View Full Version : Tony Stewart
Mr Furious
08-10-2014, 11:45
Homicide? Hard to say. The kid shouldn’t have been walking in the middle of the track under yellow, a foolish act that proved fatal. Was Stewart’s move intentional? This is the best video I’ve seen of the events and I can’t really tell, but for being under caution he is certainly moving a bit fast. Many say he stepped on the gas, and I guess the investigation should uncover all of that. He sure has a history of being a hot head, and an overall arrogant asshole. I was appalled that his management initially said that he would be racing today “business as usual.” Glad to see they did a 180 and pulled him from the race, and probably did so under pressure. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=969_1407652422
Looking at that video, I don't think Stewart was driving "that" fast. He appeared to be driving the same speed (caution) as the other drivers.
The driver who wiped out is more to blame than Stewart.
He appeared to be wanting to confront the driver that sent him into the wall by standing in the middle of the track. Granted it was Stewart who put that driver into the wall, but even that didn't look to be on purpose. Although, it is Sprint car, so that very well could have been intentional.
It was night and that driver was dressed in black, which would make him even more difficult to see.
When Stewart initially hit the driver, his vehicle swerves, which looks as if that swerve is caused by the impact.
IMO I don't think Stewart maliciously went after that guy. Just an unfortunate set of circumstances.
Let's see what the investigation shows ..... :munchin
Tony's always been a hot head, so I'll call him guilty until proven innocent.
Drivers often get out to confront others under yellow. Tony's even thrown his helmet at other drivers.
Pat
Standing in the track on the outside of a curve - Stewart's car was pretty close behind the blue car coming out of the curve and I doubt he saw the guy in the track until it was too late to correct.
I used to go to dirt tracks and drag races when growing up out here and have been a NASCAR fan for years - s**t happens when everybody is doing everything right...but especially when you're doing really stupid s**t like walking out onto the track at night on a curve when drivers are still racing. :eek: Last mistake he'll ever make.
Richard
The Reaper
08-10-2014, 14:28
Standing in the track on the outside of a curve - Stewart's car was pretty close behind the blue car coming out of the curve and I doubt he saw the guy in the track until it was too late to correct.
I used to go to dirt tracks and drag races when growing up out here and have been a NASCAR fan for years - s**t happens when everybody is doing everything right...but especially when you're doing really stupid s**t like walking out onto the track at night on a curve when drivers are still racing. :eek: Last mistake he'll ever make.
Richard
I concur.
Especially in a black suit and a black helmet.
TR
Standing in the track on the outside of a curve - Stewart's car was pretty close behind the blue car coming out of the curve and I doubt he saw the guy in the track until it was too late to correct.
I used to go to dirt tracks and drag races when growing up out here and have been a NASCAR fan for years - s**t happens when everybody is doing everything right...but especially when you're doing really stupid s**t like walking out onto the track at night on a curve when drivers are still racing. :eek: Last mistake he'll ever make.
Richard
Fully agree with that.
My home town is Watkins Glen, NY. I've seen a fair amount of racing although Watkins is a road track and when I left there to join the Army they were racing Formula 1. Still, regardless of the cars/track, getting out of your car and walking into the center of the track, even with the caution flag out is not a smart move. It's a tragedy all around but probably not Stewart's fault.
The main reason the Watkins Glen track was built was due to a fatality from the days when they ran the race through the roads outside the village. The main straight-away and start/finish line were the main street through town. During one of the races in the 50s, a spectator wandered out into the street and was killed by one of the cars. If memory serves, they stopped racing in Watkins for a couple of years until the track was built.
striveseekfind
08-10-2014, 16:42
cedsall,
The accident happened in Canandaigua. That's about 30 minutes from where I am in Rochester (Henrietta area). They have a dirt track there, and Tony Stewart was slated to race today in Watkins Glen.
The Reaper
08-10-2014, 17:25
J.D McDuffie died racing at the Glen 23 years ago tomorrow.
TR
The Reaper
08-10-2014, 22:21
Prayers out to Kevin Ward's family. I'm sure he was a good kid and working hard grinding away in the northeast sprint car circuit.
Tony Stewart is a hothead, like most other professional racing drivers, but....
From paragraph 6-2 of the NASCAR rulebook, section C:
"Competitors are also solely and directly responsible for the safety of their race cars and racing equipment and are obligated to perform their duties (whether as a car owner, driver, or crew member) in a manner designed to minimize to the degree possible the risk of injury to themselves and others."
I will be very surprised if its found that Mr. Ward was engaging in behavior designed to minimize risk of injury to himself and others. Perhaps this will apply to Tony, too, after a proper investigation.
It was a Sprint car race, not NASCAR, unless NASCAR is the new sanctioning body.
Your point remains valid though.
TR
I ran a 360 sprint car for over ten years before the sport got too big for my pocket book. Looking at the videos from that accident, I don't think any good driver would have done anything different than what was shown in the videos. Driving a sprint car is a lot like driving a jet boat or a jet ski. The throttle controls the car. The lack of visibility from the cockpit is a huge factor as well. While I feel sorry for the kid, he had been racing since he was four years old. He knew better than to walk out on the track like that. I've seen people do the same thing over the years and some of them have gotten hurt, one is in a wheelchair now and will be for the rest of his life. I feel sorry for all parties involved.
Just curious, but what do four year-olds race?
Go carts, I am pretty sure most of the NASCAR guys got their start with them also.
Just curious, but what do four year-olds race?
Kid Kart Class
Kid Kart (ages 5-8)
Whether you’re looking to groom the next Formula 1 star or just looking to enjoy motorsports with the entire family and your young driver is age 5-8, the Kid Kart class is for you. With safety and fun the first considerations, the purpose of the Kid Kart class is to introduce young drivers to the fundamentals of karting. Accordingly, many of the mechanical variables are fixed so that the emphasis is on working with the driver rather than the equipment. Everything from engine to gear ratio and tires are specified for all competitors. At some clubs the kid kart class is a ‘participation only’ class with no awards for finishing position, just a participation award. Other clubs consider the class like any other and allow kids to compete for points championships.
While many of the Kid Kart class rules are the same across the country, rules do vary by club so it’s always a good idea to check with your local club or track operator for their specific rules.
Kid Kart Essentials
Kid kart
Note: these are only general guidelines - be sure to check with your local club for specific rules.
All drivers must have attained the age of 5 and can compete through the calendar year of their 8th birthday.
Combined kart & driver weight must meet the minimum requirement (usually 125 to 150 lbs.) at the end of each race.
Engine: 50cc Comer C-50 or C-51. All engines are to remain stock and untouched from manufacturer though competitors regularly have the engines ‘blueprinted’ by shops specializing in kart engines.
Fuel: gas & oil only, usually specified by track.
Spec Gearing: 219 chain, 10 tooth driver, 89 tooth rear sprocket.
Karts: No offset karts allowed, maximum width: 42”, wheelbase: 29”-31”.
Rear Bumper: Continuous loop shaped with vertical or angled bracing connecting upper and lower loop rails. Bumper must protect rear tires.
Tires: Brand and compound usually specified by track, size: 4.50 x 10-5 or 4.60 x 10-5, maximum circumference: 33.75”.
Spec Chain Guard: Chain guard is to completely cover chain when viewed from above.
ref link: (https://www.margay.com/karts/application/kid-kart-ages-5-8.html)
Old Dog New Trick
08-11-2014, 08:27
I think it was his racing number.
I'm not superstitious or anything but, if your number is 13 and you chose to wear all black and run around on a race track at night pointing fingers while others are still racing; that seems pretty much like Darwin is a member of your family.
You'd think he'd have gained the SA to know how dangerous that is.
RIP young man,
Unless your car is on fire, I'll bet the rules say - stay in it!
It was a Sprint car race, not NASCAR, unless NASCAR is the new sanctioning body.
Doesn't really matter. The rules concerning actions under "yellow" are universal. PLUS, he makes his living on a race track which includes driving at night and interfacing with people on the track and scurrying around pit lane. He was there to set the example to the youngsters of how to behave. He's never been good at that on the track. Off the track, he seems to have been completely different.
Pat
Red Flag 1
08-11-2014, 16:12
Prayers out to Kevin Ward's family. I'm sure he was a good kid and working hard grinding away in the northeast sprint car circuit.
Tony Stewart is a hothead, like most other professional racing drivers, but....
From paragraph 6-2 of the NASCAR rulebook, section C:
"Competitors are also solely and directly responsible for the safety of their race cars and racing equipment and are obligated to perform their duties (whether as a car owner, driver, or crew member) in a manner designed to minimize to the degree possible the risk of injury to themselves and others."
I will be very surprised if its found that Mr. Ward was engaging in behavior designed to minimize risk of injury to himself and others. Perhaps this will apply to Tony, too, after a proper investigation.
Agree, doc. I ran SCCA/open wheel at the Glen and other tracks in the North East. It was lightyears ago, but the physical contact, so common with stock/sprint car racing, always was forigen to me. Touch another open wheel race car with a wheel, and the price was very high. Vision was always an issue, and just went with the territory. There was always oil and crap from the track on the windscreens. Knowing that, it just seemed nuts to me to stay on the track with other race cars flying past. The rule was, that if you could exit the race car, do so and leave the track. Staying in the race car was bad enough to me. Another race car hitting me was always the big worry that just increased the risk of more contact, entrapment, and fire. Standing on the track was just pure suicide. Doing so at night in black Nomex was worse. Walking into other racing cars........well. Very hard to watch the video, and very sad to see happen. Prayers out to all touched by this tragic event.
My $.02.
Standing in the track on the outside of a curve - Stewart's car was pretty close behind the blue car coming out of the curve and I doubt he saw the guy in the track until it was too late to correct.
I used to go to dirt tracks and drag races when growing up out here and have been a NASCAR fan for years - s**t happens when everybody is doing everything right...but especially when you're doing really stupid s**t like walking out onto the track at night on a curve when drivers are still racing. :eek: Last mistake he'll ever make.
Richard
Concur, the kid was stupid to run down into the track. Especially wearing a black suit and helmet on a dim lite curve. The other thing, dirt tracks throw a ton of dirt/mud onto the Plexiglas windshields. Regular NASCAR tracks throw crap onto the cars. Stewart maybe a hot head, but he has "Blown up" in a long time.
I'll chime in here in defense of Stewart. Those sprint cars are pretty much controlled by the throttle. The car in front of Stewart came pretty close to Ward but he dodged and Ward jumped back, then he seemed to charge Stewarts car. If Stewart hit the throttle to try to avoid the idiot, than his car might have jumped out and caught said protester.
Bringing up Stewarts previous "anger management" issues, especially in this forum (where we all take pride in our badassary) is just hypocritical bullshit. I met Stewart at a concert once with my son. I asked him for his autograph for my son, and he declined. But....he asked for my address. Less than a week later, he sent an 8 x 10 signed photo to my son. He could have easily blown me off.
I call that character!
Old Dog New Trick
08-12-2014, 20:13
MOO- The more this proceeds in the jury of the media (Tony Stewart is guilty of something we just have to push our agenda until we get our way), I come to two conclusions. 1) If this was not/did not involve Tony Stewart it would be a non-story. 2) Because this is now and is a growing story (because it includes a major name in motor-sports) it sounds more and more like Kevin Ward Jr., will be responsible for ending (all) motor-sports and racing in the state of New York and probably send a chilling message to other states that have laws about unintentional death.
I have watched one of the two videos several times, and I can't for the life of me see how any driver could be responsible for hitting the young Mr. Ward. When you play chicken with a race car or any car for that matter you will lose! Mr. Ward made a very bad choice and paid for it with his "angry" life, no matter how angry he was or was not in life, it got the best of him at the end.
If Tony is successfully sued or charged and convicted of a crime with what I've seen so far and without intent to cause intentional harm it will change the future of racing and younger people will find the insurance rates far too high to even start racing anything from motorcycles to cars, and snowmobiles.
twistedsquid
08-12-2014, 20:27
Everything Old Dog New Trick said. Plus one.
Leozinho
08-12-2014, 21:15
MOO- The more this proceeds in the jury of the media (Tony Stewart is guilty of something we just have to push our agenda until we get our way), I come to two conclusions. 1) If this was not/did not involve Tony Stewart it would be a non-story. 2) Because this is now and is a growing story (because it includes a major name in motor-sports) it sounds more and more like Kevin Ward Jr., will be responsible for ending (all) motor-sports and racing in the state of New York and probably send a chilling message to other states that have laws about unintentional death.
I have watched one of the two videos several times, and I can't for the life of me see how any driver could be responsible for hitting the young Mr. Ward. When you play chicken with a race car or any car for that matter you will lose! Mr. Ward made a very bad choice and paid for it with his "angry" life, no matter how angry he was or was not in life, it got the best of him at the end.
If Tony is successfully sued or charged and convicted of a crime with what I've seen so far and without intent to cause intentional harm it will change the future of racing and younger people will find the insurance rates far too high to even start racing anything from motorcycles to cars, and snowmobiles.
I like NASCAR. I like Tony Stewart. I've been on the skid pad and taken a few performance driving courses, but I have no experience with how a dirt track Sprint car handles. I know nothing about visibility out of a Sprint car. I think that the Ward was completely irresponsible for getting outside of the car and walking toward the flow of traffic.
I also don't know what Tony Stewart did or didn't do. I have no idea. I am of the opinion that only Stewart knows.
But I'll try to explain why I think the media is questioning if Stewart is partly to blame.
First, you have the old fashioned "If it bleeds, it leads." It's a big story, and you have to keep it going. Talking (and writing) heads don't get paid to be demure.
Second, NASCAR is a sport where it is acceptable to put someone into the wall at ~200mph, knowing that that wreck might kill someone. (Sure, cars are safer than ever, but it could happen. Hamlin got hurt last year after being wrecked by Logano.) You can put someone into the wall to win the race, or to settle an old score, or to put someone in his place.
Three, even in a sport full of driven, Type A personalities, Stewart is known to be a hot head. He's been involved in more than his share of incidents on the track and in the pits.
Four, on the audio of the video that I saw there's a loud blip of the throttle right as Ward is hit (actually, more than a blip, sounded like a rev). I've only seen one video, but the sound matched up with Stewart's rear end coming around (and striking Ward). I know they say you drive a dirt car with the throttle, but as far as I know getting on the gas doesn't produce understeer. Quite the opposite, right? I may have the physics all wrong, but if so, the laypeople driving the media story are likely to have the same misunderstanding that I have.
Five, in quotes that have been widely report, at least one driver at the track that night thinks Stewart is to blame. (Tyler Grave was a friend of Ward's and a fellow driver.)
Six, people think Stewart was incredibly insensitive when he first insisted he would drive the next day at Watkins Glen. (I don't necessarily see it that way. I think the same reason why Stewart originally insisted on driving the next day is why he's a NASCAR champion and I'm not. He's driven in ways that the average person isn't and probably doesn't understand. Nonetheless, the public saw it as callous and insensitive.)
Given number two, three, four, five and six, I don't think it's surprising that people are wondering if maybe, just maybe, Stewart thought he'd send a message to the young driver and scare him, and it all went horribly wrong.
After all, it may stand to reason that if it's OK to wreck someone, it's also probably OK to drive close to them and send them a message that you don't get out of the car and confront one of the old guard.
-------------
Oh, he's going to be sued. That's the American way, unfortunately.
Old Dog New Trick
08-12-2014, 21:40
Not disagreeing with anything you say...that's racing! (Shit Happens)
My point is the outcome of this particular witch hunt will hurt amateur racing more than it punishes Stewart.
Subsequently, without the money that SHR (Stewart - part of Haas Racing) puts into Sprint car and Outlaw racing, will see the end of that type of racing.
Whether Stewart is immature enough after all these years to play games with a rookie driver on a dirt track that pays nothing compared to his NASCAR deals and sponsors will undoubtably cause major race teams to abandon the lower ranking series and they will fade away.
Is Stewart, and has Stewart, been a "hot head" yes, he's also paid dearly and changed course as a team owner. I'm sure he feels horrible about this, I'm also fairly certain that his race at the Glen was a last chance to win and get back into the cup race, otherwise he is out. I doubt he made or got to make that decision the next morning, but he was there and would not have been there if not for the NASCAR race Sunday.
Will he be sued, yes, will he challenge it? Probably not, pay a settlement and move on.
Will "rules" be changed? Yes. Should they have already been in place? Probably!
ETA: when I was younger I raced Motocross, was pretty good for my age, had perfect eyesight, but most times couldn't see through my goggles after being behind anyone. That's during broad daylight. Still to this day, I track various fast cars and at speed you are very focused on the track ahead and expect the expected every lap, when something unexpected happens you have tenth of seconds to react, crash, or hit and hope to maintain control.
Wouldn't be surprised to hear that Tony was loosening his seat belt (under yellow flag) or turning a brake bias valve or some other switch/valve as he entered that corner and wasn't even looking until he saw at the last second this kid in a black suit in the track. Did what he thought would miss, but was too late to change the outcome, he didn't swerve out to hit anyone, his line was consistent until the contact spun his car, and could have likely caused his foot to hit the gas peddle on impact (sound travels slower than sight.) These cars are still moving upwards of 40-mph under caution.
The kid should not have been in the middle of the race track, every driver or rider learns this lesson early on...it leads to return visits and a long racing career.
P.S. As soon as that kid exited his car and walked on the track the officials should have thrown a red flag and stopped the race!
Whether Stewart is immature enough after all these years to play games with a rookie driver on a dirt track that pays nothing compared to his NASCAR deals and sponsors will undoubtably cause major race teams to abandon the lower ranking series and they will fade away.
That's my point. And who's fault is it? The 20-year-old kid who basically imulated his (perhaps) hero by confronting the driver who put him (at considerable risk and expense) into the fence or the 3 time Cup Champion who could have pulled into the pits, given the kid noogies and said, "That was a lesson on watching your six, dude. My guys will fix your car."
@ JSMosby: I said that I know that he is different off the track. He just seems to have an inability to control the adrenalin when things don't go his way on it.
They are all aggressive by nature. Remember Danica Patrick, in Indy Cars, being intercepted going after a guy that wrecked her?
Pat
Red Flag 1
08-13-2014, 17:28
The problem, and blame, is not Tony Stewart, or the young Mr. Ward. This was a sanctioned auto racing event. The event allows contact between racecars, and the media covers it heavily. Also covered heavily are the ontrack antics called revenge. Other racing venues, like Formula 1, and America's open wheel racing body do not promote contact between racing cars. Contact is covered, to be sure, but it is also looked at by sancioned racing officals. Contact is not accepted as the norm outside of NASCAR/Sprint/stock car races.
If automobile racing were sanctioned to maintain the same rules we abide by on our highways, regarding ccontact between cars, Mr. Ward would be alive today. The common practice of bumping other racing cars into the wall would not be looked at as the norm. There would have been no anger displayed on track, because it would not have happened. Think about it folks; bumping racecars moving at well over 100mph, should not be a norm. NASCAR and all it's little children venues need to rethink what is allowed on track. Drivers should be up in arms over this safety issue. Make no mistake, the common practices of hitting other race cars is unsafe. Open wheel drivers learned this and lobbied hard in the 60's & 70's to improve safety of their sport. It has resulted it major racing circut revisions. Major revisions in how the race cars are made have resulted as well. Driver safety is further advanced by going after any on track contact between racing cars. It should be the same in all forms. Contact between racing cars should not be allowed, and should be a penalty event if seen as avoidable.
Great chance here to save a lot of lives down the road. If nothing comes of this event in Upstate NY, then no one should have any issues the next time. Next time, it will be just another normal racing thing.There will be a next time, if NASCAR allows it.
My $.02. Back to my wee cave here in The Valley.
Contact between racing cars should not be allowed,
But then you'd lose moments like Monza '93! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv2kxImg4vc) ;)
Pat