View Full Version : 1000 NG deploying to Border
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2014/07/21/Our-Citizens-are-Under-Siege-Perry-Sends-National-Guard-to-Border
Now what? I don't know if I should be happy about the deployment or really concerned about the first US soldiers to get killed by the Cartel on US soil. Seems to me the Cartel is going to look at this and really bring the battle to us.
EDIT for clarification on my thoughts:
Is this the right answer?
If it is why? If not, how would you secure the border? Or how could it be a better decision? ie Different units/troops/methods/numbers?
What is the definition of a "win" for a secure border and end or mitigation to Human and Drug Trafficking? (How to stop Cartel flow of weapons, money, people, and leadership)
What are the short and long term affects of this decision by Gov Perry for TX and the US relationship with Mexico?
NurseTim
07-21-2014, 17:18
Not near enough. Aren't some of those troops, support troops? It's not like a 1000 counter snipers, right? I'll be the first to admit, I don't know shit from shinola about tactics or logistics, but it seems like not near enough.
Brush Okie, "So you think doing nothing and letting the cartels bend us over and well you get the picture is the way to go? Please tell me how appeasing a bunch of drug runners is in our best interest? I would like to be enlightened on how that would work to our advantage."
Dc seems to think this works pretty well with regular old terrorist so it stands to reason that it can't be much different for narcoterrorism, right?
The Reaper
07-21-2014, 17:21
With 12 hour per day shifts, that would equate to 1 soldier per 2.5 miles.
I would prefer to see them mobilize more and seal the border.
TR
Surf n Turf
07-21-2014, 19:47
With 12 hour per day shifts, that would equate to 1 soldier per 2.5 miles.
I would prefer to see them mobilize more and seal the border.
TR
TR,
As it stands now, the State of Texas is picking up the tab for the deployment. They estimate $12 million per month. I would suspect that because of this the State is limited in what it can afford.
Gov. Perry says he is going to bill the Feds, after the fact. I wouldn't hold my breath with this administration covering that bill. :mad:
SnT
I like and respect my Governor, though I believe he should have made this decision several years ago.
If it weren't a shame it'd be hilarious that he used the words "federal" and "responsibility" in the same sentence, saying that the former should have the latter.
He said "up to" 1000 Soldiers were authorized to be mobilized in the video. I can only hope that they mobilize 19th group, and maybe the 36th ID LRRS as well.
Does anyone have any good idea of how the Cartel's will respond to this?
Does anyone else here think that this will be ignored by MSM and lose momentum, unless Soldiers are killed and dragged through streets? Which I can't see the Cartels risking that kind of PR.
So you think doing nothing and letting the cartels bend us over and well you get the picture is the way to go? Please tell me how appeasing a bunch of drug runners is in our best interest? I would like to be enlightened on how that would work to our advantage.
I think that came off wrong if that is directed at me. Not what I meant by any means. I am talking about the 2nd and 3rd order affects that concern me. Like anything, this could go well, it could also be very bad.
And yes, body's and heads in the streets is exactly what I was thinking. I do not think for a second the Cartel(s) care about it being US NG or Mexican police and civilians.
The questions I ponder are about Federal response to the matter once something does happen. A series of bad incidents cannot stay from the media forever, especially when they are domestic. With that, what response is in the political interest in DC for such a mission? What would they have to do to make it something that is worth being a part of to them? Obviously the DC politics cannot stand bad PR about the US because it reflects on them. It is a bad situation at the border. Yes, something has to be done. I see it as Perry is calling Obama's bluff with his response. I see Perry's move as a huge calculated decision.
Again, Whats next? It could be a long road to go down. Hopefully this time we do it right. (secure border) How would you do it? I do not know the perfect answer either.
I do not think that the Cartels will win anything in the long run. I just do not think it would be a short mission to cease Cartel drug activity and human trafficking. We may have a great well trained NG ready to respond but lets not underestimate the possible response we may be getting. Many of the weapons we see in AFG are in the Cartels hands now. IED's, RPG's, API .50, is all to be expected.
Why your intention was not appeasement that is what you were saying without realizing it ie don't piss off the cartels. They may get mad and attack us.
I appreciate you calling me out on that. I will work on my communication skills further. Sometimes, I have too many trains of thought going on at once and its only the un-sorted pieces that come out. :)
.....Updated the first post.
They estimate $12 million per month.
SnT
That's just a little south of a million a troop a month. They must be figuring in economic loss due to the fact that these guys and gals have REAL jobs that they have to leave for a period of time to fend off "immigrants who do the jobs that Americans won't do". :rolleyes:
Pat
With 12 hour per day shifts, that would equate to 1 soldier per 2.5 miles.
I would prefer to see them mobilize more and seal the border.
TR
Thank God for FLIR :D
I'm all for the Governors decision to act. Now every other border state needs to fall in behind Perry. It won't happen, but it's nice to "dream". I also agree with the sentiment that 1,000 Guardsman is not enough, but I'm not up to speed on unit strength in that neck of the woods.
As far as the $12m per month, I cannot even begin to comprehend the costs of housing, feeding, issuing medical care, etc. to tens of thousands of illegals per month with that number growing by the minute. Even if the presence just sends the message "Not here, not anymore" then it's a win in my book.
NurseTim
07-22-2014, 06:59
Thank God for FLIR :D
I'm all for the Governors decision to act. Now every other border state needs to fall in behind Perry. It won't happen, but it's nice to "dream". I also agree with the sentiment that 1,000 Guardsman is not enough, but I'm not up to speed on unit strength in that neck of the woods.
As far as the $12m per month, I cannot even begin to comprehend the costs of housing, feeding, issuing medical care, etc. to tens of thousands of illegals per month with that number growing by the minute. Even if the presence just sends the message "Not here, not anymore" then it's a win in my book.
Susana Martinez is gov. Of nm, Jan Brewer is gov. Of AZ, I could see them doing the same thing. Nm would be a little sticky as it's practical name should be little mexico. If they did seal the boarders in those states, it would leave only kommifornia as the only crossing option and overwhelm their system. Yeah, that would be a shame.
Dean Jarvis
07-22-2014, 07:26
Thank God for FLIR :D
I'm all for the Governors decision to act. Now every other border state needs to fall in behind Perry. It won't happen, but it's nice to "dream". I also agree with the sentiment that 1,000 Guardsman is not enough, but I'm not up to speed on unit strength in that neck of the woods.
It's abundantly clear the Federal Government (POTUS) isn't going to secure the border. I think Texas and the other border states should prorate their cost to secure the border and bill each state. In addition, other states should step up and contribute their fair share of National Guard troops. If the States don't act then we are just resigning our selves to becoming a Banana Republic if we aren't already.
1stindoor
07-22-2014, 07:27
My belief is that this "deployment" will be short lived as once any kind of "incident" happens the federal government will step in and claim the Governor is overstepping his authority and declare his actions unconstitutional.
Dean Jarvis
07-22-2014, 07:37
My belief is that this "deployment" will be short lived as once any kind of "incident" happens the federal government will step in and claim the Governor is overstepping his authority and declare his actions unconstitutional.
Roger that. And like they say, don't mess with Texas. This will no doubt get a lot uglier. I don't see Perry backing down on this one.:lifter
Well - Rick Perry is a noted pistol packing coyote hunter... :rolleyes: ...however, in this instance, I think he's politically hunting the Coyote In Chief.
Richard
Golf1echo
07-22-2014, 08:17
I like the idea of the States using their National Guard to protect the integrity of the Nation's border...
They have a broad set of skills to draw from and if integrated they could be very effective. SOP's similar to Civil Disturbance where jurisdiction is handed off, blocking strategies to control entry points, processing facilities- transport logistics, medical processing and care,etc...
Good for Governor Perry for doing something. Looks like checks and balances working, the State's power increasing as a result of an ineffective and unethical Federal Government.
"Coyote" is Right!
Tango three
07-22-2014, 08:47
I like the idea of the States using their National Guard to protect the integrity of the Nation's border...
They have a broad set of skills to draw from and if integrated they could be very effective. SOP's similar to Civil Disturbance where jurisdiction is handed off, blocking strategies to control entry points, processing facilities- transport logistics, medical processing and care,etc...
Good for Governor Perry for doing something. Looks like checks and balances working, the State's power increasing as a result of an ineffective and unethical Federal Government.
"Coyote" is Right! Well I don't like the idea of national issues being addressed at the state level. And I don't like Govenors taking "action" (particularly militarizing the situation) because in the Gov's opinion the President isn't doing enough or what the Gov wants.
As The Reaper pointed out, one Guardsman per 2.5 linear mile will have limited effect at enormous cost. And Gov Perry can send all the bills he wants to WA but he shouldn't hold his breath.
And, the people coming in (whether youy classify them as illegal aliens or refugees) certainly aren't sneaking in, they are turning themselves in.
As to the nature of the problem, there seems to be a disconnect in this discussion. Evidence indicateds this is a refugee problem yet members are discussing this as if the drug cartels in Centeral America are using this as a beachhead to invade America. Nothing could be farther from the case. They cetainly dont need a beachhead when they seem to be getting all the drugs they want into this country and why would they want to directly confront the US? That would not help in thier efferts to get more drugs in and more money out of the US.
Well - Rick Perry is a noted pistol packing coyote hunter... :rolleyes: ...however, in this instance, I think he's politically hunting the Coyote In Chief.
Richard
Ahhhh Such a Wiley Coyote !!!!!!:munchin
Dean Jarvis
07-22-2014, 09:54
As to the nature of the problem, there seems to be a disconnect in this discussion. Evidence indicateds this is a refugee problem yet members are discussing this as if the drug cartels in Centeral America are using this as a beachhead to invade America. Nothing could be farther from the case. They cetainly dont need a beachhead when they seem to be getting all the drugs they want into this country and why would they want to directly confront the US? That would not help in thier efferts to get more drugs in and more money out of the US.
How many refugee's you know use .50 cal suppressive fire to cross the border.:munchin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FMkwpFl_8d0
Streck-Fu
07-22-2014, 10:14
Referring and deterring? Does he mean to draw fire? LINK (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/gov-rick-perry-deploying-up-to-1000-national-guard-troops-to-border/)
The troops could detain people if asked, Texas Adjutant General John Nichols said at the press conference with Perry, but they are planning to play a "referring and deterring" role by deterring cartels with their visible presence and referring any immigrants suspected of being in the country illegally to DPS.
Snaquebite
07-22-2014, 10:17
USBP is Federal, TNG is state controlled in this use. Anyone see any problems with this relationship? TNG working with local LEO should be no problem but can the USG tell the USBP not to work/cooperate with the TNG?
Well I don't like the idea of national issues being addressed at the state level.
It's only a national border on maps, it's our REAL border. If the cops decide not to keep people from running through, or camping in, your backyard, are you just going to throw up your hands and say, "Oh, well. It's not my issue?"
Pat
Javadrinker
07-22-2014, 11:27
Evidence indicateds this is a refugee problem yet members are discussing this as if the drug cartels in Centeral America are using this as a beachhead to invade America. Nothing could be farther from the case. They cetainly dont need a beachhead when they seem to be getting all the drugs they want into this country and why would they want to directly confront the US? That would not help in thier efferts to get more drugs in and more money out of the US.
You should move down here and really learn something more than what the MSM is feeding you.
This is a non-violent invasion, if you notice the MSM was not here 6 months ago when the numbers coming across were the same only it was not women and children, but grown men.
As far as confronting the US, it is done daily, just not so reported.
Is there any word on who they're talking about? Are these combat troops? MPs? Cooks?
We have some teams down there. That would be an interesting JCET eh?
Golf1echo
07-22-2014, 13:37
Well I don't like the idea of national issues being addressed at the state level. And I don't like Govenors taking "action" (particularly militarizing the situation) because in the Gov's opinion the President isn't doing enough or what the Gov wants.
As The Reaper pointed out, one Guardsman per 2.5 linear mile will have limited effect at enormous cost. And Gov Perry can send all the bills he wants to WA but he shouldn't hold his breath.
And, the people coming in (whether youy classify them as illegal aliens or refugees) certainly aren't sneaking in, they are turning themselves in.
As to the nature of the problem, there seems to be a disconnect in this discussion. Evidence indicateds this is a refugee problem yet members are discussing this as if the drug cartels in Centeral America are using this as a beachhead to invade America. Nothing could be farther from the case. They cetainly dont need a beachhead when they seem to be getting all the drugs they want into this country and why would they want to directly confront the US? That would not help in thier efferts to get more drugs in and more money out of the US.
What we want is our border secure, the Federal Government has not done that. The States in this case are desperate to get relief from this illegal immigration and it is not just the adjoining States, once across and not detained or released after processing these illegals are now effectively in the country...deep in the country. Ever seen those buses on our freeways?
https://www.google.com/search?q=Autobuses+Adame&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=N_7MU4LKINiqyATbyICQCA&ved=0CAsQ_AUoBA&biw=1241&bih=583#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=ypW8Q4QbbCCf7M%253A%3B7p3V5Sgg26zJ9M%3Bhttp% 253A%252F%252Fwww.indyweek.com%252Fimager%252Fpass engers-on-autobuses-adame-endure-a-long-ride-home-up-to-62-hours-on-th%252Fb%252Foriginal%252F1322899%252Fc90a%252F7.3 0-news-mexbusphoto2.gif%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.indyweek .com%252Findyweek%252Fwith-few-options-in-nc-immigrants-return-to-mexico-by-bus%252FContent%253Foid%253D1209887%3B300%3B200
The whole point in having an immigration policy and laws is to control who and how many foreigners enter your country and under what circumstance. if folks don't like those laws they need to change them but ignoring the laws because it is not convenient to your political agenda is a disconnect from a society that functions based on the rule of law. Why hasn't the current administration been out front in trying to change the laws? Why have they not put the resources forward to deal with this situation? Why didn't they start to work on these issues years ago?....they have their reasons.
Tango Three your OK for now, Governor Perry is just looking for enforcement of existing laws, his State has paid a heavy cost in supporting social services required to support such a large foreign population and the collateral effects...back to why we control immigration. There is an echelon in place for the deployment of our United States National Guard and perhaps we will all learn more about that through this event...
Snaquebite, I wonder about that too but there already are relationships in place where aliens that are caught inland can be turned over to ICE for processing, detention and then deported if required by current policy. The Border Patrol's problem is a lack of man power, resources and the political challenge to doing their job. The Guard has stepped in to do some good work for the country many times.
Krauthammer: "If Fences Don't Work, Why Is There One Around The White House?"
Krauthammer: "If Fences Don't Work, Why Is There One Around The White House?"
That's Good!
Krauthammer: "If Fences Don't Work, Why Is There One Around The White House?"
I'll take a shot at this one: "To give future Secretaries of State something to toss their fake medals over?" :confused:
Pat
I'll take a shot at this one: "To give future Secretaries of State something to toss their fake medals over?" :confused:
Pat
Ba Dum Bum! :lifter
My belief is that this "deployment" will be short lived as once any kind of "incident" happens the federal government will step in and claim the Governor is overstepping his authority and declare his actions unconstitutional.
Sadly, am in agreement and so are most of the folks around here...This while thing is just so unbelievable! My goodness, where in the world has Our leadership gone....:(
Holly
Utah Bob
07-22-2014, 16:23
My belief is that this "deployment" will be short lived as once any kind of "incident" happens the federal government will step in and claim the Governor is overstepping his authority and declare his actions unconstitutional.
Unconstitutional! Har. Pot. Kettle. Black.
Ba Dum Bum! :lifter
Nailed that one on the head Sir!!
Can we please just elect an SF Man to run this Country????
Problem(s) Solved IMVHO!
Holly
The medals are real its facts i the AAR that were fake.
Not that. He didn't throw his over the fence. He later said, when running for President, that he threw someone else's over. ;)
Pat
To give you an idea of what is actually happening in South Texas, yesterday there was a 4 hour standoff in La Joya where 2 Edinbug police officers were shot by a Texas Syndicate gang member armed with a fully automatic rifle. Today a state game warden was assaulted by a Coyote bringing dope or people into the country.
The shooter yesterday was an illegal alien and was wanted for capital murder of an illegal alien in Edinbug, TX. I Go to www.themonitor.com and read about the crap that goes on daily. There is a full fledged war raging just across the border. Google Reynosa, Matamoras, Miguel Aleman, San Luis Potosi (all in Mexico) to see what the cartels have done.
Think back to the scene in Jaws where the sheriff closed the beach and the politicians had a fit because of the image it gave. The same thing is happening here.
Now I will get off my soap box.
Tango Three said: "And, the people coming in (whether youy classify them as illegal aliens or refugees) certainly aren't sneaking in, they are turning themselves in."
That's not quite true. Many are indeed turning themselves in; however there are a whole hell of a lot more that never do. There was an excellent interview with a retired BP agent by the name of Zach Taylor which is well worth the watch. I haven't been here in a while, so I don't know if this was already posted - couldn't find his name using "search". (Too much other crap going on right now.) If not, here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqHEYR8WVO0
http://www.breitbart.com/system/wire/ap_2d674ae2aa7b490caed3ab99093f3948
"McALLEN, Texas (AP) — Most of the 1,000 National Guard troops headed to the Texas-Mexico border will take up observational positions and detain people only if they interfere with their mission, a top general over the deployment said Tuesday.
Texas Adjutant General John Nichols said the troops will help deter illicit traffic while U.S. Border Patrol agents deal with a record spike of unaccompanied minors entering the country. The Texas National Guard troops are headed to border on the orders of Republican Gov. Rick Perry, who has been a chief critic of the White House response to the crisis and is considering another run for president in 2016.
Nichols said troops will be armed for their safety, but when asked if their weapons would be loaded would say only that ammunition would be in magazines.
"That's about as far as I want to go because if the cartel folks understand what we can and can't do then they may take advantage of that," Nichols told The Associated Press.
Nichols said troops will deploy to the Rio Grande Valley in the next few weeks and that no end date for the operation has been set."
"...The new deployment comes two years after the federal Government Accountability Office questioned the impact of the last two times that National Guard troops were sent to the border. A 2012 report found the State Department and Defense Department "expressing concerns about the perception of a militarized border with Mexico."
President George W. Bush added 6,000 National Guard troops to the southwest border in 2006 and Obama ordered a new surge of 1,200 in 2010. Those missions ended with Defense Department officials worrying that a strategy on the border was more ad hoc than comprehensive, according to the federal report."
The ol' single bullet in the shirt pocket doctrine - Rick Perry must've been consulting with Sheriff Andy Taylor.
Richard
Another reason not to be part of the first group that are being asked to volunteer for this mission...
Pericles
07-25-2014, 14:05
As I understand it, there is no Arming Order (ROE & Use of Force), so they will be doing admin support for other agencies.
Loadsmasher
07-29-2014, 13:34
As I understand it, there is no Arming Order (ROE & Use of Force), so they will be doing admin support for other agencies.
You dont send infantry companies to do paperwork.
Oldrotorhead
07-29-2014, 13:58
Tango Three said: "And, the people coming in (whether youy classify them as illegal aliens or refugees) certainly aren't sneaking in, they are turning themselves in."
That's not quite true. Many are indeed turning themselves in; however there are a whole hell of a lot more that never do. There was an excellent interview with a retired BP agent by the name of Zach Taylor which is well worth the watch. I haven't been here in a while, so I don't know if this was already posted - couldn't find his name using "search". (Too much other crap going on right now.) If not, here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqHEYR8WVO0
Using Tango Three logic I can go to his house, enter through the unlocked back door and then tell him when he finds me. Hey I'm here feed me, give me a bed and I need to se a Dr. so get out your check book.:D