NYPD to becom the San Angles PD of Demolition Man Fame

[UWOA (RIP)]

It's already started ...

NYPD is retraining its police force to avoid confrontation in enforcing the law. Officers are being counseled to talk the offender into cuffs .... More news to follow.

,

[SF_BHT]

It's already started ...

NYPD is retraining its police force to avoid confrontation in enforcing the law. Officers are being counseled to talk the offender into cuffs .... More news to follow.

,

Yeahhhhh Lets see how that is going to work...... NOT

There are going to be more COPs and Defendants Hurt.......

[Box]

STOP

...or I'll say 'stop' again

[x SF med]

STOP

...or I'll say 'stop' again


You didn't say please, so.... screw you... NO!!!!

[Remington Raidr]

with the cop saying "sir, please don't stab her in the abdomen again, you are not making things better for yourself. I understand she disrespected you but your response is way out of proportion to her transgression. Drop the knife, put your hands behind your back, and prepare to be handcuffed. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation . . .:rolleyes:

[ddoering]

Time to build a wall around NYC and not let anyone out.

[TacOfficer]

I've always been a big proponent of "Give them the police they want".

A nice story from our front lines by another officer:

I was out there tonight on Lake Shore drive while the white Protestors and a few Black Protestors were filming us and yelling. I seen a White Girl with her camera phone filming us. She was holding the camera in the air. Then some black guy grabbed the girl's phone and took off into the crowd. The girl then approached the cop next to me and stated that this black guy just grabbed her cell phone. The cop next to me raised his arms up and stated 'Don't call the police'. I started laughing and she turned to me and asked why I was laughing.I stated you don't like or want the police around so you go chase that black guy. She stated that's your job to protect me and my Property. I stated you are protesting me from doing my job. She walked away crying

[Team Sergeant]

Time to build a wall around NYC and not let anyone out.

I'd rather fill it with water.......:munchin

[The Reaper]

Time to build a wall around NYC and not let anyone out.

"Escape from New York"?

TR

[1stindoor]

Greetings and salutations citizen.

[UWOA (RIP)]

Greetings and salutations citizen.

You're no Sandra Bullock! I want Sandra Bullock!!!!

.

[mugwump]

I've always been a big proponent of "Give them the police they want".

A nice story from our front lines by another officer:

I was out there tonight on Lake Shore drive while the white Protestors and a few Black Protestors were filming us and yelling. I seen a White Girl with her camera phone filming us. She was holding the camera in the air. Then some black guy grabbed the girl's phone and took off into the crowd. The girl then approached the cop next to me and stated that this black guy just grabbed her cell phone. The cop next to me raised his arms up and stated 'Don't call the police'. I started laughing and she turned to me and asked why I was laughing.I stated you don't like or want the police around so you go chase that black guy. She stated that's your job to protect me and my Property. I stated you are protesting me from doing my job. She walked away crying

Great demonstration of professionalism. And you wonder why people have lost respect for the police.

[sinjefe]

Great demonstration of professionalism. And you wonder why people have lost respect for the police.

Maybe, but what do you expect? Cops suck.....until you need one.

[mugwump]

Maybe, but what do you expect? Cops suck.....until you need one.

I expect them to do their job with a sense of pride and professionalism and not to continue throwing fuel on the fire.

I was a total dirtbag reprobate in my youth and had a lot of contact with the police in my hometown. The cops were "the enemy" but I always respected them. When Officer Pierson, our juvi officer, died there were scores of us current-and ex-dirtbags who showed up to pay our respects.

That's what I expect because that's what we need.

[sinjefe]

I expect them to do their job with a sense of pride and professionalism and not to continue throwing fuel on the fire.

I was a total dirtbag reprobate in my youth and had a lot of contact with the police in my hometown. The cops were "the enemy" but I always respected them. When Officer Pierson, our juvi officer, died there were scores of us current-and ex-dirtbags who showed up to pay our respects.

That's what I expect because that's what we need.

In the abstract, I think you're right. But, while I do think that LE is becoming militarized, and that is a bad thing, I also believe that most of them (no idea what percent) are probably good folk who try and do the right thing. I have been pulled over by a fair share of cops over the years for traffic violations (my extent of LE dealings) and found every encounter to have been a professional one (even when I got a ticket).

I would have been thinking exactly what that officer said (in TacOfficers post), though I probably would have kept it to myself.

[UWOA (RIP)]

In the abstract, I think you're right. But, while I do think that LE is becoming militarized, and that is a bad thing, I also believe that most of them (no idea what percent) are probably good folk who try and do the right thing. I have been pulled over by a fair share of cops over the years for traffic violations (my extent of LE dealings) and found every encounter to have been a professional one (even when I got a ticket).

I would have been thinking exactly what that officer said (in TacOfficers post), though I probably would have kept it to myself.

I don't agree that there is a 'militarization' of police -- the police are a para-military organization, you just have to read the history and make sense of how it unfolds vis-a-vis the culture. That's why the police have uniforms and a rank structure. What's wrong is that police leadership does not seize on the strengths of the history. In a civil disturbance situation you don't go to a military style fatigue. No, you 'throw' police uniforms at the disturbance -- the sight of the symbol of authority (remember patrolling police are the only sign of government after 5 pm) gives mental pause to those who are rioting, more than a military fatigue uniform.

As for what mugwump said, I agree with him. While it's okay to think the way the officer did, it's not okay to act that way. That's where professionalism and morality come to bear. He can gripe later over a beer with his comrades, his duty was to pursue and apprehend the thief. At least that's what I taught when I was a Master Instructor for the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy and an adjunct professor of Criminal Justice for the University of Indianapolis.

Just my $ .02.

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[Old Dog New Trick]

I expect them to do their job with a sense of pride and professionalism and not to continue throwing fuel on the fire.


That's what I expect because that's what we need.

Are you referring to AG Holder's recent television performances?


Aside from that yes, the laughing officer should have composed himself better. Laughed later over cold beer!

[Old Dog New Trick]

I don't agree that there is a 'militarization' of police -- the police are a para-military organization, you just have to read the history and make sense of how it unfolds vis-a-vis the culture. That's why the police have uniforms and a rank structure. What's wrong is that police leadership does not seize on the strengths of the history. In a civil disturbance situation you don't go to a military style fatigue. No, you 'throw' police uniforms at the disturbance -- the sight of the symbol of authority (remember patrolling police are the only sign of government after 5 pm) gives mental pause to those who are rioting, more than a military fatigue uniform.

As for what mugwump said, I agree with him. While it's okay to think the way the officer did, it's not okay to act that way. That's where professionalism and morality come to bear. He can gripe later over a beer with his comrades, his duty was to pursue and apprehend the thief. At least that's what I taught when I was a Master Instructor for the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy and an adjunct professor of Criminal Justice for the University of Indianapolis.

Just my $ .02.

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Yes, the history of American police officer started as a civil defense force from recently departed soldiers or part-time soldiers.

As for the officer to charge after the phone snatcher into a crowd of angery protesters - one would hope his training officer taught him not to do that. Just saying. (And no, I'm not taking a shot at your current/prior position.)

[UWOA (RIP)]

Yes, the history of American police officer started as a civil defense force from recently departed soldiers or part-time soldiers.

As for the officer to charge after the phone snatcher into a crowd of angery protesters - one would hope his training officer taught him not to do that. Just saying. (And no, I'm not taking a shot at your current/prior position.)

No offense taken. I meant 'pursue' in the all inclusive sense, engaging the victim for info, getting on the radio and broadcasting an alert with description and direction of travel ... you know, the usual police stuff ... not laughing at the victim's misfortune.

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[Old Dog New Trick]

👍

[TacOfficer]

Think of the totality of the circumstances. The officer's duty was to hold the line of a protest, not chase her fellow civil disobedient into a hostile environment. Now despite the fact that she's seeking help from the very entity that she's protesting. It's neither the time nor place to launch an investigation over phone snatching. Property crimes can be reported at a later date. Not "Excuse me Mr. Fuck the police while I leave my post to take the fine young lady's report".

Oh yes, the description of offender and direction of flight. "1 'Black Guy', direction of fight, went into a crowd of more 'black guys'". Sorry that's not going to make the cut on the radio during a protest.

I've been on the line all week with these mutts/citizens exercising their constitutional rights and before you go defending them, these particular individuals are the same that show up to every event: liberal arts drop outs, stuck with a tuition bill they have nothing to show for and can't pay because Daddy cut them off, then demanding that the very Nanny state they are protesting care for them.

The cause doesn't matter to them, just another opportunity to say "Who's streets, our streets". It's still ringing in my ears.

As to the level of professionalism displayed: My brother's were the epitome of Restraint and Professionalism. The protesters were protected from counter protests and marched freely and safely till they decided to go home safe and sound without interference from the police or others.

So if my fellow officer decides to inform this young lady of her current lack of situational awareness and the limits of police service at the time, well to put it in the common vernacular "Tough Shit" :munchin

[UWOA (RIP)]

Think of the totality of the circumstances. The officer's duty was to hold the line of a protest, not chase her fellow civil disobedient into a hostile environment. Now despite the fact that she's seeking help from the very entity that she's protesting. It's neither the time nor place to launch an investigation over phone snatching. Property crimes can be reported at a later date. Not "Excuse me Mr. Fuck the police while I leave my post to take the fine young lady's report".

Oh yes, the description of offender and direction of flight. "1 'Black Guy', direction of fight, went into a crowd of more 'black guys'". Sorry that's not going to make the cut on the radio during a protest.

I've been on the line all week with these mutts/citizens exercising their constitutional rights and before you go defending them, these particular individuals are the same that show up to every event: liberal arts drop outs, stuck with a tuition bill they have nothing to show for and can't pay because Daddy cut them off, then demanding that the very Nanny state they are protesting care for them.

The cause doesn't matter to them, just another opportunity to say "Who's streets, our streets". It's still ringing in my ears.

As to the level of professionalism displayed: My brother's were the epitome of Restraint and Professionalism. The protesters were protected from counter protests and marched freely and safely till they decided to go home safe and sound without interference from the police or others.

So if my fellow officer decides to inform this young lady of her current lack of situational awareness and the limits of police service at the time, well to put it in the common vernacular "Tough Shit" :munchin

Attitudes like that displayed to the public is what makes it tough for the next officer to do his or her job when he or she encounters that individual down the road. That attitude is what gives a supervisor a job, because he has to fix what should never have been broken in the first place -- the personification of professionalism. So when you give a generic description of a B/M running into a crowd it displays ignorance. Yes, it's fine to say "Sorry, I can't leave my post to pursue that guy.", but not in a derogatory manner. And I'll stake my thirty-four years in law enforcement, including attendance at the FBI National Academy, that that's not what's being taught or inculcated in new and aspiring law enforcement officers.

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[TacOfficer]

Attitudes like that displayed to the public is what makes it tough for the next officer to do his or her job when he or she encounters that individual down the road. That attitude is what gives a supervisor a job, because he has to fix what should never have been broken in the first place -- the personification of professionalism. So when you give a generic description of a B/M running into a crowd it displays ignorance. Yes, it's fine to say "Sorry, I can't leave my post to pursue that guy.", but not in a derogatory manner. And I'll stake my thirty-four years in law enforcement, including attendance at the FBI National Academy, that that's not what's being taught or inculcated in new and aspiring law enforcement officers.

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Agree completely that professionalism and the conveyance thereof is key when engaged with protesters or any other police service. The physical manifestation of authority must appear in a uniformed and professional manner in order to present an image of strength and control. However, when in the mist of these events a narcissistic weeping willow demands personal service concerning the theft of a phone by a fellow protester that she was using in the hopes of capturing some perceived misconduct by police, no sympathy or time should be tolerated.

I would relish the opportunity to encounter this individual down the road and explain to her the error of her ways in such a manner that she will walk away enlightened and grateful for the contribution Law Enforcement makes in providing a safe and secure community.

Further, from personal experience, I don't believe that the officer's interaction with this person will alter her point of view one iota. To restate, the officer's reply was what she had been chanting the last God knows how many hours: "I stated you don't like or want the police around so you go chase that black guy." The irony of the moment was priceless.

Personally, mocking a lost soul isn't my style. I would have told her to "report it tomorrow via another phone" and left it at that. I have stood on "the line" of protest for the last 16yrs, BTDT (still am) and worked with the Federal alphabet soup agencies. Frankly not really impressed with them when it comes to engaging the public. They are much better at being lawyers and accountants. As for new recruits, I wouldn't let them near a protest. It's a predominantly psychological affair that they just don't have the experience to participate in. In my opinion, one contributing factor of why Ferguson Police reaction to the violent protest went viral was the inexperience of small town departments in dealing with large scale protests. During protests recently in large cities the news cameras are more focused on the protesters because the police are generally just presenting a boring disciplined line.

[Streck-Fu]

The problems we have are from the officers like those that beat Kelly Thomas to death. Or Officer Frank Phillips who choked a college kid after already placed in cuffs. Or Officer Busard of Indianapolis who was drunk on duty and hit a group of motorcyclists killing one. Initially, the cyclist were cited with Failure to Yield until the media got involved. There are too many examples to list them all.

The police need to have the tools to deliver the force necessary when appropriate and their need to be accountable when they do use force irresponsibly.

Far too often, such abuses of power and excessive force lead to suspension and termination only when a video surfaces or a witness. Their fellows officers are accomplices in silence to maintain that Thin Blue Line.

[BryanK]

NYPD to become the San Angles PD of Demolition Man fame

So, would the new appropriate salutation to an individual that is suspected of a crime be "Mellow greetings citizen, what seems to be your boggle?" :D

[The Reaper]

The problems we have are from the officers like those that beat Kelly Thomas to death. Or Officer Frank Phillips who choked a college kid after already placed in cuffs. Or Officer Busard of Indianapolis who was drunk on duty and hit a group of motorcyclists killing one. Initially, the cyclist were cited with Failure to Yield until the media got involved. There are too many examples to list them all.

The police need to have the tools to deliver the force necessary when appropriate and their need to be accountable when they do use force irresponsibly.

Far too often, such abuses of power and excessive force lead to suspension and termination only when a video surfaces or a witness. Their fellows officers are accomplices in silence to maintain that Thin Blue Line.

I am not offering any excuses, buit every group has its problem members.

We even have them in SF, and I can guarantee that our selection and assessment is more stringent, and the training is much longer.

I think the larger problem, as you have addressed, is the cover-up, or at least the blind eye of the "good cops" turned toward those few and their misconduct.

A secondary issue would be the increasing militarization of LE and aggressive policing, which has the problem of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, therein losing popular support and alienating the public.

Every time cops kick in a door in the wee hours, kill the family dog, break and rake the windows, flashbang their way through the house, and rough up the occupants (if not actually killing one), you have created members of the resistance, just like we have done in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some of those people will refuse to support the police in the future, some will organize against law enforcement, and a few may actively seek revenge.

Remember, you don't live on a fire base in the middle of nowhere with a couple of hundred buddies watching your back when you are off-shift. You (and your families) live in the communities you are sworn to protect. I think you should be extremely heavily invested in rapport building and a hearts and minds campaign with the public. Community policing, right? And that can yield good intel as well.

Again, I am not saying all LEOs are bad. I do think they should be cautious in utilizing violence when it is not required, and apply the same scrutiny and standards to the few law-breaking cops as they would The People. Trust and respect are earned.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

[UWOA (RIP)]

TR -- As you usually do, you have addressed the issues in a very sober and logical manner, and I agree with your statements.

Regarding the situations mentioned above and the consequent betrayal of trust, I am extremely familiar with the Indianapolis Brisard case. I was the Assistant Chief of Police (later the Acting Chief when the current Chief resigned to go to another agency) of the PD where the fatal motorcycle accident occurred. The officer who escorted Brisard for the blood draw was a lieutenant from the department I commanded. Several of the Metro detectives who worked the fatal investigation were former deputies (the Sheriff's Department law enforcement divisions and the Indianapolis Police Department merged in 2007 ten months after I retired as a Major from the Sheriff's Office) who worked for me and I know them to be conscientious and competent people. Not so much the lieutenant, he was later fired by the merit board for cause after I left that department (after I tried to can him at least twice). How they missed that Brisard was an alcoholic and drunk on his ass, I'll never for the life of me figure out -- however, he not only fooled 'my guys', he also didn't raise any eyebrows from the Metro chiefs who came to that scene. At the end of the day, it's like TR says, there are all kinds of people who work in such organizations, most good, some bad. I spent the last fifteen years of my career working to commend the good and train or get rid of the bad.

At the end of the day, it's the face you show the public which will be carried by memory into the future -- something which I think both TacOfficer and I can agree.

.

[UWOA (RIP)]

So, would the new appropriate salutation to an individual that is suspected of a crime be "Mellow greetings citizen, what seems to be your boggle?" :D

Me, even though I never swear (or at least admit to), I'd still probably get a ticket ... but not when the citizen was there .... Considering how they had sex in that future 'paradise' I'd rather rot in hell than be there, especially if Sandra Bullock was my partner and we couldn't get it on. LOL!!!!!

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