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Polaris DAGOR ultra-light truck ready for combat
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/10/07/polaris-dagor-ultra-light-truck-ready-for-combat/?intcmp=trending?cmpid=cmty_plus_fn
"U.S. Special Forces will soon be riding into battle in a race-bred truck.
The Polaris DAGOR is a compact military machine that uses a trophy truck-style suspension for extreme off-road capability and was developed in partnership with Roush Industries of NASCAR fame.
The purpose-built military machine is about the size of a four-door Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, but can fit up to nine warfighters onboard: four in the cabin, four in the bed, and a roof gunner positioned in a sling seat suspended from the roll cage...."
Hmmmm
The Reaper
10-08-2014, 20:08
What is wrong with a Toyota 4x4 pickup with a 50 or MK19 mounted in the bed.
It doesn't cost $150,000.
TR
miclo18d
10-09-2014, 05:35
So my question is, where do you put the ammo, the med bags, litters/backboards, the radios, batteries, mortar, water, food, rucksacks, etc?
I'm not sure but I don't see a turret for the M2. Am I missing something?
I hope it is solar powered too, I wouldn't want our soldiers to endanger some foreign country's environment! Think of the children!
...I'm not sure but I don't see a turret for the M2. Am I missing something?...
Last picture shows the little sling seat.
About the same size as a Hummer and shocked up like that dune buggy thingy from the 1980's. That could hold four - but crowded when you added all the gear.
What is wrong with a Toyota 4x4 pickup with a 50 or MK19 mounted in the bed.
Just read Roughneck 91 book, and you will learn.
It's not all about on theater, the vision has to be global as far as a fighting vehicle.
Now UW wise, local vehicle every time.
mark46th
10-09-2014, 08:07
Looking at the pictures, armor for the gunner is the guy on either side of him with body armor and all the gear packed in around them.
The Reaper
10-09-2014, 09:18
I was being a bit sarcastic in my comment.
So all kidding aside here is a thought. One of the lessons of WWII was in a tank any one using the MG was exposed and caused a lot of casualties so after WWII notice all tanks ie M-47, M-48, M-60 had a coupla to hide in while firing the MG. The Abrams is the first US tank to not have one.
That is what the coax MG is for.
This beast should, at least theoretically, have much better off road speed and mobility than a Toyota. Speed is security. The more armor you add, the slower the vehicle will go.
I don't know too many SF guys who would rather be patrolling in MRAPs.
IIRC, this was designed to fit in a MH-47 as well.
TR
Golf1echo
10-09-2014, 18:41
This gives me a chance to ask about a sentence Polaris used to describe the DARGOR, now I like Polaris and I can see the different mission sets they are working on. " Soldiers in the UCLV will be protected from kinetic threats by their Personal Protective Equipment and will rely on speed and maneuverability to avoid threats". Perhaps something so obvious shouldn't need to be mentioned as and end user might not see the pros in it...:confused:
Here is the source: http://soldiersystems.net/category/mobility/
PokemonMaster
10-12-2014, 13:04
I was being a bit sarcastic in my comment.
So all kidding aside here is a thought. One of the lessons of WWII was in a tank any one using the MG was exposed and caused a lot of casualties so after WWII notice all tanks ie M-47, M-48, M-60 had a coupla to hide in while firing the MG. The Abrams is the first US tank to not have one.
Fast forward to 2001 conflicts and as ya'll know gunners made up hillbilly armor to protect themselves from gun fire because just like WWII they were exposed.
So my question is, Where is the damn coupla for the gunner? You just as well be in a toyota 4x4 as a gunner because you get no more protection in this damn thing than a Toyota!.
You can't fire from inside in an Abrams? In the Stryker you can fire from the inside using a little tv and a joystick.
The Reaper
10-12-2014, 14:32
You can't fire from inside in an Abrams? In the Stryker you can fire from the inside using a little tv and a joystick.
The coax M240 is operated from inside the tank alongside the main gun.
The Loader's M240 is operated outside the tank.
Original M1s and M1A1s had a remotely operated M-2 .50 BMG, but the M1A2 needed the space for upgraded Tank Commander optics. The M1A2 TUSK is supposed to restore the remote operating capability to the TC's M-2 BMG.
The main gun is obviously operated from inside the tank.
TR
This gives me a chance to ask about a sentence Polaris used to describe the DARGOR, now I like Polaris and I can see the different mission sets they are working on. " Soldiers in the UCLV will be protected from kinetic threats by their Personal Protective Equipment and will rely on speed and maneuverability to avoid threats". ]
It means "This is the HMMWV before everybody dicked with it."
I was on the original HMMWV design team. ;)
The Reaper
10-12-2014, 17:52
I don't know if anyone knows the answer to this, but it is something that I have been wondering about---namely, in an Abrams tank, does the space the loader has to load the ammunition into rotate as the turret rotates the main gun? How does that work?
Google is amazing.
TR
The Reaper
10-12-2014, 20:41
It is, but I had tried Googling around and didn't find anything. There is information on where the crew members sit and so forth and other technical information, but I do not see anything on how the ammunition is lined with the gun when loaded. My Google-fu on this may be poor though due to also not knowing how to word the subject.
The turret basket on US tanks has rotated with the turret for a very long time.
TR
It is, but I had tried Googling around and didn't find anything. There is information on where the crew members sit and so forth and other technical information, but I do not see anything on how the ammunition is lined with the gun when loaded. My Google-fu on this may be poor though due to also not knowing how to word the subject.
There is a show on Discovery or the Military Channel that will answer this question for you....it might be named Firepower, and they take you through the Abrams on a Marine base in California.
But even as far back as the USS Monitor the gun turret rotated as a complete assembly...at least on Navel vessels....as I recall Tanks first appeared in WWI but most if not all had fixed or side mounted swivel guns, and it was not until WWII that rotating turrets became common place.
The Reaper
10-13-2014, 10:35
This photo (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--ifVu4EDWZw/U70DBIDGHfI/AAAAAAAAA-w/Wba_C1qLoI0/s1600/au220+turret.jpg) may provide a starting point.
NOT an M-1 Abrams.
TR
Google is amazing.
TR
Words of wisdom..
:munchin
The Reaper
10-13-2014, 12:17
I don't believe the M-1 Abrams has an autoloader, or a rotary magazine.
TR
I don't believe the M-1 Abrams has an autoloader, or a rotary magazine.
TR
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a232878.pdf
The XM91 auto loader has been around sense the early 90t's??
Maybe it never got funded??
Guymullins
10-13-2014, 13:49
Polaris DAGOR ultra-light truck ready for combat
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/10/07/polaris-dagor-ultra-light-truck-ready-for-combat/?intcmp=trending?cmpid=cmty_plus_fn
"U.S. Special Forces will soon be riding into battle in a race-bred truck.
The Polaris DAGOR is a compact military machine that uses a trophy truck-style suspension for extreme off-road capability and was developed in partnership with Roush Industries of NASCAR fame.
The purpose-built military machine is about the size of a four-door Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, but can fit up to nine warfighters onboard: four in the cabin, four in the bed, and a roof gunner positioned in a sling seat suspended from the roll cage...."
Hmmmm
I am amazed that there seems to have been absolutely no thought to "mine proofing" the vehicle. Surely the stats have shown that a very high proportion of modern day casualties are the results of mines and IEDs?How fast does a vehicle have to be to be able to outrun an IED? How nimble, to escape a buried mine?
I am amazed that there seems to have been absolutely no thought to "mine proofing" the vehicle.....
Big Green has many cogs in it's machine. This cog has come full circle and is starting another go round.
Peregrino
10-13-2014, 14:27
I am amazed that there seems to have been absolutely no thought to "mine proofing" the vehicle. Surely the stats have shown that a very high proportion of modern day casualties are the results of mines and IEDs?How fast does a vehicle have to be to be able to outrun an IED? How nimble, to escape a buried mine?
For conventional troops operating in a "mature" IED threat environment, you're correct. This vehicle is primarily for SOF operating in an "immature" threat environment. This vehicle also has provisions to increase crew protection incrementally as a conflict "matures" and threat levels increase. A lot of thought has gone into this. There are no perfect solutions. BLUF - you can't protect against everything and still have a vehicle that meets operational needs. The calculus is unforgiving. Standard bell-curve math. Considering what it takes to get it to the fight, what it can carry once it gets there, where it has to go to accomplish mission, and what the most likely threat will be this meets the 85-90% requirement. Left end will be Toyota pick-ups (or similar), right end will be MATVs (or similar). Other gaps will be filled with ingenuity/improvisation from whatever is at hand.
M1A2 Abrams Army Tank Crew Members' Positions Driver, Gunner, Ammo Loader & Commander -Military 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyrAqNv1odM
The gunner sure does look happy at his job.