View Full Version : Towson defeated the University of Oklahoma...
This is one hell of a debate....it must be a new form of debate, maybe a cross between Ebonics and Rap-HipHop.
According to Pundit Press:
College Wins US Debate Championship By Repeating the N-Word Over and Over, Speaking Incomprehensibly
by Aurelius • May 5, 2014
On March 24, Towson University won the 2014 Cross Examination Debate Association’s national championship. Towson defeated the University of Oklahoma. What was Towson’s strategy? Inexplicably using the N-word over and over again in an incomprehensible tirade.
Here is an actual excerpt (with profanity redacted). See if you are able to tell what Towson is arguing in favor or against:
They say the n*****s always already qu***, that’s exactly the point! It means the impact is that the that the is the impact term, uh, to the afraid, uh, the, that it is a case term to the affirmative because, we, uh, we’re saying that qu*** bodies are not able to survive the necessarily means of the body. Uh, uh, the n***** is not able to survive.
Have no idea what the person was arguing? Here, maybe another real excerpt will help you:
Uh, man’s sole “jabringing” object disfigure religion trauma and nubs, uh, the, inside the trauma of representation that turns into the black child devouring and identifying with the stories and into the white culture brought up, uh, de de de de de, dink, and add subjectively like a white man, the black man!
http://thepunditpress.com/2014/05/05/college-wins-us-debate-championship-by-repeating-the-n-word-over-and-over-speaking-incomprehensibly/
Actual Footage of the Debate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FCx2uGBhvEc)
2014 CEDA Final Round (http://youtu.be/HFbQftMe6qY)
Streck-Fu
05-19-2014, 08:35
Debate.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
LINK (http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/traditional-college-debate-white-privilege/360746/)
It used to be that if you went to a college-level debate tournament, the students you’d see would be bookish future lawyers from elite universities, most of them white. In matching navy blazers, they’d recite academic arguments for and against various government policies. It was tame, predictable, and, frankly, boring.
No more.
These days, an increasingly diverse group of participants has transformed debate competitions, mounting challenges to traditional form and content by incorporating personal experience, performance, and radical politics. These “alternative-style” debaters have achieved success, too, taking top honors at national collegiate tournaments over the past few years.
But this transformation has also sparked a difficult, often painful controversy for a community that prides itself on handling volatile topics.
On March 24, 2014 at the Cross Examination Debate Association (CEDA) Championships at Indiana University, two Towson University students, Ameena Ruffin and Korey Johnson, became the first African-American women to win a national college debate tournament, for which the resolution asked whether the U.S. president’s war powers should be restricted. Rather than address the resolution straight on, Ruffin and Johnson, along with other teams of African-Americans, attacked its premise. The more pressing issue, they argued, is how the U.S. government is at war with poor black communities.
In the final round, Ruffin and Johnson squared off against Rashid Campbell and George Lee from the University of Oklahoma, two highly accomplished African-American debaters with distinctive dreadlocks and dashikis. Over four hours, the two teams engaged in a heated discussion of concepts like “nigga authenticity” and performed hip-hop and spoken-word poetry in the traditional timed format. At one point during Lee’s rebuttal, the clock ran out but he refused to yield the floor. “Fuck the time!” he yelled. His partner Campbell, who won the top speaker award at the National Debate Tournament two weeks later, had been unfairly targeted by the police at the debate venue just days before, and cited this experience as evidence for his case against the government’s treatment of poor African-Americans.
Message from President of the Cross-Examination Debate Association
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pij5Sg4_DY&feature=youtu.be
Message from Korey Johnson - Towson team's first negative response speaker
http://outofnowhereblog.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/never-meant-to-survive-the-debate-sapphire-reclaims-her-performance/
Richard
Streck-Fu
05-19-2014, 09:10
Anytime there is an epistemological shift away from hegemonic knowledge production and subjugated knowledges refuse to be hidden, there is always backlash.
However, the responses are worse than backlash. They reflect the intentional and unintentional targeting and killing of two Black women in an educational activity (but to be honest I don’t expect much of this academic machine). Audre Lorde said it perfectly, “the machine will try to grind you into dust anyway, whether or not we speak.”
:rolleyes:
I couldn't understand much of what she and her partner were saying, but who am I to judge. Seems like the judges wanted to award this to the women given the historical meaning of it. I like their opponents use of 2pac's lyrics, and their tempo made understanding what they were saying much easier.
The presidents response was more annoying than listening to the women who won the debate.
PedOncoDoc
05-19-2014, 10:05
That was really odd to watch.
I equate this to challenging someone to a foot race, then dropping trow and taking a giant crap at the start and declaring one's self the winner, because global warming.
I can't wait for white collegiate debate groups start using the same language and tactics - I'm sure it will be just as enthusiastically received. It seems more like angsty poetry than collegiate debate to me, but that must be because I'm racist. :rolleyes:
That was really odd to watch.
I equate this to challenging someone to a foot race, then dropping trow and taking a giant crap at the start and declaring one's self the winner, because global warming.
I can't wait for white collegiate debate groups start using the same language and tactics - I'm sure it will be just as enthusiastically received. It seems more like angsty poetry than collegiate debate to me, but that must be because I'm racist. :rolleyes:
It was odd, at first I thought it was something in the way of Sweet Brown (Ain't nobody got time for dat) and it belonged in the comedy zone, but the gibberish turned turned out to be real.
20 more years and well all be back to loin cloths, stick for weapons and grunts for comms.
All Y'all are just behind the times.
It is the new norm for debates - watch the evening news - much the sames.
PedOncoDoc
05-19-2014, 13:26
At future presidential debates, we'll need the guy who was signing/gesticulating at Nelson Mandela's funeral to help provide meaning/emphasis to the candidates' arguments. :rolleyes:
There is an irony in all this.......
On one hand academia will accept and legitimize this culture centric gibberish as a language, of which segregates said culture into their own niche.....on the other hand academia and TPTB are now saying we have a problem with diversity because of natural segregation.
Performance Art is not the same as the art of debate/rhetoric in my opinion.
Aristotle organized rhetoric into 3 parts:
Ethos...character of the speaker and its effect on audience
Pathos...emotion in the speech and how it effects argument
Logos...structure of argument and use of logic
They should have been smashed for going off on a tangent(like arbitrarily deciding to play baseball while playing in the superbowl).
It's a shame their university professors and advisors lack the leadership and wisdom to shape these kids into winners who can successfully and innovatively bend the rules, rather than ignoring the rules.
Passionate and talented kids who are being coddled by a bunch of political correctness sycophants.
Maybe these kids have the potential to argue before or serve on the Supreme Court.
Or to participate in a debate as a local/state/federal political candidate.
None of what they did prepares them for those possibilities...at least from my perspective.
For a better understanding of what is being taught at Towson :rolleyes:
http://youtu.be/qn7c2_1rGq4
For a better understanding of what is being taught at Towson :rolleyes:
http://youtu.be/qn7c2_1rGq4
Other than the previously mentioned "performance art" I see no tangible value in what the apparently self-organized classroom of debaters is attempting to achieve.
I wonder if the critique/feedback loop was edited out, or simply doesn't exist in a "everyone's a unique snowflake" environment?
I wonder what the results would be if you quizzed every student listening about the content of the debater's rapid fire speech?
If they retained anything, maybe they'd be onto something....but I really doubt it.
Although students who've gone through high speed morse endlessly might be able to offer comment? :)
It would appear to be stretching liberal arts to new boundaries.
Or is it maybe the somewhat accurate perception of America from outsiders viewpoints?
Foreigners who visit America often comment about the incredible abundance of high volume, low cost(and at times quality) food served in restaurants.
This seems to be a bit of a parallel.
High volume, low quality speech/rhetoric/debate.
Maybe some of what the kids are saying is of high quality.....but finding the needle in the 1200 word for minute sustained fire support haystack is impossible.
The only commercial value I can think of for this type of rhetoric/debate is maybe these kids could get jobs at Fed-Ex:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeK5ZjtpO-M
For a better understanding of what is being taught at Towson :rolleyes:
http://youtu.be/qn7c2_1rGq4
Fascinating...I guess "innovative" is one way to describe what is going on...from the number of clips that I viewed here - there does appear to be some sort of therapeutic value for some of the young people participating...but calling that "debate" appears, well, debatable.
Certainly, by today's standards, some truly congressional level arguments were made in that winning debate.
<sigh>
Fascinating...I guess "innovative" is one way to describe what is going on...from the number of clips that I viewed here - there does appear to be some sort of therapeutic value for some of the young people participating...but calling that "debate" appears, well, debatable.
Certainly, by today's standards, some truly congressional level arguments were made in that winning debate.
<sigh>
In my last post, I mentioned high speed morse.
It has me wondering if there have been any genuine innovations in learning to assist with improving mental agility and the velocity of effective decision making?
I wonder if students who have learned things like high speed morse have ever been tested to see if it's had any secondary cognative benefits?
I wouldn't have a clue how the brain works in that regard.....just trying to see if maybe somewhere buried under this debate turd mountain is a pony.
In my last post, I mentioned high speed morse.
It has me wondering if there have been any genuine innovations in learning to assist with improving mental agility and the velocity of effective decision making?
I wonder if students who have learned things like high speed morse have ever been tested to see if it's had any secondary cognative benefits?
I wouldn't have a clue how the brain works in that regard.....just trying to see if maybe somewhere buried under this debate turd mountain is a pony.
A little research indicates that the CEDA style of debate is not based on persuasiveness, logic, or wit.
The rapid recitation of vast quantities of evidence is a totally different animal than what I or many others might find interesting...but it is a legitimate style of "debate."
Getting up and just speaking in front of a group in a public setting is a major achievement for some folks. Doing it in a competitive environment is a step up from that. Hey, CEDA is not my cup of tea but if it helps kids learn and overcome...
Streck-Fu
05-19-2014, 17:50
I guess my standard for what should pass as University level work is completely different.
I guess my standard for should pass as University level work is completely different.
I hear you - but I confess total ignorance as to this style of debate.
Outside of the debate - the students were reasonably articulate and the winners did sound rather articulate.
I did not enjoy nor understand the debate -- but when I listen to Nancy Pelosi -- I have experienced similar feelings...
Go figure.
I hear you - but I confess total ignorance as to this style of debate.
Outside of the debate - the students were reasonably articulate and the winners did sound rather articulate.
I did not enjoy nor understand the debate -- but when I listen to Nancy Pelosi -- I have experienced similar feelings...
Go figure.
Style...remind me of Battle Rap or Smackdown
http://youtu.be/0Tu_Es2pKI0
Streck-Fu
05-20-2014, 05:13
Style...remind me of Battle Rap or Smackdown
http://youtu.be/0Tu_Es2pKI0
I prefer Epic Rap Battles of History: Edison vs Tesla (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ1Mz7kGVf0&list=PLQ-7WiWmOuK-55mfcd_tdcvy-57VMCkOW&index=5)
Shakespere vs Seuss (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGyQhDZeluE) :D