Active shooter in Chattanooga .... islamic terrorist

[UWOA (RIP)]

Officials in Chattanooga, Tenn., responded to reports of an active shooter after one person was shot at a naval reserve center Thursday morning.

Early Thursday afternoon, Chattanooga Police announced via Twitter that "the active shooter situation is over."

[glebo]

I'll beat Billy to the punch...maybe.

I hope the shooter has a FB pic with a gay pride flag.....that way, we can ban that also.....:lifter

Seriously, hope no one got hurt or worse...

[UWOA (RIP)]

I'll beat Billy to the punch...maybe.

I hope the shooter has a FB pic with a gay pride flag.....that way, we can ban that also.....:lifter

Seriously, hope no one got hurt or worse...

One officer and two Marines wounded ... the POS shooter was 'neutralized' ....

.

[glebo]

yeah, just saw that after I posted...

RIP to the fallen and prayers to their families.

Getting crazy out there....

[UWOA (RIP)]

News just updated with information now that four Marines died in the gunfire. It's now being characterized as an act of domestic terrorism.

Damn, if they had been armed they might have been able to reduce the number of casualties. This crap needs to stop!

.

[Streck-Fu]

I am seeing 5 dead (including shooter)..... :mad:

[Team Sergeant]

Since 9/11 I've been saying arm everyone in uniform. We're one of the only countries that doesn't arm our guys at home, and it f**king costing us!

[Santo Tomas]

So will be to blame? A copycat. ISIS or an internet warrior?

[UWOA (RIP)]

Since 9/11 I've been saying arm everyone in uniform. We're one of the only countries that doesn't arm our guys at home, and it f**king costing us!

Top,

I'm in complete agreement, but it can't be just the combat arms folks ... these cowards will always go after the weakest link. If they've completed basic/AIT/OSUT for whatever MOS, they need to be armed.

.

[Pete]

"...Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez..."


Now lets not blame the group for the individual.

[Team Sergeant]

Let's see this is America where we will criminalize and punish those Christian bakers for following their beliefs and awarding the gender confused their business.


America the same country that will happily sell any weapon to a muslim to go and kill other Americans.


When do we vote the muslims off the island?

[Old Dog New Trick]

I'll never understand the Commander's intent when the current threat level is "HIGH" for individual attacks against military and law enforcement personnel and no one in charge states the obvious.

It's like pulling guard duty over hundreds or thousands of lives with an empty rifle in your hands - what's the point? :rolleyes:

Arm them now! It's already too late for those lost. RIP Marines your country's leaders failed you.

[Hand]

"...Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez..."


Now lets not blame the group for the individual.

Now now, let's not all get in a tizzy just because he has a funny name and it starts with Muhammad. The FBI has already branded it "domestic terrorism", not "islamic terrorism".

My condolences to the fallen.

[Badger52]

"...Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez..."


Now lets not blame the group for the individual.

Once again, it was not a Labrador Retriever.

[Unique Calling]

I saw this on an elevator on Ft Bragg... I think it sums up our ludicrous state of affairs (concerning gun free zones on military installations). It is insane that we cannot be armed while on post, or on duty at a recruitment office.

Step 1, RUN
Step 2, HIDE
Step 3, If you MUST, then FIGHT

[Bechorg]

Since the response from the Ft. Hood incident was to "shelter in place" I can't foresee any changes happening from this. The sad fact is politicians both state and national do not want a service member on service member shooting on their soil due to policies that they changed.

We need to be armed just as we are armed in every other country we travel to, it is unacceptable that our leadership are not fighting to protect us. It boggles my mind that Johnny Civilian can carry whatever he wants with permit, but even our Special Forces cannot carry, are you kidding me? I have undoubtedly more small arms training and deadly encounters than most law enforcement. We continue to be reactionary and people will continue to die. I am a sitting duck from the time I walk out of my door until I come back home. Will it take one of us being beheaded in the street for something to change?

Some criteria for new service member carry legislation I belive should be pushed:

- E-6 and above can overt or conceal carry while in uniform, on or off base. Their status while off post should be similar to that of a Peace Officer focusing on surviving violent encounters.

- Company Commanders can authorize those below E-6 to conceal carry at their discretion, based on maturity and experience but preventing firearms in the barracks.

- DoD concealed carry pistol course which issues permits, because nation wide reciprocity doesn't exist

[Joker]

IS took credit for it when it was happening.

Rest in Peace.

[Sohei]

Rest In Peace, my Brothers!

[BryanK]

Rest in peace Marines :(

Shouldn't this atrocity, along with past atrocities of a similar nature constitute reason enough for commanders to arm their people?

This is just the beginning.

[Stobey]

Rest in peace Marines. My prayers out to you and your loved ones. And may the Mahoundian SOB rot in hell.

[Utah Bob]

Arm military personnel? Probably won't happen.
Hell, look how people freaking out about Jade Helm troops. And they only have blanks.

[TOMAHAWK9521]

Prayers to the fallen and their families.

This is why my coworker and I disobeyed COARNG orders and were always armed when we were full-timers at the the Ft Collins armory when C/5/19 was still there. Having identified active surveillance of our armory, we requested funding and materials for the same force protection measures that had been put in place at the state HQ. The state denied our request even though we had weapons and equipment for an entire SF company in our little building.

They did think, however, that it would be a neat idea for us to go ahead and post the huge unit sign out on the street so people could find us. We tossed that nice big sign in a storage unit. Instead, we coordinated with the Larimer County sheriff's office for possible contingencies.

My partner and I realized that it's better to get in trouble for being found well armed, in direct violation of orders, than to get cut down like a couple of office jockeys and be the shame of SF.

[glebo]

Since the response from the Ft. Hood incident was to "shelter in place" I can't foresee any changes happening from this. The sad fact is politicians both state and national do not want a service member on service member shooting on their soil due to policies that they changed.

We need to be armed just as we are armed in every other country we travel to, it is unacceptable that our leadership are not fighting to protect us. It boggles my mind that Johnny Civilian can carry whatever he wants with permit, but even our Special Forces cannot carry, are you kidding me? I have undoubtedly more small arms training and deadly encounters than most law enforcement. We continue to be reactionary and people will continue to die. I am a sitting duck from the time I walk out of my door until I come back home. Will it take one of us being beheaded in the street for something to change?

Some criteria for new service member carry legislation I belive should be pushed:

- E-6 and above can overt or conceal carry while in uniform, on or off base. Their status while off post should be similar to that of a Peace Officer focusing on surviving violent encounters.

- Company Commanders can authorize those below E-6 to conceal carry at their discretion, based on maturity and experience but preventing firearms in the barracks.

- DoD concealed carry pistol course which issues permits, because nation wide reciprocity doesn't exist

one can only hope. With this admin...highly improbable. Could have been prevented.

However, I think Barak Hussien Obama may not be as diligent....

[T-Rock]

Everyone knows Islam is a religion of peace, so there's no way it could have been a motivating factor... :rolleyes:

Rest in peace Marines... :(

[trvlr]

one can only hope. With this admin...highly improbable. Could have been prevented.

However, I think Barak Hussien Obama may not be as diligent....

Have we ever been allowed to carry en mass?

I like the Commander's discretion idea. If you know your troops, it's unlikely that you'll allow two idiots to concealed carry and even more unlikely that you'll have a shootout in your work area.

[2018commo]

Military Lives Matter

[PSM]

Military Lives Matter

Excellent!

Pat

[therunningwolf]

This is ridiculous, how many more before something gets done?

I really don't know what to tell ya, I think I can speak for the majority if not all LEOs when I say we got your backs, you call and we're coming, but how much that is worth I don't know.

Our Armory is in the city limits, thus PD can be there from pretty much anywhere in 5 minutes tops, but us SO? Could be 30-45 minutes depending on where we are in the county. That's way to long of a reaction time. Until those individuals with the shiny brass and big pay checks start acting like leaders our .MIL guys are pretty much screwed.

Make no mistake, the call goes out we'll be hauling tail to get to ya'll but 9/10 times we aren't gonna make it in time. It's long since past time for the brass to start thinking about the solution and not the problem.

I know that certified LEOs are allowed to carry on Camp Shelby, so there is a precedent. Does anyone know of any similar laws that exist in regards to LEOs on state installations? Federal? I am not sure if this exception extends to other facilities in MS or if it is restricted to Shelby. It may not be the best, but if we can get all LEOs the right to carry on all state installations in their state, that will be a start seeing as how many LEOs we have in the Guard as it is. Could be a quick means to give ya'll at least a fighting chance until a permanent solution is implemented, may even be able to use it as a testing grounds of sorts, a way to show "hey, this actually does work" to the big birds.

While I am not recommending anyone break any laws, concealed carry is called concealed for a reason.

[Bleed Green]

I saw this on an elevator on Ft Bragg... I think it sums up our ludicrous state of affairs (concerning gun free zones on military installations). It is insane that we cannot be armed while on post, or on duty at a recruitment office.

Step 1, RUN
Step 2, HIDE
Step 3, If you MUST, then FIGHT

I have to take an annual online active shooter course and this appears to be the standard line across govt. I was surprised the powers that be didn't ask us to lock up our sidearms when we hid.

Our deepest sympathies to the families and friends of those that fell today. You all are in our thoughts and prayers.

[(1VB)compforce]

and... Trump weighs in http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-would-end-gun-free-zones-on-military-bases/article/2567907

For someone that many on the board appear to hate or just dismiss, he sure does keep getting it right. This isn't the first time he's said that military should be able to carry on post.

[JGC2]

Hey, at least POTUS offered an "Eid Mubarak" AFTER the Chattanooga shooting...

[x SF med]

RIP Marines.

[Dame]

I have to take an annual online active shooter course and this appears to be the standard line across govt. I was surprised the powers that be didn't ask us to lock up our sidearms when we hid.

Our deepest sympathies to the families and friends of those that fell today. You all are in our thoughts and prayers.

Yeah, we got business size cards handed to us. Printed with tax dollars by DHS no less. I threw mine in the trash.

Rest in peace, Marines.





Burn in hell, mfsob.

[Pete]

And ABC's Clinton mouthpiece asks "What are you doing to ensure the Muslim community feels safe......."

[BlueYing]

And ABC's Clinton mouthpiece asks "What are you doing to ensure the Muslim community feels safe......."

Wait, what? First, the Muslims weren't the ones attacked. Second, do they think the military or prior military is going to go on the offensive? That we'll start looting our neighborhoods, setting stuff on fire, killing random Muslims?

[Hand]

And ABC's Clinton mouthpiece asks "What are you doing to ensure the Muslim community feels safe......."

I remember the talking heads and political pillow biters going all out to ensure the muslim community felt safe after 9/11.

The fires were still burning and the rescue workers still searching for survivors and these ball juggling motherfuckers were worried about making muslims feel safe.

[blacksmoke]

Maybe after we lift the sanctions on Iran, and end the aggression against Muslim countries the attacks will stop? From CNN:"He always fit in," she said. "He had a big group of friends. He was never bullied or treated like an outcast. He was pretty popular." And he was funny. "Always had a witty comment to add." It seems there is something else driving these attacks from otherwise peaceful people that can't be explained...
RIP Marines

[Streck-Fu]

Bored suburban youths from upper middle class families that are experiencing the best of the American Dream....So much for the idea that potential terrorists jsut need good jobs....

[Team Sergeant]

Maybe after we lift the sanctions on Iran, and end the aggression against Muslim countries the attacks will stop? From CNN:"He always fit in," she said. "He had a big group of friends. He was never bullied or treated like an outcast. He was pretty popular." And he was funny. "Always had a witty comment to add." It seems there is something else driving these attacks from otherwise peaceful people that can't be explained...RIP Marines

You mean you cannot explain, I can it's called islam and it kills.

If you can't understand that go and do some reading.

[blacksmoke]

Sorry TS, I was being facetious.

[Team Sergeant]

Sorry TS, I was being facetious.

Pink font. Only I get away without using pink font.

[craigepo]

Do recruiting stations not have at least a "field box" with a few pistols and magazines close at hand?

Hell, it might be time for a lawsuit by a recruiter talking about his/her 2nd Amendment rights to carry to work. This is not the first recruiting station to get hit. And they seem to be a very soft target.

[Hand]

Its called faith, and it most definitely kills.

I can explain the concept fairly well, though many don't want to hear it.



Sam Harris does a pretty good job of describing the dangers of faith in general, and a fantastic job rationally explaining the dangers of islam.

[Box]

Four innocent people murdered in cold blood over an ideology and yet there are liberals tripping over each other to put the right spin on it so they can advance some agendas.
...or, you know, protect the innocent muslims

I wonder if there is some sort of pill I could take that would help me understand the thoughts of liberal apologists...
...I am quite content being called a hypocrite, it makes it easier to maintain my position when I just say "because I am a hypocrite"

Liberals on the other hand...
...for fuck sake.

"Bush did it"
"Regan did it"
"Nixon did it"

...I am absolutely astonished that liberals have such an empty shirt, and such an absence of fire in their belly that they cant own their chosen brand of political hypocrisy.

I embrace my hypocrisy:
death penalty = justice
abortion = murder
I understand that at the human level killing to avenge killing is just murder wrapped up in a tuxedo-but damn I sure do love the cathartic feel of vengeful justice.

what I don't understand however:
white male criminal = domestic terrorist
Islamo-facist motivated multiple murder= random crime
returning veterans = possible terror threat
radicalized muslim = freedom of speech exerciser
400 make-a-wish foundation events = most don't even know who he is
buying some titties and wearing a dress = courageous celebrity
cutting down an old growth pine tree that may or may not cause the death or injury of a spotted owl or a redheaded cocksucker woodpecker = murder
late term abortion = planned parenthood



What the fuck is wrong with people?


...but you know, I'm just a hypocrite
which I am ok with

[blacksmoke]

I embrace my hypocrisy:
death penalty = justice
abortion = murder
I understand that at the human level killing to avenge killing is just murder wrapped up in a tuxedo-but damn I sure do love the cathartic feel of vengeful justice.

...but you know, I'm just a hypocrite
which I am ok with

Or killing to avenge killing will probably prevent more killing. Jesus was capitally punished, and he even never came out against that.

[SF-TX]

Its called faith, and it most definitely kills.

I can explain the concept fairly well, though many don't want to hear it.


Oh, do tell. I will make the assumption that since you use the term 'faith', and not Islam, you are referring to all faiths.

[SF-TX]

Spot on.

Ok. Now humor us with your explanation of the concept of how all faiths most definitely kill.

[Scimitar]

I can cite dozens of cases of Christians going off the reservation and killing in the name of Jesus. People kill people, and often use faith to justify the act.

But here's where Islam losses my respect.

Islam has a PR problem in the west.

Why is it I have not once, ONCE, in the past 15 years seen anyone, let alone any organized Islamist group representing one of the major sects, attempt to educate anyone, let alone myself, on how these extremist individuals don't represent Islam? Why have I not SEEN Islam distancing itself.

Now I'm sure there have been press releases and such, but "me thinkith thou dost not protest enough, Islam".

To me it resembles the weak outrage you see from a guy who just had his car stolen, but in reality paid a guy to steal it for him, to get the insurance. "Aw, shucks, I got my car stolen last night, I am so angry, so angry I tell ya!"

I have to assume I haven't seen any such action from Islam, because they are making little to no effort to do so. Where is the sincere outrage from the formal Islamist community, where is the millions of dollars going in to tidy up their own house? I don't see it, and no, with such a huge issue, I shouldn't have to look far to find it. Islam has a responsibility to fix it's PR problem, so why aren't they?

This lack of effort speaks to me that at an organized level Islam condones these acts.

Where's the effort Islam. There's a cancer in your house; what are you doing about it. Absolutely any other organization would clear the table of everything and make this their only priority. You are not. Why?

Islam, should be knocking at my door like Jehovah Witnesses, begging for me to lend them my ear, to convince me they don't condone these acts, but do take responsibility for them, and are making a concerted effort to fix them.

I've been waiting 13 years, 10 months, and 6 days.

S

[Badger52]

Islam doesn't have a PR problem. Hollywood stharlots have a PR problem. Indicted politicians have a PR problem. What one may perceive as a PR problem is a refusal to dump a "convert or we'll kill you" ideology. And that's something I have a problem with, but not a PR kinda problem.

And you may not have been waiting long enough; they've been killing, kidnapping, torturing, and blowing up innocents (including alot of Americans) for many years before 11 Sep 2001.

[T-Rock]

This moral equivalency is getting old...

Concerning Christianity, where, in the New Testament, are Christians commanded to go forth and kill on Christ's behalf?

How can people justify the act if they're not operating within the tenets of their faith?

[JGC2]

Surely you jest.

The Crusades would be a good place to start researching the answers to these questions, IMO.

Are you really trying to draw an equivalency between Christianity from 1050 to 1290 and the rise of Islamic terrorism after 1979?

I may be wrong, but it seems as if you are ignoring the second and third caliphates that spawned the Crusades, which were territorial battles in the Middle Ages, in an attempt to highlight Christian aggression to justify an anti-faith argument aimed at the assumed beliefs of your target audience. By max land area, the Rashidun Caliphate was the second largest empire in history up to that point. The subsequent Umayyid Caliphate became the largest. As did the Abbasid after that.

A good place for you to start researching the answers to these questions would be the years 622 and 680, IMO.

[Toaster]

I wonder if there is some sort of pill I could take that would help me understand the thoughts of liberal apologists...

I believe that there are at least two pills that would help anyone of sound mind and good values understand liberals... FUKITOL being one of them, and Cyanide being the other.

[MR2]

Pink font. Only I get away without using pink font.

It should be renamed to Ryan Feral font.

[Bechorg]

Looks like they will push this, hopefully it will make it past the President's desk. :boohoo Not that many in our community need legal authorization to carry on post anyways....

WASHINGTON, DC — The US House passed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for 2016 on Friday, which includes an amendment that would allow military base commanders to authorize the concealed carry of firearms on military installations.

The amendment was written by U.S. Reps. Michael McCaul (R-Texas), John Carter (R-Texas) and Scott Rigell (R-Virginia).

AUSTIN, TX – Today, following passage of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for fiscal year 2016, which included an amendment offered by Congressman McCaul (R-TX), Congressman Carter (R-TX), and Congressman Rigell (R-VA) which grants authority to military base commanders to allow concealed carry of firearms on military installations, either for personal defense or as a force multiple, if they deem it necessary, Congressman Michael McCaul issued the following statement.

McCaul had the following to say after the House passed the bill Friday:

“Texas has twice mourned the loss of our soldiers and civilians after shootings at Fort Hood just north of my district. In 2009, Nidal Hassan walked into Fort Hood’s Soldier Readiness Center, shouted Allahu Akbar, and opened fire, killing 13 and wounding 42 others in the most horrific terrorist attack on U.S. soil since 9/11. Five years later, another shooter opened fire on the base, killing four and wounding 16 others . Enough is enough. We must give our base commanders more discretion and our soldiers more protection. Thousands of my constituents in Texas already exercise this right responsibly. It is time for our service members to be allowed to do the same.”

[JGC2]

I'll now have to demand my money back from the U of Illinois for history classes

There's an appropriate Good Will Hunting line out there somewhere. But, it's not so much the Battle of Karbala that is good reading as the resultant deep ethnic schism in Islam and the meteoric rise of Sunni dominance.

The faith a suicide bomber uses to justify his action, moreover, is the same kind used by the moderate churchgoer (/Templegoer/ Mosquegoer/ Gurdwaragoer/ etc.) to support their religious beliefs.

Did you get this talking point from Marie Harf? There is no similarity in kind between faiths of a suicide bomber and, by your own words, a "moderate" churchgoer. Raymond Ibrahim already explained this with an in-depth look at Bin Laden and Zawahiri's writings and how they exploit Quranic language and the hadiths to recruit, mobilize and justify non-Islamic acts in the name of jihad.

It is as much a cultural problem as a "faith" one, although to label the inherent dangers of radical Islam as akin to moderate Christianity is at best disingenuous and at worst an attempt to stoke some flames less than 24 hours after Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez murdered four Marines.

[Divemaster]

Surely you jest.

The Crusades would be a good place to start researching the answers to these questions, IMO.

I believe the medieval Christian extremist problem is well in hand. Anyone still working on that is encouraged to join us here in the 21st century where we have more pressing matters.

[T-Rock]

.
I am unconcerned with the religious beliefs of my audience in this instance. I am concerned with indicating that faith is used to justify odious acts. I would also be surprised if it didn't factor into Mr. Abdulazeez's actions.

No equivalencies drawn here; only a response to T-Rock's questions.

That's cool, but if one is truly concerned with those who use faith to justify odious acts, then one should also analyze what their varying faiths tell them to do...

Islam is unique among ALL other faiths in having a developed doctrine, theology, and legal system (Shariah), that mandates warfare against the Kafir.

[Box]

...simply citing the crusades is always an easy way for Islamo-facist apologists to indicate that they have no better argument for why violent islamists do what they do

Those men cut that guys head of!
-Oh yeah, well, uhm.............
WHAT ABOUT THE CRUSADES !?!?

That guy "honor killed" his daughter for dating a jew!
-Oh yeah, well, uhm.............
WHAT ABOUT THE CRUSADES !?!?

-Charlie Hebdo was because of the Crusades.
-Daniel Pearl was beheaded because of the crusades
-That guy shot up Chattanooga because of the Crusades


Got it.
Consider me indoctrinated.
Hopefully now that I am on board with the Crusades being the causative agent in all incidences of modern day radical islamic violence, maybe we can go looking for a new narrative - the crusades bit is really getting tired.

[T-Rock]

In addition to the four Marines, it appears Petty Officer Randall Smith has become the fifth victim of the Islamic Jihadist terror attack in Chattanooga. May they rest in peace. :(

[ddoering]

I don't understand why this attack wasn't thwarted. Our massive spy apparatus is watching all Americans after all.

[blacksmoke]

Like I said before, once the Western/Christian/American/Zionist aggression against the Ummah ends, the attacks will stop. It's up to U.S. Tell me where the Bible commands believers to kill non-believers, to this day, because of their faith, and I will start myself. :rolleyes: A Jewish tribal war 3000 years ago, or a shizerbag Pope don't equate to "tenets of the faith."

[Bechorg]

WASHINGTON — Security at military recruiting and reserve centers will be reviewed in the aftermath of the deadly shooting in Tennessee, but it's too early to say whether the facilities should have security guards YES, LETS PAY SOMEONE 20k A YEAR TO WATCH OVER TRAINED MARINESor other increased protection, the Army's top officer said Friday.

A day after a gunman shot and killed four Marines and wounded three other people in Chattanooga, Gen. Ray Odierno, chief of staff of the Army, told reporters that arming troops in those offices could cause more problems than it might solve. LIKE 5 MARINES BEING KILLED IN COLD BLOOD WISHING THEY HAD A WAY TO DEFEND THEMSELVES?

"I think we have to be careful about over-arming ourselves OVER ARMING OUTSELVES?! , and I'm not talking about where you end up attacking each other," Odierno said during a morning breakfast. Instead, he said, it's more about "accidental discharges and everything else that goes along with having weapons that are loaded that causes injuries." THEN MAYBE WORK ON A PLAN THAT INVOLVES ARMING THOSE WHO ARE TRAINED TO A HIGHER LEVEL THAN DAMN SWAT OFFICERS! TYPICAL ARMY LEADERSHIP TO CYA AND NOT TRUST THE MEN. GUY IS TOE TO LINE WITH THE ADMINISTRATION.

Tucked in strip malls in small rural communities and in high-traffic city spots like New York's Times Square, military recruiting and reserve stations are designed to be open and welcoming to the public. The troops inside aren't allowed to carry weapons. The ban is largely due to legal issues, such as laws that prohibit the federal government from using the military for domestic law enforcementITS NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT! IT IS SELF DEFENSE SIMILAR TO THAT OF A PEACE OFFICER!, so troops don't routinely carry guns when they are not in combat or on military bases.

"We're always going to be somewhat vulnerable to a lone wolf, or whatever you want to call it, a surprise shooter, because we are out there with the population and that's where we have to be," said Odierno. "We can't separate ourselves as we continue to recruit and interact with the population."BUT WE COULD ATTEMPT TO DEFEND OURSELVES BY BEING ARMED.


According to authorities, Kuwait-born Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez, 24, of Hixson, Tennessee, unleashed a barrage of fire at a recruiting center in Chattanooga, then drove several miles away to a Navy and Marine reserve center, where he shot and killed the Marines. He was shot to death by police.

Federal authorities said they are investigating the possibility it was an act of terrorism, but have no evidence yet that anyone but a lone gunman was involved.

In the wake of previous shootings at military facilities, the services have reviewed and strengthened security precautions at the centers. But most of those involve safety precautions and the need to be aware and watchful of surroundings.

Odierno said that there are currently no plans to have security personnel posted at recruiting centers, but added that there will be a review. He said a notice went out Thursday to all Army locations reminding them of protection measures.WHICH INCLUDE SHELTERING IN PLACE OR RUNNING IN NO WAY CONFRONTING THE THREAT.

WHEN WILL A LEADER STAND UP FOR HIS MEN WHEN BLOOD HAS BEEN SPILLED?

[Badger52]

YES, LETS PAY SOMEONE 20k A YEAR TO WATCH OVER TRAINED MARINESThat budget is already taken up guarding the local Social Security offices, HVT for propaganda value that they are.
:rolleyes:

Aside: I recall a period (OIF/OEF mob-station deployment prep) during which LTG Honore had 1A dicta called "immersion training." The net was that weapons went with the Soldier everywhere, period. Activities on post were brought on board, I briefed my folks as to why there were now clearing barrels outside and, in a very short time, everyone was cool with it. (To the point that one of my network techs one day asked a Soldier where their weapon was...) There were some initial screw-ups, vigorous "mentoring" by NCOs (this is NCO stuff anyway) and the result was that proper weapons handling became muscle-memory. Regardless of what one may think of the "Ragin' Cajun'" it worked. So GEN Odierno you can pound sand.

[Joker]

Odinero is a pussy. Hey fuck stick odinero fire your PSD and you put some target on your fat pussy ass and then we will see what you say and how long you will last.

[Axe]

TX Governor has authorized arming of TXNG members.

It's nice to know that common sense does exist in isolated instances...

http://news.yahoo.com/latest-sailor-dies-being-wounded-shooting-125536955.html

[TOMAHAWK9521]

Surely you jest.

The Crusades would be a good place to start researching the answers to these questions, IMO.

I always thought the crusades were the push back from the multitude of invasions/incursions by the muslim hordes. I mean, if we are going to allow the muslims to claim all this is retaliation for the crusades, then we can point out that the crusades were retaliation for Islam's invasion and enslavement of half of Europe.

In short, "You f*ckers started it first!"

[SF_BHT]

I always thought the crusades were the push back from the multitude of invasions/incursions by the muslim hordes. I mean, if we are going to allow the muslims to claim all this is retaliation for the crusades, then we can point out that the crusades were retaliation for Islam's invasion and enslavement of half of Europe.

In short, "You f*ckers started it first!"

Quit trying to talk sense or we will have to banish you ....:eek::p

[TOMAHAWK9521]

A thousand pardons, my liege. I shall refer back to the popular talking points. :D

[doctom54]

TX Governor has authorized arming of TXNG members.

It's nice to know that common sense does exist in isolated instances...

http://news.yahoo.com/latest-sailor-dies-being-wounded-shooting-125536955.html

It looks like several Governors are showing some leadership

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/chattanooga-shooting/governors-order-national-guardsmen-be-armed-after-chattenooga-attack-n394476

[Badger52]

It looks like several Governors are showing some leadership

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/chattanooga-shooting/governors-order-national-guardsmen-be-armed-after-chattenooga-attack-n394476

Army Chief of Staff Gen. Raymond T. Odierno said Friday that security at recruitment and training centers will be reviewed, but added that recruiters aren't armed because of the Posse Comitatus Act...He's worried about appearances & appeasement. Has nothing to do with the Posse Commitatus & he knows it.

[NurseTim]

Hey, at least POTUS offered an "Eid Mubarak" AFTER the Chattanooga shooting...

Really? Fucking A really? How is it that few realize the potus is a muzzie? Because he says he isn't? Aren't muzzies allowed to lie if it furthers the muzzie cause? Sweet sister Sadie!

[Mustang Man]

Really? Fucking A really? How is it that few realize the potus is a muzzie? Because he says he isn't? Aren't muzzies allowed to lie if it furthers the muzzie cause? Sweet sister Sadie!

Yeah it's called Taqiyya, encouraged by via Quran of course.

Qur'an (40:28)*- A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must*"hide his faith"*among those who are not believers

[Team Sergeant]

He's worried about appearances & appeasement. Has nothing to do with the Posse Commitatus & he knows it.

You are 100% right.

And Army Chief of Staff Gen. Raymond T. Odierno is also an idiot....;)

[Tree Potato]

Looks like they will push this, hopefully it will make it past the President's desk. :boohoo Not that many in our community need legal authorization to carry on post anyways....

WASHINGTON, DC — The US House passed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for 2016 on Friday, which includes an amendment that would allow military base commanders to authorize the concealed carry of firearms on military installations.

The amendment was written by U.S. Reps. Michael McCaul (R-Texas), John Carter (R-Texas) and Scott Rigell (R-Virginia).

AUSTIN, TX – Today, following passage of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for fiscal year 2016, which included an amendment offered by Congressman McCaul (R-TX), Congressman Carter (R-TX), and Congressman Rigell (R-VA) which grants authority to military base commanders to allow concealed carry of firearms on military installations, either for personal defense or as a force multiple, if they deem it necessary, Congressman Michael McCaul issued the following statement.


Here's a link to the amendment:
http://amendments-rules.house.gov/amendments/CARTER_013513151237413741.pdf

1 SEC. 5ll. ESTABLISHMENT OF PROCESS BY WHICH MEM-
2 BERS OF THE ARMED FORCES MAY CARRY A
3 CONCEALED PERSONAL FIREARM ON A MILI-
4 TARY INSTALLATION.
5 (a) PROCESS REQUIRED.—The Secretary of Defense,
6 taking into consideration the views of senior leadership of
7 military installations in the United States, shall establish
8 a process by which the commander of a military installa-
9 tion in the United States may authorize a member of the
10 Armed Forces who is assigned to duty at the installation
11 to carry a concealed personal firearm on the installation
12 if the commander determines it to be necessary as a
13 personal- or force-protection measure.

etc.

[Badger52]

Here's a link to the amendment:
http://amendments-rules.house.gov/amendments/CARTER_013513151237413741.pdfNo dice; doesn't go far enough. Typical wording of a knee-jerk amendment (although I empathize completely with the sentiment) which, like the LEOSA, creates a different 'class' of people.

Should be amended such that:

a) Civilians who work there, who already hold a permit, can do the same. There are many Army bases whose military population is largely transient/seasonal and DAC's outnumber Soldiers by a huge margin.
b) Just make it permanent. A local GC has the discretion to go under a given force protection state, but not over it. Overall force protection status is set at a higher level. (May help negate the wimp GC effect.)
c) And no, you statist fools, a DAC who carries does not abrogate their personal rights and submit to inventory/registration of their personally-owned weapons.

One final nit: Any new Corps of Engrs design/construction of an office building will have useable window exits in the inside gerbil cages and inside deadbolts on all interior offices so that your stupid cower-in-place strategy for the (now) channelized targets has a chance of working. Absence of same is grounds for non-occupancy, funding source immaterial. "What? You have to do blast-resistant windows you say...?" You're engineers, work it out children.

Ahem. Still, his heart's in the right place.

[Tree Potato]

No dice; doesn't go far enough. Typical wording of a knee-jerk amendment (although I empathize completely with the sentiment) which, like the LEOSA, creates a different 'class' of people.

...

One final nit: Any new Corps of Engrs design/construction of an office building will have useable window exits in the inside gerbil cages and inside deadbolts on all interior offices so that your stupid cower-in-place strategy for the (now) channelized targets has a chance of working. Absence of same is grounds for non-occupancy, funding source immaterial. "What? You have to do blast-resistant windows you say...?" You're engineers, work it out children.

Ahem. Still, his heart's in the right place.

Concur. Sadly, I doubt even this watered down version will get through the process and into the final NDAA.

Interesting side note...at our Child Development Center inspection outbrief the team relayed we'll get a new CDC, with design funds in 2016 and MILCON in 2017. The team (AF) is specifically not using USACE for design or construction, and they plan to include one or more internal safe rooms. We're eager to see the design, and if needed I'll divert some funds to upscale the room design which may need improvement as this is their first attempt at safe rooms for kids/infants/staff.

[Badger52]

Concur. Sadly, I doubt even this watered down version will get through the process and into the final NDAA.

Interesting side note...at our Child Development Center inspection outbrief the team relayed we'll get a new CDC, with design funds in 2016 and MILCON in 2017. The team (AF) is specifically not using USACE for design or construction, and they plan to include one or more internal safe rooms. We're eager to see the design, and if needed I'll divert some funds to upscale the room design which may need improvement as this is their first attempt at safe rooms for kids/infants/staff.Good. Hang onto that with teeth from a Gila lizard; give up the landscaping or 1st year lawn care.

[Hand]

A Navy officer and a Marine fired their sidearms hoping to kill or subdue the gunman who murdered five service members last week in Chattanooga, Tennessee, according to multiple military officials familiar with internal reporting on the tragedy.

It remains unclear whether either hit Muhammad Abdulazeez, who was shot and killed on July 16 after he gunned down four Marines and a sailor at the Navy Operational Support Center in Chattanooga. It's also unclear why they were armed, as it is against Defense Department policy for anyone other than military police or law enforcement to carry weapons on federal property.

A report distributed among senior Navy leaders during the shooting's aftermath said Lt. Cmdr. Timothy White, the support center's commanding officer, used his personal firearm to engage Abdulazeez, Navy Times confirmed with four separate sources. A Navy official also confirmed a Washington Post report indicating one of the slain Marines may have been carrying a 9mm Glock and possibly returned fire on the gunman.

The various law enforcement agencies investigating the Chattanooga shooting declined to comment. A source close to the investigation said details of the rampage's last few minutes remain unclear, but no information has emerged to contradict the Navy's internal findings.

Authorities will not know whether White or the Marine hit Abdulazeez until an autopsy and ballistics assessment are performed.
Source (http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2015/07/21/sources-navy-officer-marine-shot-chattanooga-gunman/30426817/)


I hope this is true.

[The Reaper]

I hope this is true.

I concur.

Better to go down fighting than slaughtered like a sheep.

I really hope the military guys are the ones who put him down.

If two servicemembers actually had handguns available to them in the office, that is good news. I suspect that will shock some people in the Chain of Command.

TR

[abc_123]

Since suppressing the fact that there were military that were armed (aginst the rules) is no longer possible, I wonder if the real truth on what the armed good guys did and the effect that they had ever be made public?

Will that Navy Officer be prosecuted under the UCMJ?

[Badger52]

Army to recruiters: Treat armed citizens as security threat


WASHINGTON — The Army has warned its recruiters to treat the gun-toting civilians gathering at centers across the country in the wake of the Chattanooga, Tenn., shooting as a security threat.

Soldiers should avoid anyone standing outside the recruiting centers attempting to offer protection and report them to local law enforcement and the command if they feel threatened, according to a U.S. Army Recruiting Command policy letter issued Monday.

Armed citizens — some associated with activist groups and militias — were standing vigil outside recruiting centers in Wisconsin, Georgia, Tennessee, Idaho and elsewhere this week, saying they want to provide protection to servicemembers barred from carrying firearms on duty. Four Marines and a sailor were killed by Mohammad Youssef Abdulazeez, a 24-year-old Kuwait-born resident of Tennessee, during an attack Thursday on a strip mall recruiting center and a Navy facility that is being investigated as an act of terrorism.

Abdulazeez fired into the front of the recruiting station but there were no casualties. The five servicemembers were killed during an attack on the Navy Operational Support Center. A Navy officer and a Marine reportedly fired at the gunman, although it is unclear why they were armed. It is against Defense Department policy for anyone other than military police or law enforcement to carry weapons on federal property.

“I’m sure the citizens mean well, but we cannot assume this in every case and we do not want to advocate this behavior,” according to the Army Command Operations Center-Security Division letter, which was authenticated by the service.

Recruiters were ordered not to interact or acknowledge the armed civilians, who have been greeted by a mix of concern, indifference and gratitude by the public.

“If questioned by these alleged concerned citizens, be polite, professional and terminate the conversation immediately and report the incident to local law enforcement …,” the command advised.

As the incidents crop up around the country, police could be asked to confront the civilians with guns on the Army’s behalf.

“Ensure your recruiters clearly articulate to local police the civilian may be armed and in possession of a conceal/carry permit,” it told the centers.

The command said recruiters should also immediately fill out an Army security report.

Kelli Bland, a spokeswoman for Army Recruiting Command, said the service has been increasing vigilance following the Chattanooga shooting and that local residents can help in other ways.

“Local communities can support our security by reporting suspicious activity, particularly around recruiting centers,” Bland wrote in an email to Stars and Stripes.

Concerned citizens began gathering at the centers shortly after the shooting in Tennessee, and governors in some states ordered recruiters to armories or to be armed for protection against potential terrorist attacks. Congress has also pushed for the Defense Department to lift its current policy.

The founder and president of Oath Keepers, a Constitution activist group based in Las Vegas, issued a national call Tuesday to guard centers, while members were already guarding centers in Tennessee, Arkansas and Oklahoma, president Stewart Rhodes told the Associated Press.

Rhodes told the news service it’s “absolutely insane” that recruiters aren’t allowed to be armed.

“They’re sitting ducks,” Rhodes said Tuesday. “They’d be better off if they were walking down the streets of Baghdad, because at least in Baghdad, they could move. Here, they’re stationary.”

In Lewiston, Idaho, three men with a group known as “3 percenters” — a national alliance with members who prepare “for any situation, man-made or natural” — were standing watch outside a recruiting office this week, the TNS wire service reported.

“They supported us, and now we’re here showing them that we support them,” said Matt Dillard, of Clarkston, Idaho, who was among the men.
Full Stars & Stripes online link. (http://www.stripes.com/news/us/army-to-recruiters-treat-armed-citizens-as-security-threat-1.359134)

[abc_123]

Genius. Pure genius.
:rolleyes:

[craigepo]

How, after this many years of combat, are there this many douchebag officers still in the ranks? Shouldn't they have all stabbed themselves in the eye with MRE spoons by now?

[Badger52]

They went to NORTHCOM. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=opZnbLVjgzk#t=0)

[Razor]

Yeah, nice cherry pick there, Sweetcheeks. :rolleyes:

[frostfire]

How, after this many years of combat, are there this many douchebag officers still in the ranks? Shouldn't they have all stabbed themselves in the eye with MRE spoons by now?

Not surprising...or at least I was surprised when CPT and MAJ, SOF and conventional, who I gladly follow to hell and back and I thought would make GO one day, were making their exits. Guess who's left to run the army...

[pyreaux]

Saw the beginnings of folks lining the road for the funeral in Chattanooga today, strange feeling seeing that and getting the news of the Lafayette shooting in the same day.

[RCummings]

Quote from Allen B West,

Source: http://allenbwest.com/2015/08/whats-happening-to-this-heroic-navy-officer-from-the-chattanooga-shooting-will-make-your-blood-boil/

I never like to be reactionary and follow anything that may just be hyperbole or conspiracy theory. That’s why I held off on addressing this issue until I got confirmation — which came Friday afternoon via text message.

There are things which make you just upset, like the liberal progressive left and media accomplices’ rage over the shooting of a lion in Africa but abject disregard and disdain reference Planned Parenthood dismembering babies and selling their body parts.

But this story has me dog fighting mad and seriously pissed off.

As reported ten days ago by Western Journalism, “A Navy officer and Marine reportedly returned fire at the shooter who killed five service members in Chattanooga, Tenn., even though current policy does not permit military members to carry firearms on facilities such as those where the attack occurred.

The cold-blooded assault killed four Marines and one active-duty Navy reservist. The center’s commanding officer, Lt. Cmdr. Timothy White, used his personal firearm to engage the shooter during the attack, according to sources quoted in the Navy Times. A report from The Washington Post said that one of the Marines killed in the shooting might have been carrying a 9 mm Glock and possibly returned fire on the shooter.

At the time, Western Journalism wrote, Lt. Cmdr. White could face disciplinary action for violating policy about possessing a weapon on the facility that was supposedly a gun-free zone. The investigation into the attack is ongoing, and authorities will not know if White or the Marine hit the shooter until an autopsy and a ballistics report have been completed.

Ladies and gents, resulting from the text message I received yesterday, I can confirm that the United States Navy is bringing charges against Lt. Cmdr Timothy White for illegally discharging a firearm on federal property.

The text message asked if it would be possible for Lt.Cmdr White to reach out to me. To wit I replied, affirmative.

What kind of freaking idiots are in charge of our Armed Forces — pardon me, our “unArmed Forces”? What would they prefer that Abdulazeez had been able to kill all the Marines and Sailors at the Naval Support Reserve Center? Let me draw an interesting contrast: Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus is more concerned about lifting the ban on transgendered Sailors. Mabus has a problem in that for the first time since 2007 the US Navy will not have a Carrier Battle Group operating in the Persian Gulf. But this knucklehead has no problem with the Navy seeking to destroy the career of a Sailor, a commander of an installation, returning fire against an Islamic jihadist attack. I do not care if it was his personal weapon, he deserves a medal for facing the enemy.

Folks, this has become the Obama military that will not implement policies for our men and women in uniform to be protected — but will punish them if they do protect themselves. What ever happened to the Navy of John Paul Jones, Farragut, Halsey, and Nimitz? What has happened in our America where we believe that our men and women in uniform — especially the commanders — are just targets for these damn Islamic jihadists?

Can you imagine the message this sends to ISIS and all the enemies of America? We are going to end his career and court-martial a man who drew his sidearm to protect his command, and the assigned Sailors and Marines.

What is the difference between Lt. Cmdr White and the reserve officer in Moore, Oklahoma who went to his vehicle and armed himself to prevent a second woman from being beheaded? Is it that we expect less from our uniformed warriors? Are they just supposed to sit and be butchered, gunned down, until local law enforcement come along? Let’s be very clear here, I can attest that there are many reserve and National Guard troops who are carrying concealed during their drill periods…why? Because they are lions, not sheep, like the imbeciles who are making the decision to punish Lt. Cmdr White.

Doggone, what does it take? Here we have a known deserte,r Bowe Bergdahl, out getting picked up smoking marijuana, or at a house growing marijuana. According to Susan Rice, he served with honor and distinction. The real men of honor such as Army 1LT Clint Lorance, and now it seems Lt. Cmdr White, are forced into jail.

Ponder this, Obama will pardon drug dealers, but men who fight the enemy are imprisoned? Now, can someone, any one of you inane characterless liberal progressive trolls explain that to me? Explain it to us that you would rather have had more Sailors and Marines die than for this Navy Commander to draw his personal weapon in defense of his command. That’s what the Naval Support Center was for Lt. Cmdr White — his responsibility to defend, protect.

Here we have a president and secretary of state sitting down with a sworn enemy in Iran who holds four Americans hostage, and we’re going to bring charges against an American Naval Commander who returned fire against the enemy.

This is indeed FUBAR!

Here’s what needs to happen. Flood the phone of SecNav Ray Mabus and SecDef Carter and ask them whose side they’re. Demand the charges being brought against Lt.Cmdr White be immediately dropped. If those charges are not dropped, I will personally lead the charge to have Carter and Mabus removed from their positions.

America, this cannot be tolerated and must not be allowed to stand. I guess the life of an African lion means more to these liberal progressives than one of our brave Sailors. It is beyond belief that the Navy would embark upon this folly — they could simply issue a “local letter of reprimand” that would not enter into Lt. Cmdr White’s permanent personnel file — then immediately pin a medal upon his chest and fast track him for promotion to Commander.

White exemplifies the highest and finest of character and tradition of the US Navy. Those who would bring charges against him are indeed cowards and need be exposed.

Lieutenant Commander Timothy White, I await your call, and I will not rest until these charges against you have been dropped. You stay strong. You showed that you are Steadfast and Loyal. And we will not allow you to be abandoned to the perfumed princes of the Pentagon…and the White House. America shall rally to your cause!

This is just another in the long line of reasons why we must NEVER allow a progressive socialist to be commander-in-chief.

[JJ_BPK]

Erik Holder and Fast & Furious,, all over again.. :mad:

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=589339&postcount=18

[Streck-Fu]

Ladies and gents, resulting from the text message I received yesterday, I can confirm that the United States Navy is bringing charges against Lt. Cmdr Timothy White for illegally discharging a firearm on federal property.


So far, no actual charges pending and the Navy is denouncing this as false....

[Team Sergeant]

So far, no actual charges pending and the Navy is denouncing this as false....

It is huh.... let me know if you need help with the big words....:munchin



Navy official: Not ruling out charging service member who fired on Chattanooga shooter
Published August 03, 2015
·FoxNews.com

A Navy official told Fox News that punishing a lieutenant commander who used an unauthorized weapon to fire back at the Chattanooga gunman who shot and killed five service members could not be “completely ruled out,” and two high-profile former military officers, including presidential candidate Jim Webb, say the Navy is at least seriously considering charging the man.

The Navy said in a statement that it had not charged any service members with an offense at the present time.

“Stories of Navy personnel being charged with an offense are not true,” the statement said. “There is still a long way to go in reviewing the facts of this tragic incident, but at this time we can confirm no service member has been charged with an offense.”

Military personnel are not allowed to carry weapons inside military recruiting and reserve stations. That ban is now facing scrutiny following the July 16 rampage by an Islamic extremist that killed five military members in Tennessee.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/03/navy-official-not-ruling-out-charging-service-member-who-fired-on-chattanooga/?intcmp=hpbt3

[Badger52]

“There is still a long way to go in reviewing the facts of this tragic incident, but at this time we can confirm no service member has been charged with an offense.”
Translation: "We're sticking our finger up in the air to gauge opinion, and when we get told what to think we'll let you know. Maybe."

[Richard]

Navy Lt. Cmdr. Tim White has not been charged for firing his personal weapon at a lone gunman during the July 16 attacks on two military sites in Chattanooga, according to the Navy, despite weekend rumors that White had been charged for his actions.

White confirmed to the Times Free Press last week that he did open fire with a personal weapon on Mohammad Youssef Abdulazeez as the 24-year-old Hixson man attacked the U.S. Naval and Marine Reserve Center on Amnicola Highway.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2015/aug/03/navy-officer-has-not-been-charged-firing-personal-weapon-chattanooga-gunman/317947/

Richard

[frostfire]

Since 9/11 I've been saying arm everyone in uniform. We're one of the only countries that doesn't arm our guys at home, and it f**king costing us!

I am surprised it took this long. It doesn't take much for any wannabe or seasoned jihadi to look at what Aimal Kasi did at Langley in 1993 and copy his simple TTP

[Old Dog New Trick]

Richard

And will not be charged!!!

http://www.stripes.com/source-no-charges-against-navy-officer-for-weapons-violations-in-chattanooga-attack-1.361644

WASHINGTON — Lt. Cmdr. Tim White, the Navy officer who fired a sidearm in defense during the attack on Navy Operational Support Center in Chattanooga, Tenn., will not face charges, an official familiar with the investigation told Stars and Stripes on Wednesday.

[ddoering]

I bet he never gets another promotion.

[Tree Potato]

I bet he never gets another promotion.

He gets to continue respecting the man in the mirror. Those who considered charging him lost that ability, probably long ago.

His future civilian job prospects are also limited now, but he might not have wanted to work at any company that would filter him out because of this. Sadly, that choice will not necessarily be his.

[RCummings]

Navy Lt. Cmdr. Tim White, should have no regrets.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

[Mills]

Has anyone heard anything more about this?

Seems like the Charleston shooting was dubbed "terrorism" immediately. However we have heard nothing about this in several weeks.

Almost like it was swept under the rug.

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