MARSOC [Archive] - Professional Soldiers ®

Beef

06-19-2015, 19:18

Yeah, this has been discussed for a while, as the article points out. While I do really appreciate the lineage/history angle, the new name doesn't reflect the complete mission statement and purpose of MARSOC. As TR said, it'll be hard to sell a host country a unit with that name for those missions. Unfortunately, it's largely a PR move using a new name "that jumps off the page." A very honored and revered name, but not quietly professional.

Flagg

06-19-2015, 20:00

Presley O'Bannon, Peter Ortiz, William Eddy, and CAP Marines were all unconventional or less conventional Marines who all were not Marine Raiders.

To me it seems like a a cool but "square" sounding name in service history/legacy that is being smashed into a less conventional and proximate "round" hole.

Golf1echo

06-19-2015, 21:27

Team Sergeant

06-20-2015, 00:01

The " Skull lives" interesting lineage, not so different from the Rangers historical connection, I did not know the Raider story.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/news/2014/08/06/marsoc-units-renamed-for-the-marine-raiders/13669447/
The Southern Cross on their patch tells a story in itself.

That first photo has digital equipment in it. I was not aware that the marines had anyone with an IQ high enough to support that type of equipment? ;)

When I first applied to the military I had half a mind to become a marine, and the recruiter said that's all I needed!

JJ_BPK

06-20-2015, 05:05

Unfortunately,
it's largely a PR move using a new name "that jumps off the page."

A very honored and revered name,
but NOT quietly professional.

Exactly.. :munchin

Golf1echo

06-20-2015, 05:33

That first photo has digital equipment in it. I was not aware that the marines had anyone with an IQ high enough to support that type of equipment? ;)

When I first applied to the military I had half a mind to become a marine, and the recruiter said that's all I needed!

Ah yes the the Marine mystique. Some of their guys were very good to us. They wanted simple and very light minimalist pieces, I got the impression they were very busy and productive.

Richard

06-20-2015, 07:18

I always equated the Raider units to being more like the Force Recon Bns and always wondered why they didn't name the FRBs "Raider Bns".

When it comes to heritage and SSI, it can be a tricky maze to walk through amongst the commands and the heraldry ffolkes. For example, in the 4th Abn Tng Bn and 1-507th PIR, we wore the USAIS SSI 'officially' but wore the historical link to the original Airborne School in the form of their Airborne Command SSI as a unit 'badge' on our training uniform (PT shorts and wind breakers). We tried to get it as our SSI, but the 'pushback' was strong from the commands (USAIS and TRADOC) and eventually wound up wearing the 199th Light Inf Bde SSI for a number of years (which royally pissed off the airborne community because the 199th LIB had no connection to its legacy) until returning to the USAIS SSI being worn today.

I wonder if the USMC will ever go to a FWS SSI enamel badge to wear on their dress uniforms like the ones the Army now wears on theirs.

Richard

Beef

06-20-2015, 07:51

That first photo has digital equipment in it. I was not aware that the marines had anyone with an IQ high enough to support that type of equipment? ;)

When I first applied to the military I had half a mind to become a marine, and the recruiter said that's all I needed!

Hey! Would a moderator step in and ban this guy! :p

Richard

06-20-2015, 08:11

When I first applied to the military I had half a mind to become a marine, and the recruiter said that's all I needed!

When we finished our draft induction physicals, those of us deemed fit enough to serve were taken into a large room where a Marine NCO appeared and called off a list of names from a roster on his clipboard. Those guys left with that NCO and I never saw them again.

Those of us remaining were then confronted by an Army NCO who placed us into a formation, called us to attention, and turned the formation over to an Army Officer who then administerd the oath of allegience before we got on a few buses and traveled to Fort Ord to begin BCT.

I always figured I was selected for the Army because my test scores were too high for the Marines and I had a birth certificate which could identify both of my parents. :D

Richard

Beef

06-20-2015, 08:11

The Force Recon Companies' lineage come from the FMF PAC Amphibious Reconnaisance Bn. of WW II. Their job was to do pre-invasion beach reconnaissance. They were and are meant to be used my corps (small c) level commanders. The Recon Bns. of today are descended from the Division Reconaissance companies of WWII and are obviously division level assets.

The Raider and Parachute Bns. of WW II have no descendant units. Over the years, many units have associated themselves loosely with these WW II units by virtue of some similar tasking or training. But there is no real connection or continuity between any existing unit and the WW II.

It's a lot like our Regiment's original shared lineage with the WW II Ranger BNs and the 1st Special Service Force. Our true lineage should be to the OSS, but since that morphed into a non-military organization, the others were chosen.

I do think the patch idea is good, though. It's a cool patch with a great history. It had been worn for several years by MARSOC Marines in original and variant forms. I think that just official use of the patch and retention of the name MARSOC would have been the best scenario.

Beef

06-20-2015, 08:13

When we finished our draft induction physicals, those of us deemed fit enough to serve were taken into a large room where a Marine NCO appeared and called off a list of names from a roster on his clipboard. Those guys left with that NCO and I never saw them again.

Those of us remaining were then confronted by an Army NCO who placed us into a formation, called us to attention, and turned the formation over to an Army Officer who then administerd the oath of allegience before we got on a few buses and traveled to Fort Ord to begin BCT.

I always figured I was selected for the Army because my test scores were too high for the Marines and I had a birth certificate which could identify both of my parents. :D

Richard

We've got to lock this thread!! There's a sticky somewhere that specifically prohibits Jar Bashing!!!:D

Team Sergeant

06-20-2015, 08:20

We've got to lock this thread!! There's a sticky somewhere that specifically prohibits Jar Bashing!!!:D

I enjoy the sport of Jar Bashing as much as I enjoy clubbing SEALS..... :D

Beef

06-20-2015, 08:25

I enjoy the sport of Jar Bashing as much as I enjoy clubbing SEALS..... :D

Now you've got PETA involved!

Sohei

06-20-2015, 09:09

I enjoy the sport of Jar Bashing as much as I enjoy clubbing SEALS..... :D

Yeah, but the leather straps around our necks help to support our heads which are hard as rocks from enduring the many years of Jar Bashing. :D

Sdiver

06-20-2015, 09:14

Q: Ya know why God made Marines ???

A: To let 2nd LTs feel smart.

Richard

06-20-2015, 09:26

I do think the patch idea is good, though. It's a cool patch with a great history. It had been worn for several years by MARSOC Marines in original and variant forms. I think that just official use of the patch and retention of the name MARSOC would have been the best scenario.

Thanks for the FRB v Raider background, Beef. I was just being lazy and didn't want to go dig out my copy of Ladd's Commandos and Rangers of WW2 this morning. ;)

As far as the old Raider Bn patch goes - I can't see any SSI today incorporating something like the "Jolly Roger" in it (unlike the USN's VF-103 a/c markings) and the dagger of the current SSI is IMO a fair compromise in its historically symbolic representation of allied commando forces.

And inre Marine bashing - well, that's kinda like going after baby seals in the arctic...they make it way too easy and it's really not that much of a challenge. :rolleyes:

Richard

Beef

06-20-2015, 09:41

:oThanks for the FRB v Raider background, Beef. I was just being lazy and didn't want to go dig out my copy of Ladd's Commandos and Rangers of WW2 this morning. ;)

As far as the old Raider Bn patch goes - I can't see any SSI today incorporating something like the "Jolly Roger" in it (unlike the USN's VF-103 a/c markings) and the dagger of the current SSI is IMO a fair compromise in its historically symbolic representation of allied commando forces.

And inre Marine bashing - well, that's kinda like going after baby seals in the arctic...they make it way too easy and it's really not that much of a challenge. :rolleyes:

Richard

I only come in here to embrace the suck and feel the love....:o

Ambush Master

06-20-2015, 09:47

When we finished our draft induction physicals, those of us deemed fit enough to serve were taken into a large room where a Marine NCO appeared and called off a list of names from a roster on his clipboard. Those guys left with that NCO and I never saw them again.

Those of us remaining were then confronted by an Army NCO who placed us into a formation, called us to attention, and turned the formation over to an Army Officer who then administerd the oath of allegience before we got on a few buses and traveled to Fort Ord to begin BCT.

I always figured I was selected for the Army because my test scores were too high for the Marines and I had a birth certificate which could identify both of my parents. :D

Richard

EASY THERE R!!

My Mother was a Marine during WWII !!

Richard

06-20-2015, 10:13

Beef and AM - so you guys are claiming "exception to the rule" status and seeking an exception to policy inre to what my Dad (USN) used to refer to as "sea-going bellhop" ;) (Marine) bashing around here?

You'll need to submit a memorandum requesting a policy waiver along with a copy of your AFBT scores and notarized birth certificate to the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Misguided Stepchildren for consideration and action. :D :D

Richard

Pete

06-20-2015, 21:14

United States Navy Infantry Auxiliary.

TacOfficer

10-01-2016, 19:47

Utah Bob

10-06-2016, 14:19

FYI
New article (SEP 30 2016) posted in Military Times concerning MARSOC's decision to go with the Glock 19

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/articles/marines-opt-for-9mm-over-45-caliber-pistols-for-special-operators

The 1911 forums are going nutz over that. Didn't the Marines just buy a shitload of Colt CQB pistols??:confused:
And whats this bullshit about the concealability of the 19. Why the hell do they nead that? Going into Muslim saloons?

TacOfficer

10-06-2016, 16:29

When colt rolled out the M45A1 a former teammate of mine ran out purchased one, all the while saying you know it's good if the Marines chose it and mocking my plastic Glock.

Now I won't argue the virtues of Glock and colt 1911s. Many of you are way more versed in that than I, but I'm soooo temped to look up that old teammate. :D

( http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Military/Products/Colt-M1070CQBP-M45A1-Close-Quarter-Battle-Pistol)

frostfire

10-06-2016, 21:32

The 1911 forums are going nutz over that. Didn't the Marines just buy a shitload of Colt CQB pistols??:confused:
And whats this bullshit about the concealability of the 19. Why the hell do they nead that? Going into Muslim saloons?

At the nationals, I spoke with the 1911 gunsmith/armorer who services the MARSOC 1911. With the $$$ involved, I think the switch is as much for financial reason as it is to keep up with the demand. Met a MARSOC at airborne who is not a "gun guy." He prefers the Glock over 1911.

IMHOO, 1911 is definitely better for 1 hand shooting at 50 yards though. I'm sure that scenario happens in battle all the time! :D

Team Sergeant

10-07-2016, 16:08

At the nationals, I spoke with the 1911 gunsmith/armorer who services the MARSOC 1911. With the $$$ involved, I think the switch is as much for financial reason as it is to keep up with the demand. Met a MARSOC at airborne who is not a "gun guy." He prefers the Glock over 1911.

IMHOO, 1911 is definitely better for 1 hand shooting at 50 yards though. I'm sure that scenario happens in battle all the time! :D

Yeah, that's nice. But a few of us know the truth, one less action to perform, one less thing to remember for the marines. No thumb safety to disengage. What will be amusing is watch them with their fingers outside the trigger guard, just like our law enforcement. Another 6/10th to one second added to "re-engage" hostile targets.

Enjoy the glock. (HK should have got the contract)

WarriorDiplomat

10-07-2016, 17:15

The 1911 forums are going nutz over that. Didn't the Marines just buy a shitload of Colt CQB pistols??:confused:

And whats this bullshit about the concealability of the 19. Why the hell do they nead that? Going into Muslim saloons?

I suspect it has something to do with getting permission to conceal carry in many countries where we are not at war but the ambassador not wanting the overt armed american presence in civies to antognize any pending issues but allowing the self protection of our troops and.....the added security.

Utah Bob

10-11-2016, 19:49

I suspect it has something to do with getting permission to conceal carry in many countries where we are not at war but the ambassador not wanting the overt armed american presence in civies to antognize any pending issues but allowing the self protection of our troops and.....the added security.

And I understand that......for SF.:lifter

TacOfficer

10-12-2016, 08:29

Gentlemen,

If I may ask without violating OPSEC, generally speaking, what are the distinctions between the roles of security of Diplomatic Security Service (DSS) , the Marines and Special Forces concerning Foreign missions/Embassies?

To give my question perspective, I can imagine some conflict of priorities or chain of command and perhaps the stepping of toes. I have a vague notion of how the duty maybe divided, such as site vs personal, but I have not practical knowledge.

sinjefe

10-12-2016, 09:20

^^^DSS is responsible for the security of US diplomatic missions. In country, the Marine Security Guard (MSG) detachment provides security of the chancery (embassy compound) and is responsible for the protection of classified information and equipment under the operational control of the resident DSS Regional Security Officer (RSO). SF isn't part of the equation UNLESS directed by NCA (eg- SF in Liberia in the 90s)

TacOfficer

10-12-2016, 11:41

^^^DSS is responsible for the security of US diplomatic missions. In country, the Marine Security Guard (MSG) detachment provides security of the chancellery (embassy compound) and is responsible for the protection of classified information and equipment under the operational control of the resident DSS Regional Security Officer (RSO). SF isn't part of the equation UNLESS directed by NCA (eg- SF in Liberia in the 90s)

Appreciate the quick response,
Thank you.

I'm trying to comprehend the Marine personal weapons requirement as it relates to beeing able to concealed carry/Be discreet. Not much need to be discreet in full inform with rifle and sidearm, but I can appreciate on how the men could be targeted while off duty or off the reservation.