Kitchen Knife Set White Paper

[miclo18d]

I am not a knife expert by any means, I carry a small mass produced, Gerber auto assist folder that mostly sees box opening duties and jokes from the boss about the fact that it could only be used to bludgeon someone to death. With that I also have 2 Wüstof Grand Prix II chefs knives that I am fond of and use them for all my kitchen duties except for a pairing knife.

HH6 and I consider ourselves good cooks and love learning about gourmet cooking. We were discussing the fact that a good quality chef's knife is an essential part of Mise en place. She directed me to knives by Bob Kramer and we went on his website and saw some amazing knives! The problem is that Bob Kramer and others that build knives for the "Rock Star" chefs, cost thousands and thousands of dollars each! At that point you are really paying for a name.

"Then it hit me, like a diamond bullet, right between the eyes..." We have some knife makers on this site that cater to Special forces that could probably make same or better quality than these.

My proposal is for a Special Forces Chef's Knife set. For me an excellent blade with some sort of Special Forces crest or the Nous Defions symbol on the blade

Not knowing anything about knives and steel I have no idea how much they would cost but I'd be pretty darned sure I would pay $1000 for something like that!

I would love to hear others thoughts on this and I hope that TS will ring in, as a chef, and add some thoughts to this as well. Also Bill and DJ as knife makers, give their input. (I did see that Bill has a Carving set on his site already)

[Dusty]

I'd be interested in something like that, for sure.

[Ambush Master]

Check these out. http://www.chrisreeve.com/Sikayo

[miclo18d]

Check these out. http://www.chrisreeve.com/Sikayo
Those are very nice! I forgot to mention CR!

Now would he make that a set with:
-- 9 in
-- 6 in
-- pairing
-- filet
-- butcher

with one or both of these on the side of each blade and maybe a block or a magnetized holder?

[Team Sergeant]

I have a Chris Reeve chef knife, a collector's item. I don't use it. Most chef knives are light and extremely sharp. I used to use ZWILLING J.A. Henckels, or just Henckels. Now when I pick one up I think, "I used to use this knife!" They are great if you have a heavy hand and not a lot of knife skills (kitchen knife skills). Knives are like guns, cars, golf clubs that said take a look at what the "professionals" are using. (And throw out those that use "their own knives")

The lighter and sharper the knife the more skill required (or you will lose a finger.) Also my knives are not designed for the heavy handed folks, they will dent and bend. Not a happy thing to see when you've spent $300-400 per knife.

Most would do well with the Ford Focus of knives, it will get the job done as will the Dodge Ram of knives. And there's the Ferrari, sharp, light and very expensive. You should know what you're doing before you decide to employ one.

And if you need just one knife it would be an 8 inch chef knife anything longer and you better have skills. I have three chef knives and I use them for different occasions. That said I use them every day and sometimes 3-4 times a day.

If you decide to make a purchase make sure you "drive" a few first. Also learn some knife skills (kitchen). Learn a few skills and you might realize you'd like to step up to a higher quality knife.

My kitchen knife choices are Shuns (http://shun.kaiusaltd.com/).

[Bill Harsey]

miclo18d,

Great concept but expensive to produce.

Tough to compete with Shun knives mentioned by Team Sergeant, they are very high quality. I also use those with the Chris Reeve Sikayo.

The difficulty in making sets of knives that are not part of a knife companies normal production is the very real cost of engineering the tooling and process, then trying to make enough of those knives to justify the expense.

If we step down the quality of alloy used to make production easier or less expensive, then we are just competing with all other existing knives on the market and sales will reflect that.

[SittingElf]

You might also consider Cutco knives...(though pricey)

My wife's uncle is Frederic (Fritz) Sonnenschmidt, the retired Dean of the CIA (Culinary Institute of America) which is the premier school in the USA. He is an International Master Chef, well known throughout the world. He is also a regular judge at the World Culinary Olympics.

He has been using Cutco knives for more than 30 years, and does shows for them as well. He says there are no better in the USA or Germany. Lifetime warranty, free sharpening, replacement forever for damaged knives.

His paring knife from Cutco is 30 years old, and he uses it in shows and demo's regularly...most recently at the Epcot Center Food Show...to create artistic food displays, as well as full food prep demonstrations.

Worth a look for aspiring chefs and novices (that would be me) alike.

Frank

[Bill Harsey]

When selecting blades, especially for food preparation, learn about not just blade shapes but cross sectional profile, if cutting stuff well is important.

[miclo18d]

miclo18d,

Great concept but expensive to produce.

Tough to compete with Shun knives mentioned by Team Sergeant, they are very high quality. I also use those with the Chris Reeve Sikayo.

The difficulty in making sets of knives that are not part of a knife companies normal production is the very real cost of engineering the tooling and process, then trying to make enough of those knives to justify the expense.

If we step down the quality of alloy used to make production easier or less expensive, then we are just competing with all other existing knives on the market and sales will reflect that.

I see the difficulty in producing a set. If you were commissioned for a set and sky is the limit best materials, best techniques, etc. How hard would that hit the pocket for an 8" chefs knife?

This is really a feasibility question. I have like 5 chefs knives, I regularly use 2. If I had one that was custom made with a "Nous Defions" laser engraving on it I would show it off to my liberal friends, maybe even give them the privilege of being stabbed in the face with it.

TS, you gave me insight that, much like firearms, chefs knives are suited to individuals. Some will like light, some heavy. Some chefs, some santoku... etc.

I guess I was thinking that a nice set with some SF specific design would be better than some celebrity knife set.

:boohoo

[Ambush Master]

The Chris Reeve pair are under $500 for both and they are available in Left and Right hand versions.

[TOMAHAWK9521]

You might also consider Cutco knives...(though pricey)


Frank

Cutco, eh? My late wife had a set of those before we were married. I recall our first Halloween when we were carving Jack-o-lanterns. She was using a blade from one of those carving kits and I grabbed one of her Cutco knives. She said not to use one of the good knives. I responded, "I'm not.", and then proceeded to carve away with the Cutco knife. She was not amused. I ended up getting her a hand-picked set of Wustoff Trident kitchen knives with a block so she would have truly have "good knives." :D

[x SF med]

You might also consider Cutco knives...(though pricey)

My wife's uncle is Frederic (Fritz) Sonnenschmidt, the retired Dean of the CIA (Culinary Institute of America) which is the premier school in the USA. He is an International Master Chef, well known throughout the world. He is also a regular judge at the World Culinary Olympics.

He has been using Cutco knives for more than 30 years, and does shows for them as well. He says there are no better in the USA or Germany. Lifetime warranty, free sharpening, replacement forever for damaged knives.

His paring knife from Cutco is 30 years old, and he uses it in shows and demo's regularly...most recently at the Epcot Center Food Show...to create artistic food displays, as well as full food prep demonstrations.

Worth a look for aspiring chefs and novices (that would be me) alike.

Frank

How much are they paying him to do shows? How often are they replaced by Cutco? No slight on your wife's Uncle, but he is a paid spokesman for Cutco. And their claim to fame? DISPOSABLE Food Service Cutlery for high production areas, and/or service (sharpening) and replaceability contracts for high volume production areas to include processing plants....

I'll take a Tad Williams knife (if I could afford it) any day. and the Wusthof, Henckels, Sabatier, or precision de France knives are easier to sharpen than a Cutco ever thought of being - they are overhardened and have no edge durability at all, the edges are brittle- the others mentioned hold an edge longer and more reliably.... I've sharpened them all... We have Precision de France, Henkels and Wusthof in our knife blocks... I actually love sharpening them, I'll never even attempt to sharpen a Cutco ever again.

[Team Sergeant]

I agree, Cutco would not be in my 10 ten chef's knife choices. Or for that matter 99.9% of real professional chef's.

I would not give Cutco an honorable mention in the knife field.:munchin The "glock" of the knife world.

[DJ Urbanovsky]

It's not unfeasible, but everything is going to have a cost associated with it. Materials and processes need to be considered, as well as the specs on the knives, how many models would constitute a set, and quantities.

I already have a series of knives that I suppose would constitute a kitchen set, but they are more general purpose plus hard use vs being specifically engineered from kitchen tasks. And at 0.1857" thickness at the spine, they are thicker than your typical chefs knife. See what Bill said about geometry and cross section.

While I do have a lot of guys that use these knives for kitchen work and who are very happy with their performance, if I were going to design a dedicated, kitchen task oriented knife set, I would either start with thinner stock, or go with a more acute bevel angle and higher grind height. But it's really a balancing act - the thinner it is and the more acute the bevel and edge angles are, the better it is going to cut, but the less durable it is going to be. It's about the right tool for the job.

Also, we have to consider cost. I'm not Kershaw or ChefWorks, and as one guy, I can only produce so many knives in a year. So price-wise, my stuff is going to be more expensive.

[x SF med]

I agree, Cutco would not be in my 10 ten chef's knife choices. Or for that matter 99.9% of real professional chef's.

I would not give Cutco an honorable mention in the knife field.:munchin The "glock" of the knife world.

I'd go more with the Saturday Night Special than Glock, but we all have our own thoughts...

[miclo18d]

It's not unfeasible, but everything is going to have a cost associated with it. Materials and processes need to be considered, as well as the specs on the knives, how many models would constitute a set, and quantities.

I already have a series of knives that I suppose would constitute a kitchen set, but they are more general purpose plus hard use vs being specifically engineered from kitchen tasks. And at 0.1857" thickness at the spine, they are thicker than your typical chefs knife. See what Bill said about geometry and cross section.

While I do have a lot of guys that use these knives for kitchen work and who are very happy with their performance, if I were going to design a dedicated, kitchen task oriented knife set, I would either start with thinner stock, or go with a more acute bevel angle and higher grind height. But it's really a balancing act - the thinner it is and the more acute the bevel and edge angles are, the better it is going to cut, but the less durable it is going to be. It's about the right tool for the job.

Also, we have to consider cost. I'm not Kershaw or ChefWorks, and as one guy, I can only produce so many knives in a year. So price-wise, my stuff is going to be more expensive.

Just for shits and giggles, what would an 8" chefs knife cost? What would you price it? For your work?

[VVVV]

I bought a set of 8 Zwilling H.A. Henckels Four Star Knives plus a steel and a set of 8 steak knives 37 years ago....they are still performing as well as they did back then.

[DJ Urbanovsky]

Well, in my Professional Grade lineup, the M6 is $579 with free USPS priority insured shipping in the USA/APO/FPO/DPO, and I eat the PayPal fees. 8" blade, 12.1" OAL, made of 0.1875" thickness CPM S35VN. It works pretty well in the kitchen, despite being so thick. Again, more engineered as a robust wilderness blade than for the kitchen.

Just for shits and giggles, what would an 8" chefs knife cost? What would you price it? For your work?

[miclo18d]

Well, in my Professional Grade lineup, the M6 is $579 with free USPS priority insured shipping in the USA/APO/FPO/DPO, and I eat the PayPal fees. 8" blade, 12.1" OAL, made of 0.1875" thickness CPM S35VN. It works pretty well in the kitchen, despite being so thick. Again, more engineered as a robust wilderness blade than for the kitchen.
You gotta be able to cook in the wilderness too right?

That's a really nice knife (I love things OD green). I hope this doesn't come as an insult, but could you laser engrave it with like an SF symbol?

[DJ Urbanovsky]

You most certainly do. :D

Glad you like it, buddy.

I would never be insulted by such a request. I'd just need do the CAD programming on it, and then it would actually get engraved when the blades were being machined so that it would have the exact same look as my logo.

You gotta be able to cook in the wilderness too right?

That's a really nice knife (I love things OD green). I hope this doesn't come as an insult, but could you laser engrave it with like an SF symbol?