Concealed carry and sexual assault

[Bechorg]

Hello,

Some questions for you guys who are concealed carry law guru's, I cannot seem to find the answers to online. I am looking to get my wife a concealed carry permit, most of our questions have to do with if the threat of sexual assault is enough to justify a "deadly threat".

My wife was in a stairwell when a guy pushed her up against the wall and put his hand up her dress onto her stomach. She kneed him in the balls to get him off, but would this threat been enough to pull and fire at this individual? How would this have played out in court? How do other sexual assault situations like rape play into this mix of "deadly threats"?

Thanks!

[DJ Urbanovsky]

I think that's going to depend on how the laws are written in your locale. Here in Nebraska, you can use deadly force against threats against your life, grievous bodily harm, rape, or kidnapping.

[Sdiver]

The threat of sexual assault most definitely falls under using deadly force to terminate the action of the attacker.

"A person in lawful possession or control of premises, as defined in Section 13A-3-20, or a person who is licensed or privileged to be thereon, may use physical force upon another person when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it necessary to prevent or terminate what he reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission of a criminal trespass by the other person in or upon such premises.
A person may use deadly physical force under the circumstances set forth in subsection (a) of this section only:
In defense of a person, as provided in Section 13A-3-23; or
When he reasonably believes it necessary to prevent the commission of arson in the first or second degree by the trespasser."


Taken from here ... http://definitions.uslegal.com/u/use-of-deadly-force/

PM me your state and I'm sure I can find the specific rules governing your situation.

[PSM]

Here's what we have here in Arizona:

A. A person is justified in threatening or using both physical force and deadly physical force against another if and to the extent the person reasonably believes that physical force or deadly physical force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's commission of arson of an occupied structure under section 13-1704, burglary in the second or first degree under section 13-1507 or 13-1508, kidnapping under section 13-1304, manslaughter under section 13-1103, second or first degree murder under section 13-1104 or 13-1105, sexual conduct with a minor under section 13-1405, sexual assault under section 13-1406, child molestation under section 13-1410, armed robbery under section 13-1904 or aggravated assault under section 13-1204, subsection A, paragraphs 1 and 2.

B. There is no duty to retreat before threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force justified by subsection A of this section.

C. A person is presumed to be acting reasonably for the purposes of this section if the person is acting to prevent what the person reasonably believes is the imminent or actual commission of any of the offenses listed in subsection A of this section.

D. This section includes the use or threatened use of physical force or deadly physical force in a person's home, residence, place of business, land the person owns or leases, conveyance of any kind, or any other place in this state where a person has a right to be.

Of course, the jury always gets the last word.

Pat

[Sdiver]

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[therunningwolf]

It's going to depend on both the laws in your state, and your wife's ability to articulate why she made the decision to use deadly force. But I would imagine she could have a very strong case.

Rape and murder happen everyday, and often go hand in hand. If she is being raped who is to say he will not kill her (a very highly likelihood) to get rid of a witness. While this doesn't happen in every case, it is also not uncommon.

She will have a few things going for her if she does get into a use of deadly force situation, number one being she is female. A jury is almost always going to be sympathetic with a victim, especially a female victim of sexual assault. The second will come down to biology, was her attacker clearly bigger and stronger then her? 110 pound female against an aggressive and muscular 200 pound man (notice the wording? Articulate) who obviously doesn't value her life in any way? There is another point for your defense. It's all in how you can articulate it, a good emotional well worded speech on the stand is all it will take to sway a jury, and keep in mind you are ALWAYS talking to the jury. You don't need to win over the other sides legal team, you need to win the jury.

If you want to PM me the state you're in i'll see if I can reach out to some contacts and get you some more info or maybe get you a POC on someone more in the know.

[Scimitar]

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S

[MR2]

This US Map is hot-linked to the state Information for each of the states in the United States and its possessions. Simply click on the states abbreviation on the map to view that state's information page in a new browser window. To view the All U.S. Page, click on U.S.A. at the bottom of the map to the left.

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[casey]

My wife was in a stairwell when a guy pushed her up against the wall and put his hand up her dress onto her stomach. She kneed him in the balls to get him off, but would this threat been enough to pull and fire at this individual? How would this have played out in court? How do other sexual assault situations like rape play into this mix of "deadly threats"?

Thanks!


I wouldn't worry so much about how local jurisdictions or courts would see this - she needs to get out of the situation alive first. Obviously, any POS who can commit an act like this to your wife or any woman is no cherry to either sexual assault or the criminal justice system.

Good on your wife for having the presence of mind to physically get herself out of the situation - but I've rarely seen it end that well. Her articulation of an isolated area, her being physical assaulted & restrained, and escalation via ongoing sexual assault all leads her to being in imminent fear for her life = fire for effect.

[Hand]

The key is for your wife to articulate that she felt her life was in danger and how. If she is afraid the rapist may be positive for Hep B, C or HIV then she feels her life is in danger. For the most part she would probably not be charged but every situation is different as is every state and sadly every county and/or LE department. If it were the sheriff office I used to work for in California she probably would not have been arrested. If it happened in San Francisco she probably would be.

Wish there was a clear cut answer but there really is not one.

How could someone in a situation like OP's wife make an accurate determination upon initial contact between the intent of an attacker to rape versus rape and murder, or rape, murder, kidnap and torture to death?

[SPARTAN A045]

I can only speak from my personal personal experience as a Marine Sentry when I was stationed at Marine Barracks Washington.

We were always taught that the United States Government has defined 7 justifications for the use of deadly force.

1. In defense of property involving national security.
2. In defense of property not involving national security but inherently dangerous to others.
3. Self defense or defense of others
4. To prevent or interrupt serious offenses against others (i.e. rape)
5. Apprehensions or Arrests
6. Escapes
7. Lawful order from competent authority

Ive always considered this a good guideline for when its a good idea to pull the trigger. And if it was my wife, you're damn right Id tell her to take the shot if she had the chance. She might not get a second chance.

But I completely agree with the above posts in that the important thing is for her to be able to articulate that she felt threatened enough to use deadly force.

Hope that helps!