View Full Version : Red Light Cameras
The first few Red Light Cameras have been up and running for a few weeks now in Fayetteville. The first couple of weeks were warnings - now tickets are being issued.
The FayOb posted a clip last week of some runners. This week continues with some more. Most are at the Morganton/Skibo intersection and the Reilly Road and entrance to the Stewart's Creek condos.
Most are not "clipped the yellow" but flat out went through a red light.
http://www.fayobserver.com/video/new-video-more-fayetteville-red-light-runners-caught-by-cameras/youtube_8af6c2e0-3ab4-11e5-afb4-b3b60fc876ca.html
Streck-Fu
08-04-2015, 11:10
I am not opposed to the idea of red light cameras and the citations for running obvious red lights as it is common practice that your light can turn green and you still have to wait for 3 cars to dash through the intersection.
However, the reality is too often that it becomes a money generating scheme for both the city and whatever company contracted to manage the system.
Damn Pete Fayetnam is way behind in getting them. Many Cities are already past that fad and removing them as has been stated. They turn into a management company making money not solving the problem. Also many courts now throw out them as being manipulated to get funds. ABQ removed them and that is a feat in this tree hugger state. Accidents did not go down and the only thing that went up was the management company's bottom line.
Good luck with them. Wait for the stop turn right on red tickets. Some systems have problems with it or have been manipulated to make it look like you ran through the intersection......:p
PedOncoDoc
08-04-2015, 11:30
Damn Pete Fayetnam is way behind in getting them. Many Cities are already past that fad and removing them as has been stated. They turn into a management company making money not solving the problem. Also many courts now throw out them as being manipulated to get funds. ABQ removed them and that is a feat in this tree hugger state. Accidents did not go down and the only thing that went up was the management company's bottom line.
Good luck with them. Wait for the stop turn right on red tickets. Some systems have problems with it or have been manipulated to make it look like you ran through the intersection......:p
When I was in Cleveland, Ohio, they had red light cameras that also tracked vehicle speed. The accident rate went UP because people were slamming on the brakes just before intersections so they didn't get popped for speeding, which resulting in them getting rear-ended.
mojaveman
08-04-2015, 11:35
Agree with the other statements here. I don't really like the idea behind using them but then again I wish people in the area where I live would follow the damned rules while driving. At over $400.00 for running a red light I thought the fines were a little excessive.
The city administration where I live removed everyone off them.
The part I like is that they have the camera plus the video. In the night shots you can see the flash trigger.
The paper has said they would pull the picture and review the video clip before sending out the ticket. That is supposed to cut out the right turn on red tickets.
We did have them years back but they were all taken down because of a fight over where the ticket money went. The school system wanted 100% so the city would have been in the hole over costs.
They worked it out and the cameras are back. As you can see from the videos there are some blatant runners in Fayetteville. Will not be long before they have an accident on video.
Red Flag 1
08-04-2015, 12:33
This has been going on in De. for several years. Mostly on Rte 13. The one that caught my wife, was on the right side of a shcool bus doing the exact same thing. I asked if the school bus driver was cited as well? You can guess what the answer to that question was.:rolleyes:.
When I was in Cleveland, Ohio, they had red light cameras that also tracked vehicle speed. The accident rate went UP because people were slamming on the brakes just before intersections so they didn't get popped for speeding, which resulting in them getting rear-ended.
Mostly because the cities would shorten the yellow time by a few seconds.
I got popped by one of those awhile back ... while driving an ambulance, transporting a patient (more on that later) ...
Here's what I learned when I went in to fight it ...
First off, I was sent, actually my company was sent, a notice of the infraction, which had four different photos attached. One was of the area of me entering the intersection AFTER the light had changed to red along with a time stamp of when the camera went off of when I was "caught". Two others showed the front and rear license plates of the vehicle (sic ... Ambulance) I was in and lastly, the forth one was a photo of me driving. This is for ID purposes.
I was then directed to go to the City's (Denver) web site where I could watch a video of the me entering the intersection. The video starts when the light cycles to yellow and continues on for approximately four seconds after the light cycles to red.
Here in CO, yellow lights MUST remain on for four seconds after cycling from green. If they don't and you're nabbed "running" a red light, you can get that infraction dismissed.
Also too, you must come to a complete stop at the stop line (solid white line before the intersection). Either before it or your front tires "landing" on it. There were several people in court who did stop for the red light, but were either in the cross walk or past it. Judge said "Nope. You must stop at the stop line. $75.00. Pay the cashier as you leave. Next."
So, if you or you know of anyone (family, friend, etc.) who does get nailed, make sure you can view the tape and get the information of your area, about how long the yellow light needs to remain on before cycling to red.
These things have been fought over around here for years. Studies have shown that they do NOT decrease accidents at intersections, but that they increase them. As stated above, people slamming on their breaks (brakes) when the light cycles, or "riding" their breaks (brakes) when entering an intersection and the light is still green. It's been shown that these things are nothing more than revenue generating devices. NOT safety devices. But the current Dem/Lib/Progressive/Socialist government currently in power here in CO, don't want to get rid of them. Go figure. :rolleyes:
Now, on to my incident ....
Picked up a patient who was in pretty rough shape. Before taking off towards the Hsp. I asked my partner if he wanted to go emergent? He thought about it for awhile, which means that we should have, but he said, "No, make in Non ... But we might be stepping it up later."
This was for the fact that my partner was alone in the back and was busy, and I MEAN BUSY, working on this guy, and with the jostling of the rig while going emergent, it is a pain in the ass while working on someone. Besides, we really didn't like driving emergent, not because of the that, but because of the other drivers LOOSE THEIR FREAKING MINDS when they see an emergent vehicle (EMS, Police, Fire) which actually causes a danger when we do.
Anyway, as I was driving, I approached this intersection and saw the light cycle to yellow and started to apply the breaks (brakes), as was seen in the video. The thing is, this intersection where this camera is at, is at the bottom of a small hill. Stopping a large vehicle like an ambulance, especially on a downward slope, does not come easy. So, I applied the brakes (didn't have to change this one :p) a little harder.
As I did, I heard a loud "WHOA !!!!" from the back and glanced up to notice my partner was standing up over the patient "working" hard. Again, that silly physics thing comes into play. Had I stopped, I very well could have "thrown" my partner into the wall. I had done that to one previous partner, this time someone cut infront of us as we were proceeding through an intersection, thusly ending her career with back problems, I wasn't about to do it again. Also too, that current partner had RA and had had a hip replacement years prior, so I wasn't about to end another career.
The tape showed that I entered the intersection when the light turned red at approx. 0.43 seconds. It's not like I was deliberately trying to run the light.
Well, I went to court to fight it, but the judge said "Sorry, you did get caught running a red light, but since you were transporting a patient, I'll knock $20.00 off. Next"
Not only did I have to pay that fine, but due to company policy, I ended up with two weeks on the beach with no pay. But that's okay ... I got my pound of flesh from them later. ;)
Old Dog New Trick
08-04-2015, 14:25
That was painful to read.:D
(Don't break your brakes)
That was painful to read.:D
(Don't break your brakes)
D'oh !!!!
What can I say, I'm a product of Ela area district 95, Lake County, Illinois - public school system.
I soulda moved to Georgia when I had the chance. Then maybe I coulda learned me to spell better. :cool:
Team Sergeant
08-04-2015, 14:55
Very soon like Arizona, some smart individual will bring a case to court that states the only folks that can give a ticket is a sworn law enforcement officer and not a machine or a contract company. Then they will be gone. But first some "lawyer" needs to get caught.
Old Dog New Trick
08-04-2015, 14:58
Twenty years ago, I used ride my bike (bicycle) from Spring Lake, to Bragg (Smoke Bomb Hill) every day. Crossing Bragg Blvd at Honeycutt was always taking my life into my own hands. The through traffic kept coming after red and the cross traffic was ready to zoom after the last red light runner in all directions.
There was a four second rule, don't proceed for at least four seconds after the light turned green, 'cause no one's stopping for yellows -or red! :eek:
Old Dog New Trick
08-04-2015, 15:02
Very soon like Arizona, some smart individual will bring a case to court that states the only folks that can give a ticket is a sworn law enforcement officer and not a machine or a contract company. Then they will be gone. But first some "lawyer" needs to get caught.
I think already been fought. And lost, on the grounds that an officer has to issue the ticket based on the "cameras" evidence. (At least in WA)
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/02/06/court-says-police-cant-outsource-red-light-traffic-ticket-revie/
When business partners with Government to suppress or control the population it is known as Fascism. A political ideology that imposes strict social and economical measures as a method of empowering the government and stripping citizens of rights.
http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2013/08/red-light-camera-settlement-42m-for-nj-drivers.html
miclo18d
08-06-2015, 05:49
Is this new? I seem to recall a red light camera at Yadkin and Santa Fe back around 2005.
Or, I just became a FOG and am losing my memory. :eek:
Is this new? I seem to recall a red light camera at Yadkin and Santa Fe back around 2005. ...
My Post # 6.
They had them here in Fayetteville but they were removed over where the money went. Law was that 100% of traffic fines went to the school system. The Company that ran the cameras was taking a big chunk of the money passing on the rest to the city. The school system wanted it all so the city would have to fund 100% of the company's operation - so they shut it down.
They've "fixed" the funding so the cameras are back.
There was an activist that so successfully fought these red light cameras that he was offered (and took) a $100K do nothing job from them. :mad:
Missouri Supreme Court Delivers Three Strikes Against Photo Tickets
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/47/4770.asp
"The highest court in Missouri on Monday struck down red light camera and speed camera programs. In three separate cases, the high court judges found that the cameras unconstitutionally shifted the burden of proof by forcing ticket recipients to prove their own innocence. The judges also found that the creation of "civil" citations and administrative hearings for moving traffic violations violated state law...."
&
"..."Failing to obey a traffic control device, or running a red light, is a moving violation as defined by section 302.010 because the motor vehicle involved in the violation is in motion at the time the violation occurs," the high court ruled in St. Peters v. Roeder (view ruling, 180k PDF). "Accordingly, [state law] requires that a person found to violate ordinance 4356 by running a red light have two points assessed against his or her driving record. On the other hand, ordinance 4536 states that no points will be assessed. Ordinance 4536 conflicts with state law by prohibiting what state law permits -- the assessment of two points for violating ordinance 4536."
Instead of declaring the entire ordinance invalid, the high court decided to strike only the provision stating that no points would be assessed to recipients of photo tickets. Several of the high court judges dissented, arguing the court majority was wrong to suggest in a footnote that cities could issue automated tickets as long as the driver was photographed, positively identified and points applied to his license..."