View Full Version : Special Forces first to use new parachute system
Special Forces first to use new parachute system
http://www.fayobserver.com/military/special-forces-first-to-use-new-parachute-system/article_8febc353-0540-5014-9853-e386d2977b3d.html
"Special Forces soldiers on Fort Bragg are the first to use a new parachute system that promises to give them greater mobility and the ability to carry heavier loads.
The 3rd Special Forces Group is the first unit to start fielding the new RA-1 parachute, which can be used for free fall and static line operations....."
Took a while. They've been kicking this idea around for decades.
I always wanted to carry more weight.......
I always wanted to carry more weight.......
I was thinking there are two reasons to get a chute with more load..
1)land softer
2)more load
What are the odds of a soft landing??
I always wanted to carry more weight.......Maybe they're going to start jumping in mules....
Team Sergeant
05-11-2015, 15:10
The learning curve is going to be steep. Entanglements equal death. Low altitude hook turns can be deadly. Harder to stall, sure it is, just reach up and grab those rear risers and pull hard, it will stall....... I wish them well!
Papa Zero Three
05-11-2015, 16:40
I was thinking there are two reasons to get a chute with more load..
1)land softer
2)more load
What are the odds of a soft landing??
I can chime in on this as I was the one who wrote the requirements for this some years back and have jumped this new system going on about 200+ times from 25K AGL and lower, as well as flown the reserve as a main during evals.
What has increased is known as the AUW or All up Weight that the canopy can hold suspended under it and still perform well for personnel landings ( it can do more for cargo but thats a different topic). So what this means, is that the RA-1 is capable of suspending more weight and handle/ perform as designed. So all those big dudes who would come screaming in on MC-4s no matter what they did, no longer have to land like a sack of potatoes. Even the big dudes with a real combat load can land softly.
This is also a 9 cell canopy vice a 7 cell MC-4. The design of the canopy is also different than what most might be familiar with as even the stabalizers inflate on this canopy and it has a no bullshit 4:1 glide ratio.
As for stalling it. Not going to happen using toggles or pulling rear risers down,unless someone does something incredibly stupid. I know this because I have done everything imaginable to actually get it to stall on purpose. You have to actually start pulling down on suspension line above the rapid links before the canopy actually starts to collapse. Lets not forget how long the risers are on military systems, you would have to have arms longer than an ape to even get close to the top of the risers on a normal reach up. To do what I described above, you have to climb up the rear risers and it isn't exactly easy or something you could do by accident.
As for the learning curve on this system. It's the glide that people have to learn to adjust to, both at altitude and when landing. The sight picture people are used to for landing the MC-4 is too short, so people typically overshoot where they think their feet will touch down. This canopy has a very generous glide however you can sink it straight down without fear of collapse. Jumpers will also now be able to use friction buckles on the front risers that are actually easy to use and functional, another God send for those light guys or those days when you're trying to get some forward drive into a headwind.
The system is also double bag static line capable, like the MC-5 system, so you can deploy this system via static line as well. It works great for following a GPS guided bundles out and for keeping people on level(s) in the stack.
The container is also a great improvement, as it's actually comfortable with body armor on.
Need to go back to the T-10 .... :)
I can chime in on this as I was the one who wrote the requirements for this some years back and have jumped this new system going on about 200+ times from 25K AGL and lower, as well as flown the reserve as a main during evals.
What has increased is known as the AUW or All up Weight that the canopy can hold suspended under it and still perform well for personnel landings ( it can do more for cargo but thats a different topic). So what this means, is that the RA-1 is capable of suspending more weight and handle/ perform as designed. So all those big dudes who would come screaming in on MC-4s no matter what they did, no longer have to land like a sack of potatoes. Even the big dudes with a real combat load can land softly.
This is also a 9 cell canopy vice a 7 cell MC-4. The design of the canopy is also different than what most might be familiar with as even the stabalizers inflate on this canopy and it has a no bullshit 4:1 glide ratio.
As for stalling it. Not going to happen using toggles or pulling rear risers down,unless someone does something incredibly stupid. I know this because I have done everything imaginable to actually get it to stall on purpose. You have to actually start pulling down on suspension line above the rapid links before the canopy actually starts to collapse. Lets not forget how long the risers are on military systems, you would have to have arms longer than an ape to even get close to the top of the risers on a normal reach up. To do what I described above, you have to climb up the rear risers and it isn't exactly easy or something you could do by accident.
As for the learning curve on this system. It's the glide that people have to learn to adjust to, both at altitude and when landing. The sight picture people are used to for landing the MC-4 is too short, so people typically overshoot where they think their feet will touch down. This canopy has a very generous glide however you can sink it straight down without fear of collapse. Jumpers will also now be able to use friction buckles on the front risers that are actually easy to use and functional, another God send for those light guys or those days when you're trying to get some forward drive into a headwind.
The system is also double bag static line capable, like the MC-5 system, so you can deploy this system via static line as well. It works great for following a GPS guided bundles out and for keeping people on level(s) in the stack.
The container is also a great improvement, as it's actually comfortable with body armor on.
Need to go back to the T-10 .... :)
Yeah what he said. Everyone needs a T10 high wind landing, feet, head, feet, head, back!
x SF med
05-11-2015, 17:58
T-10 and MC1-1B.... I preferred the -1.... especially on Turner DZ, small, lots of obstacles and ringed in by trees. On Luzon, it didn't matter, it was friggin huge.
Thanks P03
I and my SF buddy had the pleasure of attending the USMC Double Bag Static Line transition course with their MMPS, while in NM. We got to tag along with a bunch of Marine Reserve Recon folks.
The course was 2 weeks long and we made 12 jumps to complete the transition. The final jump was a night, combat equipment, O2, with a 12 kilometer stand off for the altitude. We had to make it into a 100 meter circle. It was not difficult.
If the Marines can do it SF can.
Papa Zero Three
05-11-2015, 23:29
Thanks P03
I and my SF buddy had the pleasure of attending the USMC Double Bag Static Line transition course with their MMPS, while in NM. We got to tag along with a bunch of Marine Reserve Recon folks.
The course was 2 weeks long and we made 12 jumps to complete the transition. The final jump was a night, combat equipment, O2, with a 12 kilometer stand off for the altitude. We had to make it into a 100 meter circle. It was not difficult.
If the Marines can do it SF can.
The RA-1 is superior to the Marine MMPS system in terms of glide ratio and canopy performance and handling. We compared them side by side during the evals and the MMPS just barely gets a 3:1 glide ratio while the Intruder canopy (RA-1) gets a legitimate 4:1 glide ratio. So if you liked the MMPS, you are really going to like the RA-1 in terms of performance and comfort.
The double bag system on the RA-1 is also designed better than the MMPS, so jumpers don't get twists on deployment like you do on the MMPS. It's due to the better overall design and riser management inside the container. It's also easier to rig/de-rig from a riggers perspective, so you can go from HALO to Static line or visa versa fairly quickly and easily. It's easy enough that jumpers them selves can do it with a block of training. The PJs have had the RA-1 for a few years now and I was able to transition them from their systems to the RA-1 and be capable of packing the main in both HALO and static line mode with the same type of rigger supervision you typically have packing a MC-4 main. There is also a HAHO seat for the RA-1 thats more than just a flat board like on the MMPS system. The RA-1 HAHO seat is actually contoured, kind of like an old tractor seat, so your legs don't go numb when you're under canopy for 30 mins or longer.
Guymullins
05-12-2015, 02:58
When a HAHO assault was considered for the Abbottabad raid, this new system could reach the bin Laden compound from a direct flightpath between Jalalabad and Islamabad. This could enable the assault team to be transported in what would appear to be a regular flight between the two cities, and even in a no-wind situation, easily reach the target. As the prevailing wind aids the flighpath, an exit altitude of 19 000ft ASL could have been sufficient. In the book, Osama's Angel, this is treated as a viable alternative to the usual fraught helicopter insertion favored by US forces. As it turned out, HAHO insertion may well have been less embarrassing than another helicopter mishap.
When a HAHO assault was considered for the Abbottabad raid, this new system could reach the bin Laden compound from a direct flightpath between Jalalabad and Islamabad. This could enable the assault team to be transported in what would appear to be a regular flight between the two cities, and even in a no-wind situation, easily reach the target. As the prevailing wind aids the flighpath, an exit altitude of 19 000ft ASL could have been sufficient. In the book, Osama's Angel, this is treated as a viable alternative to the usual fraught helicopter insertion favored by US forces. As it turned out, HAHO insertion may well have been less embarrassing than another helicopter mishap.
What???
Also - This fielding for both pax training and equipment NEF could have been handled smoother ...
Great another chute, we have been having new chutes every 3 to 5 years. Come on!! Really??!! Why? Yes I can read, but Really, why does the military or Army new a new chute? I understand one for jumping Body Armor since that is the road we are going down now for combat. But every 3 years!!
As I said when we talked about all of SF going to MFF training. The Regiment needs to adopt the USMC Multi-Mission Parachute System (MMPS) high glide configured during High Altitude Low Opening (HALO)/ High Altitude High Opening (HAHO) operations. MMPS Double bag MC-5(?) Parachute, and jumping techniques is much easier to teach and IMO Do. Tactical I feel it is better for SF. WE DON'T NEED A NEW CHUTE FOR THIS EITHER!!
Papa Zero Three
05-12-2015, 06:42
Great another chute, we have been having new chutes every 3 to 5 years. Come on!! Really??!! Why? Yes I can read, but Really, why does the military or Army new a new chute? I understand one for jumping Body Armor since that is the road we are going down now for combat. But every 3 years!!
As I said when we talked about all of SF going to MFF training. The Regiment needs to adopt the USMC Multi-Mission Parachute System (MMPS) high glide configured during High Altitude Low Opening (HALO)/ High Altitude High Opening (HAHO) operations. MMPS Double bag MC-5(?) Parachute, and jumping techniques is much easier to teach and IMO Do. Tactical I feel it is better for SF. WE DON'T NEED A NEW CHUTE FOR THIS EITHER!!
The MC-4, in it's evolving configurations, has been in the system for about 20 years. I believe you are confusing rounds with squares here, which is a whole different conversation.
What you describe in the the MMPS is what the RA-1 does, but without the all the unnecessary configurations and is easier to field as it doesn't require an institutional training change to the existing force. Meaning the handles are all in the same place and procedures are the same. The MMPS is a monstrosity of a system, it's uncomfortable and has more configuration parts/spare parts for rigger sheds to keep track of than you can shake a stick at, it's an uncomfortable container to wear and most importantly, the canopy is only slightly better performance wise than the MC-4 canopy.
In comparison, the RA-1 is magnitudes better in canopy performance and user comfort while requiring little to no change to the existing force or the rigger side of it. The RA-1 is the best military HALO/HAHO product out there, hands down, no question and it's what the force is getting instead of a compromise or mediocre product.
Sounds like the RA-1 is a good system.
How is the MFF for all SF coming? For that matter have we looked at a better way of teaching the whole airborne insertion thing to new SF soldiers and a way to transition the older folks?
When you look at it the basic airborne school is a waste of time. We need more of a Forest Service model where in the first week you are leaving an aircraft on a static line.
Team Sergeant
05-12-2015, 09:32
When a HAHO assault was considered for the Abbottabad raid, this new system could reach the bin Laden compound from a direct flightpath between Jalalabad and Islamabad. This could enable the assault team to be transported in what would appear to be a regular flight between the two cities, and even in a no-wind situation, easily reach the target. As the prevailing wind aids the flighpath, an exit altitude of 19 000ft ASL could have been sufficient. In the book, Osama's Angel, this is treated as a viable alternative to the usual fraught helicopter insertion favored by US forces. As it turned out, HAHO insertion may well have been less embarrassing than another helicopter mishap.
During the Son Tay raid the green berets deliberately crashed a helicopter for speed and surprise.
During the bin ladin raid the SEALS accidently crashed a $100,000,000 stealth helicopter and took 23 SEALS to kill one 70 year old guy.... and gave China the remaining helo parts for their stealth program.
I rest my case.
Kcolliver
08-30-2016, 08:31
The during design validation, the MMPS was tested along side the RA-1 (Rader Intruder). Jumpers liked the RA-1 better and the MMPS was more than twice as expensive as the RA-1
The during design validation, the MMPS was tested along side the RA-1 (Rader Intruder). Jumpers liked the RA-1 better and the MMPS was more than twice as expensive as the RA-1
That means we're buying the MMPS then......
That means we're buying the MMPS then......
You can't be serious. We had a similar testing / competition for new camouflage for the entire Army and after competition we ended up with.....the ACU.
oh. wait. Nevermind.
Papa Zero Three
08-30-2016, 21:50
That means we're buying the MMPS then......
No, the RA-1 was selected and is a program of record now.
Divemaster
08-30-2016, 23:11
No, the RA-1 was selected and is a program of record now.
I think PRB meant that in a pink font tone of voice. Kinda like the same tone we wished they used when selecting the ACU.
Eagle5US
08-31-2016, 05:59
Why wait for a transition course once at GP? Perhaps it would make more sense to incorporate this chute into the "MFF for all" pipeline?
Teach them to jump it (static and free fall) deploy / fly it properly from various altitudes, and land properly. Further add a "ground week and drop Basic ABN from the pipeline...save even more money....:munchin
Kcolliver
08-31-2016, 06:56
The RA-1 is already being taught in the MFFPC in the HALO version. The DBSL is being taught at each Group New Equipment Training session. Probably in Oct 16 the MFFPC will include RA-1 in DBSL mode too.
SouthernDZ
08-31-2016, 07:48
From the same Army that gave us the Bradley Fighting Vehicle.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA :D
Seeing how this chute can deploy static or free fall, it would seem to make sense from an operational standpoint to convert all MFF teams to normal teams, and have everyone qualify on static line HAHO ops with this chute. There really isn't a lot of need for free falling, as HAHO is much more useful from a tactical standpoint. It would be feasible... just a matter of getting ODAs trained on aerial navigation and grouping. Seems feasible.
For those who were part of the fielding and selection, any talk of doing that? It would seem so based on the chute's capabilities and the MFF for all movement. Just curious.
cback0220
08-31-2016, 20:46
During the Son Tay raid the green berets deliberately crashed a helicopter for speed and surprise.
During the bin ladin raid the SEALS accidently crashed a $100,000,000 stealth helicopter and took 23 SEALS to kill one 70 year old guy.... and gave China the remaining helo parts for their stealth program.
I rest my case.
I didn't know the SEALs had pilots, or helicopters.
I didn't know the SEALs had pilots, or helicopters.
Come on. Every Navy Seal can fly planes AND helicopters.
You need to read more.
Come on. Every Navy Seal can fly planes AND helicopters.
You need to read more.
I hear they are pretty good cooks also:eek:
Utah Bob
09-02-2016, 08:58
Yeah what he said. Everyone needs a T10 high wind landing, feet, head, feet, head, back!
Very manly! 😝
doctom54
09-02-2016, 09:52
Yeah what he said. Everyone needs a T10 high wind landing, feet, head, feet, head, back!
With a WIEC bag;)