View Full Version : The Freedom Stick
Lionshare
04-07-2015, 23:28
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Sheeple have a hard time with anything that does not have that warm-fuzzy look. Your stick is not very warm, nor very fuzzy,, in their eyes.
Personally it looks good,, But I'm not your lane grader...
Suggestion, Get a cheap aluminum walking cane (c ref) from the local Salvation Army store(substitute store of choice). Maybe Aunt Wilma has a spare?
The hollow, telescoping style. Fill it with lead shot or pennies, or other suitable weight.
It might not draw as much attention to your endeavors..
Ruck on..
:munchin
miclo18d
04-08-2015, 05:04
instead of those American flag ends, you should have put some sickle and hammers or a crescent moon and all would have been right in the world! Silly nationalist!
BS they had no complaints. Walk with it and if stopped again tell them it is to ward off stray dogs.
instead of those American flag ends, you should have put some sickle and hammers or a crescent moon and all would have been right in the world! Silly nationalist!Wrap in the colors that LGBTetc use and you'll be fine...:D
I did the same thing - three 36" lengths of 5/8 rebar weighs within a pound or so of my FAL's weight.
I've had no complaints, but I live in AL, so I probably could just run with the FAL and it'd be ok....
I seriously doubt it was the "stick". It was the ruck and your moving with a purpose - it scares the sheep. You were doing something outside their exeperiential zone and they therefor feared you.
Concur on wrapping it in GILBERT colors - you won't have an issue. If they DO stop you they will be fearful of offending a "member of the tribe" and will most likely let you carry on.
BS they had no complaints. Walk with it and if stopped again tell them it is to ward off stray dogs.
What JOKER said Jakedeep, Walk with it again. I would say just use PVC End caps in lieu of that tape. This happened in Cleveland, OH too??!!
If you really want to camouflage the "Freedom Stick," I say get a old gold umbrella and use the brella part as a covering. IMO you are carrying a piece of PVC Piping, WTH OVER!!
.....before he finally moved on and instructed me to head back to my car and leave for the day. I was also advised not to return to the park with the Freedom Stick again.
"Obey and submit to me because I am me."
And they (cops) wonder why citizens are getting fed up with them.
...be careful, the cop might fucking shoot you next time
Team Sergeant
04-08-2015, 13:40
I'd go back with the same stick and two friends with cameras and audio who are taping you at a distance.
I'd have also told the cop to fuck off after he told me to leave, but that's just me.
We don't have those problems here in Arizona, we carry real guns almost anywhere we please.
When you're in the right never back down.
Lionshare
04-08-2015, 13:53
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DIYPatriot
04-08-2015, 13:59
Prior to shipping out, I rucked around the 'hood quite a bit and usually brought my dutch shepherd along for the ride. Knowing that I live in a residential area surrounded by Navy folks (near Millington, TN) the idea that I would stick out like a sore thumb was obvious to me - after all, how many sailors do you see rucking??? Especially in a land-locked navy base! lol
I contacted my local LEOs and advised them where I would be training, what I would be wearing and when I would be there. I wasn't doing this as a form of submission to them. I did that because I was honestly terrified of getting shot by one of them. To their credit, they were cool as hell and one even offered to let me borrow an M4 trainer to simulate full battle rattle.
Red Flag 1
04-08-2015, 14:28
A little out of my lane here, but......Just go with a white stick, with about a three inch red tip. Wear really dark sun glasses, and think Stevie Wonder. For added effect, tape one to each fender of your car, keep the sun glasses on while driving; more Mr. Wonder:D.
A little out of my lane here, but......Just go with a white stick, with about a three inch red tip. Wear really dark sun glasses, and think Stevie Wonder. For added effect, tape one to each fender of your car, keep the sun glasses on while driving; more Mr. Wonder:D.
Then take a selfie, like Mr. Wonder. :D
x SF med
04-08-2015, 21:33
I've set up a new game-plan after going over the responses...
1. Apply generous amounts of rainbow tape to the PVC pipe.
2. Keep rucking with it.
3. MOVE TO THE SOUTH.
:lifter
Remove rainbow tape before moving South, unless you move to key West or Asheville.
I would have just asked if I was breaking any laws and once he said no, I would have just walked off.
Sorry!
Sheep don't get to determine what I can and can't do if I'm doing it legally. I don't care what their made up fears are.
Possible. LE can not stop you or detain you for no reason. Unless he had probable cause etc. You ask, "Have I broken any law" and Am I being detained? "
If the answer is no he can NOT legally do anything. Most people do not know this. Sadly may LE officers that are taught that in the academy forget the basics like that.
Brush Okie is ABSOLUTELY correct and that is EXACTLY what I would have asked him and then walked away. Not going to play the game of him fishing for something. I also do not have to show him any form of ID for the same reason.
Not quite accurate. A cop merely needs reasonable articulable suspicion (NOT probable cause) to stop and make an inquiry on/to a prviate individual. You - are for all practical purposes - being detained at that moment for investigatory purposes. The reasonable suspicion and field interview are used to attain "probable cause" that something untoward is afoot which may lead to your seizure via arrest.
Just remember - you may be 100% correct in what your rights may be but that may not defeat the subsequent arrest and ride for failure to comply with LAWFUL orders of a Police officer.
We can argue all day long what lawful orders are - I'm not going to engage.
I am in YOUR guys' corner here. just be careful you don't do something stupid and get yourself shot in the process.
Ahhh,
but then he must explain that "reasonable suspicion" then tell me what law he suspects me of breaking if he wants me to hang around. If he can't do that, I'm walking right after I ask him if I'm being detained. If he can't tell me I'm being detained under suspicion of committing a crime he's fishing and I'm not biting. :)
The Reaper
04-10-2015, 09:51
Lawyer, UP!!
TR
Ahhh,
but then he must explain that "reasonable suspicion" then tell me what law he suspects me of breaking if he wants me to hang around. If he can't do that, I'm walking right after I ask him if I'm being detained. If he can't tell me I'm being detained under suspicion of committing a crime he's fishing and I'm not biting. :)
Let me know how that works out for you. :munchin
Let me know how that works out for you. :munchinI would've have taken a different approach...
I'd run the route three (3) different times a day with Freedom Stick. Every time I was stopped, I'd simply reply "OK" and be back at it again. :o;):lifter
Ahh yes very fine but difference between PC and reasonable suspicion. That is why you ask, am I being detained? Also you can throw in am I free to leave? and What law do you suspect I am breaking? Remember LE can not stop you without a reason. In this case carrying a stick of some sort. Is that illegal under the local law? What illegal activity is he investigating? LE HAS to tell you WHY they stopped you. Carrying a stick is not illegal, but having what could be a big pipe bomb gives him a reason.
actually - yes, they CAN stop you for suspicious behavior - it doesn't necessarily have to be patently illegal. Suspicious behavior - at that point - is either in the eye of the officer; or, in the veiw of the complainant. YOUR opinion on what you are doing really isn't relevant AT THAT POINT. For instance, if you are parked behind Piggly-Wiggly next to the dumpster at 0300 in the morning and a cop car drives by, expect to be asked what you are doing. Refusing to answer and attempting to drive away will NOT work out so well for you and I do NOT advise that course of action.
You may NOT be doing anything illegal but to state that they can't question you and that you do NOT have to respond to their lawful (emphasis) orders is not accurate.
That is why suspicious behavior will get you the "field interview". Your responses - or lack thereof - is what may get you detained and/or arrested.
Guys - I am 100% with you on this and concur - but you all don't have quite the rights you all think you have. Again...even if you ARE right in what you claim; or, in your refusal to obey the commands of the officer with regard to THAT PARTICULAR situation, he still has the ability to ruin your day.
I'm in your corner in this and have taken steps to try to educate the police in matters such as these and getting them back to being "Peace officers" by me and a couple buddies writing the book: "Virtuous Policing; Bridging the Gulf Between the Protectors and Those They Serve". We are in final edits with the publisher at present and it will be out this summer.
I'm with ya'll on this but thinking that a cop has to inform you of what laws you broke before he can talk to you is not accurate. This is NOT the military and article 31 rights do NOT apply (the miltary via Article 31 is much more protective of your rights and you DO have to be informed of potential violations and your right NOT to talk). In civil law enforcement, the trigger is custodial interrogation. No cutodial interrogation? No rights advisement.
Ahh yes very fine but difference between PC and reasonable suspicion. That is why you ask, am I being detained? Also you can throw in am I free to leave? and What law do you suspect I am breaking? Remember LE can not stop you without a reason. In this case carrying a stick of some sort. Is that illegal under the local law? What illegal activity is he investigating? LE HAS to tell you WHY they stopped you. Carrying a stick is not illegal, but having what could be a big pipe bomb gives him a reason.I don't even understand why, when stopped, would any reasonable sane person would even engage in questioning a LEO?:confused:
I've been stopped before, went through that question and answer process and ended up cuffed. Nowadays, they probably think I'm blind, deaf & dumb wandering the earth legally.;):cool:
Streck-Fu
04-10-2015, 11:05
....but you all don't have quite the rights you all think you have.
I applaud your efforts to educate the officers with the goal of them become 'peace' officers. However, if an officer persists in questioning and the only possible charges against a citizen from the situation are related to Failure To Comply, we are stuck in a position where we only have the rights an officer chooses to give us.
I applaud your efforts to educate the officers with the goal of them become 'peace' officers. However, if an officer persists in questioning and the only possible charges against a citizen from the situation are related to Failure To Comply, we are stuck in a position where we only have the rights an officer chooses to give us.
Therein lies the "rub". i think it is a HUGE education process for law enforcement today. Not everyone is a criminal and not every card game needs to be explosively breached.
I'm with you Streck.
Lionshare
04-10-2015, 11:42
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You misunderstood. I did not say before you say anything I said they have to tell you at some point WHY they stopped you. In this case it was because of the sticK and supposed citizen complaints.
Do you remember the time limit set by the courts for a traffic stop? Did you know there is one and what the exceptions are.
I am not advocating being an ads to every LE out there but I have ran into a cop once that was way out of line. Later on he was asked to resign because he was making death threats to his sons ex girlfriend that had beat the he'll out of her. Oh yea he was on duty at the time or should I say several times.
Not arguing with you Okie. The graphic was pretty well done. The only argument I have with it is that if they call a canine to do a cursory inspection of your vehicle you are NOT free to leave. They may detain you for a "reasonable time" (dependent upon the circumstances) while awaiting the canine. the same goes for your hypothetical. They may detain you for a reasonable time to accomplish the reason for the stop.
I believe someone earlier stated they had to tell you what laws were being broken. That is NOT the case - they merely need to tell you what you already stated: "why" they stopped you. It could be as simple as saying "it is a little unusual to be camped out by the dumpster behind piggly-wiggly at 0300 and we wanted to ensure all was Ok". or, "we had a complaint of an individual acting strangely in the park".
I think we are in violent agreement. But even the graphic stated that you don't walk away or fight with them over what you perceive to be a violation....you report it.
I am currently in my 26th year of law enforcement and have never been offended by anyone when they decided to invoke their constitutional right to not speak with me for whatever reason I was speaking with them or when they would ask me what my reason was for stopping or conversing with them. After all...they are involved in the action.
However, I will say that I always appreciated it when they did it in a civilized and polite manner. It simply made it easier to communicate with them. I think many LEO's get upset and angered when they are questioned because they take it "personally" when it isn't. I question people about things so I feel it is only fair that I be questioned about things as well. That's called conversation.
To me...it isn't personal until it's actually...personal...as in hands on personal. Other than that...it doesn't bother me.
Lionshare
04-10-2015, 17:59
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As to that LEO having a “bad day”, I would agree that he probably did. Whether intentional or not…he was over-reacting and over nothing that seemed remotely worthy of his behavior. As such, he was obviously wrong. Law Enforcement is not a profession by which you can go and have a “bad day.” Are LEO’s human beings…of course they are. Are they allowed to have a bad day…yes, but not while performing your duties. If your day starts off bad or goes bad while working, the professional LEO knows to distance himself from anything that would set him/her off…if they are incapable of that, one of their co-workers should recognize it and address it. If the co-worker is unable…then notify a supervisor. It’s “your reputation” that’s on the line.
Law Enforcement is a profession that works under arms. It’s a serious business and requires serious people who want to do what they were paid to do…serve and protect. It’s that simple. LEO’s cannot and should not tolerate behavior from their co-workers that they wouldn’t want to tolerate from those they are paid to serve. In fact, as part of your duties, LEO’s usually have to accept actions from the public that are aggravating/maddening and handle them in a way that is deemed professional. Why? Because you are/should be a professional. Again, it’s a serious business. Most of what happens out there isn’t truly personal…even though many seem to take it personally.
I have less than two years left until I retire. My son wants to follow in my footsteps. This profession has been good to me and my family and I want it to continue to do so should he choose as his final choice to be a LEO. It is up to us…the current LEO’s…to clean our house and keep it honorable. I want my son to be a member of an honorable profession. If you as a LEO have honor and maintain it…those around you will act accordingly. In my area, those that want to be a clown and may actually be one…will not act “clownish” around me because they “know beyond a shadow of a doubt” that I will not tolerate it. They have seen me take corrective action at multiple levels and know that even though we may work together…I will not lessen my standards for any one of them and will hold them responsible for their actions. Whether that is within my department…or those that work within my AO…it simply doesn’t matter to me. Act the fool…I will treat you like a fool and do whatever I have to in order to correct it. That philosophy has helped me well for the past 26 years.
I don’t answer for every bad LEO’s actions that are outside of my realm of control. However, if I can do something to correct those that are in my realm…I do so. Most often, it isn’t popular, but, in the end…who cares. I sleep good that night knowing I did what I had to in order to fix a problem. I have put way more officers in jail than I ever wanted to. I have had way more fired and suspended than what I ever wanted to, and unfortunately, I am still doing it and probably will be until I retire.
There are LEO’s that I know personally and they are good and honorable men that I would go with into the absolute worst of situations. LE is an honorable profession…we (current LEO's) just have to ensure its sustainability. We simply can’t allow our profession to be muddied by those that aren’t truly called to serve and protect. It’s up to us to keep our house clean, but, it does take effort.
Sorry for the rant...but the "bad ones" make it hard on those of us who are towing the line.
The Reaper
04-10-2015, 20:53
It is good that there are individuals in LE with this kind of mentality. I mentioned this to someone via PM, but I think the park ranger who had stopped me was having a 'bad' day. Maybe you can come up and give him a few lessons on policin'. Sometimes one prick will ruin the reputation of entire profession because the sheeps do not see a separate entity between the person and the badge.
I returned to the park today for a longer light-ruck w/ stick out and proud and did not have any issues aside from the somewhat frequent rattled stares from fellow pedestrians as I passed them by.
Hearts and minds, young Jedi.
TR