Shelby church to fly Christian flag over American flag

[Team Sergeant]

2015 the year of the "flag"...... let's just ramp up the stupid factor.....




Shelby church to fly Christian flag over American flag
Posted: Jul 03, 2015 7:09 PM
Updated: Jul 03, 2015 7:35 PM
By Sarah-Blake Morgan


SHELBY, NC (WBTV) -
In Cleveland County, Old Glory flies high. From shops, to homes, to houses of worship - the red, white and blue can be spotted on every street corner.

But this Fourth of July weekend, one Shelby flag pole will be reassessing its priorities. On Sunday, Pastor Rit Varriale will raise the Christian flag above the American flag in front of Elizabeth Baptist Church.

"Our typical flag etiquette is to have the American flag above the Christian flag. But when you stop and think about it, it should be our commitment to God first, then our commitment to country," Varriale said.

The controversial move is one that Varriale noticed his fellow pastor, Walter Wilson, doing down the road a few months ago at Focus Missionary Baptist Church.

"As I was changing the rope one day, the Lord just laid on me that he is first and when he told me that, I switched the flags around," Wilson said.

Now, the two pastors are hoping to spark a movement across the country in light of the United States Supreme Courts recent ruling on same-sex marriage.

Varriale tells WBTV he believes Christians need to stand up just as the LGBT community has been doing recently.

"The reality is, they have been willing to sacrifice more and be more bold for their cause than the church of Jesus Christ for serving God, and that's got to change," Varriale said.

The decision is getting push-back online from some saying the move is disrespectful and unpatriotic. But this former Army Ranger says the move isn't about not loving his country.



cont:
http://www.wbtv.com/story/29472787/shelby-church-to-fly-christian-flag-over-american-flag

[MR2]

"Title 4, U.S. Code § 7 - Position and manner of display

If the government is not going to follow it's own laws, let alone the Constitution... well then to Hell with them!

:munchin

[Richard]

This pretty much says it all.

"As I was changing the rope one day, the Lord just laid on me that he is first and when he told me that, I switched the flags around," Wilson said.

You do not reason a man out of something he was not reasoned into.

Richard

[Team Sergeant]

This pretty much says it all.

"As I was changing the rope one day, the Lord just laid on me that he is first and when he told me that, I switched the flags around," Wilson said.

You do not reason a man out of something he was not reasoned into.

Richard

Luckily (for some) I don't use the same reasoning when loading my guns...... :munchin

[Trapper John]

This pretty much says it all.

"As I was changing the rope one day, the Lord just laid on me that he is first and when he told me that, I switched the flags around," Wilson said.

You do not reason a man out of something he was not reasoned into.

Richard

Now I understand my Momma's admonition: "Son, never argue with drunks, fools, crazy people, or zealots of any kind." :D

[miclo18d]

"...One nation UNDER God..."


:munchin

[Barbarian]

I tend to think that a man's life and actions should be what represents his faith, whatever it might be; not that I'm always the best example.

[VVVV]

"...One nation UNDER God..."


:munchin

That wasn't there when I first learned the pledge!

[GratefulCitizen]

"Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."
Matthew 22:21(b)

The nation has a flag.
Wasn't aware that the Almighty had one.

[miclo18d]

That wasn't there when I first learned the pledge!

Not to mention that the original was written by a socialist, hence my munch man. (Sometime I like to stir the pot)

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country.

In its original form it read:

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1923, the words, "the Flag of the United States of America" were added. At this time it read:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words "under God," creating the 31-word pledge we say today. Bellamy's daughter objected to this alteration. Today it reads:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Section 4 of the Flag Code states:

The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.", should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute."

The original Bellamy salute, first described in 1892 by Francis Bellamy, who authored the original Pledge, began with a military salute, and after reciting the words "to the flag," the arm was extended toward the flag.

At a signal from the Principal the pupils, in ordered ranks, hands to the side, face the Flag. Another signal is given; every pupil gives the flag the military salute — right hand lifted, palm downward, to a line with the forehead and close to it. Standing thus, all repeat together, slowly, "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all." At the words, "to my Flag," the right hand is extended gracefully, palm upward, toward the Flag, and remains in this gesture till the end of the affirmation; whereupon all hands immediately drop to the side.

The Youth's Companion, 1892

Shortly thereafter, the pledge was begun with the right hand over the heart, and after reciting "to the Flag," the arm was extended toward the Flag, palm-down.

In World War II, the salute too much resembled the Nazi salute, so it was changed to keep the right hand over the heart throughout

I do agree that God has no flag, but I know several churches do; I am not loyal to a church but to God.

My hierarchy of loyalty...
God
Family
Country
Special Forces brothers
Pets
Friends
State
Community

My flags include:
U.S. Flag
Florida State flag
Pineland flag

I may get a lightning flag if they would bring home the Stanley Cup! :mad:

[craigepo]

Evil Christian bastards. How dare they try to make a point without having a riot or calling Al Sharpton? Where's the beheadings? Not even one rainbow parade? No direct government funding like La Raza?!?! Evil! Evil Christians, I say. It was probably them that put that Ten Commandments deal in the Supreme Court. Thou shalt not murder? Pshaw.

Next thing you know, they will be praying for people that don't like them, or spewing more of that vile "Sermon on the Mount" bunk. Or setting up some charity hospital. Or feeding poor people.

What grotesque, unreasoning filth. The Big Bang theory serves us so much better.

[Richard]

Flying a denominational (theological corporate) flag like that church plans to do above the national colors has less to do with any god and more to do with the business of religion, which, in this instance and in my opinion, is tantamount to little but monkey business.

The blue field and stars of the US flag represent several things, one being the "heavens" of what our so-called Founders made reference to when they spoke of "...the laws of Nature and of Nature's God..." in the Declaration of Independence.

I see lots of denominational flags being flown with the US flag - but they fly correctly, in my opinion, on a separate pole of equal height, and neither above nor below the national colors.

What's next - a claim that our government officials are to be seen as members of the 'elect' (IAW Puritanical doctrine) or our democratically constituted federal republican governemnt governs by 'divine right' as opposed to the will of the people it represents? :confused:

Richard

[craigepo]

Believing that a god exists is one thing, but doing nice things in the service of him (Her? It?) doesn't make the existence of that god any more true.

This makes the Pastor's rationale of "the Lord just laid on me" and "when he told me" that much more shaky.


If the message were sent by text or the pastor is telepathic, though, I have no ground to stand on here.

Not the point I was trying to make.

Thoughts become rules. Rules don't exist in a vacuum. When you are for or against a set of rules/beliefs, you must have in view an end state. If you are an atheist, that's well and good. But you must have an idea of where the idea leads. Is there an atheistic set of rules, or would it just logically lead to anarchy? And are today's atheists just borrowing ethics from previously established belief system that were in whole or in part taken from one or more religions?

[Richard]

And so it goes... ;)

Richard

[SF-TX]

...Thoughts become rules. Rules don't exist in a vacuum. When you are for or against a set of rules/beliefs, you must have in view an end state. If you are an atheist, that's well and good. But you must have an idea of where the idea leads. Is there an atheistic set of rules, or would it just logically lead to anarchy? And are today's atheists just borrowing ethics from previously established belief system that were in whole or in part taken from one or more religions?

I agree with what John Adams said on the subject:

Statesmen my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand....The only foundation of a free Constitution, is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People, in a great Measure, than they have it now, They may change their Rulers, and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting Liberty. - John Adams, letter to Zabdiel Adams — 1776

Public virtue cannot exist in a nation without private, and public virtue is the only foundation of republics. There must be a positive passion for the public good, the public interest, honour, power and glory, established in the minds of the people, or there can be no republican government, nor any real liberty: and this public passion must be superiour to all private passions. - John Adams, letter to Mercy Warren — 1776

[R]eligion and virtue are the only foundations, not of republicanism and of all free government, but of social felicity under all government and in all the combinations of human society. - John Adams, letter in response to Rush letter — 1811

We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. - John Adams, Address to the Military — 1798

Source (http://patriotpost.us/quotes?commit=Search&page=2&q[name_cont]=John+Adams&t=&utf8=%E2%9C%93)

[sinjefe]

And are today's atheists just borrowing ethics from previously established belief system that were in whole or in part taken from one or more religions?

Probably more like this. It's convenient that they have been shaped by a Judeo-Christian philosophy (at least here). My daughter is one and she cannot come up with a logical reason for why we don't murder, rape and steal in the absence of moral values passed down from religion. She believes that societies just collectively "decide" not to do that stuff but could just as easily decide that it is okay. But she can't say where she gets that viewpoint from.

[sinjefe]

My point is simply that atheists conveniently say that the only reason we are all not out rampaging, stealing, killing and raping is because society says so. If society wanted to say differently, it could (their argument).

I think that is a convenient argument to make when those stating it benefit from having been shaped by values stemming from Judeo-Christian philosophy.

I could be mis-interpreting, but I think that is what craigepo meant.

I happen to agree with it, though I am not a Christian myself.

[craigepo]

So, a belief system handed down by a god (which one?) is the only thing standing between society and repulsive behavior.

Hunh.

What's wrong with not yet being able to say in a complete manner from where we get our sense of morals? We don't yet completely understand quantum mechanics, for example, but it makes little sense to fill the knowledge void with "That's how God wants it."

If I might try to inartfully make another point or two.

1. I can find no belief system, buddhist, hindu, marxist, muslim, etc, that would give rise to the Ameican (or Western) civillization, other than that found in Judeo-Christianity.

2. With my assumption in #1, is it disingenuous to denigrate a bunch of Jews/Christians while enjoying liberties that only a belief system such as theirs would ultimately provide/mandate?

[Richard]

I can find no belief system, buddhist, hindu, marxist, muslim, etc, that would give rise to the Ameican (or Western) civillization, other than that found in Judeo-Christianity.

How about the Enlightenment and its deist beliefs which profoundly affected the Founders? :confused:

I find it rather myopic to omit the extensive political, economic, social, intellectual, cultural, and military aspects of History which, along with the lengthy travails of religious transformation, led to the development of modern Western Civilization as we know it today.

Richard

[craigepo]

How about the Enlightenment and its deist beliefs which profoundly affected the Founders? :confused:

I find it rather myopic to omit the extensive political, economic, social, intellectual, cultural, and military aspects of History which, along with the lengthy travails of religious transformation, led to the development of modern Western Civilization as we know it today.

Richard

Which "deist" beliefs differ markedly from Judeo-Christian? Which "deist" beliefs were in existence prior to, let's say 400 A.D.?

Which specific political, economic, social, intellectual, cultural, and military aspect(s) do you ascribe to our development? Does said aspect wholly negate the impact of Judeo-Christian thought and morality upon our Western culture? Please illustrate how this aspect has manifested itself in a non-Western culture to improve personal liberty to a point where we would be better off living "there" than here.

[miclo18d]

A convenient argument to make in a society where the Judeo-Christian environment is all but inescapable.


We now have good evolutionary reasons for individuals to behave in a moral way toward each other. Humans in prehistory also lived under conditions that would have favored the development of these behaviors and the genetic tendency toward them.

Aside from that, I don't think anyone here would disagree that the source of moral precepts should be defensible by reason. Behaving in a moral way because a hypothetical supernatural power ordained it and bestowed this guidance to us is defensible by faith alone.

The same faith that motivated Pastor Varriale to post his religion's flag above the flag of the U.S.
The same faith that inspired President Bush to take on terrorism, ¿que no?

I'm hoping you never voted for him.:confused:

[Richard]

Inre post #25 - I guess I don't entirely understand your position or point of view as it seems you fail to grasp mine...however, in this regard, I do agree Judeo-Christianity did impact the development of both Western Civilization and the idea of 'America' - the First Amendment to the Constitution makes that patently clear.

Richard