USSOCOM Safty Message - Eotech

[JJ_BPK]

Anyone experience these problems? or even aware of them?



USSOCOM Issues Safety of Use Message for EOTech Enhanced Combat Optical Sights – Plus More Goings On

Over the past few weeks, three separate issues have come to our attention regarding EOTech’s line of Holographic Weapon Sights (HWS). While we initially thought they weren’t related as they came up one by one, we realized they were all connected once we had looked into all three. Consequently, we believe they should be presented together, along with the source documentation.

Safety Of Use Message Issued

Although it’s the last one we uncovered, we’ll begin with the most glaring piece of information. On 14 September, the SOF Weapons Program Management Office at NSWC Crane released a Safety of Use Message regarding issues with EOTech’s Enhanced Combat Optical Sights (ECOS), which is how they refer to HWS. This certainly caught our attention as the PMO is responsible for USSOCOM weapons. That message ultimately serves as the linchpin, tying together the other two issues we’ll soon address.

link: continue (http://soldiersystems.net/2015/09/30/ussocom-issues-safety-use-message-eotech-enhanced-combat-optical-sights-plus-goings/)

[Miles]

Anyone experience these problems? or even aware of them?


I had always noticed that the windage & elevation adjustments weren't a precise fractional movement, but no one ever had problems getting zeroed, or ever related to me a problem with maintaining zero. Not getting into specifics, but my guys were in some places with pretty extreme climates.

The only reliability problems ever noted were a few internal power and battery pack issues on the older "N" battery and AA battery models. It was the main reason we went to the XPS.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I have a first GEN L-3 MPO (557) 4X-Magnifier. (Which is by mil name SU-213/PEQ)

Never experienced a problem with it. It is for the most part what it is. A combat weapons sight that does exceptionally well at CQB. Also, has been and remains accurate enough to ping 10" steel out to 300M having been on and off the gun (RTZ). Battery life is okay, I never trust my life to a questionable battery.

I'm happy with mine, but I don't go shooting anywhere near the extremes listed in the SOUM. Zero has not been "knocked out" and the "Parallax" issue isn't an issue.

Now if I could ever afford that AN-PVS/14 I'd know if the NVG system worked. :)

I read that whole thing even all the comments. There will be haters and those that don't. I don't care if the mechanical adjustments are "close" it's not a precision optic. I'm not overly worried that it "might be" at worst, two-inches off POA at 50-yds above or below 122*f -40*f, I don't work in those environments.

Are there better? Yes and no. All have some trade off. Knowing this info is good but not enough to trade in. I have illuminated precision scopes, AIMPOINTS, Red-Dot HWS "Quick Sights" and traditional high quality precision reticle cross-hair scopes. They are all better than I am now and probably then too. It fits a "niche" and does it well.

[demodude]

Anyone read the original warning issued by NSWC Crain, issued mid August? This is becoming an issue for federal LEOs and FLETC. Trying to get ahead of it. If you any info please side bar.

[Gold Eagle]

I have not followed the EoTech issue much.

For the average soldier and marine, would it help to just re-zero when a temperature change happens? I know in some cases this would not work due to time and mission. Thanks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/04/03/u-s-special-operations-units-are-using-faulty-rifle-sights/


U.S. Special Operations forces are using rifle sights that are supposed to help shooters accurately hit their targets but instead have a defect, acknowledged by the manufacturer, that potentially endangers the lives of service members in combat, according to court records and military officials.

[Team Sergeant]

I have not followed the EoTech issue much.

For the average soldier and marine, would it help to just re-zero when a temperature change happens? I know in some cases this would not work due to time and mission. Thanks.



Yeah, maybe we could implement a "time-out" with the enemy so our soldiers can re-zero when necessary........:munchin

[Swoop]

Post of the day!!!! :eek:

[Gold Eagle]

Let me please re-phrase.

If I have a Eotech, and zero in the spring/summer, and have no issues.

And then as fall/winter sets in re-zero for those conditions. Is that a problem with these optics?

[JJ_BPK]

Is that a problem with these optics?

The problem seems to be with the extreme environments encountered by grunts.

For the everyday shooter, the solution is a simple, re-qual before your event (range, hunt, play).

To say grunts can simply re-qual, to fix a problem that should not have happened, and has been belatedly acknowledged by the manufacture, is not the answer..

Eotech has collected bazillions of tax payer dollars selling a defective product.

[Gold Eagle]

I did contact them an asked about re-furbished units. They replied, they do not sell returned product.

Seems a shame. Will they scrap and lose even more money? Would consider using a questionable one on a defense shotgun.

[FlagDayNCO]

Maybe if EOTech cast biblical references onto their sight base, this wouldn't have happened :cool:

Has there been some changes in the production methods? Changes in engineering?


I always thought the Army, and DOD as a whole, required manufacturers and suppliers to abide by the technical data documents of the contracts.

I find it interesting that all these years later, tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands?) of Federal, DOD, and all those LEO Agencies now have defective sights.

How much shift in the zero may be attributed to the weapons rough handling, dropped, you name it? I've been out for awhile now, but when in country, we would confirm zero when possible.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Confirm zero when possible...

Before optics (and those were usually bought out of pocket personally) I remember when the M16A2 came out and that big knob on the rear sight windage adjustment was new from the old flush steel ring with holes in it and a detent button. Sure it was more precise and easy to set on the range and go qualify but damn that thing was always getting bumped, snagged on uniform or whatever and spun in one direction or the other. You had to always either look at the hash marks or prepare (reset) prior to movement or after airborne infil to know if it got bumped off zero.

They still used that on the M4 and most aftermarket companies still use today for BUIS.

JMHO but LEOS and Feds should be shooting enough every quarter that what they have is recently zeroed to seasonal weather. Problem is storage in the extremes - frozen or burning up in the trunk of a car when needed. Makes me think good old iron sights would be best. Soldiers and those that fly into remote higher or lower locations from base camp with 40+/- degree temperature changes would benefit too from going old school even though it's not tacticool.

Iron sights never failed me...well until this past Wednesday when I pulled my service pistol out in the range and the seven yard warm up drill prior to a qual was, well, not where the bullets should have been hitting the center of the circle I was aiming at. Brand spanking new Sig 229 so f'd up now because the agency screwed Sig over that they have ruined a great gun. Oh what was my problem. You can move the dove tailed front sight post 2mm back in forth by hand. At 15-yards that's enough in one direction to shoot bullseye and pushed over the other way a good five to six inches to the left. :mad: I miss my old gun. Nothing wrong with it just lots of rounds fired and seven years. Worked fine! Had a SRT and big dot tridium sights; can't put an SRT on the new gun that's how messed up Sig is. They have become Kimber quality.

Sorry for the rant...now where was I? Oh optics and extreme temperatures. Never had much luck with frozen batteries and I hate super hot places.

Tennessee elevation and Kentucky windage! Learn it know it. When bullets start flying and you ain't hitting what you're aiming at you better quickly figure out what you are hitting and adjust fire!

[Peregrino]

I had an extensive conversation with an EoTech rep at SHOT this year. For a representative of a company engaged in "damage control" he was unusually candid. (I also shortstopped the usual protestations and established my creds immediately; otherwise I doubt he would have spent the time.) Bottom line - there were four "defects" that had to be addressed; some of them were relatively easy, one can't be fixed within the current technology (the thermal shift). If I were taking the weapon to combat and expecting to face extreme temperature variation over the course of a 24 hour cycle, I would get a different sight. EoTech will make good on returns; L-3's reputation depends on it. As for me - I've got four of them - two 552s and two 553s. They're just fine for the uses I'm putting them to so I'm probably not going to send them in until I have something better. Then again I'm not in the sandbox where it's <40 at night and >110 during the day. And I'm confident that with the occasional zero check, even if it's off a bit I can still get rounds to impact within MOZ (minute of zombie) at <150M. Know your requirements and your capabilities and make a judgement call.


Now why in hell would someone want to put an EoTech on a home defense shotgun? That defies what little common sense I might have possessed at one time. :confused:

[Gold Eagle]

32203


http://www.eotechinc.com/hunting

[Peregrino]

32203


http://www.eotechinc.com/hunting

Bit of a difference between shooting deer with slugs at 75-150 yards and wielding a defensive shotgun at 15-25 yards. I stand by my earlier assertion.

[frostfire]

Makes me think good old iron sights would be best. Soldiers and those that fly into remote higher or lower locations from base camp with 40+/- degree temperature changes would benefit too from going old school even though it's not tacticool.

Iron sights never failed me...

Just curious for those who've been OCONUS with M4/M16 and EOTECH. Is it possible to co-witness the EOTECH with iron sights, then etch/scratch etc. across the rear and front sights setting?
If the EOTECH zero is off, you would now just buy simple alignment check on the irons and if the irons are off, you would know just by checking the scratch alignment.

I set up by buddy's and my own carbine that way. In fact, I returned a red dot and Primary Arms did very well with exchanging the defective unit by that very simple check. I noticed the red dot shifted from the mid, top front sight when the sights were perfectly aligned from range use to overnight, cool storage.

[MR2]

I've been impressed with Primary Arms. Prices are good, sale prices are sale good, but specials are really good. I appreciate their can do spirit and customer service. Intrigued at their OPMOD of scopes and wonder at the quality vs price.

[frostfire]

I've been impressed with Primary Arms. Prices are good, sale prices are sale good, but specials are really good. I appreciate their can do spirit and customer service. Intrigued at their OPMOD of scopes and wonder at the quality vs price.

yep, that red dot is the cheapie, oldie, but goodie, Bushnell TRS-25. Got one on offset mount on the OBR that's GTG still after 5 years and no zero lost. But when I got another for the PDW and the zero shifted from small temperature difference, Primary Arms replaced it promptly and covered the shipping. Can-do-git-r-done spirit indeed :lifter Highly recommended