View Full Version : Gun safety in the home
Kyobanim
12-08-2004, 20:10
The end of the year is coming and it's time to re-open the subject of a gun in the house here. My own personnal Osamma bin Momma is just about convinced that it's a good idea since home invasions are back in vogue in central florida. There is an 11 y.o. boy in the house.
I need to balance safely securing the weapon with having it accessable. There are a ton of options out there and I need advice, please.
shadowflyer
12-08-2004, 20:51
I keep my long guns locked up with individual locks through the chambers and I also have a small pistol (GunGuard) safe with a hand lock on the top of it for my H/K USP 40. The combination is input with your fingers. There is a layout that your hand lays right on and you use your fingers to punch in a combo. If the combo is input wrong 3 times the safe locks out and can only be opened with backup key. I have twin 4 yr olds and I feel very safe with using the safes I have. I have quick less than 5 second access to my pistol.
Hope that helps.
JJ
STR8SHTR
12-08-2004, 21:16
I keep all of my long guns and most of my handguns locked in the big safe. I keep my duty handgun in this Gun Vault (http://www.gunvault.com/multistandard.asp) which is close to my side of the bed. I have two kids at home and I have to be careful.
I also use the GunGuard and am very pleased with the balance of security and accessibility it offers. Also, don't forget to secure your ammo.
Sacamuelas
12-08-2004, 21:51
KYO-
I know I am preaching to the choir... But some people lurking may read this and may place to much faith in these devices verses their kids minds. I will use your circumstances ONLY as an example to illustrate my point.
IMO, The #1 thing you can do to ensure safety for your 11 yr old boy is to teach him proper gun handling and safety rules. Of course, safeguard your guns however you can within reason... but if you take away the "forbidden" allure of the guns by getting them out for him and showing him the proper respect for them then he may not feel the need to "sneak" it out when you are away.
That is how I was raised. Anytime I wanted to see my dad's guns (pistols, shotguns, rifles), he got them out for me. He Cleared/checked it... handed it to me... made me clear/check it... then preached nonstop vigilance about always pointing it in a safe direction and treating it as if it was loaded. I always had access to the guns through my dad, and they weren't considered some kind of secret holy grail of adulthood to me.
Again, preaching to the choir... but worth it to comment on it I think. An 11 yr old can probably defeat most safety contraptions if he has the desire and is if given enough time. I'm not saying don't utilize safe storage techiniques, just don't forget to tackle the other side of the coin. After all, he will be going to friends houses that may not be as smart as you about their firearm storage. Better that he knows...
Hijack over...
The Reaper
12-08-2004, 22:04
Saca:
That is exactly what I have done with my kids.
You gun proof the kids, not childproof the guns.
My kids have their own .22LR Chipmunk in the safe, and can see anything I have, all they have to do is ask. They can shoot any firearm I have as well, all they have to do is ask. They know how to clear and check most firearms as well, and are pretty good shots to boot.
My son did learn at age five that a .300 Win Mag is a bit much for him to be shooting off the bench, even with Dad helping, but hey, he learned from it. Both like shooting the ARs, especially with the .22LR conversion.
TR
Saca and TR are absolutely right. If I had to pick only one between giving the kids a good gun education/demystification, or a badass locking gizmo, I'll take the education any day.
Kids are smart, and they're paying attention when you think they aren't. If they're curious enough, they'll figure out how to open anything you keep your firearms in. The key is, as TR said, taking the kids out, teaching them firearms safety, and letting them shoot. Hell, do it a bunch of times (it's a good excuse for the wife: 'Hey baby, I have to take the kids shooting some more. Education, you know....'). :D Once they know what it feels like, how it works, and the destructive power of it, they'll be a lot more respectful and won't feel the 'hey, I wonder what it's like to play with that thing!' drive that they would otherwise.
The locking gizmos don't hurt. But they're the backup, not the primary.
Team Sergeant
12-09-2004, 08:59
I keep all of my long guns and most of my handguns locked in the big safe. I keep my duty handgun in this Gun Vault (http://www.gunvault.com/multistandard.asp) which is close to my side of the bed. I have two kids at home and I have to be careful.
I've been using a Gunvault for about 4 years now. It gets opened and closed about 3-5 times a day. I also keep a 1000 lb gunsafe for everything else. I'd recommend a Gunvault to anyone one with kids. I really have not yet seen a better product on the market.
TS
sandytroop
12-09-2004, 09:14
Exactly as you fellows suggest, my agency actually teaches new guys to introduce the kids and guns, eliminate the mystery, and hammer the safety issue home.
I also have little kids... boys, 8 and 4, aka The Cyclone Brothers. My 8 wanted to see the guns, so I got them out and, because he is HUGE into robots, I disassembled my Gov't Model and showed him the mechanical relationships. He loved all the mechanicals, but then I tossed in the ringer "Hey buddy, as long as it's all apart, lets clean it up a little." So we did, the whole "detailed wipe" with hoppes etc. Then we oiled it, and reassembled it. By the end he was clearly getting a bit antsy. Next time, I repeated this procedure. Now, I ask him "Hey Jacky, you want to see the guns?" he's like "Uh, no dad, that's cool." I swear, if he even smells Hoppes now he would probably take off out the back door.
Momma caught his 4 yo brother stabbing a box of cereal with a butter knife recently... I'm not at all sure if there's any teaching technique for that outside of "Stop stabbing my cereal boxes! Go to your room!" (Hey, ya gotta start where they are, right?)
Roguish Lawyer
12-09-2004, 11:30
I spent literally weeks trying to buy a gunvault and finally gave up -- every Internet site on earth and every gun store in SoCal was out of stock. So I bought a different safe for my handguns. Long guns are out of kids' reach (they are only 4 and 2) with cable locks on them and ammo stored in a distant and inaccessible location, but I am getting a large long-gun safe shortly.
At what age should child gun training begin? So far, I have just told my oldest that guns are not toys and that he should never touch a gun without a grown-up's supervision and never point a gun at anybody.
Hey TS, can I get one of those in multicam? :D
Trip_Wire (RIP)
12-09-2004, 16:05
KYO-
I know I am preaching to the choir... But some people lurking may read this and may place to much faith in these devices verses their kids minds. I will use your circumstances ONLY as an example to illustrate my point.
IMO, The #1 thing you can do to ensure safety for your 11 yr old boy is to teach him proper gun handling and safety rules. Of course, safeguard your guns however you can within reason... but if you take away the "forbidden" allure of the guns by getting them out for him and showing him the proper respect for them then he may not feel the need to "sneak" it out when you are away.
That is how I was raised. Anytime I wanted to see my dad's guns (pistols, shotguns, rifles), he got them out for me. He Cleared/checked it... handed it to me... made me clear/check it... then preached nonstop vigilance about always pointing it in a safe direction and treating it as if it was loaded. I always had access to the guns through my dad, and they weren't considered some kind of secret holy grail of adulthood to me.
Again, preaching to the choir... but worth it to comment on it I think. An 11 yr old can probably defeat most safety contraptions if he has the desire and is if given enough time. I'm not saying don't utilize safe storage techiniques, just don't forget to tackle the other side of the coin. After all, he will be going to friends houses that may not be as smart as you about their firearm storage. Better that he knows...
Hijack over...
I agree with your post 100% My four kids were handeled this way, during my 34 Years as a LEO and 30+ in the military.
:)
Danny Muj
10-27-2008, 01:55
Tons of good stuff for us dads to consider on this thread (stuff that doesn't age since 2004). I've only just begun developing our own "gun SOP" for our home as the kids are now a bit older and we'll soon be in a place that allows guns.
I heard something last night though, that had never crossed my mind. Whether or not allowing our kids to play with toy guns helps or hinders in our quest to raise gun-savvy kids.
A Marine was relating a childhood memory to me of how he was forbidden from playing with TOY guns or making makeshift "guns" out of sticks, PVC pipes etc. (a near impossible request of any boy, I imagine).
His father's theory was that his exposure to guns would be supervised by himself 100% of the time and that allowing his son to play with TOY guns would detract from building and reinforcing good weapons handling habits. So he forbade it. His son's only exposure to guns would be feeling the recoil on the range, hearing the muffled blast through his earpro and seeing the gaping, bloody hole it could leave in a game animal and so on.
Although my dad raised me with guns nearly the same way, I was not prohibited from playing with TOY guns. I want to be careful, however, in assuming that my own experience as a youngster is the BEST thing for my kids.
(Caveat. I'm referring to inappropriate toy gunplay (shooting people), not playing Davy Crockett fending off a bear)
Still undecided on this one.
This thread touches on two important topics. #1., Gun safety in the home and #2., home security. Nothing I can add to gun safety that has not been addressed so...
I think all would agree the best defense is a defense in depth with multiple layers overlapping, supporting and complimenting each other. First, lock your house door's at night and even when you are home during the day. Lock all first floor windows at night. Sleep with your primary means of Commo next to your bed...cell phone or land line. Install motion activated lights all around the perimeter of the house; install them on out buildings and sheds as well. Deny bad guys cover by keeping shrubs and bushes near the house well trimmed. Invest in a very loud alarm system tied into your local LE and have the key pad installed in your bedroom. Buy a dog...if circumstances do not permit a dog...go to a pet shop and buy the biggest dog dish you can find and leave it in the most likely avenue of approach for any bad guy to see. If you do buy a dog; a 130lb man stopper is not necessary --just a dog that barks when alerted. When you see local/State LE, introduce yourself and let them know who you are etc...get the phone number to the dispatch desk not just 911. It's your decision if you want to tell them about the firearms you have in the house...some people may want to keep that on the down-low ;). Train your spouse on how to use the home defense weapon of choice. Develop a plan to defend the house if all above fails. I tell my wife (recently diagnosed as pregnant with our 1st BTW) that all she needs to do is defend the bedroom and call the cops and stay on the line as long as is practical. If the bad guy makes it through all the above (not to mention a big guard dog) then he is motivated and truly dangerous and not some crackhead looking for loose change. Train her to shoot until the threat stops moving...completley.
Just some tips...any others???
Danny Muj
10-27-2008, 09:11
Now you get to join in making all the "fun" decisions that kids necessitate. Yay!
:o
I agree with Saca, TR and the rest, the best firearm safety is instruction. I don't worry about my children. They have been shooting since they where very young. I worry about other peoples children. Ignorance is dangerous.
I would say teach the children young and pay attention to them and their behavior. WHY? because we are not all equal and there are just some people who should never have possession of a firearm.
A locked firearm is a safe firearm for the criminal too.
Old school thinking is, the real safety on a firearm, is the person holding it.
Adomenico
10-27-2008, 14:27
I have to agree with everything presented here especially Saca and TR. My father raised me to respect guns and taught me from a very young age gun safety. It truly was the best thing since it not only made for a household that had both guns and children in it safely but gave me something I carry with me today. I can also say that it prevented any of my friends from ever thinking to pick up a gun in my families house due to my own understanding and respect of fire arms. For any others reading I keep my rifles in the safe in my home office and have a safe like the one shown with the fingerprint reader by the bed for my XD.
Detonics
10-27-2008, 23:18
Teach them & dispel the mystery. Secure storage is a must in today's world.
circa 1972- 13 year old and his Mom home with Dad working swing shift. Screech of tires, young girl runs up on the front porch topless, nose bleeding screaming for help through the screen door. Mom lets girl in and is trying to close the front door as male runs up kicks the screen & starts to push his foot on the mesh. Mom bolts from door extremely frightened. Man reconsiders upon hearing round racked into BHP.
Man.... those SuperVel would've been loud inside the house! :D
I don't remember how old I was when I new that there was a gun under the folks mattress. I new what it was, what it did and that I wasn't to touch it or let anyone else touch it and Dad started me shooting at about age 5. Maybe this was negligence on Dad's part. Hell, he didn't even put me in a "baby carrier" and we went cross country several times on vacation with NO SEATBELT in the car!
Sorry if I digress.
I am in the market for a big safe.
http://www.patriotsafe.com/gun-safes-30wide.html looks to be a good deal.
Anyone have experience with Patriot Safes or have a recommendation for a good safe company?
Team Sergeant
01-31-2009, 19:15
I am in the market for a big safe.
http://www.patriotsafe.com/gun-safes-30wide.html looks to be a good deal.
Anyone have experience with Patriot Safes or have a recommendation for a good safe company?
Free shipping ends at your driveway, remember that.;)
When I asked friend that is a locksmith what is a good safe to buy, he asked how much money can you spend and what is the purpose. The more you spend the better safe you get and mentioned that Cabellas had some good safes. He also told me any safe can be broken into.
Here is an interesting thread on safes:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=412691
Personally, I am limited for space, I didn't have $1000 plus for a Cabellas safe so I picked up a 14 rifle SentrySafe. As safes go it is low end, but it keeps my little ones from the guns which was why I wanted it.
If someone wants to steal it, they are going to have to get it loose from 1/2 x 5" Wedg-it concrete anchors and 1/2 lag screws in the wall....while they are dealing with the dog and snoopy neighbors on all sides. If they drill it, I am screwed.
My buddy Jerry makes finely crafted access doors and access panels that look like part of a wall....add that with a good safe and your guns would probably be as secure as you could get them without a Armed Guard.
Good luck!
The Reaper
02-08-2009, 12:27
The best advise I can give is when I was younger than 11 my father (carrer army) took me shooting, and gave me my first weapon I was taught at that age that weapons are safe as long as they are respected and realized they are not toys.
Since I have been married I have gotten houshold 6 a number of rifles and hand guns and she knows how to use them.
So the bottom line is education, if the weapon is locked up in Ft Knox you might as well not have one.
Hey, SSG Mac, you might want to go back and read the rules and stickies on this board before posting again. You missed a few steps.
TR
bushmaster11
09-16-2012, 19:17
I have 2 girls., I started teaching them that guns were dangerous. They were only to be used on a range and to protect oneself. I showed them my guns, handguns as well as long guns. I did not lock them up. But to reinforce my telling them how dangerous guns were, I did not allow them any toy guns, PERIOD. They knew what they were, so if they saw them, they did not become curious. As they became teenagers, I let them know that whenever they were interested, we would go to a range. Only one showed any interest. They are now in their late 20s and the youngest is the only one to shoot on a regular basis, and she prefers the 1911. Is thinking about competition. She has her own 9mm and a 1911. The eldest did eventually want to shoot, preferring a .38, but has no interest in owning one. This worked for me and neither my wife or I ever worried about gun safety. I started early with safety and practiced it.
J R sends
De Oppresso Liber
Guns all over my house (except when the 5 year old grandson comes over). All my kids grew up knowing gun safety. There are guns strategically placed throughout my house without concern. Educate, Educate, Educate is the answer to gun safety with small children.
The 5 year old is almost old enough to start his education and it's a pleasure educating the future generation.
kaewstihs
09-16-2012, 21:06
Education is key, but availability and familiarity also helps. My dad has had at one point in my life 60+ (I had the luxury of moving the bulk of them and the ammunition once or twice) functioning unsecured firearms in the house. I've been taught as far back as I can remember that firearms aren't toys that you treat casually and they must always be respected.
I can honestly say that he did the right thing by not making them the "forbidden fruit" that I could never get my hands on. I had access to them 24/7 (had a old semiauto Savage 12 gauge that I used for squirrel hunting at 12 that I kept in a corner of my room) so I didn't have the urge to mess with them because they were readily available any time I wanted them.
556 Shooter
12-07-2012, 13:57
I started teaching my son about guns and the safe handling, proper use, dis assembly /cleaning and safe storage when he was 4yrs old and did the same with my daughter. I would take them shooting 1 to 5 times a week and I never worried about my kids getting into my guns. My son is now in the Army gong through Scout tryouts and then Ranger school and my daughter is in college to be an Orthopedic Surgeon and attends weapons classes with me.
The morale of the story: Teach the kids about weapons and there proper use and take them out and shoot.:D
highspeedmdd
12-29-2012, 10:12
Team Sergeant, might want to watch the video below. The safe can be rapidly accessed in short order. I am looking for something fool proof for my wife and striking out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovjvy0FTxBY&list=UUh2mgLapvQ7psOWQKb2a8xQ&index=5
.
I've been using a Gunvault for about 4 years now. It gets opened and closed about 3-5 times a day. I also keep a 1000 lb gunsafe for everything else. I'd recommend a Gunvault to anyone one with kids. I really have not yet seen a better product on the market.
TS
Team Sergeant, might want to watch the video below. The safe can be rapidly accessed in short order. I am looking for something fool proof for my wife and striking out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovjvy0FTxBY&list=UUh2mgLapvQ7psOWQKb2a8xQ&index=5
Take a look at the Ft Knox Pistol box. Not completely secure but has many more features than the gunvaults.
Heavier steel, and the locking mech is much better.
https://www.ftknox.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=54
Team Sergeant
12-30-2012, 11:02
Team Sergeant, might want to watch the video below. The safe can be rapidly accessed in short order. I am looking for something fool proof for my wife and striking out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovjvy0FTxBY&list=UUh2mgLapvQ7psOWQKb2a8xQ&index=5
I don't think there ia any foolproof safes out there. But I would still put a gunvault against a 5 year old any day.....;) What the video fails to mention is that the kids would have to see the inside in order to have a glimmer of hope in defeating it.
I can also open my 1000 safe in about 5 seconds but it makes noise when opening. (Bolts moving.)
Saca and TR are absolutely right. If I had to pick only one between giving the kids a good gun education/demystification, or a badass locking gizmo, I'll take the education any day.
I grew up with long guns stored in a gun rack on the bedroom wall, unloaded, but with the ammo in boxes in a sliding drawer under the rack. Nothing was locked, and none of us kids killed anyone or went on any rampages... We grew up with pretty much constant access to firearms. Hunting was normally done as a hunt of opportunity. If it came out, we killed it, and ate it. If we killed it, we ate it. Other than hunting or target shooting and cleaning, we didn't screw with guns. We were taught what guns were for, and we had a sense of personal responsibility. Something a lot of kids these days are not taught. We didn't have many other kids over, but those that did come over were also children of hunters that taught their children the same.
Teach your children well, and like was said... take the mystique out of them by allowing the kids to shoot them, so if needed, they can defend themselves should they be home alone, and something happen.
GROG
I did a lot of research before buying a small handgun safe and ended up buying a LockSAF biometric unit. As far as security goes, it's been top notch. Customer service is great, because the owner does most if not all of the customer service.
Problem is, the biometrics don't work for me. You can scan multiple digits for back up but for whatever reason I have a hard time opening the safe with my fingerprints which is a major bummer. The lock is a crucible type (4 sided key) so it's damn near impossible to pick. Quick to open if you have the keys.
I'd suggest it despite the fact that I've had my problems with it. The owner of LockSAF has been good to me and the durability of the unit makes it badass.
Home gun safety, to me, means one is accessible in every room.
Greetings All
I dont have a gun culture in my home even though I have been in the Army for 8 years now and combat arms the entire time. My children know I carry and that I believe strongly in 2nd Ammendment rights etc (and all rights for that matter).
Having said that we take safety very seriously. The steps I have taken are as follows:
All firearms have their bolts removed and are in a heavy safe in the basement. The heavy safe is covered with a cardboard box so it isnt such an attractive "to go" box for burglers.
I maintain positive control of firearms period. There are no handguns left laying around my house, bedside table, under pillow etc. If I do disarm, handguns go in the safe. If a handgun is ever to be left out of a safe it is dissassembled and the pin goes into my pocket even if that means me taking a shower (pants folded on the floor of course).
All children have been through hunter safety.
All children get the "what if" talk about guns in friends homes.
All childrens friends parents are spoken with about guns in the home, computers, and what our rules are.
When we go out to eat, movie or elsewhere Ill often ask my children or wife a hypothetical active shooter problem for the room we are in and see what they would do. I point out exits, and evasion etc.
When I was a child a teenasge next door neighbor blew his friends arm off with his fathers shotgun (the kid died). I tell that story to my children and show them every story of firearm and handgun stupidity local to our area.
I bought a few gun - trigger locks including the ones the local police were issueing free, and promptly destroyed each one within 5 minutes. Something my 10 year old boy could easily duplicate. I did that demonstration at the local police station with their trigger and a plastic M9 much to their dismay.
I have more to learn Im sure. This is a great thread and a subject that can never be too old or unworthy.
In fact, I have been thinking of printing out afirearm safety flyer and distributing them in my neighborhood with bullet points from this thread and elsewhere.
Thanks all-
v/r
Home gun safety, to me, means one is accessible in every room.
Only one? ;)
Old Dog New Trick
01-17-2013, 14:44
Greetings All
SNIP
I have more to learn Im sure. This is a great thread and a subject that can never be too old or unworthy.
In fact, I have been thinking of printing out afirearm safety flyer and distributing them in my neighborhood with bullet points from this thread and elsewhere.
Thanks all-
v/r
I think you should sell your guns, right away!
They are of no use to you and your family if you are that afraid they will be improperly used in your household.
You are teaching your kids to fear them, not respect them for the lethal items they are.
JMO, YMMV
I think you should sell your guns, right away!
They are of no use to you and your family if you are that afraid they will be improperly used in your household.
You are teaching your kids to fear them, not respect them for the lethal items they are.
JMO, YMMV
You have never rmet me, my family, or been in my home, so have no idea what I have or have not taught my children-
The Reaper
01-20-2013, 14:17
Do you do the same thing with your power tools, cars, etc?
These are also tools that can kill or be misused.
My kids know I have loaded guns out and they know how (and when) to access and use them. When visiting kids are here, they are kept out of areas with firearms (and power tools, etc.).
My rules apply here in my house, as yours do in yours, though I would probably not answer your questions about my guns, storage, condition, etc.
I guess that according to your rules, your kids would not be allowed to visit here. I think that is your prerogative as a parent.
I sincerely hope that you never see the day when you (or a family member) needs a functioning firearm immediately and cannot get to one.
TR
Old Dog New Trick
01-20-2013, 19:56
You have never rmet me, my family, or been in my home, so have no idea what I have or have not taught my children-
I can only base my assessment on what you posted and what you posted gave me the inclination to say what I said. It was not meant in disrespect, just advice.
You can live anyway you want to, and teach your family whatever you chose; it's a free country!
I was just pointing out that respecting something like a firearm is different than being afraid them - to the point of making them completely inoperable and then going even further to locking them up.
Some of my guns are locked up in a heavy safe, and some are not. Some are empty and others are fully loaded and ready for use. A gun void of ammunition (or a firing pin) makes a poor blunt object or a heavy paperweight.
My wife knows how to use all of them, and my five-year-old son knows not to mess with them, and what to do if he finds one - anywhere. I trust both of them to do the right thing. That's the lessons I teach them.
My wife has known me long enough to always sit with her back to the door in a public area, it's nice not having to explain - hypotheticals. I hope someday you get there too. :D
Again, YMMV and that's okay. :)
My wife has known me long enough to always sit with her back to the door in a public area, it's nice not having to explain - hypotheticals. I hope someday you get there too. :D
Again, YMMV and that's okay. :)
After 22 months in Iraq and Afghanistan my wife and children know exactly where I want to sit no matter where we are, trust me.
Both you and the Colonel make some interesting points to be sure.
But I have no need to keep loaded firearms unattended all over my house. I am always armed meaning my firearm is on my person .So you see, I always have "immediate access" to a functioning firearm.
I believe in positive control of firearms as I learned in the Infantry, and just as I continue to learn from the 18 series types (and others) I live with, work, and fight for.
I also do not believe any 5 year old child, no matter who his or her father, is mature enough to understand with true depth and weight the repercussions of his or her actions fully (with respect to grave consequences) let alone able to concieve their own mortality or that of others.
For that matter most of the 18-25 year olds I served with in Iraq couldnt conceive their own mortality even when some of us began to be killed.
Firearms that arent being carried etc in my honest opinion should be dissassembled and locked.
As far as my children being allowed to play in someones home that has unattended loaded guns laying around: no, I would not permit that if I was informed thus able to make that decision-
Respectfully
Firearms that arent being carried etc in my honest opinion should be dissassembled and locked.
Respectfully disagree.
A 14 year old kid inherits the duty of vacuuming as part of his chores. "Dad, I need to vacuum under the bed" = Dad, you need to move the shotgun.
On a corner lot, a stranger comes to the home's back sliding door, rather than either of the two available doors facing the streets. Mom answers the door, and the stranger asks if the house down the street is for sale. (Century 21 sign plainly posted, with agent's phone number.) A little chit-chat follows about the neighborhood, until the stranger abruptly leaves.
PD receives a call 5 minutes later that stranger went to next house, unoccupied, somehow entered the house and was "handing stuff" to another guy carrying stuff to a van.
The caller was the 14 year old. The would-be burglar's abrupt departure appears to have been caused by the transport of a 12 gauge from Dad's bedroom to the vicinity of the sliding doors "pointed mostly at the floor" under the "only if you have to" clause concerning touching a gun in the house.
I know that first hand. I'm the Dad.
PedOncoDoc
01-23-2013, 05:10
I also do not believe any 5 year old child, no matter who his or her father, is mature enough to understand with true depth and weight the repercussions of his or her actions fully (with respect to grave consequences) let alone able to concieve their own mortality or that of others.
I will have to strongly disagree with this statement, both as the father of 3 and the healthcare provider for countless children with life-threatening and, unfortunately all-too-often, terminal diseases.
If you shelter your children from death, including the death of children, they will not learn. My children used to ask me why I came home some days and just wanted to hug them for a few minutes - I was very open about losing a young patient (often near my childrens' ages) and what that meant. We also discussed the Sandy Hook tragedy at good length. They do not live in fear of dying, but also comprehend their own mortality.
Now, if I've had a "rough day in the office", they just hug away, and let me know they're saying prayers for that child and his/her family. They also know there are loaded firearms in the house, know not to touch them without appropriate supervision (or specific permission in my oldest's case), and know that they are safe.
Having said that, there are a few children in our neighborhood with whom we do not allow our children to play outside of our home due to a consistent lack of parental supervision/involvement and consistent demonstration of poor decision making skills by the child. I do not know or care what dangers lie in these children's homes - I know there is no one in that hyome willing to stop a child from making bad choices. These children are welcome to play in our home, but they are expected to follow our rules. Strangely, these particular children don't want to play here - likely because they don't like being held accountable for their actions and are not used to disclipline (of which they are in desparate need).
Jethro113
01-23-2013, 06:05
Gun Education is paramount. safety is also, but they are intertwined. I dont think you can have one without the other, and be successful in protecting your children. You can tell a child all day long how a gun should be handled, but if you fail to follow through with some actual hands on, it's all a moot point IMO. I, too, have an 800 lb 2 hour safe, but we consistently take the boy to the range and educate him, along with the wife. He shoots our SA .40's and the .380 well....better than some adults. He also gets taught safe handling and cleaning. We started with the BB guns. Even those were handled as real guns. He put it on safe after firing, he points it in a safe direction, and we even had him clear it, and store it in the safe to learn his "safe habits"
I too, believe that if you educate them, the curiosity factor is lowered, thus lowering any chance of an unforeseen accident. Parental supervision, along with good discussions, and range time, will allow a child to learn respect for a weapon and will only make your house safer and more confortable....especially when it comes to Mothers...
Good traits are taught, learned, and passed on to the next generation. Alot of kids nowadays, only worry about XBOX, PS3, and TV.....Most dont have a clue.
Mine does......
Stiletto11
01-23-2013, 18:59
I'm with TR on this. My kids were introduced to firearms at a very young age. They were taught safety and knew that if they wanted to see or shoot a gun all they had to do was ask. They grew up respecting them and also knew that they could have a lot of recreational fun shooting. There was no mystique and it became a common place in our family to shoot together. Today, I am proud that as young men, they are responsible gun owners and enjoy the shooting sports. I also know that they do NOT take for granted the right to keep and bear arms. They also know that many men, better than I, died face down in the mud to preserve all the rights that they have the honor to hold.
Ambush Master
01-23-2013, 19:50
ALL,
There are pictures of my oldest, now an 18C, in here of him pretending to shoot my M-60 while still in diapers. I have videos of him and my other two shooting it while only 4-5 years old.
When they were old enough to tell me, during the day, that they needed to go to the bathroom, they went Mule Deer hunting with me in the Davis Mountains in West Texas. We camped out @ about the 5K foot level and hunted from a Baby Blazer. They learned how to shoot a Beretta Mod 21 using CB Caps and a Browning BL-22 .22 LR Rifle. They always had hearing protection on when either of us made a shot, and saw what a Firearm did to flesh.
Both of my sons hold CHLs and carry. My daughter put her mother on notice that when she turned 18 she would make a Tandem Parachute Jump and did, but also that when she turns 21 she will get her CHL and WILL CARRY!!
The only times I ever worried about the guns that are scattered around was/is when their friends were/are in the house. I do keep a majority locked in the safe, but there are "Grabbers" stashed in hidey holes around the place.
Education and Familiarity are the safest and best way to go, with both Kids and Adults when it comes to Firearms!!
Later
Martin
Stiletto11
01-25-2013, 17:10
It's funny, because when one of my boys was 6, he was shooting a .22 when we found out he was opposite eye dominant; gave us plenty of opportunity to work it out. I can still see him crossing his eye over the scope :D
Surgicalcric
01-25-2013, 20:31
Home gun safety, to me, means one is accessible in every room.
Simply yet well stated Brother.
I was at a gun show here in MS back in Dec. A lady walked up to a dealer that I was talking to and asked if there was anyone at the gun show that sold gun safes, she wanted to get for her husband for Christmas so that he could lock up all of his guns. The dealer looked at her for a second and said, "Ma'am, why would he want to do that? It's like putting a lock on a fire extinguisher!"
Gun safety in my home. My wife knows where all guns are and where all the ammo is located. Most of my guns locked in a gun safe except for the personal protection firearms. They are loaded and the wife knows how to use them.
As for family they know how to use everyone safely, this includes my 2 grandsons who have safely fired all my guns.
As for other guests, keep out of the sensitive areas, doors are closed and they aren't allow in, Period.
Oh, Yes, wife is extremely adept with the aluminum ball bat by the bed.;)
mikem04rubi
03-26-2013, 20:45
I keep all of my long guns and most of my handguns locked in the big safe. I keep my duty handgun in this Gun Vault (http://www.gunvault.com/multistandard.asp) which is close to my side of the bed. I have two kids at home and I have to be careful.
same exact setup here
As a 11 year old boy I had my own guns, a browning 12 autoloader and a .22 rifle. Everything was always 'out'.
Teach your kid how to act around them. My brother (10th Gp) now a Detective has a 13 year old, he puts his service pistol on the kitchen counter, his boy knows you never, never touch Dad's gun.
I lock my guns up when out in a large safe bolted to the concrete floor....when home, they are out.
If I have to reach into a safe, or key a pad, I'm wasitng time.
I was never happier as a child, as I was when my father bought me a gun rack for my room. I was 12 and started hunting that year. The rack held three long guns and had sliding drawers on the bottom for boxes of ammo. No locks needed or warrented. We were simply taught to respect weapons, and when to use them, and to never play with them. I had a 22 rifle for small game, 16ga dbl barrel, and 32 win spcl for deer. The rack was full, and I didn't need or want anything else.
That, my friends, was freedom.
ZonieDiver
03-27-2013, 14:20
I was never happier as a child, as I was when my father bought me a gun rack for my room. I was 12 and started hunting that year. The rack held three long guns and had sliding drawers on the bottom for boxes of ammo. No locks needed or warrented. We were simply taught to respect weapons, and when to use them, and to never play with them. I had a 22 rifle for small game, 16ga dbl barrel, and 32 win spcl for deer. The rack was full, and I didn't need or want anything else.
That, my friends, was freedom.
Same for me, though I was 11. Three weapons were in it: Savage .22 slide action (octagonal barrel), Stoeger Arms .22 bolt action, with bird shot adapter, and my first 'rifle': Daisy Red Ryder lever action "you'll shoot your eye out" (though I never did) BB gun.
I was free to go whenever I wished, accompanied or alone. I had to seek permission to access my step-dad's Remington 12 guage, and rarely did.
Birds in the barn were dispatched with the BB gun. Rabbits and other vermin in the growing Christmas trees were dispatched with .22 birdshot. Squirrels felt the wrath of the Savage. (No scopes... couldn't afford one, and would have laughed at anyone having one...)
I was 12 when I received my first rifle - my Dad's old deer gun - a Winchester 44-40...a pretty good brush gun with little recoil. I received my rifle in exchange for getting all "A's" on my report card for the year.
I was taught safe handling procedures, spent days at the range (sand pit with Dad) and was allowed to keep - my rifle - in my room. I was so proud. I was expected to keep it and my Dad's other rifles clean and oiled. Of course, I was also required to shine his shoes every Sunday night!
If I received all "A's" - next year -...then, I would get "cartridges" !! LOL !!!
BB guns - rifles and a CO2 pistol were already in my rotation.
http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2013/03/27/program-to-provide-residents-with-free-shotguns-to-defend-against-criminals/
TUCSON, Ariz. (CBS Las Vegas/AP) — A former mayoral candidate in Tucson, Ariz., is launching a privately funded program to provide residents of a crime-prone area with free shotguns so they can defend themselves against criminals.
Shaun McClusky says the program modeled after one recently launched in Houston would provide training and enough money to buy a basic shotgun to residents who pass background checks. McClusky’s program has so far raised $12,000.
McClusky says citizens need to do more to protect themselves because city government is failing to do the job.
“We need to take back our city, and it needs to come back to the citizens and not the criminals,” McClusky told the Arizona Daily Star. “Right now, the criminal element is winning.”
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