PDA

View Full Version : Need help with a project.


CHUNT
01-28-2015, 16:50
Help would be greatly appreciated.

My family is working on a birthday present for my father. I myself was not 7th Group SF. I was enlisted in the regular Army but my father was 7th Group. He retired in 2000. I am trying to put together his old Class A uniform (Jacket only) and place it in a shadow box. Only problem is AR 670-1 doesn't really explain how to put the uniform together for SF personnel. Regular Army soldiers only put qualification and driving badges on the left breast pocket. Looking at pictures online for SF personnel, everyone has Airborne wings and others badges next to their qualification badge on the flap. So not sure where to go. Below are the things I have and need to know where they go.

Master Airborne Wings (I have the red flash to go behind it), Free fall wings, CIB, Uruguay jump wings, Qual badge, and Drivers badge. **I know where the ribbon rack and unit awards go. Also if I'm correct, a SF crest goes on the top shoulder tabs and above the unit awards.

Again any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

JJ_BPK
01-28-2015, 19:15
Do us a favor?? Fill in your profile and post a nice intro, as you were asked to do in the email you received.

When that is complete, You need to state a little more about your dad and the time period he was in the service. The more NON_PERSONAL data the better.

The current version of AR 670-1, dated: Sept 2014, may not be for the jacket you have for your dad. Different uniform have bling mounted differently.

Example: When I graduated from the SCUBA school in 69, there was no badge. Around 1971 the SCUBA badge was authorized. Currently the Combat Divers Badge is issued.

Welcome to PS.com

UWOA
01-29-2015, 12:43
.

Richard
01-29-2015, 13:00
His Intro's in the proper forum - anybody wanna help himm with his request?

Richard

CHUNT
01-29-2015, 13:18
.

JJ_BPK
01-29-2015, 13:36
Chris

Was your father enlisted or officer.
What was his MOS? 18A or 18Z?
Did he serve in combat?
You should try to get a copy of his DD-214 so you can get the overseas bars correct.

The difference are small but very big, at the same time.

Here are a couple pics of an officer's and enlisted class a green, not sure of the date. Notice the differences on the sleeve.

Use these as a reference to you questions.

JJ_BPK
01-29-2015, 13:48
Chris

While looking for examples I ran across the BIO for the CSGM at Ft Blanding. He is SF so his pic will be helpful. It is with the new blues but most of the points are still valid on Class A Greens.

SF Hunter
01-29-2015, 13:57
Have you looked at DA PAM 670-1. It covers all the uniforms, even the old green Class "As", and how they should be set up. To include all the badges you are referring too.

To be technical, a retiree/prior service uniform is not authorized to wear the SF Crest/DUI on the shoulder tabs or the oval backing behind the jump wings. That is only when actively assigned to a unit. The Regimental Affiliation (SF Crest) would still go above the right pocket/unit awards. Foreign Jump wings between the SF Crest and unit awards.

Richard
01-29-2015, 13:59
Chris,

Your dad's uniform should look something like one of these.

Good luck.

Richard

CHUNT
01-29-2015, 15:06
.

JJ_BPK
01-29-2015, 15:39
Take a look at pages 230-...It has examples of the order of skill and marksmanship badges and placement.

http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/p670_1.pdf
Here is the order of presence for Skill Badges:


Combat and Special Skill Badges and Tabs
Group 1

Combat Infantryman Badge

Combat Action Badge

Expert Infantryman Badge

Group 2

Combat Medical Badge

Expert Field Medical Badge

Group 3

Army Astronaut Badge (Any Army aviation badge with Astronaut Device)

Army Aviator Badge

Army Flight Surgeon Badge

Army Aviation Badge

Explosive Ordnance Disposal Badge

Group 4

Parachutist Badge

Pathfinder Badge

Air Assault Badge

Military Freefall Parachutist Badge

Space Operations Badge [5]

Special Forces Tab

Ranger Tab

Sapper Tab

Jungle Expert Tab (worn by 25th ID graduates of the JOTC course)[6][7]

Group 5

Diver Badges

Special Operations Diver Badges

Driver and Mechanic Badges

Parachute Rigger Badge

UWOA
01-29-2015, 15:46
He was enlisted, 18C. I have his DD-214 that is how I know what is on the uniform.


With all the examples they are great. Thanks. Only problem is none of them have a drivers badge on them. That is what I noticed when I kept looking for uniforms online.

Did you mean 'divers' badge? If so, if my memory serves me correctly, that's a qualification/proficiency badge that would go on the left breast pocket flap ... as to the order, I would have to look it up in the AR, but it should be there.

Oops, JJ-BPK and I posted at almost the same time ... disregard the order remark.

.

CHUNT
01-29-2015, 16:10
No I do mean driver's badge. Just like the qualification badge but for driving. You would be proficient in wheel vehicles, track etc. and can have multiple tabs on it.


Going through DA PAM 670-1, same thing, all the examples they have don't have the drivers badge on them. Just the qual and airborne wings next to it. By looking at the order JJ_BPK presented, would I put the qual, drivers, and free fall in between the two on the pocket flap and airborne and CIB above the ribbon rack?

Joker
01-29-2015, 17:17
I know your dad, we were on the same team and I see him at work every now and then.

PSM
01-29-2015, 17:38
No I do mean driver's badge. Just like the qualification badge but for driving.

I'll be danged. I never heard of that one, but here it is:

Pat

CHUNT
01-29-2015, 18:01
.

(1VB)compforce
01-29-2015, 18:08
I don't think I've ever seen an NCO wearing the drivers badge unless they were in a transportation unit or worked in the motor pool. I know I never wore mine. I certainly never saw anyone at Group wear theirs.

Short answer to your questions:

Left pocket flap from the center of the jacket out: master blaster, MFF, weapons qual (MFF and Master wings can be swapped )
left side above the pocket: individual awards w/ CIB on top
right side above the pocket: unit awards w/ foreign jump wings above and SF Crest above that

If you decide to put the driver badge on:

Left pocket flap from the center of the jacket out: MFF, driver's badge, weapons qual
left side above the pocket from bottom to top: individual awards, master blaster, CIB
right side above the pocket: unit awards w/ foreign jump wings above and SF Crest above that


Did you buy a new dress green jacket? If so, you'll want to make sure you have the correct number of service stripes and overseas stripes on the sleeves.

Given that this is for a shadow box and not for wear, I'd put the flash behind the jump wings and the SF DUI on the tabs (epaulets) so the uniform looks like it did when he was active. He'll know he has to take them off if he ever wears it.

(1VB)compforce
01-29-2015, 18:16
Joker,

Looking at your profile, I can guarantee you know him. Please don't let him know about this. It is a suprise. Thanks.


Attached is and example of how one soldier did it. I don't feel it looks correct though. Plus, wouldn't the free fall go there instead?

That uniform is incorrect and he'd get gigged big time for it. All three on the flap should be 1/8" below the seam. His qual badges are too low. (Edit - double checked the reg and removed a statement that was incorrect here) That uniform is a soup sandwich. Traditionally, if he was going to wear those badges the wings would go above the ribbons, but it's not a requirement. That looks like one of the photos where everyone throws the shirt and jacket on for a quick picture pre-deployment, but has their boxers on out of frame, not a DA photo.

As someone else mentioned, the badges that are in the same group can be arranged in any position. So Airborne, Air Assault, MFF, scuba, etc. can be placed on the flap or above the awards and any of them can be in any one of those locations. Tradition says that Airborne and Air Assault go above the awards if any are placed there, but technically any from Group 4 can be in that position. Qual badges (driver and weapons) can be in any location, but only on the pocket flap.

There is no difference by regulation between the placement of items on an SF soldier's uniform and any other soldier's uniform. There are just skill badges that are typically only seen on an SF uniform, like scuba and MFF. The rules are the same though.

I don't think I've ever seen an NCO wearing the drivers badge unless they were in a transportation unit or worked in the motor pool. I know I never wore mine. I certainly never saw anyone at Group wear theirs.
...and now I have

stfesta
01-29-2015, 18:57
If you're in the Fort Bragg/Fayetteville, I will be more than happy to physically help you. It's very difficult to gauge how well you are doing with all the pictures being sent to you and everyone making assumptions about this and that.

PM me if you are in the area and we can figure this out.

I was in 7th Group from 91-99, chances are I may know your father as well.

Hope I can help out,
Scott

CHUNT
01-29-2015, 20:07
to (1VB)compforce:

Thanks. Your info really helps. Everything on it won't be politically correct. He has two foreign awards and you are only allowed to wear one but I plan on putting both (Uruguay jump wings and German Marksman, Schützenschnur). But I at least want to put everything in the correct places. I have the dress green jacket already (his original one I saw sitting in his closet last time I visited him, that is what gave me the idea) and was able to get the correct amount of stripes for each arm. He never plans on wearing it again so I'm not worried about that.


to stfesta (Scott):

Thanks for offering the help. However I am currently in TX. I haven't lived in Fayetteville since 2000 when my father retired. If you were 7th Group at that time most people remember him because he coughed up a bullet that was stuck in his lung after he was shot.

Joker
01-29-2015, 20:34
... he coughed up a bullet that was stuck in his lung after he was shot.

I was the one that told your mom he had been shot.

CHUNT
01-30-2015, 08:29
Buzz?

Richard
01-30-2015, 09:37
I'll be danged. I never heard of that one, but here it is:

Pat

I never saw them until I was in the ACSCMO at 21st TAACOM who had the 37th Ttansportation Command (USAREUR's "Red Ball Express") - they couldn't shoot worth a damn but they could drive the s**t out of those Freightliners and HETs.

Richard