When will the F-35 Madness Stop??

[JJ_BPK]

Someone with some testicle fortitude has to stop the madness.

This plane is a complete failure..



Luke AFB changes refueling truck color, mitigates F-35 shutdowns, By Staff Sgt. Luther Mitchell Jr., 56th Fighter Wing Public Affairs / Published December 06, 2014

LUKE AIR FORCE BASE, Ariz. (AFNS) -- The 56th Logistics Readiness Squadron recently added a new fuel truck to its fleet designed to improve mission effectiveness and safety on the flightline.

However, it’s not really a new fuel truck, but an old fuel truck with its tank painted white.

What LRS Airmen once referred to as "Big Green," the “new” truck with a white fuel tank has been a little difficult for some to get used to; however, the change has a better purpose then just being aesthetically pleasing.

"We painted the refuelers white to reduce the temperature of fuel being delivered to the F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter," said Senior Airman Jacob Hartman, a 56th LRS fuels distribution operator. "The F-35 has a fuel temperature threshold and may not function properly if the fuel temperature is too high, so after collaborating with other bases and receiving waiver approval from (the Air Education Training Command), we painted the tanks white."

With the change, the 56th LRS hopes for no delay in aircraft take-offs, all while maintaining mission sorties and ensuring pilots meet training requirements.

"It ensures the F-35 is able to meet its sortie requirements," said Chief Master Sgt. Ralph Resch, the 56th LRS fuels manager. "We are taking proactive measures to mitigate any possible aircraft shutdowns due to high fuel temperatures in the future."


http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/555558/luke-afb-changes-refueling-truck-color-mitigates-f-35-shutdowns.aspx

[Streck-Fu]

We could just put an ice cube in the Air Force's sippie cup.....

[blacksmoke]

How's the white tank going keep fuel cooler in the middle east or Africa?

[Streck-Fu]

Maybe using the fuel system as a heat sink for the avionics was not such a great idea.....

[Team Sergeant]

There's no way you're going to stop the F-35, even if it's a complete failure.

Luke AFB would shut down and Senator McCain would look like an idiot, oh, ok, more of an idiot.

[The Reaper]

The F-35 is a great CAS platform as long as all you need is one pass or strafing run (insufficient ammo storage for more than one) at twice the speed and twice the altitude of the Warthog with a damn sight less survivability.

After they lose the first couple doing CAS, they will keep them above 10,000' and for all intents and purposes, the AF CAS mission will be over.

TR

[PSM]

Let us compare.

BTW, the AF drivers say that it will not have CCIP (Constantly Computed Impact Point) capability, which may not be a good thing when it comes to CAS. Just saying. ;)

Pat

[geardo211]

Excerpt from 2015 National Defense Authorization Act... It also appears they're letting the Guard keep their Apaches. Interesting read to say the least. Unfortunately they're throwing another 5.8 Billion at the JSF. :eek:

-Prohibits the Air Force from retiring or preparing to retire any A-10 or Airborne Warning and Control Aircraft (AWACS), or making any significant changes in manning levels in FY15.

-Increases A-10 Operations and Maintenance funding by $256.5 million and AWACS Operations and Maintenance funding by $34.6 million.

http://www.armed-services.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/SASC%20NDAA%20markup%20release%2005-23-14.pdf

[TacOfficer]

Aside from the a-10 platform and the Flying PS4. (Aka F-35), I agree completely, listen to those that depend on it. If it ain't broke.........

At least, some enterprising individual came up with a cheap and possibly effective way to cool the fuel. I would have expected the AF to redesign and build a liquid nitrogen, super cooled, bells and whistles pick-up with a fuel tank for 2 million a piece.

BTW WTF: This new wiz bang mega million toy has no tolerance for the temp of fuel. It's like a kid saying "My soup is too hot!" It is beyond my comprehension.

[Ambush Master]

So how cool will the Fuel be while sitting iside the Flat Black/Grey AIRCRAFT?!?! Do they have Refrigeration units to keep it cool?!?! I don't believe they are using the Fuel Tanks as Heat Sinks.

Later
Martin

[Ambush Master]

Not if the oxygen system keeps malfunctioning. They will have to stay low.

Let me see they keep harping the future is LIC yet they build a fighter to fight WWIII. Granted I have no issue upgrading our fighter fleet, but lets at least get a good platform not an unreliable POS. Oh yea, during WWIII we will probably need CAS as well. Well what the hell do I know I don't work in the pentagon.

I thought the only O2 issue was with the F22 and not the F35.

Later
Martin

[The Reaper]

I thought the only O2 issue was with the F22 and not the F35.

Later
Martin

Concur.

I have not seen any reports of F-35 O2 issues.

Just the F-22.

TR

[PRB]

How's the white tank going keep fuel cooler in the middle east or Africa?

Luke AFB gets temps in the 115+ degree range in summer and much higher on air strips.

[PSM]

I don't believe they are using the Fuel Tanks as Heat Sinks.

Later
Martin

Oh, but they are:

The F-35 channels its strong thermal loads, accumulated by the powerful avionics and sub-systems on-board, as well as the engine, into its fuel. So really, the fuel works as a giant heat sink. If the fuel is already warm upon start-up, there is less capacity to exchange the heat from their aircraft's simmering systems. Therefore the jet must shut down or risk overheating. A clever design that most likely lightens up the jet and leaves extra room for weapons and fuel, but one that may have very little room for adaptation.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-f-35-cant-run-on-warm-gas-from-a-fuel-truck-that-sa-1668120726

Pat

[Badger52]

Let us compare.I love that chart, but then I'm unapologetically biased about the 'Hog.

This lack of CCIP is bad juju.
:rolleyes:

[JJ_BPK]

Why would they give the F-35 so little ammunition if it is intended to be used for close air support?

I think it was the PR bundling.

The Marines wanted CAS and VTAL
The Navy wanted carrier based
The AF didn't know what they wanted, but it had to be fast & expensive

At least that's what my insider tells me.. :munchin

[JJ_BPK]

I found an alternative to the F-35.

Carries just about as much for CAS.
Can do vertical landings.
Fast enough for the AF.
Uses new airborne launch craft, so the boys can get a good nights sleep on the way to the target AO.

AND cheaper. :lifter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIElAMEetys#t=60

:D

[atticus finch]

How's the white tank going keep fuel cooler in the middle east or Africa?

Anything painted in the color white absorbs less radiant heat from sunlight than does anything painted in black or very dark colors.

When ambient temps get to the century mark? It does make a difference.
I work outdoors & that's one of the reasons I keep my tools painted.

[JJ_BPK]

Seems strange that the testing of the F-35 and the current active wing is based in Edwards AFB, in the middle of the desert. Yet the problem is just now being recognized??


Edwards AFB average temperature
Month Temp (min) (max) (avg) Precipitation

January 07°F 072°F 44°F 1.4"
February 21°F 077°F 48°F 0.9"
March 23°F 090°F 54°F 0.6"
April 30°F 096°F 59°F 1.3"
May 41°F 104°F 72°F 0.2"
June 46°F 108°F 78°F 0.0"
July 59°F 113°F 86°F 0.3"
August 55°F 106°F 83°F 0.1"
September 43°F 106°F 75°F 0.1"
October 28°F 094°F 63°F 0.7"
November 19°F 084°F 53°F 0.2"
December 14°F 075°F 42°F 1.0"




:munchin

[Loadsmasher]

Excerpt from 2015 National Defense Authorization Act... It also appears they're letting the Guard keep their Apaches. Interesting read to say the least. Unfortunately they're throwing another 5.8 Billion at the JSF. :eek:

Not quite on the Apaches.

allows the Army to transfer not more than 48 Apache helicopters from the Army National Guard to the regular Army.

48 Apaches is a lot. Texas has been spending tons of political capital to try and keep them but this might be a nail in the coffin. Thanks for the link.

[BMT (RIP)]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/31/new-u-s-stealth-jet-can-t-fire-its-gun-until-2019.html

The JSF won’t be completely unarmed. It will still carry a pair of Raytheon AIM-120 AMRAAM long-range air-to-air missiles and a pair of bombs. Initially, it will be able to carry 1,000-pound satellite-guided bombs or 500-pound laser-guided weapons. But those weapons are of limited utility, especially during close-in fights.

Two bombs and no bullets!!
CAS ready?

BMT

[LarryW]

The F-35 is going to continue to be a polyp until the contractor is taken out of the acquisition decision process and the warfighter is put back in. You think that will happen any time soon??

[Streck-Fu]

The F-35 is going to continue to be a polyp until the contractor is taken out of the acquisition decision process and the warfighter is put back in. You think that will happen any time soon??

I'm not sure it's so much the contractor as it is the program office with too many chefs in the kitchen. When I was I was on active duty at the F/A-18 Weapons School, we had several meetings with some of the JSF engineers and loggies to discuss the issues with weapons loading on aircraft carriers....
There was a ton of issues related to safety practices that they were not even aware of .....

Not that it is related to the gun in particular but that program felt like a design by committee with few of those that would maintain, load, and support it being involved...

This seems to follow a similar track to the Osprey in that they will make it work at any cost.

[Peregrino]

Just remember - a camel is a horse designed by a committee.

[Badger52]

Just remember - a camel is a horse designed by a committee.Oh, yeah. About 2/3 down in this Atlantic article (http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/12/the-tragedy-of-the-american-military/383516/) is a nice interactive map showing F35 contractor distribution. Gaze in awe at the bak-sheesh liberally & globally spread, and the variety of stakeholders therein.
:munchin