province.
A Syrian insurgent group, which uses U.S. Tow missiles, said its fighters hit the helicopter with an anti-tank missile.
Video footage has emerged online appearing to show the helicopter after it crashed in dense woodland.
Plumes of smoke can be seen coming from the aircraft.
Vladmir Putin earlier warned Turkey of "significant consequences" after the Russian plane was shot down.
READ MORE: Turkey shoots down Russian fighter jet which 'violated its airspace' close to Syrian border
Pilot from downed Russian planeVideo footage was posted online which appeared to show a dead Russian pilot after a jet was shot down by Turkey
The Russian President also said the action by Turkey was a "stab in the back" and said it would have serious consequences for his country’s relations with Turkey.
Turkey claimed it shot down the fighter jet because it violated its airspace.
However, Putin said the jet was shot down in Syria, 4km from the Turkish border.
He told a media conference: "This event is beyond the normal framework of fighting against terrorism.
"Of course our military is doing heroic work against terrorism... But the loss today is a stab in the back, carried out by the accomplices of terrorists.
"....Our aircraft was downed over the territory of Syria, using air-to-air missile from a Turkish F-16."
A gruesome video appears to show Syrian rebels with a dead pilot from the jet.
A Syrian rebel group has distributed footage which they say shows the pilot.
Two pilots ejected but footage online now appears to show that one of the pilots has died. Sources now claim that the second pilot is also dead.
In the gruesome footage, a voice is heard saying "A Russian pilot.
A voice then adds: "God is great" .
It is not known what has happened to a second pilot who was in the plane.
Turkish military officials say a warplane shot down the jet because it violated its airspace.
The plane exploded in the air causing a huge fireball which fell on the Turkmen mountain on the Syrian side of the border.
Video footage captured in the area shows the jet covered in flames plummeting to the ground.
<snip>
http://drudgetoday.com/v2/r?n=0&s=18&c=1&pn=Anonymous&u=http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russian-rescue-helicopter-shot-down-6891003
The video that I saw shows the helo sitting on the ground with blades stopped when it got schwacked by the TOW.
Must have been forced down by SAF or mechanical problems first.
Team Sergeant
11-24-2015, 11:46
Turks are playing a dangerous game.
The only reason they had the "balls" to even shoot at a Russian warplane is because big brother stands behind them.
America is backing the wrong tribe/tribes and it's going to get more and more US military members killed until we sever those ties.
blacksmoke
11-24-2015, 13:33
How does partial member of NATO military support go? How could Turkey end up being a member and not Ukraine?? Let Russia give a ton of weapons and training assistance to the Kurds. :munchin
How are they a member after Cypress? Would China sit this out if NATO intervened or would they even care?
How are they a member after Cypress? Would China sit this out if NATO intervened or would they even care?
Definitely agree cooler heads need to prevail here.
Turkey is in NATO due to strategic location, and currently has the second largest army in NATO. As for the Chinese if they cared their might be economic or trade impacts but militarily have they ever had the ability to project force outside China or contiguous countries? In their last military foray abroad they got their ass handed to them by the NVA.
blacksmoke
11-24-2015, 21:05
I was thinking not a full member of the EU. Well aint that something, the country that turned a blind eye to IS guys running back and forth to Syria we might have to go fight for if somehting happened...
I wonder how identifiable they were as Russian aircraft?
Syrians have SU24s in inventory too.
And there's already been a few shoot downs:
Syrian Pantir shot down a Turk RF4 recce bird.
And the Turks shot down 1-2 Syrian fast movers.
SIGiNT of verbal coms, differentiation between Syrian and Russian SU24s, ROEs, etc.
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Turkey and Greece have had really aggressive air intercepts over the years(with multiple losses of aircraft) and they're both members of NATO.
Remington Raidr
11-24-2015, 21:42
Try to keep up. Since the founding of the republic after WW I, the "young turks" used the military to keep muslim extremist at bay. But Erdogan has purged the military so that it cannot perform it's historic role in the Republic, and has encouraged the rise of religious extremism. Kinda like some guy named Barry has done elsewhere. All the "stars" are ass-kissing climbers, not warrior-leaders. Fuck the current Turkey. Don't do shit if they are attacked. They are not our allies anymore.:munchin
Red Flag 1
11-24-2015, 22:04
Turkey has been a member since the cold war.
Wonder if we wil see Putin at the UN, pounding on his desk with his shoe:munchin?
The Russians and Turks are natural adversaries. Since roughly 1676 they have been involved in approximately 12 wars with one another many of which involved Russia' s desire for a warm water port on the Black Sea. These two have a long history of animosity and seems right to have them both ratchet up the tension in a region all set to blow wide open. Given the choice of siding with an NATO "partner" like Turkey who is running at a full sprint towards muslim brotherhood domination or the Russians....its a no brainer to me.
The Europeans despite their self perception of "sophistication" have a real historic knack for killing the hell out of each other and dragging the world into it when disagreements get serious. This is especially the case when the economic situation is bleak as it is now. Institutions such as the EU and NATO help bind them together.
The Islamist threat to the West is serious, but we would be naive to forget Putin is anything other than our enemy as well. If ISIS is currently asshat #1, Vlad is still asshat #2. The Russians are flexing their influence worldwide because they know we have a ZERO as POTUS, our allies know this too. This administration's hobby seems to be insulting our allies and flashing weakness to our enemies.
The recent cowardly terrorist attacks in Paris deserve our full sympathy and support. France is a NATO ally and we should fulfill our article 5 obligation if invoked. Let's not forget this ally France despite our current rose tinted sympathy, has also been a fairly major asshat herself towards our interests for extended periods of time.
My $.02, Putin's probes need to be stung to reinforce the notion NATO still has the will, or if the Ukraine is any indication there could be all sorts of future trouble in the Baltic. If a Russkie fighter violates NATO air space anywhere, Poland, Estonia, or Turkey and gets shot down, we definitely de-escalate the situation, etc. But let's not forget we are still in NATO because it serves our interests to do so, not for France or for Turkey or anyone else.
Surf n Turf
11-28-2015, 17:32
Wonder if we wil see Putin at the UN, pounding on his desk with his shoe:munchin?
Looks like Putin is going after Erdogan and his family in the press. Shame this didn't happen before the recent Turkish elections. Erdogan is now in a position (as a NATO member) where he can try and twist the Russian Bears nose, and kick-off WWIII.
Excellent Video
SnT
Russia released an extensive report this week tying Turkey’s ruling family to the Islamic State.
This comes after Turkey shot down a Russian plane over disputed region of Turkey and Syria.
This report may also explain why Obama has allegedly been fighting the Islamic State for a year as they grow more powerful and larger.
From the video: Yes, Russia is being opportunistic to release this information now after their jet was shot down. But, did Turkey (or the US) shoot down the Russian jet because it was interfering with oil shipments from the Islamic State to Turkey?
The Kurdish media documented several instances of Turkey’s support for ISIS last year.
Turkey has been playing both sides for over a year now.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/11/extensive-report-russia-ties-turkeys-erdogan-family-to-islamic-state-video/
[QUOTE=blacksmoke;598397]I was thinking not a full member of the EU./QUOTE]
The EU, WEU, and NATO are different entities with differing requirements for its members. Perhaps you should do some research on them.
For example - why Ireland is in the EU but merely an 'observer' in the WEU and a PfP member of NATO or why Turkey is in NATO but not in the EU or WEU (which it has tried to join for decades).
Richard
Looks like Putin is going after Erdogan and his family in the press. ~~~ Excellent Video
Son of Pravda.
Richard
WarriorDiplomat
11-29-2015, 20:16
[QUOTE=blacksmoke;598397]I was thinking not a full member of the EU./QUOTE]
The EU, WEU, and NATO are different entities with differing requirements for its members. Perhaps you should do some research on them.
For example - why Ireland is in the EU but merely an 'observer' in the WEU and a PfP member of NATO or why Turkey is in NATO but not in the EU or WEU (which it has tried to join for decades).
Richard
Can't speak for Ireland but Turkey with its issues with the Kurds and the Armenians are two reasons however the Lira would drag the euro down as well on the economic side.
blacksmoke
11-30-2015, 09:29
Looks like the WEU is the rich part of the EU (mostly) and the EU is the rest lol. Turkey is not Europe, or European, the Armenian and Kurdish issues alone disgust me. We still haven't gotten them to admit to genocide.