View Full Version : Phoenix VA Waiting List Scandal
WTF! :mad: :mad:
At least 40 U.S. veterans died waiting for appointments at the Phoenix Veterans Affairs Health Care system, many of whom were placed on a secret waiting list, a new report from CNN shows.
The secret list was part of an elaborate scheme designed by Veterans Affairs managers in Phoenix who were trying to hide that 1,400 to 1,600 sick veterans were forced to wait months to see a doctor, according to a recently retired top VA doctor and several high-level sources.
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/phoenix-va-hospital-scandal-40-vets-die-on-secret-phx-va-waiting-list-cnn-reports
Kinda' sounds like a Death Panel. Oh, wait, we don't have those in the United States.
You have got to be kidding me!! When is the bulls... going to end?! I am speechless and sick to my stomach after hearing this-this tuff is becoming all too common. :mad::mad:!!
Trapper John
04-28-2014, 09:53
Outrageous indeed! A classic example of the inefficiencies and mismanagement that permeates government run programs IMO. I can hear the hew and cry of faux outrage from the politicos and bureaucrats now. But will anything be done to fix the underlying problem? Not likely IMO. Not for the lack of desire by some, but simply the lack of ability and capability. IMO, a very strong case could be made for privatization of VA.
BMT (RIP)
04-28-2014, 10:19
My primary care VA doctor usually schedule's my yearly check-up for March.
Last year I never got an appointment letter.
About September I went to the clinic and ask why I hadn't gotten an appointment.
Oh you must of slipped thru the crack!
Looks like the same thing is going to happen this year!
BMT
swatsurgeon
04-28-2014, 16:50
Welcome to universal Obamacare, VA style. It is a true crime that this was allowed to occur but when health care is determined and organized by administrators rather than medical personnel, this is what can and does happen. I have a feelng that many more reports are gong to surface of similar cases......I remember saying to people before the Obama care fiasco started and he was re- elected..... Look how good the post office, Amtrak and the VA systems are run by government.
Scimitar
04-28-2014, 17:03
Absolutely unbelievable. Someone should be held up on Criminal negligence!
Of all the arguments I've read FOR the ACA, this is the one they loss clearly every time.
The best argument I've heard AGAINST the ACA...
Life is unfair, when the world is left to run by natural forces (read free markets), the weak man will blame G-d. When the world is run by the government, now the weak man has someone he can blame AND fight, and he WILL fight, firstly with an attitude of entitlement, then with a gun....(or a knife if the democrats are in power much longer).
S
Two years ago while with the SOCOM Care Coalition I traveled to PHO to meet with staff there regarding a case -
It was a productive meeting and the director at the time, of the department/program I was working ith, was very up front/helpful -
Along the way I learned about the challenges they have in that county with its VET population numbers wise - and staffing - and resources -
I came away wondering how the good folks there get it done to the degree they do -
No excuse for BS VA internal game playing with our vets -
But there are good, hard working staff there that are doing the best they can and are very, very frustrated -
Trapper John
04-28-2014, 19:04
But there are good, hard working staff there that are doing the best they can and are very, very frustrated -
And that is the crux of problem, i.e resource allocation/reallocation. Something government does poorly and the private sector does extremely well. JMHO
The Reaper
04-28-2014, 19:28
I have dealt with the Fayetteville and Durham VA, and have been in the facilities as a patient a couple of dozen times.
While Fayetteville is by far the worse, both suffer from a huge number of worthless employees who could give a shit less about a vet or the vet's health. From their apparent perspective, the vet is an annoyance who interrupts their personal phone calls, smoke breaks, office parties, social media, extended lunches, etc.
Unfortunately, it appears to me that the VA is an employment program for many who could not get a job in a non-government position, and who have job security for life, which seems to me to consist primarily of personal business, interrupted at the absolute minimum number of times by patient needs.
IMHO, given the authority, a personnel roster, and a couple of days of observation, I could cut the staff of either facility I have visited by at least 25% without any appreciable impact on patient care. In fact, it might even improve.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
I receive my care from the Portland VA in Oregon :)
To date I've only had one issue with an Ortho doc and that was swiftly resolved via the OIF/OEF/OND staff at same location.
Otherwise any and everything else has been very professional, friendly and timely.
The Audio/Vision clinics are exceptional, IMHO.
I guess we're pretty lucky here:cool:
I have dealt with the Fayetteville and Durham VA, and have been in the facilities as a patient a couple of dozen times.
While Fayetteville is by far the worse, both suffer from a huge number of worthless employees who could give a shit less about a vet or the vet's health. From their apparent perspective, the vet is an annoyance who interrupts their personal phone calls, smoke breaks, office parties, social media, extended lunches, etc.
Unfortunately, it appears to me that the VA is an employment program for many who could not get a job in a non-government position, and who have job security for life, which seems to me to consist primarily of personal business, interrupted at the absolute minimum number of times by patient needs.
IMHO, given the authority, a personnel roster, and a couple of days of observation, I could cut the staff of either facility I have visited by at least 25% without any appreciable impact on patient care. In fact, it might even improve.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
And THIS is an OUTRAGE!:mad:
I have a feeling that the common American folk do not know this fact TR Sir, but you can sure as Hell Bet We CARE! And this is something that needs to be brought to the doorstep of EVERY US Congressman!
For Shame on America, for treating Our Bravest this way!!!
Holly
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/2014/04/30/phoenix-veteran-hospital-deaths-investigation/8518721/
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/2014/04/30/phoenix-veteran-hospital-deaths-investigation/8518721/
"Dr. Robert Petzel, undersecretary for health with the $153billion federal agency, told the Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs that an administrative team visited Phoenix soon after the national controversy erupted over treatment of vets.
"I need to say that to date we've found no evidence of a secret list, and we have no patients who have died because they have been on a wait list," he said.
Excuse me, but, how the hell can you possibly know if a Patient died because they were on the wait list you ASSHAT!!! They are dead. :mad:
What a Freaking JOKE!
Hope there is swift and strong justice for these brave Veterans and their families!
Prayers Out!
Holly
Badger52
05-05-2014, 16:24
Hope there is swift and strong justice for these brave Veterans and their families!
Prayers Out!
HollyI'm with you, but will make a prediction. Even though "there is not a smidgen" of evidence, the allegation of wrongful death will get this thing referred to the Department of Justice; ergo, investigation-in-progress = don't have to comment. That is SOP when an inconvenience needs somewhere to go & die.
TOMAHAWK9521
05-06-2014, 23:27
I'm with you, but will make a prediction. Even though "there is not a smidgen" of evidence, the allegation of wrongful death will get this thing referred to the Department of Justice; ergo, investigation-in-progress = don't have to comment. That is SOP when an inconvenience needs somewhere to go & die.
The VA clinic up in Ft Collins, CO is now under investigation for the same thing after they got dimed out by another group of whistleblowers. I don't believe any deaths were involved but it sounds about as screwed up as the one in AZ.
Well, I don't remember who the QP was that said it; but he said that the administrations always claim that "Nothing is too good for our vets!" and his response was: "And nothing is what we get."
I am appalled that this has been done to those who have loyally served this country. My prayers out to the friends and family of these poor veterans; but I know that they are with Almighty God, and all their suffering has ended.
Badger52
05-09-2014, 04:48
Small portion of the letter from Rep. Mike Coffman:
Secretary Shinseki owes his resignation to the same men and women who served under him in the U.S. Army because he has failed so miserably to “take care of the troops” who are no longer on active duty but who are now under the care of the VA.
If the VA was a military organization run by the same standards that General Shinseki demanded of his subordinates leaders during his service in the U.S. Army, he would have been relieved of his command a long time ago for his failure to effectively provide leadership.
LINK to article (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/05/09/veterans-affairs-secretary-eric-shinseki-must-resign/)