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Hawkman
05-15-2015, 17:24
I've searched around the forum for some information on whether or not a waist strap is beneficial/necessary part of a ruck (to be used for SFAS preparation). I came across a thread entitled 'Rucking - Cutting Waist Strap' where the general consensus is a waist strap does offer support and can prevent injury, even though some have rucked without one with no consequences.

Now to GORUCK, their events have been popular for the past few years, and they sell high-quality rucks...without waist straps. From the website, these packs look very good, and can take a beating. GORUCK does recommend one their brand of packs for their events. It is important to note that Jason McCarthy (founder of GORUCK) was a 10th Grouper.

So my question is this: How necessary is a waist strap for rucksack marching? If the answer is 'very necessary' where does that put GORUCK rucks? Are these packs truly meant to be rucked in, or are they more of a 1-day pack/BOB?

Not trying to stir up any dissention--I think GORUCK is an great brand and organization. I am simply interested in your thoughts.

Thanks for the input!

Team Sergeant
05-15-2015, 19:06
Talking about "gear" in the civilian application is a bit different than discussing it in the combat application. So which would you like to discuss?

Hawkman
05-15-2015, 19:28
In my opinion the rucks are more geared for civilian use. However, I don't think it would be out of the question to consider such a ruck for particular military applications--please correct me if this view is out of line.

-Jas-
05-16-2015, 06:49
I just looked an the Rucks over at GoRuck.com

Well clever business idea - but as TS mentioned there is a severe difference between "for military purpose" and "military design".

Of course you "can" use them as duty gear, but in my opinion those are meant for civilians who want the military look and feel not the virtue. But as mentioned clever marketing.

regarding your waist belt question:

As often in life - it depends. Do you run and jump or just walk and hike? Are you going to carry more than 50 lbs around regulary over long distances?

if you want a hike for fun ruck for 20 lbs of gear - sure spend your money on that fine US made product. but If you live the +50lbs week long lurp lifestyle you should go for a real hard and rigged Ruck with supportive waistbelt and framesystem.

stfesta
05-16-2015, 18:23
It really comes down to personal preference.

I don't like them, never have and I doubt I ever will.

I have civilian and military gear and they are both very different. For me the outcome is the same. No waist belt.

If you're rucking just fine with it or without it, don't change.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Nothing worse than some "education" or a medical study to make you worse at something you are good at.

The enemy of good is better!

Just my $0.02.
sf

trunkmonkey
11-02-2015, 21:40
I feel I should at least speak up. I have 2 GR2s and a 10L and 15L bullet ruck. I use the GR2s as travel bags for airlines and 2-3 day camping trips. If you are really selective about your gear they are great and highly organized. The 10L and 15L bullet rucks are the go to grab bags for the wife and I. I keep the bladders full and we stuff the days necessities in and we are off. I used mine mostly for hunting and stalking while she used her as an Construction Engineer in Afghanistan and in the US.

For some downsides. Aside from the lack of waist belt which has been noted the shoulder straps seem short. I am a big guy 6'4" and about 260lbs, and when the GR2 is packed there is little to no shoulder adjustment, not a pack I would really want with armor. The separate compartments are nice as long as your equipment fits in them. bulky or wide items are going to be a packing problem.

I like the bag for travel and it works great, as an always packed go bag to be able to take of for a few days. When it gets down to a hunt in rough terrain or a long scouting trip I tend to lean towards one of my Eberlestock packs.

If I were still active I doubt that a GORUCK pack would make it into my field gear. I have been hit in the head a few times by my ruck coming up as I am running or jumping to cross an obstacle and with short shoulder straps it makes it hard to fit comfortably sometimes. There is a new waist belt add on but it looks like a piece of webbing and a molle adapter.

My small .02

Flagg
11-02-2015, 22:16
I have a GR0.

Outstanding build quality with an associated very high price(but keeping Americans employed + high quality ain't cheap!)

Outstanding carry on bag for air travel.

Compliant with all airlines "carry on cube" and well designed for a business traveler for a few days worth of compartmentaliEd and accessible criticals/clothes, laptop, tablet, documents, associated, etc.

-----

For rucking/training I would rate it as potentially good, if you purchase the associated plates for ergonomic carriage of weight in its layout.

I carried it for one 24 hour Goruck event chocked full including bricks and a GORUCK Ascent with just essential climbing kit for the environment. Easy to carry and relatively ergonomic.

But to me, it's completely artificial and contrived training for rucking with one.

And for very/ultra long distance a lack of a pack frame would be high on my list of concerns.

My Goruck is my go to daily bag and carry on bag. And that's about it.

For work, as in pack fitness training, I use only my issue modified ALICE XL.

Carrying it 80km in one hit nearly 5 years ago was not exactly fun, but was a great reference point to learn(I still have my sandbag full of rocks to make weight).

Some use waist belts, I don't.

One Eason why is the extra weight(ounces add up to pounds).

Something I suggest to many folks both in and out of the military is consider buying 1-2 army surplus ALICE frame packs in both small and large. The old small ALICe packs are getting scarce around here.

Then experiment and modify them by adding/binning pouches, flaps, straps, etc as you again experiment and better understand your current/future needs.

Plus you pick up some skills with a sewing machine/awl.

GORUCK make some great(albeit expensive stuff) packs, but I know a lot of guys who modify proven(and cheap) packs too.

Just throwing it out there.

Hawkman
11-02-2015, 22:19
I feel I should at least speak up. I have 2 GR2s and a 10L and 15L bullet ruck. I use the GR2s as travel bags for airlines and 2-3 day camping trips. If you are really selective about your gear they are great and highly organized. The 10L and 15L bullet rucks are the go to grab bags for the wife and I. I keep the bladders full and we stuff the days necessities in and we are off. I used mine mostly for hunting and stalking while she used her as an Construction Engineer in Afghanistan and in the US.

For some downsides. Aside from the lack of waist belt which has been noted the shoulder straps seem short. I am a big guy 6'4" and about 260lbs, and when the GR2 is packed there is little to no shoulder adjustment, not a pack I would really want with armor. The separate compartments are nice as long as your equipment fits in them. bulky or wide items are going to be a packing problem.

I like the bag for travel and it works great, as an always packed go bag to be able to take of for a few days. When it gets down to a hunt in rough terrain or a long scouting trip I tend to lean towards one of my Eberlestock packs.

If I were still active I doubt that a GORUCK pack would make it into my field gear. I have been hit in the head a few times by my ruck coming up as I am running or jumping to cross an obstacle and with short shoulder straps it makes it hard to fit comfortably sometimes. There is a new waist belt add on but it looks like a piece of webbing and a molle adapter.

My small .02

That is a great data point--thanks for chiming in! I think all their packs look really good, but I just have a hard time justifying spending that kind of money (~$300 for a GR1) on a good ruck that I could go backpacking with when there are other excellent options like Eberlestocks, like you mentioned, that offer more in the ways of internal space and comfort (beefy waist strap).

On a related note, I really want to get ahold of their 20L gym bag when they are back in stock--just the right size for the gym essentials with a hook-and-loop field to boot!

WarriorDiplomat
11-03-2015, 18:17
I've searched around the forum for some information on whether or not a waist strap is beneficial/necessary part of a ruck (to be used for SFAS preparation). I came across a thread entitled 'Rucking - Cutting Waist Strap' where the general consensus is a waist strap does offer support and can prevent injury, even though some have rucked without one with no consequences.

Now to GORUCK, their events have been popular for the past few years, and they sell high-quality rucks...without waist straps. From the website, these packs look very good, and can take a beating. GORUCK does recommend one their brand of packs for their events. It is important to note that Jason McCarthy (founder of GORUCK) was a 10th Grouper.

So my question is this: How necessary is a waist strap for rucksack marching? If the answer is 'very necessary' where does that put GORUCK rucks? Are these packs truly meant to be rucked in, or are they more of a 1-day pack/BOB?

Not trying to stir up any dissention--I think GORUCK is an great brand and organization. I am simply interested in your thoughts.

Thanks for the input!


Those that claim to ruck without waist straps with no consequences are delusional. Putting 65-120 pounds on your shoulders and consequently on your spine is begging for long term back issues and most that retire have them. Putting a majority of the strain and weight of the ruck on your waist/hips is your best practice. Your legs will get stronger and your feet will harden just the same. Carrying a ruck for miles until your arms/shoulders go numb isn't just a sign of mental toughness but it is also a sign of pinching of nerves blood deprivation and neck strain. Wearing a waist belt on a heavy ruck is not non-tactical patrolling as some used to say and being a former SUT instructor can say it is idiotic to argue the value of having a waist strap tucked away for speed when taking it off when it is simply one more quick release over the physical longevity of an infantryman or future Ranger or SF guy.

Enough of that rant GORUCK is simply another company making money and from what i have seen their rucks are not for serious backpackers. They are selling a brand name they are currently still building with their GORUCK challenges. If I am doing serious packing, mountaineering etc....not my choice.

If a future Ranger or SF candidate is seeking to train in preparation I am a huge proponent of using the ruck you will be using. Using a specially designed ruck with ruck plates is totally different in design and feel than the real thing and keeping true to muscle conditioning methodology your stabilizer muscles you develop will be for that ruck not the issue one. Trust me they are different.

Redwood
11-04-2015, 22:30
If a future Ranger or SF candidate is seeking to train in preparation I am a huge proponent of using the ruck you will be using. Using a specially designed ruck with ruck plates is totally different in design and feel than the real thing and keeping true to muscle conditioning methodology your stabilizer muscles you develop will be for that ruck not the issue one. Trust me they are different.

I took this advice several months ago. I started with the ol' ALICE pack, but from the advice of several QPs, I decided to train with what I will be using.

I shopped around for quite some time and ended up purchasing an official issue MOLLE II rucksack in multi-cam from Fort Bragg Surplus. They had the best prices that I was able to find and when I had an issue with one of the buckles, their customer service was top notch.

In my opinion, the MOLLE pack is less miserable to carry than the ALICE was, but one way or another, after so many miles, rucking is going to get painful.

From all of my homework, it appears that the generation I and II frames were the ones that were notorious for breaking. I'd shop around for a rucksack that comes with a Gen. IV frame. The one from Fort Bragg Surplus has that covered.

Some listings, especially on eBay, wont mention which generation frame is included (typically because they are including one of the inferior frames), but they may include part numbers, so if you know which part numbers to look for and which to avoid, you should be all set.

The following thread has a useful breakdown of the different frames and associated part numbers:
https://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=39804

Here is a link to the rucksack that I have. The prices may have gone up a little, I don't quite remember what I spent. http://www.fortbraggsurplus.us/MOLLE-II-Large-Rucksack-Backpack-p/rucksack-large-complete.htm