View Full Version : Anti government sentiment fuels fears of police killings
mojaveman
07-14-2014, 10:23
"There's a deep concern that there has been a measureable increase of violence against police officers, especially with firearms," said Rich Roberts, spokesman for the International Union of Police Associates. The anti-police movement "seems to feed off each other online," he said.
http://news.yahoo.com/online-rants-rightwing-extremeism-fuel-fears-for-us-cops-225012920.html
ddoering
07-14-2014, 12:53
Now, I wonder who could be responsible for the anti-government sentiment? Perhaps George Bush?
Team Sergeant
07-14-2014, 13:17
There are some seriously sick assholes out there online in "social" media.
Praising the random killing of police officers is very sick and if you read the article you'll see "Cop Block’s 780,000-plus Facebook fans", that's a very large number of sick assholes.
And speaking of sick assholes you'll also see "Mark Potok", an expert on extremism" more like a liberal left-wing self proclaimed expert on extremism and left-wing propaganda writer for the Southern Poverty Law Center. And I'm sure the "1100 anti-government" groups are not all anti-police groups. Anti-government does not equal anti-police, only morons would think that way or left-wing propaganda writers.........
And then there's facebook, promoting hate and even allowing large hate groups to thrive on its pages. I'm wondering if facebook ads targeting the government hate groups includes firearms, firearms training etc to those individuals. It's all about the greenbacks isn't it facebook.
There are some seriously sick assholes out there online in "social" media.
Praising the random killing of police officers is very sick and if you read the article you'll see "Cop Block’s 780,000-plus Facebook fans", that's a very large number of sick assholes.
And speaking of sick assholes you'll also see "Mark Potok", an expert on extremism" more like a liberal left-wing self proclaimed expert on extremism and left-wing propaganda writer for the Southern Poverty Law Center. And I'm sure the "1100 anti-government" groups are not all anti-police groups. Anti-government does not equal anti-police, only morons would think that way or left-wing propaganda writers.........
And then there's facebook, promoting hate and even allowing large hate groups to thrive on its pages. I'm wondering if facebook ads targeting the government hate groups includes firearms, firearms training etc to those individuals. It's all about the greenbacks isn't it facebook.
Your words are straight, TS. It's all about the money, and let truth and integrity be damned. Having "political capital", power over the uninformed (or appearing to) trumps all. Oughta have their own Hall of Shame. Expose the little pricked asshats for what they are.
DIYPatriot
07-14-2014, 13:43
This one hits close to home. We had a couple officers killed in the line of duty just across the bridge from downtown Memphis, in West Memphis, AR. The killers were located and gunned down in a walmart parking lot. They were part of an anti-govt group known as sovereign citizens. The West Memphis police chief is featured in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P61RJ3ILrE). His son, Brandon Paudert, was one of the officers that died in the line of duty.
ddoering
07-14-2014, 14:13
How many of those 700,000 are actually leftists posting radical crap to prove how radical the right really is?
How many of those 700,000 are actually leftists posting radical crap to prove how radical the right really is?
My feeling exactly. Agree on all points TS.
NurseTim
07-14-2014, 15:10
Has anybody read "Unintended Consequences"? Look it up. The last third of the book is when it gets interesting and germaine. The first two thirds of the book is the lead up, long book.
blacksmoke
07-14-2014, 16:01
You can only get a FB page taken down if you're a hot young chick hunting in Africa. Al-qaeda apparently doesn't kill "threatened" species.
There are some seriously sick assholes out there online in "social" media.
Praising the random killing of police officers is very sick and if you read the article you'll see "Cop Block’s 780,000-plus Facebook fans", that's a very large number of sick assholes.
And speaking of sick assholes you'll also see "Mark Potok", an expert on extremism" more like a liberal left-wing self proclaimed expert on extremism and left-wing propaganda writer for the Southern Poverty Law Center. And I'm sure the "1100 anti-government" groups are not all anti-police groups. Anti-government does not equal anti-police, only morons would think that way or left-wing propaganda writers.........
And then there's facebook, promoting hate and even allowing large hate groups to thrive on its pages. I'm wondering if facebook ads targeting the government hate groups includes firearms, firearms training etc to those individuals. It's all about the greenbacks isn't it facebook.
As usual TS Sir, you are spot on!
Facebook and other "social" media sites seem to have this allure....that is, if you were not raised by a father who worked on the internet, before it was "the" internet. My Dad instilled in me back in the early '90's a deep understanding of just what exactly the world wide web is, and who is on it.
Won't ever find me on any of those sites. I prefer to take the sage advice given to me, "and keep better company!" Which is why PS.com is the only site visited regularly by my camp, period.
Any killing of Our Brave Law Enforcement officers is not only sick, it is cowardly, and wrong!
Holly:munchin
Golf1echo
07-14-2014, 20:02
And then there's facebook, promoting hate and even allowing large hate groups to thrive on its pages. I'm wondering if facebook ads targeting the government hate groups includes firearms, firearms training etc to those individuals. It's all about the greenbacks isn't it facebook.
Perhaps that is more of a "Cultural Revolution"?
Perhaps that is more of a "Cultural Revolution"?
May I ask wth that means? Really?
Holly
Golf1echo
07-14-2014, 20:47
May I ask wth that means? Really?
Holly
From 1966 - 1976 in various forms, Mao Zedong's China experienced " The Cultural Revolution". I reference it in regards to the Facebook comment because as part of that revolution people were enabled to express themselves and their beliefs more freely, that proved to be the undoing of many...if their expressed ideas turned out to be different from the Communist Party it turned out.
I'm glad you asked because I completely concur with TS opinion of the depraved parts of society addressed in the first part of the post. Law Enforcement is the thin line serving us against that depravity.
Political persuasions toward smaller, sustaining, and responsible government are quite different than the other...
DIYPatriot
07-15-2014, 08:52
We're overdue for a world-wide flood.
A day after a rookie police officer was gunned down in an ambush, mourners came to pay their respects at a makeshift memorial with candles, balloons, empty liquor bottles and messages of love from friends scrawled on T-shirts taped to a brick wall.
Instead of honoring the officer, the memorial was for his killer. "Rest easy," "Thug in peace" and "See u on the other side" friends wrote about Lawrence Campbell, who police say ambushed Officer Melvin Santiago early Sunday as he responded to an armed robbery call at a 24/7 pharmacy. Officers returned fire, killing Campbell.
Visitors to the memorial would not give their names to The Associated Press. But Barbara Jones, Campbell's neighbor, told The Jersey Journal that the Campbell she knew was nothing like the man city officials say was lying in wait for officers to arrive before opening fire.
Full Article (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/15/police-officer-who-dreamed-following-cop-uncle-footsteps-slain-by-killer-who/)
From 1966 - 1976 in various forms, Mao Zedong's China experienced " The Cultural Revolution". I reference it in regards to the Facebook comment because as part of that revolution people were enabled to express themselves and their beliefs more freely, that proved to be the undoing of many...if their expressed ideas turned out to be different from the Communist Party it turned out.
I'm glad you asked because I completely concur with TS opinion of the depraved parts of society addressed in the first part of the post. Law Enforcement is the thin line serving us against that depravity.
Political persuasions toward smaller, sustaining, and responsible government are quite different than the other...
Thank you so much for the clarification, as it appears that history is once again, repeating itself.. and not in a good way it seems. Agree 100%, those brave Law Enforcement Officers are that thin line!
Maybe the "flood" is coming.....
Holly
Streck-Fu
07-15-2014, 10:40
"There's a deep concern that there has been a measureable increase of violence against police officers, especially with firearms," said Rich Roberts, spokesman for the International Union of Police Associates. The anti-police movement "seems to feed off each other online," he said.
Well....shit like this does not help the public perception....LINK (http://www.wbay.com/story/26021977/2014/07/15/green-bay-police-clear-officer-wicklund-in-use-of-force-investigation)
Green Bay -
Green Bay Police have cleared Officer Derek Wicklund in an internal investigation into his use of force in an arrest in April.
Youtube video of incident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIhueN-vL-M
Full report (go to page 5 for description of action): LINK (http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wbay/GBPD.pdf)
Vertically stuns.....decentralizes.....directs his right hand ....
Use of force rarely looks good on film. The camera lenses gives a much wider perspective of the incident than the officer sees. In this video the suspect is obviously non-compliant and the report articulates probable cause that he was obstructing another officer from taking someone into custody.
The suspect and officer appeared fairly evenly matched in size and strength. Even when the suspect was on his back he was not effectively in custody. The officer did a great job of delivering strikes to the suspect causing him to turn away so he could be maneuvered onto his stomach. Once he was secured the strikes stopped and the applicating of force was over. That is as clean as it gets with a combative person at bar close. If my wife called the police for an intruder breaking into my house I would want that officer to respond.
Thanks for this thread. I showed the West Memphis video at roll call yesterday.
Use of force rarely looks good on film. The camera lenses gives a much wider perspective of the incident than the officer sees. In this video the suspect is obviously non-compliant and the report articulates probable cause that he was obstructing another officer from taking someone into custody.
The suspect and officer appeared fairly evenly matched in size and strength. Even when the suspect was on his back he was not effectively in custody. The officer did a great job of delivering strikes to the suspect causing him to turn away so he could be maneuvered onto his stomach. Once he was secured the strikes stopped and the applicating of force was over. That is as clean as it gets with a combative person at bar close. If my wife called the police for an intruder breaking into my house I would want that officer to respond.
Thanks for this thread. I showed the West Memphis video at roll call yesterday.
How about this one, then: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/07/us/california-police-videotape-beating/
Going to fists seems to make it personal.
Pat
In this example it is harder to determine appropriateness. The video reports the trooper received a call about this women on the freeway. The reason she was out there is unknown and the possibilities are many and the officer was alone at the time. The supervisor is right in that once the facts are known a determination can be made. When police agencies decline to give opinions about appropriateness of a police action, it's more about letting the government systems in place do their jobs than any ill will or wall of silence. That is my opinion and experience.
On a side note, I feel it will be the norm for officers to wear body-cams within the next five years or so. The perspective of the officer will be clearer as well as the intent of suspects.
The Reaper
07-15-2014, 17:13
In this example it is harder to determine appropriateness. The video reports the trooper received a call about this women on the freeway. The reason she was out there is unknown and the possibilities are many and the officer was alone at the time. The supervisor is right in that once the facts are known a determination can be made. When police agencies decline to give opinions about appropriateness of a police action, it's more about letting the government systems in place do their jobs than any ill will or wall of silence. That is my opinion and experience.
On a side note, I feel it will be the norm for officers to wear body-cams within the next five years or so. The perspective of the officer will be clearer as well as the intent of suspects.
Have you ever heard of an LEO being convicted in criminal court of assault, ADW, or homicide relating to an on-duty incident?
Are officers ever held personally financially responsible for their actions, or are the taxpayers always on the hook for the incidents?
TR
I am not an attorney so this my opinion on the question. Criminal prosecution of police officers related to use of force cases are rare. If an officer is prosecuted in criminal court it usually stems from egregious conduct like extortion or other crimes where the criminal intent can be proved by prosecutors. The proverbial bad apple if you will.
The majority of excessive use of force cases take the civil path of the 4th Amendment principles of unreasonable search and seizure. The suspect or suspect's family allege that the force applied was an unreasonable seizure, violating their constitutional rights. When these suits are filled, they most always include the agency and the individual officers involved. In essence they are bringing civil action against the government and then the officer personally.
Who foots the bill is dependent on the circumstances. Most agencies have legal council as part of operating expenses. They pay a fixed amount that gives them council in the event a suit is filed. Where it gets dicey is they can choose to officially support the officers actions or not. If they support them, their defense is covered under the agencies plan. If the officer is not supported, the cost of their defense is their responsibility. Most police unions collect dues and use that money to contract with a law firm for legal council for their members.
I am not an attorney so this my opinion on the question. Criminal prosecution of police officers related to use of force cases are rare......
How about lying...
Durham cops lied about 911 calls
http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/durham-cops-lied-about-911-calls/Content?oid=4201004
"...When Beck took the witness stand, he admitted to fabricating the 911 story in order to enter the house. Beck testified that his true intent was to serve a warrant, though he never produced the warrant in the courtroom.
Beck further testified that the 911 ruse was permitted under a department policy in cases where domestic violence is alleged, recalled Morgan Canady, the defendant's lawyer...."
When cops lie it's a deal breaker with the agency and the courts. Most cases of false reporting are discovered by the agency. Once the allegation is substantiated the officer can no longer be viewed as a credible witness in court. Agencies are required to notify prosecutors when this happens. The officer is then either let go or resigns.
Whether the officer is charged with a crime based on the lie is up to the prosecuting authority. The ex-officer is open to civil liability as well.
Justin Volpe. NYPD got 30 years, and cost NYC 8.75 million payout to Abner Louima.
I believe the federal government is behind some of the anti local police sentiment. What better way to cause a rift between the two forces capable of stopping government overreach, than to coerce people into believing local police are the problem by making bizarre statements on websites they know anti big government advocates communicate.
Good point. Most LE are good ell meaning officers. The media highlights the shit heads and makes all officers look bad. Are there some scum bags with a badge? Yea there are just like any group had its screw ups. Part of the strategy of UW and staring an insurgency is driving wedges between groups of people along racial, ethnic, religions or finical lines etc. Set them against each other then manipulate them to do what you want.
As long as there's a blue wall(code) of silence, LEOs will be be viewed in a suspect way by the public in general.
The Reaper
07-16-2014, 12:54
As long as there's a blue wall(code) of silence, LEOs will be be viewed in a suspect way by the public in general.
I guess we are finally in agreement here.
LEOs wrongfully assault and kill a lot more Americans every year than we would believe.
The sad fact is that LEOs have virtual immunity from their misconduct. An officer who is actually fired, which seems to be about the most serious repercussion actually imposed, would have almost certainly been incarcerated had he taken those same actions as a regular citizen.
Until LEOs see that testifying against a bad officer is in their own best interest, I suspect that we will continue to see a legacy of LEOs not being held civilly or criminally accountable for their actions, and the taxpayer footing the bill for their legal representation and massive civil settlements.
If a cop does something illegal, he should be held to the same standards as the public. If that means incarceration, so be it.
The secondary effect is the destruction of trust between the public and the LEO community. Sometimes, the sheepdogs are actually wolves pretending to be dogs.
I was involved in the investigation of an incident where a local deputy shot two Robin Sage students, killing one. The blue wall came up, the video recording mysteriously stopped prior to the shooting, the physical evidence disproving the deputy's claims were ignored, the witnesses were intimidated, officers and citizens who knew him to be a bad egg were silenced, and he got away with murder. Case closed. The county eventually paid a large settlement to hush this up and make it go away. Thank you John Q. Taxpayer. Does anyone think they, as members of the public would have gotten away with this?
This lack of accountability has, along with the militarization of Law Enforcement, led to an erosion of trust and confidence between the public and local, state, and Federal LE.
TR
The Reaper
07-16-2014, 13:28
Nothing personal, but since you refer to the public as civilians, do most officers see themselves as some sort of military personnel?
TR
First of all your statement is offensive to me. You are stating I would cover up for another officer that commits a crime etc. That is bullshit. There NOTHING worse than a dirty cop. Now look at it through a cops eyes.
.
Sorry, have to agree with WCH on this one. Nothing offensive about what he wrote. He's right. That code of silence does hurt the public's trust in LE. He didn't say you were, personally, responsible.
Civilian:
n.
1. A person following the pursuits of civil life, especially one who is not an active member of the military, the police, or a belligerent group.
How about this one, then: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/07/us/california-police-videotape-beating/
Going to fists seems to make it personal.
Pat
There's no way to tell exactly what preceded that event. 51 year old great grandma. That's a pretty good indication to me as to what kind of individual the CHP officer was dealing with. I am not defending his actions but I can tell you police officers beat the hell out of deserving people all the time. This guy could be a loose cannon Stallone in Cobra type for all we know.
On the flip side, my brother in law got his ass kicked by a wealthy dentist when he responded to a domestic disturbance. The dentist's children called the police because he was chasing them with a baseball bat :mad: Brother in law is the first to show up, gets ambushed and beat down so bad he had an overnight stay in the the hospital due to broken bones. Charges against the dentist were dropped.
There are a lot of corrupt police out there, and I agree with TR. Police officers who overstep the line of the law need to be punished like the rest of us would, but it doesn't change the fact that most LEO's are good people, who believe in our Constitutional rights, who would defend those rights against an oppressive federal government if it came it that, who want to go home to their families at the end of the day. If they have to lay the hammer down on worthless trash on occasion, I have no problem with that.
Part of the strategy of UW and staring an insurgency is driving wedges between groups of people along racial, ethnic, religions or finical lines etc. Set them against each other then manipulate them to do what you want.
Divide and Conquer. If LEO's continue to be treated negatively, they're going to have more reason to side with their could be beltway advocates if orders to do something unconstitutional arise.