View Full Version : Army to increase the number of Sapper courses
I have always thought this is a good course to attend.
So the war(s) are going away, yet just NOW DA and Ft Wood is looking to increase their numbers. Hummmm
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/07/23/army-increase-sapper-courses-beginning-october/30569755/
maybe it is to accommodate the amount of women that are prepping for ranger school...
More slots, but still closed to all but Engineer MOS's, because clearly no other MOS could benefit from the skills taught.
Maybe Ranger School should revert to its late 90's policy of only allowing combat arms branches to attend.
doc22584
07-24-2015, 13:59
More slots, but still closed to all but Engineer MOS's, because clearly no other MOS could benefit from the skills taught.
Maybe Ranger School should revert to its late 90's policy of only allowing combat arms branches to attend.
My intel is old, but I went to Sapper School as an 18E in late 2010. the eighty deuce didn't have any space for me in their pre-ranger course so I went to Sapper School instead.
maybe it is to accommodate the amount of women that are prepping for ranger school...
... or to give women a bit easier path to get a tab.
My intel is old, but I went to Sapper School as an 18E in late 2010. the eighty deuce didn't have any space for me in their pre-ranger course so I went to Sapper School instead.
You're likely among the last year or two to do so, brother. From the bottom of the Army Times article:
"To better meet the needs of the engineer regiment, the Sapper Leader Course is also now closed to other military occupational specialties, Wittmeyer said.
“We’re falling short, so right now the focus is to get those [additional skill identifier]-focused slots filled,” he said. “We can’t give away the slots that 12Bs need to fill.”
The school could be opened to other MOSs in the future, he said. In the meantime, soldiers from the infantry or Special Forces MOSs can apply for a waiver to attend the course.
Students who graduate from the course, which has been open to female soldiers since 1999, earn the coveted Sapper tab."
tom kelly
07-26-2015, 12:10
I have a copy of the 2013 Academic Handbook for the U S ARMY JFK SPECIAL WARFARE CENTER AND SCHOOL and on page 40 of the course catalog titled SPECIAL FORCES > Advanced Skills The Special Forces Sniper Course (SFSC) course number 2E-F67/011-ASIW3. The length of this course is 8 weeks. ALSO offered is THE Special Forces Advanced Reconnaissance Target Analysis Exploitation Techniques Course number 2-E-F133/011-F46. This course is 8 weeks duration also. Would successful completion of both courses allow the student to be awarded the Sapper Tab? Tom Kelly
The Reaper
07-26-2015, 12:43
I have a copy of the 2013 Academic Handbook for the U S ARMY JFK SPECIAL WARFARE CENTER AND SCHOOL and on page 40 of the course catalog titled SPECIAL FORCES > Advanced Skills The Special Forces Sniper Course (SFSC) course number 2E-F67/011-ASIW3. The length of this course is 8 weeks. ALSO offered is THE Special Forces Advanced Reconnaissance Target Analysis Exploitation Techniques Course number 2-E-F133/011-F46. This course is 8 weeks duration also. Would successful completion of both courses allow the student to be awarded the Sapper Tab? Tom Kelly
No, why would they?
TR
Women are already allowed in Sapper School.
I know. Institutional push to demonstrate that women are the same as men in all areas + more courses = more women with tabs
More women with tabs + targeted PAO coverage (can't say "PSYOPS" because we don't do that CONUS)= happy leadership
(the Ranger tab may take a bit more engineering, so this would be a quick win)
Maybe i'm cynical.
You're likely among the last year or two to do so, brother. From the bottom of the Army Times article:
"To better meet the needs of the engineer regiment, the Sapper Leader Course is also now closed to other military occupational specialties, Wittmeyer said.
“We’re falling short, so right now the focus is to get those [additional skill identifier]-focused slots filled,” he said. “We can’t give away the slots that 12Bs need to fill.”
The school could be opened to other MOSs in the future, he said. In the meantime, soldiers from the infantry or Special Forces MOSs can apply for a waiver to attend the course.
Students who graduate from the course, which has been open to female soldiers since 1999, earn the coveted Sapper tab."
What Ft Wood and Sapper School is doing is no different than when Ranger School closes off slots from Combat Support to Combat Arms to only 11 Series slots. They have done the same thing over the years too.
Ft Wood, Engineer Fort Leonard Wood's Maneuver Support Center of Excellence, "Engineer Center," had to open Sapper School up to women after DA forced them to open Platoon Leader Positions on the Combat Engineer Company Level Positions. If a Female was going to lead a 21B (12B) Combat Engineers Platoons and future Company Commanders, they had to, since Male Company Commander were excepted to be Sapper Tab Qualified. This was the first Social Engineering experiment within the Army, and in the Army's eyes it has WORKED.
I have a copy of the 2013 Academic Handbook for the U S ARMY JFK SPECIAL WARFARE CENTER AND SCHOOL and on page 40 of the course catalog titled SPECIAL FORCES > Advanced Skills The Special Forces Sniper Course (SFSC) course number 2E-F67/011-ASIW3. The length of this course is 8 weeks. ALSO offered is THE Special Forces Advanced Reconnaissance Target Analysis Exploitation Techniques Course number 2-E-F133/011-F46. This course is 8 weeks duration also. Would successful completion of both courses allow the student to be awarded the Sapper Tab? Tom Kelly
No it would be like asking, "Would successful completion of both courses allow the student to be awarded the Ranger Tab?"
I have a copy of the 2013 Academic Handbook for the U S ARMY JFK SPECIAL WARFARE CENTER AND SCHOOL and on page 40 of the course catalog titled SPECIAL FORCES > Advanced Skills The Special Forces Sniper Course (SFSC) course number 2E-F67/011-ASIW3. The length of this course is 8 weeks. ALSO offered is THE Special Forces Advanced Reconnaissance Target Analysis Exploitation Techniques Course number 2-E-F133/011-F46. This course is 8 weeks duration also. Would successful completion of both courses allow the student to be awarded the Sapper Tab? Tom Kelly
Sapper Tab? No. Sniper Tab? Maybe.
How about a Warrior Cop Tab? CyberWar Tab? Ate All My Peas Tab?
Sapper Tab? No. Sniper Tab? Maybe.
How about a Warrior Cop Tab? CyberWar Tab? Ate All My Peas Tab?
Let's just take away all the tabs. Let your performance prove that you can do the task. Back to full flash, and have guys wear nothing but U.S. army, name tape and unit insignia. We don't need a stinking tab and badges to prove who we are.
5thgrp"C"
09-03-2015, 20:36
Let's just take away all the tabs. Let your performance prove that you can do the task. Back to full flash, and have guys wear nothing but U.S. army, name tape and unit insignia. We don't need a stinking tab and badges to prove who we are.
What would we do with all that spare velcro?