SGTShaft
09-30-2015, 02:23
In all seriousness I am not trying to create a poo storm in asking this question, this is more out of concern as I may be working with this group if all things go smoothly.
I have seen online and have even heard first hand from Quiet Professionals things to the like of ..."F---ing SEALs!". Rangers seem to have a particular disdain for this group equating them to "tactical morons" or describing their attempts at certain infantry tasks such as an ambush as "pathetic" while at Ranger school and so on and so forth. Couple this with incidents like that at Panama, and Operation Redwings and it makes one wonder a bit.
In reenactments of the raid on the airfield to destroy Noriega's plane, it seemed that the SEALs moved on line to contact!?! to a fortified position. In addition to that the answer to effective fire was to have the element not in contact, run to where the element in contact was and get on line with them (where the effective fire was impacting...) and open fire. No bounding, no flanking, you get the idea. 4 men killed many more wounded. Now this is only a reenactment and perhaps not as accurate as could be, but having seen SEALs do basically the same thing in demonstrations, one has to wonder.
From what I understand, a non NSW navy officer planed their part of the mission much to the dismay of SEALs in the TOC.
The Redwings indecent where there was no immediate egress after being compromised, no crew served weapons, essentially assuming things would go as planned and carrying and conducting business as usual even after things were going bad.
This is not to disparage their courage or mettle. Surely they had that in spades.
Are theses incidents a result of bad doctrine/tactics, or is it just "casualties that happen in war" so to speak?
Are the comments made by some RI's and SF personnel friendly jabs or is there some truth in the jabs? Have some of these deficiencies been corrected (one Ranger said that there had been progress but this was some time ago)?
Once again I ask out of concern and professional opinions of folks that have BTDT, not bashing or to be condescending in any way.
If this is not professional or in bad taste than I will gladly PM QPs and ask in a more discreet manner.
Thank you for your assistance.
I have seen online and have even heard first hand from Quiet Professionals things to the like of ..."F---ing SEALs!". Rangers seem to have a particular disdain for this group equating them to "tactical morons" or describing their attempts at certain infantry tasks such as an ambush as "pathetic" while at Ranger school and so on and so forth. Couple this with incidents like that at Panama, and Operation Redwings and it makes one wonder a bit.
In reenactments of the raid on the airfield to destroy Noriega's plane, it seemed that the SEALs moved on line to contact!?! to a fortified position. In addition to that the answer to effective fire was to have the element not in contact, run to where the element in contact was and get on line with them (where the effective fire was impacting...) and open fire. No bounding, no flanking, you get the idea. 4 men killed many more wounded. Now this is only a reenactment and perhaps not as accurate as could be, but having seen SEALs do basically the same thing in demonstrations, one has to wonder.
From what I understand, a non NSW navy officer planed their part of the mission much to the dismay of SEALs in the TOC.
The Redwings indecent where there was no immediate egress after being compromised, no crew served weapons, essentially assuming things would go as planned and carrying and conducting business as usual even after things were going bad.
This is not to disparage their courage or mettle. Surely they had that in spades.
Are theses incidents a result of bad doctrine/tactics, or is it just "casualties that happen in war" so to speak?
Are the comments made by some RI's and SF personnel friendly jabs or is there some truth in the jabs? Have some of these deficiencies been corrected (one Ranger said that there had been progress but this was some time ago)?
Once again I ask out of concern and professional opinions of folks that have BTDT, not bashing or to be condescending in any way.
If this is not professional or in bad taste than I will gladly PM QPs and ask in a more discreet manner.
Thank you for your assistance.