PDA

View Full Version : Win 308 vs Win 7mm


SF_BHT
01-10-2015, 14:18
I am looking at getting a new bolt gun and have always wanted a Winchester Model 70.

I have decided on getting a Model 70 Super Grade Bolt action rifle. My Delema is deciding on 7mm vs Win 308.

I probaly will only be shooting 200-500 yds but want the ability to reach out at longer ranges. Being out here in the wide open SW I may need to do some real long shots.

It has been a while since I have looked at a new hunting rifle so here I am. I have a few rifles in 308 but have always thought a 7mm would be a good round.

What say you? Pro's and Con's for each would be appreciated.

:munchin

Rob_Frey
01-10-2015, 15:07
Are you thinking about getting the 7mm-08?

Brush Okie
01-10-2015, 15:14
Pros of 7mm (mag?)
flatter shooting
better BC on bullets then .308
longer range

Pros on 308
Cheaper ammo
less recoil
more selection of bullets if you reload.

7mm mag is belted mag some folks do not like that. If you want a 7mm mag ballistics and reload look at the 280. That is 7mm mag ballistics or at least close. It is a 30-06 case necked down to a 7mm no belt to deal with if that is an issue. 7mm-08 is a great round as well. Not the kick of a 7mag but better BC etc of 308 longer range flatter shooting (on paper) and less recoil.

Dusty
01-10-2015, 15:30
You gonna be shooting 150's?

craigepo
01-10-2015, 15:53
You are in 7mm mag country out there. Load 120's for smaller stuff, load it up for elk size.

I have both, like them both. If I could only have one bolt gun, it would be the 7mm mag.

SF_BHT
01-10-2015, 15:56
Are you thinking about getting the 7mm-08?

Yes that is the round.

SF_BHT
01-10-2015, 16:00
You are in 7mm mag country out there. Load 120's for smaller stuff, load it up for elk size.

I have both, like them both. If I could only have one bolt gun, it would be the 7mm mag.

That is what I have been thinking of. I do have some other bolt guns in 308.

Cost is one thing I have been looking at but after you get your loads worked out you do not have that much cost. If I want to just blow rounds I will use another gun and office ammo:eek:

Dusty
01-10-2015, 16:44
I'm confused. Are you talking about 7mm Rem Mag or 7mm-08?

The Reaper
01-10-2015, 17:03
From a bolt gun, the .308 will do almost anything the 7mm Rem Mag will, for less money and with a longer barrel life.

Hunting bullets in these calibers are not designed to expand well below a certain velocity, and you MIGHT get another 100 meters or so at extreme range with the 7mm Mag. IMHO, those are ranges where very few of us should be shooting at game animals.

If you are not reloading, the 7mm Rem Mag is going to hurt your wallet.

To me, if you are considering a 7mm RM you might also consider the .300 Win Mag. The 7-08, the 6.5s, .260, .270, .280, and 284 could also be in the same range, and the .30-'06 is probably King.

What are you hunting, and at what ranges can you reliably drop the animal with the round you choose?

If you are on a hunting trip and walk into a hardware store in the middle of nowhere, I would bet that you can probably find .30-'06, .308, and .30-30 loads on the shelf. The others, like the 7mm Rem Mag, maybe not.

Me? I would go with the 308. Just my.02. YMMV.

TR

P.S.- The 7-08 is a good round, lighter recoiling because of the lighter bullets, and flatter shooting. It is a little harder to find ammo for. The .308 will use much heavier bullets and launch them farther, and would be a better choice for larger game, IMHO. Both are great rounds and I love the Model 70.

Peregrino
01-10-2015, 17:21
I recommend giving some consideration to 7mm WSM. It'll handle bullets up to 175gr (match), has a short action, does not use a belted case, and has some ballistic and practical advantages for hand loaders. I'm very happy with the ones I've shot which is why my gunsmith is working up a W70 in 7mm WSM for me. The entire family of WSM cartridges is underrated because after the initial hype, most people with established collections in the "standard" cartridges went "Ho hum" and lost interest because they don't appear to be a quantum improvement. For someone who has not already committed to the belted magnums, they can be a fantastic option. They ARE a quantum advancement over anything based on a .308 or 30-06 case and from a holistic perspective I believe they have significant advantages over the belted magnums. If I hadn't already had a R700 LA my father gave me (started life as a 7mm RUM - stupid expensive to shoot) and 1400 rounds of 300WM brass, I would never have built a 300 WM rifle; I'd have gone straight to the WSMs.

MR2
01-10-2015, 17:48
Long thoughtful reply deleted by unnecessarily short Forum timeout. n||m

Dusty
01-10-2015, 18:01
If you're shooting 150's in a 7mm Rem Mag out to 500 yards, you may as well stick with .308. Only a few clicks difference on your elevation dial.
At 1000, my Brother used to outshoot me rat reglar with this 7mm.

SF_BHT
01-10-2015, 21:25
I'm confused. Are you talking about 7mm Rem Mag or 7mm-08?

Sorry for the confusion. The Mod 70 comes in 7mm-08 Rem

Here is the gun. http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/itemdetail.asp?id=535203218&mid=535203

Everyone are bringing up good points. The cost of ammo is not going to be a factor but availabity is if we ge into a shortage again of ammo.

I like the long range specs and match specs for the 7mm-08
But the 308 is what all of my other long guns have. I got rid of my all but 1 9mm pistol in the quest to reduce my requirement to have multi types of ammo.

Looking at elk and goats from 300-500 meters.

TR good points on what rounds will be on the shelf out in the country side. Had not thought of that yet. The 30-06 and 308 are looking better from that aspect.

Keep the comments coming they are knocking out the cobwebs and getting me to think about other aspects...:munchin

Brush Okie
01-10-2015, 21:45
As an all around round I like to 30-06 best. Ammo is everywhere usually, better ballistics than 308 but not the recoil of the 300wm. Best balance IMHO. Here is a good serise of article on the old 06

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/11/cartridges-logical-30-06.html


http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com.es/2011/04/cartridges-sibling-rivalry-308-vs-30-06.html

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011/02/cartridges-30-06-update.html

Flagg
01-10-2015, 21:56
I like the 7mm-08.

A few of my peers have them and really rate it as a caliber for meat hunting way down here.

But I am in a "12 step program" to reduce calibers in the armory to a more realistic number.

I reckon even with reloading it's still another set of dies/recipes and shooting dope to deal with.

Even though I'm really passionate about and enjoy hunting/shooting, I am all about "economy of effort" with the toolbox.

Especially when I might be reaching the point soon of having fewer days left than I've had so far. ;)

I think if the performance difference was far greater between the two I would look harder at it as being worth the incremental work required.

craigepo
01-10-2015, 22:51
Looking at elk and goats from 300-500 meters.



Man, those elk suck up lead. Goats, I've never shot one, but I've heard they are very heavy boned.

I put a 150 grain .308 round through both of a bull elk's lung's. Took two more shots to put him down. When I dressed him, the bullet (Sierra game king) had mushroomed perfectly, and put a hole the size of a Skoal can through the lungs. The problem is, an elk's lungs together are about the size of a car hood. I had effectively only given him a slight case of pneumonia.

If you get on youtube, you can take a look at some of the 1000-yard shots guys are pulling on elk with 7mm mags. The ballsitic coefficient of the 7mm is just out of this world. If you get the muzzle velocity above 3000 fps, it is one of the best long range rifles you'll find.

Dusty
01-11-2015, 07:32
You've got and have had plenty of .308's. Might be time to max out another round...

SF_BHT
01-11-2015, 10:48
You've got and have had plenty of .308's. Might be time to max out another round...

This is why I am torn by what round to go with....... Decisions decisions.......

Glad to see you back:D

Going over ballistic charts now to get more data.

Javadrinker
01-11-2015, 11:25
I'll throw in the 270. Probably going to be on the shelves of most stores, and the ballistics are not that much different than the 7mm Mag.

Peregrino
01-11-2015, 11:46
I'll throw in the 270. Probably going to be on the shelves of most stores, and the ballistics are not that much different than the 7mm Mag.

Allow me to "amplify" your statement: "A reloader, given competent load development with appropriate bullet selection and some of the newer powders, can achieve ballistic performance comparable to lighter magnum loads". Same thing is very possible comparing 30-06 and 300WM. Since its introduction the parent 30-06 case has lent itself to a number of versatile rounds.

Dusty
01-11-2015, 11:56
Allow me to "amplify" your statement: "A reloader, given competent load development with appropriate bullet selection and some of the newer powders, can achieve ballistic performance comparable to lighter magnum loads". Same thing is very possible comparing 30-06 and 300WM. Since its introduction the parent 30-06 case has lent itself to a number of versatile rounds.

IMO, the -06 is the best all-around rifle bullet for this continent up to about 600 yards, but I like 180's.

To hunt mountain goats, though, I'd use .300 win mag; I'd think opportunities for shots at 1000 or greater would be fairly common, with elevation and wind problems being de rigeur...

Brush Okie
01-11-2015, 12:05
This is why I am torn by what round to go with....... Decisions decisions.......

Glad to see you back:D

Going over ballistic charts now to get more data.

Let me help you decision. The right decision is to buy one of each. :lifter

Peregrino
01-11-2015, 12:13
Let me help you decision. The right decision is to buy one of each. :lifter

LMAO! That's the first thing you've posted lately that I can unequivocally agree with.

MR2
01-11-2015, 15:18
LOL +2

Rob_Frey
01-11-2015, 17:57
Sorry for the confusion. The Mod 70 comes in 7mm-08 Rem

Here is the gun. http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/itemdetail.asp?id=535203218&mid=535203

Everyone are bringing up good points. The cost of ammo is not going to be a factor but availabity is if we ge into a shortage again of ammo.

I like the long range specs and match specs for the 7mm-08
But the 308 is what all of my other long guns have. I got rid of my all but 1 9mm pistol in the quest to reduce my requirement to have multi types of ammo.

Looking at elk and goats from 300-500 meters.

TR good points on what rounds will be on the shelf out in the country side. Had not thought of that yet. The 30-06 and 308 are looking better from that aspect.

Keep the comments coming they are knocking out the cobwebs and getting me to think about other aspects...:munchin


The 7mm-08 is a good cartridge, I personally hunt with a .260 Rem., which is the 7mm-08 (.284") necked down to .264" diameter.

In looking at the list of cartridges the Model 70 Super Grade is available in, I would choose 300 WSM. But that's just me.

If you want something in 7mm, go with the 7mm Rem. Mag., you can find that all over too. Gives you better long range capability too.

Badger52
01-11-2015, 19:32
Have had, and handloaded for, this round for quite awhile. It's incredibly easy to get consistent accuracy out of, with a variety of powders. Most 7-08 chambers are a little short so, although there are bigger .284 bullet weights, typically 150gr is about your limit while keeping the velocity up unless you have a long-action magazine box and can open things up in the barrel a touch. My favorite all-around (and not spendy) bullet is Hornady's simple 139gr boat-tail, same bullet used by the old Western cartridge company way back, like eons ago in their 7x57 ammo. Even till recently I've found boxes of those very consistent in weight throughout many boxes. If not, a 140gr Ballistic Tip performs wonderfully. My powder of choice is Win 760, but YMMV.

For some more velocity you can do the 120gr Ballistic Tip as well. That particular 120 is not just for varmints. I talked to Nosler a few years ago and, because hot-rodders were loading to disintegration-velocity in their blasters, they stiffened up that bullet and it makes a very fine "across the field" deer round. My MV's are down about 175fps from published due to the 20" bbl on my 'meat' gun but for white-tails it's not noticeable. From a M-70 you should have no problem getting good velocity out of your loads; the accuracy will take care of itself if you do your part. A great choice & for most 'sporting' purposes would take it over a .308 hands-down. Very pleasant to shoot as well if there are younger ones that might use it.

All that said, there is no way it's going to compete with any of the 7mm mags in terms of real long-distance work, in a rifle of practical size. It was designed as a modern replacement with 7x57 ballistics to avoid "hotting up" a 7x57 (great round) and having someone stick it in their beat up 19th century gun and then stick gun-makers with lawsuits.

In a mag nowadays I'd probably go with the WSM, but that's just my dislike of belted cases, unnecessary in most rounds.

Shopping for a new rifle; what a neat dilemma! :)

mark46th
01-13-2015, 15:12
I have a Model 70 in .270 Win. I use it on hogs with 140 gr bullets. Kill's 'em dead . I reload the 140gr but I also use 130 Rem Corelokt for antelope, also dead right now. The ammo is available anywhere, inexpensive and very accurate.

doctom54
01-13-2015, 17:57
I have a Model 70 in .270 Win. I use it on hogs with 140 gr bullets. Kill's 'em dead . I reload the 140gr but I also use 130 Rem Corelokt for antelope, also dead right now. The ammo is available anywhere, inexpensive and very accurate.

I concur on the .270 as an excellent choice

Well in the .308 group I've got a .243, .260, .308 and a .338 federal.
In the 30-06 group I have a .270, several 30-06s and a .35 Whelen.

For the past 3 years I've only used the .270 for hogs, deer and coyotes.
(I'm using the federal 130 gr Fusion since all my reloading stuff has been in storage)

During the past two times there were ammo shortages .270 could be found almost anywhere.

Badger52
01-13-2015, 20:21
Re-reading, if you're looking at elk at that distance you really do want to be throwing a .284 of 160gr or so, or a .308 180gr - of stout bullet construction. Both of those can be had with great BC's & outstanding ballistics. Otherwise it's into 300WSM territory (again my prejudice against belted cases) and they do bark notably more if that's a concern but they can sure reach out there. Judicious handloading will get a 7mm Rem Mag or 30-06 there no problem. Also, from lots of rounds out of the barrel on both of these (my heart is with a 30-06) both those calibers have some really good factory loads available that do what they say & still yield a couple thou in energy out at 300 where it matters. (Hornady's 162gr 7mm RM load is superb & consistent.)

IMO the .270 is a wonderful cartridge but only if handloaded. During a period owning a lovely M70 Featherweight I did quite a bit of chrono work and collected once-fired brass the old-fashioned way, as well as a binder full of data. Wonderful as it is, in most factory loadings, the .270 is one of the most over-rated rounds from its published ballistic figures in a hunting size rifle whose data ever got published (many decades ago). Just my $.02 but based on actually shooting it, alot.

Dusty
01-13-2015, 20:29
Get a HCAR. 1 MOA @ 900 meters with 30 round mags.

Badger52
01-13-2015, 20:36
Get a HCAR. 1 MOA @ 900 meters with 30 round mags.Helluva "social/ranch" rifle though, damn. :D

SF_BHT
01-13-2015, 22:26
Get a HCAR. 1 MOA @ 900 meters with 30 round mags.

Looks nice but at that price point I can get 3 different Model 70's

Dusty
01-14-2015, 06:18
Looks nice but at that price point I can get 3 different Model 70's

You're thinking about goats, Bob. I'm talkin' Mongolian Horde.

mojaveman
01-14-2015, 20:12
Got a hold of a used but immaculate Model 70 in '06 last year. I like the .308 because of the recoil and because it's a military cartridge but I also like the '06 because I like the balance of a long action better than a short one. Agree with a few of the others that the '06 is a premier round.

SF_BHT
01-14-2015, 20:44
I have been checking with local gun shops and boy do they want to gouge youto process a Mod 70 if I order it or gouge you if you buy it through them.

Went to the base BX and they are contacting Winchester to see what they can get it for me. Normally 10-20% less than on the street.

Still torn between the 06 and 7mm. If it is 7mm it will be the Mag round......

The Reaper
01-14-2015, 21:35
I have been checking with local gun shops and boy do they want to gouge youto process a Mod 70 if I order it or gouge you if you buy it through them.

Went to the base BX and they are contacting Winchester to see what they can get it for me. Normally 10-20% less than on the street.

Still torn between the 06 and 7mm. If it is 7mm it will be the Mag round......

Find a local dealer who will do the paperwork for $20 or so.

Go to Gunbroker or a big dealer, order the gun and pay for it yourself.

Have the dealer send his FFL or you get a copy and mail it to the seller.

Go fill out the usual paperwork and pick up the rifle.

Easy peasy.

TR

Peregrino
01-14-2015, 22:33
I have been checking with local gun shops and boy do they want to gouge youto process a Mod 70 if I order it or gouge you if you buy it through them.

Went to the base BX and they are contacting Winchester to see what they can get it for me. Normally 10-20% less than on the street.

Still torn between the 06 and 7mm. If it is 7mm it will be the Mag round......

If you do go magnum, give serious thought to the WSM. I believe it's a better round overall because it achieves everything the 7mmRM does in a lighter rifle with less powder. Yes - lighter has it's trade-offs but if I'm lugging it over hill and dale for that one shot that brings home the bacon, I'll gladly suffer a little more felt recoil. NTM - the rifle the gunsmith is building for me is intended for 1000 yd competition. I've shot his and the accuracy is phenomenal.

SF_BHT
01-14-2015, 22:33
Find a local dealer who will do the paperwork for $20 or so.

Go to Gunbroker or a big dealer, order the gun and pay for it yourself.

Have the dealer send his FFL or you get a copy and mail it to the seller.

Go fill out the usual paperwork and pick up the rifle.

Easy peasy.

TR

Well I am in NM and I went to 3 stores and they all wanted 80-120 to do it.......They want to make more than the usual fee.

I can buy it from Winchester with a discount and beat Gunbroker. Will wait to see what the base can do. They will waive the fee if I have it shipped ther. He thinks he can get it at a good price. I am not in a hurry as I still have to get a scope....... That will be the next thread :eek:

Hell lets just ask for input. What say you for a good mid priced scope for a Model 70 for a near sighted FOG. MIL Dot is what I want.......

Any recomendations ?

SF_BHT
01-14-2015, 22:41
If you do go magnum, give serious thought to the WSM. I believe it's a better round overall because it achieves everything the 7mmRM does in a lighter rifle with less powder. Yes - lighter has it's trade-offs but if I'm lugging it over hill and dale for that one shot that brings home the bacon, I'll gladly suffer a little more felt recoil. NTM - the rifle the gunsmith is building for me is intended for 1000 yd competition. I've shot his and the accuracy is phenomenal.

Weight and recoil are not an issue.

What is better in you experience 7mm REM Mag or 300 WSM?
Never shot a 300 WSM

Peregrino
01-14-2015, 23:31
Weight and recoil are not an issue.

What is better in you experience 7mm REM Mag or 300 WSM?
Never shot a 300 WSM

My 300 is a WM. That choice was made for me because the rifle was a LA and I had ready access to the brass. 1400 rounds of once fired match brass is a) a lifetime supply, and b) worth almost what the rifle is. As for the 7mm REM mag, it has better ballistics but less choice WRT bullets - 30 cal really is king when it comes to bullet choices. My 7mm (when the gunsmith gets finished with it will be a 7mm WSM and it'll primarily be for long range shooting with 175 gr. SMKs. HTH.

mark46th
01-15-2015, 08:58
For a scope? $500 range, The usual suspects- Leupold VX3, Nikon Monarch, Bushnell, et al. I have an older Nikon 3-9X40 Buckmaster on my .270 that has never let me down.

Dusty
01-15-2015, 09:15
For a scope? $500 range, The usual suspects- Leupold VX3, Nikon Monarch, Bushnell, et al. I have an older Nikon 3-9X40 Buckmaster on my .270 that has never let me down.

Yep. I like old Loopy's or scopes with Japanese glass.

craigepo
01-15-2015, 10:43
If you do go magnum, give serious thought to the WSM. I believe it's a better round overall because it achieves everything the 7mmRM does in a lighter rifle with less powder. Yes - lighter has it's trade-offs but if I'm lugging it over hill and dale for that one shot that brings home the bacon, I'll gladly suffer a little more felt recoil. NTM - the rifle the gunsmith is building for me is intended for 1000 yd competition. I've shot his and the accuracy is phenomenal.

That .300 Winchester short mag is a heckuva round. Magnum ballistics with a short action rifle. A bunch easier to lug up a big hill. A buddy had one built, and it is an elk-whacking machine.

As to scopes, hmmm.

SF_BHT
01-15-2015, 11:37
For a scope? $500 range, The usual suspects- Leupold VX3, Nikon Monarch, Bushnell, et al. I have an older Nikon 3-9X40 Buckmaster on my .270 that has never let me down.

Mark you were reading my mind. Price point and the Leupold VX3

mark46th
01-15-2015, 17:44
Good scope. I have heard good things(on this board) about the new, higher end Bushnells, too. But it is hard to go wrong with a Leupold, service and quality are dependable.

Badger52
01-15-2015, 19:16
Good scope. I have heard good things(on this board) about the new, higher end Bushnells, too. But it is hard to go wrong with a Leupold, service and quality are dependable.Amen. One vendor told me the newer Bushnells are what the old Bausch & Lomb line used to be in quality & pricepoint. But, the benchmark for me remains Leupold. Anecdote:

Owned lots of Leupolds over the years. Only had to use the company once. A much-loved short-tube Vari-X III 1.75-6 on my 7-08 carbine (with 20yrs of hard use) apparently lost a tooth or two inside. (1 click windage suddenly started moving POI 3/4".) Sent them a target & the scope after talking to a guy. Counting the trip both ways the scope was only gone 10 days. Came back, gears replaced, purged/re-filled & complete post-production check; no charge of course. It's like having a Zippo on top of a rifle. They will continue to get my money.

:cool:

frostfire
01-16-2015, 00:32
Get a HCAR. 1 MOA @ 900 meters with 30 round mags.

aw shoot, for that kind of price point, he'd be better off going for the Omen Match .300 WinMag (comes in 7mm and .338 too) or the Noreen .338 Bad News :D
http://nemoarms.com/portfolio/omen_match2/
http://www.onlylongrange.com/badnews.asp

Never shot the Bad News, but I can speak for the Omen. Tested that exact model last year and oh man, 400 movers became literary childs play. They got the young ladies (spouse, daughters, etc.) in the audience who hardly ever shot precision pull that exact feat. The muzzle brake and spring at the bolt's end made the recoil like 5.56 if not less. I'm sure folks at R37 can pitch in on the rifle's tremendous shootability...but boy, it's looooong and the ammo price... :(

Sinister
01-23-2015, 20:21
7 Rem Mag is a great choice if you're elevating from 7.62.

One of my buddies I am mentoring uses a surplus Czech Mauser chambered in 7 Mag, topped with a 10X Super Sniper. We've shot it at a mile against steel E-types, and he dropped a 4X4 Utah elk this year at 354 laser-ranged yards.

My brother uses a 7mm Winchester Laredo, their spin on Remington's Sendero.

A muzzle brake can make a 7 Mag a pussycat.

It doesn't have to be expensive to be effective.

SF_BHT
03-10-2015, 21:13
Well today I was surprised by a phone call at 0900. On the other end was a young lady telling me my New Mod 70 had arrived. I was taken back as it was supposed to take 3+ months when I ordered it from Winchester.

Well I went with the Super Grade 7mm Rem Mag. She looks great but still naked.

Arrived so quick I have not purchased a scope. Still trying to decide on the scope.........

Leopold
Super Sniper
Vortex

Just have to decide on which manufacturer and their model. Last time I purchased a scope was over 15+ years ago and boy have they changed.

Wanting to spend 500-600 for it.........:munchin

PSM
03-10-2015, 21:31
She looks great but still naked.


That's usually a good thing. :eek: ;)

Pat

Peregrino
03-10-2015, 21:49
----- Arrived so quick I have not purchased a scope. Still trying to decide on the scope.........

Leopold
Super Sniper
Vortex

Just have to decide on which manufacturer and their model. Last time I purchased a scope was over 15+ years ago and boy have they changed.

Wanting to spend 500-600 for it.........:munchin

MOO - I recommend Leopold, Vortex, and SS in that order. I own five Loopys, I've played with several Vortex, and I used to own a SS. Unfortunately, the only one that will even come close to your price point is the SS and it will NOT maximize the potential of your rifle. To do that, you're going to have to (more than) double your price point and look for "friends of the industry" deals. This is a case of you get what you pay for. Good luck.

mojaveman
03-10-2015, 21:50
Well today I was surprised by a phone call at 0900. On the other end was a young lady telling me my New Mod 70 had arrived. I was taken back as it was supposed to take 3+ months when I ordered it from Winchester.

Well I went with the Super Grade 7mm Rem Mag. She looks great but still naked.

Arrived so quick I have not purchased a scope. Still trying to decide on the scope.........

Leopold
Super Sniper
Vortex

Just have to decide on which manufacturer and their model. Last time I purchased a scope was over 15+ years ago and boy have they changed.

Wanting to spend 500-600 for it.........:munchin

Leupold fan here. Have bought about five of them over the years.

For what you want to spend take a look at the VX-R 3-9X 40mm.

MR2
03-10-2015, 23:26
Arrived so quick I have not purchased a scope. Still trying to decide on the scope.........

Leopold
Super Sniper
Vortex

Just have to decide on which manufacturer and their model. Last time I purchased a scope was over 15+ years ago and boy have they changed.

Wanting to spend 500-600 for it.........:munchin

What do you intend to use the rifle for, that would give a clearer indication.

I think you could find a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 Riflescope for $650 locally.
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-6-24x50-riflescope-with-ebr-1-moa-reticle

SF_BHT
03-11-2015, 00:40
What do you intend to use the rifle for, that would give a clearer indication.

I think you could find a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 Riflescope for $650 locally.
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-6-24x50-riflescope-with-ebr-1-moa-reticle

you are reading my mind with that model. I looked at that one here in town but they wanted $745 for it.

The Leupold VX-3 4.5-14x40mm Adj. Obj. CDS is the one from them that I have been leaning toward.

The Super Sniper I have never used and was going of what people have said about them.

Like Peregrino noted I may have to move up my price point........

I plan on killing some steel this summer and hunting up north in the fall for either Elk or Mule Dear. Will enter the lottery for a ram but who knows if I win. I need long shot capability here in the mountains.

The Reaper
03-11-2015, 09:24
I tell people that I would spend at least as much as the rifle cost on the scope.

Leupold has a broad range of products that range from the inexpensive fixed powers to the Mark 8s that cost more than $3,000. To a very large degree, there are no free lunches, and you get what you paid for.

More money means more capability, though a 1,000 yard benchrest scope may not be the best for brush hunting, regardless of how much it costs. Since you plan to use it for domestic hunting, you should probably go for a mid-range scope (in both magnification and price).

The Leupolds are made in the USA. Some of the Vortex scopes are US made, and some are made in the Philippines. I like the high end Bushnells as well, which are made in the US. IOR Valdatas are nice, but very heavy and are made in Romania. I am not a fan of the Nikons, which are made in Asia. The Super Snipers are low to middling quality and are made in Asia as well. The Euro brands start around $1,000, and go up quickly.

I would recommend something in the 3-15x range (plus or minus a few power) for maximum hunting flexibility. Pick a reticle that you like and know how to use. I generally avoid objectives larger than 50mm, except on spotting scopes. The limiting light gathering factor is not really the diameter of the objective, and the larger objectives make mounting problematic, and good stock cheek welds damn near impossible. I do like larger tubes (30mm and up) for their usually significantly greater elevation adjustments. I think Leupold is the brand I would be looking for in your price range. With that, you have a scope that should weather the conditions and provide sufficient magnification for hunting (and banging steel) within the range of your rifle. You can also dial it down enough to be able to use it to scan for game or engage something at closer ranges. If you are looking for an optic for two-legged game or 1,000 yard plus shooting, my recommendations would be different.

Don't forget to get quality rings and mounts, and have them leveled and LocTited before you zero.

Hope that helps.

TR

craigepo
03-11-2015, 09:38
I have a Leupold 4.5X14 with a Boone and Crockett reticle that I am going to trade off. The scope shoots better than I can, and the reticle works really well for fast target acquisition. The only thing I don't like about it is low-light shooting. It just doesn't gather light like my Zeiss.

I bet the Leupold scopes with the 50-56mm objective would be better on the light gathering issue.

Brush Okie
03-11-2015, 09:42
I have a Leupold 4.5X14 with a Boone and Crockett reticle that I am going to trade off. The scope shoots better than I can, and the reticle works really well for fast target acquisition. The only thing I don't like about it is low-light shooting. It just doesn't gather light like my Zeiss.

I bet the Leupold scopes with the 50-56mm objective would be better on the light gathering issue.

I have a 4.5-14x56 VX3L and yes very good light gathering capability. I do prefer a basic duplex reticule to reduce clutter. I also know how to use the duplex as a range finder if I need one.

MR2
03-11-2015, 18:00
FYI, local out-the-door prices:

Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 $753
Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56 $2286

Based on those quotes (about 32% off list), I would guess that a Vortex PST 4-16x50 would go for around $600, $750+ if you want first focal plane.

That would get you game out to 6-800m I would think.

SF_BHT
03-11-2015, 18:07
FYI, local out-the-door prices:

Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 $753
Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56 $2286

Based on those quotes (about 32% off list), I would guess that a Vortex PST 4-16x50 would go for around $600, $750+ if you want first focal plane.

That would get you game out to 6-800m I would think.

Good point.... I am going to check each out Saturday and make a decision. What ever it is, it will be made in the USA

SF_BHT
03-11-2015, 19:04
FYI, local out-the-door prices:

Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 $753
Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56 $2286

Based on those quotes (about 32% off list), I would guess that a Vortex PST 4-16x50 would go for around $600, $750+ if you want first focal plane.

That would get you game out to 6-800m I would think.

do you have a link to where you can get the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 for those prices? they are way more here than what you quoted..... The first focal plane looks good if I could get it for that price...

MR2
03-11-2015, 20:11
It is a friend of a friend deal. The friend buys a lot from the local dealer and we benefit from his volume discount.

Herdbull
03-12-2015, 08:31
Vortex 6-24x50 Viper PST 30mm Rifle Scope

Stock # - PST624S1M
•Matte
•Illuminated EBR-1
•30mm
•5 MRAD Turrets
•Side Focus
•.1 MRAD
$749.95


http://swfa.com/Viper-PST-C2860.aspx

SF_BHT
06-13-2015, 18:56
Well I finally finished putting all the parts together. Can not wait to get it to the range and sight it in. 110yd laser bore sight is done and rounds loaded.

Winchester MOD 70 7mm Rem Mag Super Grade
30760

30761

30762
Voretex PST 6-24x50 FFP EBR2C MOA scope

30763

MR2
06-13-2015, 20:08
Now that is a beautiful thing!

SF_BHT
06-14-2015, 11:30
Now that is a beautiful thing!

Thanks

I like real wood much better than synthetic stocks..... Do not have to jump or dive a long gun in anymore so no advantage for me going synthetic. When you shoulder this SuperGrade gun you just feel the quality and shit it just looks good.

Team Sergeant
06-14-2015, 11:44
Thanks

I like real wood much better than synthetic stocks..... Do not have to jump or dive a long gun in anymore so no advantage for me going synthetic. When you shoulder this SuperGrade gun you just feel the quality and shit it just looks good.

Nice looking piece!
(I love real wood too, but, I go synthetic for accuracy.)

Brush Okie
06-14-2015, 11:46
Very nice. I like the Winchester Action a lot. Be sure to give us a range report when you get a chance to shoot it.

Sdiver
06-14-2015, 11:56
Thanks

I like real wood much better than synthetic stocks..... Do not have to jump or dive a long gun in anymore so no advantage for me going synthetic. When you shoulder this SuperGrade gun you just feel the quality and shit it just looks good.

B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L work of art B.
That rifle sure is pretty.
.

Nice looking piece!
(I love real wood too, but, I go synthetic for accuracy.)

TS,
You have peaked my curiosity.
Being the noob that I am, how does having a synthetic stock increase ones accuracy?

x SF med
06-14-2015, 14:33
Well I finally finished putting all the parts together. Can not wait to get it to the range and sight it in. 110yd laser bore sight is done and rounds loaded.

Winchester MOD 70 7mm Rem Mag Super Grade
30760

30761

30762
Voretex PST 6-24x50 FFP EBR2C MOA scope

30763

Brother... I'll trade you my 1956 Model 70 Featherweight in .308 for that.:rolleyes::D

craigepo
06-14-2015, 14:51
That is a really good looking rifle. Really good.

Now that you need to go shoot it:

I mentioned earlier the 120 grain Nosler that the 7mm mag guys here shoot. I'll add a link to a forum discussion on the load below. My gun will put 3 in a skoal can at 300 yards with this load, and I think the muzzle velocity is between 3300-3400 fps. BC on that bullet is out of this world. If you load some, let me know how it works out.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/120-grain-nosler-ballistic-tip-velocities-135863/

SF_BHT
06-14-2015, 15:37
That is a really good looking rifle. Really good.

Now that you need to go shoot it:

I mentioned earlier the 120 grain Nosler that the 7mm mag guys here shoot. I'll add a link to a forum discussion on the load below. My gun will put 3 in a skoal can at 300 yards with this load, and I think the muzzle velocity is between 3300-3400 fps. BC on that bullet is out of this world. If you load some, let me know how it works out.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/120-grain-nosler-ballistic-tip-velocities-135863/

I will try that load a little later. I actually have two boxes of 120's to reload when ready.

I am going to work on my first rounds for my base line here using Berger 168 grain.

Team Sergeant
06-14-2015, 22:45
B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L work of art B.
That rifle sure is pretty.
.



TS,
You have peaked my curiosity.
Being the noob that I am, how does having a synthetic stock increase ones accuracy?

Much to learn young padawan.

There is nothing wrong with a wooden stock as long as it is kept dry and out of real humid conditions.

I'm a little OCD when it comes to accuracy.

Sdiver
06-14-2015, 23:06
Much to learn young padawan.

There is nothing wrong with a wooden stock as long as it is kept dry and out of real humid conditions.

I'm a little OCD when it comes to accuracy.

Yes, yes .. much to learn.

Never even crossed my mind about warped/warping of the wood/stock.

Thank you Oh-Jeffie-Wan ...

PSM
06-14-2015, 23:14
Very purdy there, B! Good job.

I love wood, but I get so pissed at myself if I mar it. And hell no, no one else gets to touch it. But that's a good thing. ;)

Pat

Team Sergeant
06-15-2015, 08:13
Yes, yes .. much to learn.

Never even crossed my mind about warped/warping of the wood/stock.

Thank you Oh-Jeffie-Wan ...

A "sniper" you are not. ;)

Free floating barrel, best.

Synthetic stock, best.

First focal plane, best.

Hand loaded ammo, best.

That said, there are many rifles that shoot sub-MOA and have none of these features. Most cannot shoot past the rifles capabilities anyway.