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airbornepunk
11-22-2015, 08:49
Good morning, Gentlemen
My question is that as a 35P MI support soldier in a NGSF Group can I get an 11B secondary MOS and go to 11B AIT/OSUT?

head
11-22-2015, 09:29
Good morning, Gentlemen
My question is that as a 35P MI support soldier in a NGSF Group can I get an 11B secondary MOS and go to 11B AIT/OSUT?

What is your angle? Why do you want to have an 11B MOS but not be an 11B?

It's probably up to the state, but 11B OSUT is a waste of time. If you want an 11B MOS, go to a two-week Infantryman Transition Course, but I bet the slots go to those already in an 11B slot and need to be get qualified.

http://www.army.mil/article/109120/New_York_Army_National_Guard_instructors_qualify_i nfantry_Soldiers/

If you somehow go to OSUT, at least ask to be a 11C, that way you'll learn a little more than doing squad attack over and over.

lindy
11-22-2015, 18:17
As a 35P, you have more shit to learn on the state's dime than 11B skills, which should be taught by your attached ODA.

SF can fight...they cannot SIGINT, which is why you're there. Know your trade so you become an invaluable asset.

head
11-22-2015, 20:09
Yeah, exactly. That's why I'm curious if it is some thing else...like he wants to go to Ranger School and his state only sends 11s or 18s.

airbornepunk
11-22-2015, 20:32
My reasoning was so that I had more of the infantry basic skills and background to be a better support soldier or so that who ever I was supporting would have more confidence in me. Also to bring that knowledge down to any subordinates and superiors alike within the 35 series field. But you are right, I have experienced going through drills and exercises with ODA members before deployments or JRTC, and that my focus should be on SIGINT.

Peregrino
11-22-2015, 21:06
Next time your SFG(A) does a SFBCC-S trainup go to it. It'll make you exactly as "high-speed" as you need to be.

Astronomy
11-23-2015, 16:05
It's unlikely that anyone is going to pay to send you for (or award) an 11 secondary. However, there's the Army way of doing things and there's the Army Guard way of accomplishing certain voodoo. Never say never.

Wander over to your SOT-B/SOT-A folks and talk with them (starting with NCO leadership). There might be a way to reclass to 98 series (or ride their training coat tails) to an OJT 11B secondary or even a future Ranger School slot. If they support it, your current shop leadership supports it, and the S2 supports it...the CSM & 1SG likely will. From there, the Bn OPS SGM & Schools NCO may be able to offer some opportunity to attend supporting training or exercise. If you're current NCOIC isn't on board (or at least informed)... you'd better get him that way before you go stirring things up. In other words, don't hold discussions behind your boss's back.

As a new SF guy, I picked up an 11B Secondary, as did many others in my battalion. OJT with the documentation to justify it. Spread out over time & deployments. Of course, that was during a pre-18MOS era... and I was already an 11C before coming to Group. But plenty of non- prior Infantry types were also awarded that Secondary MOS. Then again, it was a Cold War OPTEMPO... and we had the training time available.

It's a changed world from the old days. I'm all for training Support folks to the max allowable / achievable level. They wind up on the ground more than their MTOE or MOS would seem to indicate.

I had someone tell me I couldn't teach Bn Support troops to do advanced marksmanship, live fire vehicle drills, and certain live fire movement drills while we were downrange. Despite the fact that those kids were trolling for fire everyday on convoy ops with damn few SF or Infantry qualified guys in the mix. Too much like SFAUC. Ft Bragg might not approve. Not appropriate because it wasn't in their little chunk of 350-1. A bit more than SFBCC-S allowed for.

Bullshit.

I had them shooting and moving, firing from turrets, firing over hoods, firing from under vehicles, doing transition drills, casualty drags, vehicle dismounts while firing. Every damn one of them... from cherry Private to Support Staff Officer. They were perfectly capable of assimilating the training, they applied it to good purpose across their tour, and they were grateful to be treated as adults in a combat zone. Grateful for realistic training.

Their TICs, IEDs, EFPs, and casualties were the same as anyone else's. I'd say their risk factor for such was arguably higher than the average ODA's, because they had to drive repetitiously predictable routes. Pattern of Life.

I'd like to see every swingin' Support troop put through an Infantry SUT. Females included. It might serve as something of a de facto "Selection" for those wishing assignment to Group. The Army wastes an incredible amount of time and money on all kinds of mandatory PC training crap and other expenditure programs. We've actually got the scratch to pay for someone to voluntarily pick up Infantry skills/Secondary MOS. It just takes Commanders willing to demand it and not take no for an answer.

OP: Good luck with your quest.

lindy
11-23-2015, 16:26
My reasoning was so that I had more of the infantry basic skills and background to be a better support soldier or so that who ever I was supporting would have more confidence in me. Also to bring that knowledge down to any subordinates and superiors alike within the 35 series field. But you are right, I have experienced going through drills and exercises with ODA members before deployments or JRTC, and that my focus should be on SIGINT.

I understand where you're coming from. I thought the same thing after I joined 20th Group and requested the 14-day 11B transition course but after a few ATs and drills with ODAs, I changed my plan. Remember that SF guys are the BEST instructors out there. If they can train indig to standards, they can train 35-series!

I was already an E-7, MOSQ'd with a ton of 35P experience but ZERO Army experience when I showed up at the unit...plus I was old. I didn't know squat about 7-8 so I would be very blunt with the ODA TS: I'm good at my job but I suck at yours and I'm very eager to learn. Most ODAs were very clear: attachments weren't there to be shooters but support their operations.

I'd recommend:

1) know your core SIGINT job, be the expert, and always train. If you know your shit, the Fox will want you around because you enable him;
2) know your commo gear and learn from the Echo (they have same gear just different fill);
3) know every weapon system to employ and clear malfunctions; learn and gain trust of the Bravo;
4) know CLS and learn S4 tips from the Delta;
5) know when to keep your mouth shut (95% of the time) and ALWAYS volunteer to help the team; the TS is watching.

The best thing about being attached to an ODA is earning a spot on the task org...the hardest thing is being able to STAY on the task org.

Milktrckcopilot
11-24-2015, 03:54
If only we had our own MOS producing school to begin teaching these things...:boohoo:rolleyes:

Milktrckcopilot
11-25-2015, 17:17
I understand where you're coming from. I thought the same thing after I joined 20th Group and requested the 14-day 11B transition course but after a few ATs and drills with ODAs, I changed my plan. Remember that SF guys are the BEST instructors out there. If they can train indig to standards, they can train 35 series.



Who trains up the Radio Recon Teams, TAC-EW or the OST's?

NC6J
12-20-2015, 06:43
Good morning, Gentlemen
My question is that as a 35P MI support soldier in a NGSF Group can I get an 11B secondary MOS and go to 11B AIT/OSUT?

Short answer: no.
I cannot say how active component controls training seats today, but I can tell you that in the Guard, NGB will not approve an ATRRS application unless it for an MOS, ASI or SQI listed on the paragraph/line that you occupy on the UMR.

If it's not required for your duty position or NCOES, it will not be approved, because NGB doesn't even get enough money to get itself 100% MOSQ'ed in any given year.

Your profile says you are currently in the Legion, if your plan is to transition to NGSF, you will find that you are better off in your MOS than guys who learned it in the Guard. You have had the opportunity to cross-train with active duty teams, and you will have the opportunity to cross-train with NGSF ODAs. That is more applicable to what you do than anything you would learn in 2 weeks or 13 weeks of 11B.


And what Lindy said.