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Team Sergeant
10-07-2014, 12:27
Picked up one of these (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/tactical/shotguns/model-870-express-tactical.aspx) yesterday, always wanted one. When I made the purchase the guy said "It's a great defensive gun." I replied, "I have a Czech German shepherd for defense, this is his backup." ;)

Ambush Master
10-07-2014, 13:02
You thought about having the Barrel worked over by Hans Vang?? Air.177's Competition Gun can knock down Pepper Poppers with #7.5 or #9 Shot while others have trouble with 00 Buck!!! Makes a WORLD of difference!!

The Reaper
10-07-2014, 13:10
You thought about having the Barrel worked over by Hans Vang?? Air.177's Competition Gun can knock down Pepper Poppers with #7.5 or #9 Shot while others have trouble with 00 Buck!!! Makes a WORLD of difference!!

Concur.

Of course, Hans also sells the 870s with all the bells and whistles himself.

TR

Team Sergeant
10-07-2014, 13:13
You thought about having the Barrel worked over by Hans Vang?? Air.177's Competition Gun can knock down Pepper Poppers with #7.5 or #9 Shot while others have trouble with 00 Buck!!! Makes a WORLD of difference!!

I'm not into shooting comp guns or pepper poppers. I'm thinking it might be needed for ISIS mooslems and in that case no special chokes or custom gun work will be required........

Besides, if I want to shoot pepper poppers I also own a Remington 1100 Competition Master designed for clubbing pepper poppers like baby seals.......

Ambush Master
10-07-2014, 13:26
It just gives a MUCH tighter Shot Column!! The "Pepper Poppers" were meerly a gauge of the difference, not that that was what the "Mod" was about!!!

Team Sergeant
10-07-2014, 13:28
It just gives a MUCH tighter Shot Column!! The "Pepper Poppers" were meerly a gauge of the difference, not that that was what the "Mod" was about!!!

Kinds negates the reason for purchasing an 18 inch barrel.....;)

Like I said it's a backup..... I expect to be very "close" to the action.:D

Streck-Fu
10-07-2014, 13:51
Damn good guns. I prefer Mossberg mostly for the safety position and replaceable ejector (not that I know of any one that broke an ejector on the 870).

For social shotgunning, I highly recommend the 00B from Federal with Flite control. Seriously tight patterns past 25 yards. PFC154 is the product for the full power 2 3/4" shells. They have lower recoil offerings for LE and women with designated LE154.

In patterning, I found that the 3" shell (PFC157) with 12 pellets did not hold nearly as tight of a pattern past 15 yards.

All shots with 18.5" Mossberg 590.:

First is the federal flite-control with shots at 10 and 15 yards on the same target. The 15y is shifted left. All pellets and wad went through the same holes.
The other target is of green box Remington 00B at 15 yards and the shot is spread much farther.

The last picture is the PFC157 at 10y. If you want more of a spread, this may be your ticket.

The Reaper
10-07-2014, 14:38
What the Vang does is extend the range of the weapon.

If you are getting a 30" pattern at 30 yards, which is typical, and missing the target with half of your pellets, the Vang can cut that pattern in half and make it possible to engage threats effectively up to 50 yards.

Inside your house, in will not matter, unless you are trying to hit a small target, or avoid a small target, as in a hostage situation.

I heartily recommend it.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10131

TR

Streck-Fu
10-07-2014, 14:54
I would contend that it may be true for most buckshot ammo but not those from Federal with the Flite-Control wad.

This is a 25y shot with the PFC157. The target is 6x10 and the hole through the '9' is from a previous shot. So this is <10" pattern through a 18" cylinder bore.

It would be interesting to see this ammo though a Vang Comp barrel.

craigepo
10-07-2014, 15:05
What the Vang does is extend the range of the weapon.

If you are getting a 30" pattern at 30 yards, which is typical, and missing the target with half of your pellets, the Vang can cut that pattern in half and make it possible to engage threats effectively up to 50 yards.

Inside your house, in will not matter, unless you are trying to hit a small target, or avoid a small target, as in a hostage situation.

I heartily recommend it.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10131

TR

I'm unfamiliar with the Vang work. Is he setting the gun up for choke tubes, or is he actually rechoking the original barrel?

I'm a big fan of the new choke tube systems.

Streck-Fu
10-07-2014, 15:24
Hans Vang describes the modification here: LINK (https://www.vangcomp.com/)

The Vang Comp System (VCS), designed by gunsmith Hans J. Vang, is a set of modifications to shotgun barrels. The alterations to the barrel consist of lengthening the forcing cone, back-boring the barrel, and adding compensating ports. With the VCS, accuracy significantly improves, felt recoil is dramatically reduced, and muzzle rise diminishes. By lengthening the forcing cone, the pellets have a smooth flow from the chamber to the bore. This prevents the pellets from bunching up in the barrel and reduces the felt recoil. In addition, the pellets do not become as deformed and keep a more consistent shape.

Probably one of the most important and most obvious parts of the VCS are the compensating ports. Some of the gases, created by the burnt powder exiting the muzzle, vent upward through the ports. This redirected gas flow helps prevent the muzzle from rising and allows for both increased accuracy and a more rapid recovery time between shots. Also, the ports reduce muzzle flash, which in turn helps to retain night vision and keep the shooters location less conspicuous in low light conditions.

And patterns are shown and defined here: LINK (https://www.vangcomp.com/PATTERN_TESTS.html)

In my opinion, Federal has achieved with ammunition design, the kind of pattern that used to be available only through the barrel modifications Hans Vang developed.

The Reaper
10-07-2014, 15:34
I'm unfamiliar with the Vang work. Is he setting the gun up for choke tubes, or is he actually rechoking the original barrel?

I'm a big fan of the new choke tube systems.

Hans does all of the tricks by backboring, lengthening the forcing cone, etc. in a fixed choke barrel.

No choke tubes.

No point in having them in a dedicated defense shotgun optimized for the tightest patterns possible. And with a ported gun, it would be difficult to have removable chokes.

You will find that as with most guns, different loads and brands shoot different patterns, and usually one will be the best/tightest. My experience is that one is usually the most expensive. :D

He can sell you a barrel, or rework yours (or your entire shotgun).


Let me make a $5 suggestion.

Get a box of buck and pattern your shotgun with its best choke at various distances, including the maximum distance you would be able to engage inside and outside your house and count the holes for yourself. If you aren't keeping most of the pellets on the target, you are missing and should change ammo, and / or barrels.

TR

Papa Zero Three
10-07-2014, 17:28
Gotta add my agreement and recommendation for Vang Comp. The work Hans does is very impressive. I was skeptical at first but now I am a believer, worth the money IMO. And that's out of an 18" gun.

Other upgrades that I'd recommend that the shooter can do himself are the Oversized safety, extended magazine tube, Aluminum follower and spring, a Mesa tactical side saddle. Add a light if you feel the need for one.

frostfire
10-08-2014, 17:25
Picked up one of these (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/tactical/shotguns/model-870-express-tactical.aspx) yesterday, always wanted one. When I made the purchase the guy said "It's a great defensive gun." I replied, "I have a Czech German shepherd for defense, this is his backup." ;)

Unfortunately you will be dissapointed with the finish. Remington has cut corners to lower or keep low its production cost. With regular use to include competition, I'll be very surprised if you don't see rust marks near the chamber in a few months. Also with hunting and exposure to elements, it sucks even worse. Cerakote probably helps. I now put light coat of oil on mine. I should have gone with a friend recommendation on getting a used remington wingmaster and then convert it to "tactical" version.

In my opinion, Federal has achieved with ammunition design, the kind of pattern that used to be available only through the barrel modifications Hans Vang developed.

Concur. I have the LE variant of Federal flite control and similar offering from Hornady. The caveat is of course they are more $$$, but I opted for change of ammo versus Vang mod. YMMV

Papa Zero Three
10-08-2014, 18:28
At the risk of stating the obvious here....the advantage with the Vang Comp mod is that I/you can shoot any make/type of ammo and get very good results. Not everyone can find or afford flight control/LE runs of ammo but you can get the same or close to the same performance when you have a VC mod barrel...at least that has been my experience with my VC modified shotgun shooting everything from cheap wal mart target loads to buckshot and slugs.

The Reaper
10-08-2014, 18:30
If I find the FC ammo, I may have to see how it works in a Vang barrel.

Frankly, the Federal F127 Premium is very good in my Vang. All nine pellets into 3" at seven yards.

TR

frostfire
10-08-2014, 19:06
If I find the FC ammo, I may have to see how it works in a Vang barrel.


(copy and paste)sgammo.com/product/12-gauge/50-rd-brick-12-gauge-le13200-low-recoil-buckshot
pretty much best price + shipping combo. Those FC are beyond ridiculous. I'm talking one ragged hole at 7 yards and minute-of-heart to minute-of-lungs at 50 yards with all pellets accounted for. I stopped testing after that. The low recoil enables you to pull that performance with rapid succession on multiple targets. Makes me want to try them out of a Benelli M4.

On that same page, the Winchester Ranger slug also gives excellent performance. Out of that 18" 870 with ghost ring sight, you can repeatedly place head shots at 100 yds once you figure out the hold off

Streck-Fu
10-08-2014, 21:11
Not everyone can find or afford flight control/LE runs of ammo but you can get the same or close to the same performance when you have a VC mod barrel...

It's pretty readily available at Gander Mountain, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc and online at Midway and Brownell's and runs $5-7 per box of 5.

Papa Zero Three
10-09-2014, 00:18
It's pretty readily available at Gander Mountain, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc and online at Midway and Brownell's and runs $5-7 per box of 5.

Maybe in your AO but it's not that way everywhere and online, it's hit and miss if you can get it while its in stock. I like that I can feed my VC gun anything I am able to find and get good results. To me, thats one of the strong points of the mod.

Team Sergeant
10-09-2014, 09:24
(copy and paste)sgammo.com/product/12-gauge/50-rd-brick-12-gauge-le13200-low-recoil-buckshot
pretty much best price + shipping combo. Those FC are beyond ridiculous. I'm talking one ragged hole at 7 yards and minute-of-heart to minute-of-lungs at 50 yards with all pellets accounted for. I stopped testing after that. The low recoil enables you to pull that performance with rapid succession on multiple targets. Makes me want to try them out of a Benelli M4.

On that same page, the Winchester Ranger slug also gives excellent performance. Out of that 18" 870 with ghost ring sight, you can repeatedly place head shots at 100 yds once you figure out the hold off

They should rename this low-recoil-buckshot to: FBI, Secret Service, ATF and General LEO Woman's Buckshot. If you look into the reason this low recoil buckshot was invented you'll find its because women cannot handle a 12 gauge shotgun, (and some very sissy men).

mdpatterson
10-12-2014, 07:47
I have no need for another tactical shotgun, but need and want don't often agree. Their tactical in A-tacs AU is on sale for $499 and I'm a sucker for that camo. I don't need it to blend in, I just like it. I want a Benelli M4, but keep getting sucked in to $500 deals and then end up wishing I had just bought the Benelli.

Anyone here have a Benelli they want to trade for a few shotguns, rifles, pistols, etc. please don't hesitate to contact me :D

Mike

Five-O
10-12-2014, 07:59
They should rename this low-recoil-buckshot to: FBI, Secret Service, ATF and General LEO Woman's Buckshot. If you look into the reason this low recoil buckshot was invented you'll find its because women cannot handle a 12 gauge shotgun, (and some very sissy men).

Agreed and would add ; manufactures have also attempted to make it sexy by renaming it Tactical Buckshot or Tactical Rifled slug. I have a semi-auto 12.5 inch Benelli M1 short barrel shotgun and the "tactical- police loads" will not reliably cycle the weapon. So becareful to those with semi-autos using the "reduced recoil" crap.

Toaster
10-13-2014, 20:12
Like FF said, the Wingmasters make good tactical shotguns. Most budget friendly way to build one would be get it off gunbroker and piece it together. I saw a receiver for $45, and some complete 12 guages for about $125. You can probably also get one of the metal trigger guards as well instead of the newer plastic ones.

My 870 is a wingmaster that's been cerakoted, so it won't be rusting unless I throw it in the ocean or seriously neglect it. I like the Magpul forend more than the standard one that came with it. It's smoother and easier on the hands, not that it bothers me, but I have a wife to think about. It also allows for attaching lights or whatever I care to to it.

Vang Comp now offers a military/LEO active or retired discount now.

Team Sergeant
10-14-2014, 14:24
Agreed and would add ; manufactures have also attempted to make it sexy by renaming it Tactical Buckshot or Tactical Rifled slug. I have a semi-auto 12.5 inch Benelli M1 short barrel shotgun and the "tactical- police loads" will not reliably cycle the weapon. So becareful to those with semi-autos using the "reduced recoil" crap.

Anything with the word "tactical" can and will be marked up by 500%.............

I'm surprised we don't have tactical beer........ or tactical cigars....

Peregrino
10-14-2014, 18:03
....... or tactical cigars....

https://dsgarms.com/dsg-cigars

You just weren't looking hard enough! :p (Not really "tactical" but cool nonetheless.)

Toaster
10-14-2014, 19:43
Anything with the word "tactical" can and will be marked up by 500%.............

I'm surprised we don't have tactical beer........ or tactical cigars....

I think what you mean by "we don't have it" is that the SFA store doesn't carry them. :)

Tactical Cigar Cases....

http://www.tactical-smokes.com/products/

Tactical Beer Mug...

http://www.battlemug.com/

Tactical Nuclear Beer...

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/brewdog-tactical-nuclear-penguin/114110/

Tactical Bacon...you need to keep this with your shotgun for the mooslems TS.:cool:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/c399/