View Full Version : Instant promotions: Switch jobs and make sergeant, staff sergeant,
I understand the need to encourage movement between branches, but why isn't the 18 series listed??
Instant promotions: Switch jobs and make sergeant, staff sergeant, Aug. 4, 2014 - 08:07AM
Seven priority MOSs have been approved for automatic promotions to sergeant and staff sergeant for qualified soldiers of the Regular Army.
The military occupational specialties fall under the engineering, electronic warfare, cyber defense, intelligence, public affairs, contracting and signal fields.
Soldiers who participate in the newly updated Special MOS Promotion Alignment Program, or SMAPP, will be promoted on the first day of the month following reclassification training and the award of the new MOS.
Applicants do not have to be on a promotion list for sergeant or staff sergeant, but they must meet the requirements.
http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140804/NEWS/308040016/Instant-promotions-Switch-jobs-make-sergeant-staff-sergeant
I understand the need to encourage movement between branches, but why isn't the 18 series listed??
I remember when they did something like that. All of a sudden you had Sgt/SSGs incharge of people that had years of experience in the MOS and they had no idea about the job. Did not work well for most that I knew.
Good luck with the new attempt.
We're actually not that bad understrength, even with all the retirements, ETS's and tab revoc's.
Probably they don't want to do that because of selection?? However as SF_BHT suggested, maybe not a good idea...
Scimitar
08-04-2014, 12:09
Though SF already kinda had this already.
From memory the 18x program promoted to I want to say E5 after is it 9 months and E6 after I want to say 48 months. Either way it's a pretty accelerated timeline, and I think it was the same for guys dropping their packets who where already in at E4.
S
The Reaper
08-04-2014, 12:22
I was told this weekend that SF E6s-E8s have a more than 30% attrition rate per year.
I find that hard to believe, and if it is true, what does that say about the maturity level of our force?
TR
Streck-Fu
08-04-2014, 12:41
I was told this weekend that SF E6s-E8s have a more than 30% attrition rate per year.
I find that hard to believe, and if it is true, what does that say about the maturity level of our force?
TR
Perhaps that is an indicator for the military environment rather than force maturity?
Though SF already kinda had this already.
From memory the 18x program promoted to I want to say E5 after is it 9 months and E6 after I want to say 48 months. Either way it's a pretty accelerated timeline, and I think it was the same for guys dropping their packets who where already in at E4.
S
You have to look at the rank structure on a SF Team.
There are no positions below SSG 4ea
5ea SFCs
1ea MSG
A cook could go to intel school as a SGT and after graduation be a SSG and be incharge of a BN S2 shop and have never done a thing in intel.
That is the rub. Yes some will do well but many others will not from what I have seen in the past.
WarriorDiplomat
08-04-2014, 12:58
Though SF already kinda had this already.
From memory the 18x program promoted to I want to say E5 after is it 9 months and E6 after I want to say 48 months. Either way it's a pretty accelerated timeline, and I think it was the same for guys dropping their packets who where already in at E4.
S
Making E5 meant you had to graduate the SFQC and for an 18 series that was pushing 18 mos to 2 yrs plus.
Now days soldier leave the Q as an E5 and are not automatically making E6 at 48 mos. they are being boarded and screened by their own team sgts for suitability.
They have been doing this for a few years now. Unfortunately many of the E8's and up making this decision to send to a board or not never went through really earning their rank they were the beneficiaries of the 7 in 7 or 8 generation and threw their hands up in disgust for not making E8 at 10-12 years and threaten to get out and let their performance reflect their frustration.
Ironic to have the most ardent anti UW DA guys leading the UW restructure and the super fast promotion entitlement generation putting the brakes on soldiers getting promoted too fast.
I am a fan of the SPC rank system and against the automatic NCO rank, a great soldier should not be promoted to a leadership rank such as SGT-MSG/1SG unless he is a leader by nature and schools do not make you a leader. By the same token a great soldier should not be penalized for not being a leader by never getting promoted.
Snaquebite
08-04-2014, 12:59
will be promoted on the first day of the month following reclassification training and the award of the new MOS.
I'm sure the training programs are much shorter than any of the 18 MOS's.
Team Sergeant
08-04-2014, 13:03
A cook could go to intel school as a SGT and after graduation be a SSG and be incharge of a BN S2 shop and have never done a thing in intel.
That is the rub. Yes some will do well but many others will not from what I have seen in the past.
And that's ok because SF'er someone is going to be over him watching and directing.
Desert Storm, SOCCENT HQ, I had a chat with a female MAJ Air Force, Intel officer working for SOCCENT HQ. She had some TS satellite images of a target area that a 5th Group team was supposed to hit. When I asked her for a copy of those images she said and I quote "What would an A-Team need with those images?"
It's much better if we grow our own Intel types. It's not a good idea to have to teach "seasoned" intel types when war has already begun......
WarriorDiplomat
08-04-2014, 13:10
Perhaps that is an indicator for the military environment rather than force maturity?
It's a combination I think the hypocritical leadership climate, military restructuring, forced retirements and all the tab revocations, voluntary retirements etc....
But the maturity of the force is sucking I think because all these mid level/senior guys who are having all their acceptable GWOT sins catch up to them.
The Reaper
08-04-2014, 14:10
Perhaps that is an indicator for the military environment rather than force maturity?
You missed my point.
The maturity would be a consequence of this attrittion. Not the cause.
TR
WarriorDiplomat
08-04-2014, 14:31
you mean like visible tattoos and not getting the inclusion lecture in.
IMHO so what someone got an article 15 a few years ago. If they learned from it and moved on it should be left in the past no kill their carrear. If they are that jacked up then they should have been kicked out then not pay for it the rest of their lives.
The 1 time article 15 is not the issue and aren't being discussed it is the repeat offenders like the soldiers who get a DUI article 15 and reduction in rank then recover their rank move up and then get another. DOD looked the other way during GWOT like they do all wars knowing damn good and well these soldiers had low character and we are talking about SOF as well.
I have an entire paper I will dedicate to Tattoo's because this is an issue everyone else understands except soldiers it seems this the FBI the DOC, ATF, DEA and you name it and every street gang on the planet have tatts (bona fides) that you DO see on soldiers. When the FBI Threat Group Task Force is approaching the DoD about the latest identifiers they are seeing in our own and the DoD snubs their noses for GWOT bodies we have an issue. And yes affiliations are collaged into many of these tatts and yes other countries and their leaders do have an issue with it. Yep thank the thugs who get in get the training and get out taking the training back to the streets of Chicago, NY, LA, Phoenix or wherever and also the soldiers they recruited while in. Remember the Marine LCPL in Oakland or the SGT who was beat in to a gang in Germany and died in his bed from the beating or the cripping dance you can watch on youtube showing Iraqis doing it or the gang markings left in every GWOT country.
That 'deal' has been going on since C was a corporal.
Surgicalcric
08-04-2014, 18:52
I guess leadership ability isn't a pre-req for being in a leadership position...
Though SF already kinda had this already.
From memory the 18x program promoted to I want to say E5 after is it 9 months and E6 after I want to say 48 months. Either way it's a pretty accelerated timeline, and I think it was the same for guys dropping their packets who where already in at E4.
S
That is incorrect.
Surgicalcric
08-04-2014, 19:01
..How about this, No tats that are known as a gang affiliation. EDUCATE command on what to look for at all levels.
That's already a policy. Having seen a few disguised in other tribal art many are hard to distinguish, especially 1%er tats when hidden in SF tats.
I agree the visible tat policy is about appearances, but tats on hands and neck are unprofessional. They especially have no place in SF of all places where maintaining a low signature/not standing out/blending in is somewhat important (unless your missions amounts to the same stuff that a squad of 18-24 y/o Rangers or paratroopers can accomplish.)
frostfire
08-04-2014, 19:05
hmmmm, can officers do this too?:D Electronic warfare, cyber defense, intel, signal...these are hot fields for years to come!
Instant promotions: Switch jobs and make sergeant, staff sergeant, Aug. 4, 2014 - 08:07AM
Seven priority MOSs have been approved for automatic promotions to sergeant and staff sergeant for qualified soldiers of the Regular Army.
The military occupational specialties fall under the engineering, electronic warfare, cyber defense, intelligence, public affairs, contracting and signal fields.
Soldiers who participate in the newly updated Special MOS Promotion Alignment Program, or SMAPP, will be promoted on the first day of the month following reclassification training and the award of the new MOS.
Applicants do not have to be on a promotion list for sergeant or staff sergeant, but they must meet the requirements.
http://www.armytimes.com/article/201...staff-sergeant
Scimitar
08-04-2014, 19:32
That is incorrect.
Thanks Cric, info is better than rumor.
Accurate details below.
E4 ==> E5 upon graduation from Q
E5 ==> E6 TIS and TIG waived
I want to say 18x got E3 ==> E4 after 9 months...?
S
WarriorDiplomat
08-04-2014, 19:45
Ahh so they retained people they should not have. I see your point on that one.
As for the Tats I am VERY aware of the significance of them. I work in a prison, however DOD has their head up their ass on how they are dealing with it. No visible tats? Who gives a shit, I don't. It means NOTHING other than pretty looks. What I DO care about is the gang tats that are on the chest etc that do meet regulations. Instead of using information that is out there and finding the gang members and dumb asses they make a sweeping rule that means nothing, punishes many innocent, and does not address the problem. How about this, No tats that are known as a gang affiliation. EDUCATE command on what to look for at all levels. BTW I have zero tats, never seen the attraction to them.
DoD has always had their heads up their butts when it comes to realistic policies, they bend them when retention sucks at critical times. Agreed allowing this to be OK during GWOT then when the GWOT winds down to shadow company type operations and then after they have used the soldiers kicking them out for too many is ridiculous. Especially if the soldier is a great trooper and has done nothing wrong except get some tattoos that DoD no longer thinks is acceptable after the fact is well ridiculous.
Working in a prison you definitely understand the significance of tats as far as the criminal element and affiliations. I grew up on the other side of the law enforcement coin and know full well the significance on the streets and in social groups of tats as well as family and friends bouncing in and out of prison. I am like you do not have any and have never really wanted them and it is true that today it is a social norm for everyone to have them...... in the U.S. anyway. Like I said without getting too deep into my observations and understanding I will write a through paper on it and post it.
Damn I owe two papers one being the destructiveness to governments and citizens of corporations and this topic.
WarriorDiplomat
08-04-2014, 19:55
Thanks Cric, info is better than rumor.
Accurate details below.
E4 ==> E5 upon graduation from Q
E5 ==> E6 TIS and TIG waived
I want to say 18x got E3 ==> E4 after 9 months...?
S
The E6 waivers may still exist but I assure you that today the 18 series soldiers are not just given E6 like they have been for the bulk of GWOT when Iraq ended soldiers have been going to promotion boards only if the Team Sgt thinks they have performed to the standard of an E6. I can't speak on the points but as of today I can tell you there are E5's in Groups who have over 4 yrs TIS. And as a Q-course cadre we have E3's coming through training with over a year+ in the Army.
WarriorDiplomat
08-05-2014, 06:43
That's already a policy. Having seen a few disguised in other tribal art many are hard to distinguish, especially 1%er tats when hidden in SF tats.
I agree the visible tat policy is about appearances, but tats on hands and neck are unprofessional. They especially have no place in SF of all places where maintaining a low signature/not standing out/blending in is somewhat important (unless your missions amounts to the same stuff that a squad of 18-24 y/o Rangers or paratroopers can accomplish.)
Excellent, agreed 100%. :lifter
A cook could go to intel school as a SGT and after graduation be a SSG and be incharge of a BN S2 shop and have never done a thing in intel.
That is the rub. Yes some will do well but many others will not from what I have seen in the past.
At least at the BN level there would most likely be others to guide or mentor him/her but on a SOT-A, that's a different story with very little room for error and carry greater consequences.
...I want to say 18x got E3 ==> E4 after 9 months...?
S
In 1974 the SF Enlistment Option (similar to the 18X program) could - if you went straight through from basic to SFQC grad as an 11B/12B - get you PFC in 9 months. CPL at 2 years.
Have to check my LES's for the rest of the dates.
hmmmm, can officers do this too?:D Electronic warfare, cyber defense, intel, signal...these are hot fields for years to come!
I suspect that with the current RIF process, many NCO's, WO's & O's will be looking for side-slide re-class ANYTHING, just to save their A$$'s.
Back to the Brown Shoe Army,, for a while.. :mad: