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I have asked the Chapter XXI pres if we have anyone working on this. It needs a lot of exposure. Share and spread the word.
Green Beret Kicked Off Campus For Having Service Dog - Video
A retired Green Beret and student at St. Petersburg College in Florida was recently ejected from campus on the grounds that his service dog "Lucky" wasn't allowed on the premises. Bill Smith, 63, was retired as a colonel with a 100 percent disability
rating for PTSD in 2011. Smith was present at the Pentagon during the 9/11 attacks and has multiple combat deployments under his belt.
According to an article in The Tampa Tribune, Smith had provided documentation from a guide dog association that identified "Lucky" as being a service dog, although the canine was already outfitted in obvious service animal attire and shouldn't have needed verification. Campus police ignored
the documentation and Smith was forced to leave.
Alarmingly, Smith and his canine assistant were already registered with the campus's Americans with Disabilities Act office. Yet, when he went to take the matter up with them, after not receiving help from other school authorities, he was told the only way he would be able to return with his working dog was if he supplied a physician's letter to the school describing
the specifics of his disability for which the dog was needed.
There are a few problems with that request, and the first and foremost issue is that it is illegal. The federal law that was being broken was put in place as a part of the updated 2011 version of the Americans with Disabilities Act, which was, ironically, the very office that was forcing Smith to disclose the specifics of his medical condition.
The ADA specifically mentions PTSD as a legitimate condition for the use of a support animal, and the following points were taken directly from the Americans with Disabilities Act government website:
http://www.funker530.com/green-beret-kicked-off-campus-for-having-service-dog-video/
Remington Raidr
03-01-2014, 04:41
Fvck them. Pay this window.:mad:
So if he was blind or had epilepsy would he have to provide a Doctors note? Man that sounds so High School.
I would be call a lawyer and sueing this university and taking to every news media that would do an interview with me. Also since I'm a retired Colonel and SF I would be reaching out to every military contact I have and start hitting that university with every form of social media to get the word out on have they treat their military, retirees and disabled students.
The documentation issue may become the norm at some point because of the growing issues of 'poser' service dogs. There was a news report on it around here this past week. I see a number of service dogs around here bing brought into grocery stores, delis, and restaurants - on the surface and with their behaviors, not all of them appear to be genuine to me and I've wondered about some of the dogs I've seen being touted as service dogs.
http://www.examiner.com/article/fake-service-dog-gear-hearing-sacramento
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/10/fake-service-dogs_n_4075308.html
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/01/17/i-team-fake-service-dogs-may-pose-real-problems/
http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/health/2014/02/14/fake-service-dogs/5254085/
http://www.ehow.com/how_8338423_recognize-fake-service-dog-ma.html
Richard
In Az you pay 250 bucks online and you have a 'service dog'...you should see some of the mangy mutts wearing svc dog attire, or being carried in a purse.
OTOH fvck that school too....different deal.
Here is the link to the Trustees of St. Petersburg College in Florida, and a handy dandy phone number and email address.
What an absolute disgusting way to treat a Veteran!!! I hope these folks feel the heat, and fast!:mad:
http://www.spcollege.edu/pages/bot.aspx?id=2147484654
"You can contact SPC's Board of Trustees by e-mail at board@spcollege.edu or by calling 727-341-3241."
The documentation issue may become the norm at some point because of the growing issues of 'poser' service dogs. There was a news report on it around here this past week. I see a number of service dogs around here bing brought into grocery stores, delis, and restaurants - on the surface and with their behaviors, not all of them appear to be genuine to me and I've wondered about some of the dogs I've seen being touted as service dogs.
http://www.examiner.com/article/fake-service-dog-gear-hearing-sacramento
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/10/fake-service-dogs_n_4075308.html
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/01/17/i-team-fake-service-dogs-may-pose-real-problems/
http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/health/2014/02/14/fake-service-dogs/5254085/
http://www.ehow.com/how_8338423_recognize-fake-service-dog-ma.html
Richard
In Az you pay 250 bucks online and you have a 'service dog'...you should see some of the mangy mutts wearing svc dog attire, or being carried in a purse.
OTOH fvck that school too....different deal.
I understand that I know that many business tell their employees don't ask just let them come in because of lawsuits being brought onto that business.
I was in the South Post commissary last week and had some woman bring in a small Chihuahua or Pikachu looking dog. It wasn't in her purse, but was on a leash. She just walked in and I said to her. Umm Ma'ma that isn't a service animal. She answered and so with a big smile. I told her she couldn't bring it in. She gave a look as watch me and put it in the cart basket area were a child sit. I proceeded to tell her that you're taking away from the actual service dogs that are authorized to come and what you're doing is improper, in moral and wrong. She turned and walked away. I walk passed her saying your a piece a shit service members wife to take of away from people your ungrateful and your actions. While shopping, I asked one of the managers about it. He said headquarters is instructed them not to ask just let them come in even though you can look and see the dog is not a service animal. This is the same thing that is local businesses and restaurants here in town.
Something needs to be done, yet as PRB stated, it nothing more or different than getting your handicap little tag from any doctor or buying what your state needs or service dog vest off the Internet just because you have $200, $300 or probably $100.
In Az you pay 250 bucks online and you have a 'service dog'...you should see some of the mangy mutts wearing svc dog attire, or being carried in a purse.
:D It might be worth $250 to take my avatar dog on a stroll through Walmart. :eek:
Pat
This Veteran had his paperwork in order, with the guide dog association and the campus. It's not like he was unaware or trying to get over on anybody.
Seems like it would have been better if the campus police respected the Veteran status, let him go on to class, and asked him to follow up with the proper campus officials within 24 hours.
It's outrageous they would eject Col Smith, and even more outrageous they would ask him to submit a list of his diagnoses/conditions.
Regarding service animals, my brother worked as a station manager in the airline industry for many years. He said he's had to let service pigs and service monkeys onto planes because supposedly those people wouldn't stay calm in flight without the emotional support of their animals. How did we humans fly or manage any stress before all these service animals came into existence? I can see why it's easy to abuse....
Here is the link to the Trustees of St. Petersburg College in Florida, and a handy dandy phone number and email address.
What an absolute disgusting way to treat a Veteran!!! I hope these folks feel the heat, and fast!:mad:
http://www.spcollege.edu/pages/bot.aspx?id=2147484654
"You can contact SPC's Board of Trustees by e-mail at board@spcollege.edu or by calling 727-341-3241."
Thanks
and if you want to make your feelings a little more personal??
Dr. William D. Law, Jr., President
The Board of Trustees
St. Petersburg College
P.O. Box 13489
St. Petersburg FL 33733-3489
727-341-4772
727-341-3241
board@spcollege.edu
Here is the link to the Trustees of St. Petersburg College in Florida, and a handy dandy phone number and email address.
What an absolute disgusting way to treat a Veteran!!! I hope these folks feel the heat, and fast!:mad:
http://www.spcollege.edu/pages/bot.aspx?id=2147484654
"You can contact SPC's Board of Trustees by e-mail at board@spcollege.edu or by calling 727-341-3241."The BS presented nowadays....
It took me a mere minutes to read through the link and this caught my attention...
Deveron M. Gibbons, Chairman
Deveron M. Gibbons, of St. Petersburg, has been vice president of Public Affairs with the Amscot Corporation since 2005. Previously, he was senior government affairs advisor at Holland and Knight from 2003 to 2005 and director of government affairs for the Department of Community Affairs from 2000 to 2001. A St. Petersburg native, he received his Bachelor of Arts in Political Science from the University of Florida in 1995 and his master’s in Public Administration from the University of South Florida in 2006. His association with SPC began at age 3, when he would accompany his mother to the library on what is now the St. Petersburg/Gibbs Campus.:confused: Originally appointed in June, 2006, Gibbons was reappointed for a term beginning April 23, 2012, and ending May 31, 2014.
:D It might be worth $250 to take my avatar dog on a stroll through Walmart. :eek:
Pat
I know..I have a solid black pit bull (that'll kill you by licking you to death) that would be fun in the super market.
This isn't a Veteran's issue, it's an ADA issue.
About 20+ years ago handicapped parking spots started appearing. Because of no/minimal penalty or enforcement those parking spots were abused. In the past decade serious fines have been attached to those parking spots.
Maybe something could be done to make service animal abuse a bit more painful - on those that fake their service animal status and those that abuse legitimate service animal owners.
I'm thinking awareness, special (free) licensing, standard signage, and fines for abuse.
WCH is right - this is a ADA issue.
This Veteran had his paperwork in order, with the guide dog association and the campus. It's not like he was unaware or trying to get over on anybody.
Seems like it would have been better if the campus police respected the Veteran status, let him go on to class, and asked him to follow up with the proper campus officials within 24 hours.
It's outrageous they would eject Col Smith, and even more outrageous they would ask him to submit a list of his diagnoses/conditions.
In order according to who?
It's not a "Veteran status" issue.
Documenting need is not outrageous. Posers are everywhere!
In order according to who?
It's not a "Veteran status" issue.
Documenting need is not outrageous. Posers are everywhere!
No, that wasn't my point. By Veteran status I meant that the campus policeman had a Veteran in front of him, and a senior citizen on top of that....neither of those "types" or "statuses" are usually troublemakers....why not give benefit of the doubt and let the person proceed to class, follow up later.
I don't know exactly what docs Col Smith had. But if he showed paperwork when asked and seemed diligent in trying to fulfill the correct procedures, why be a hard ass? Use judgment.
Documenting need is not outrageous, but that is not what I said. It is apparently illegal to make someone itemize details of their disabilities, as was stated in the article:
When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, REQUIRE MEDICAL DOCUMENTATION, require a specific identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.
The BS presented nowadays....
It took me a mere minutes to read through the link and this caught my attention...
Yes Sir!
Reading through those bios was like watching paint dry, and it makes it all the more disgusting to me that an SF Col. was treated with such disdain and disrespect!!!
How dare these bottom feeders with an obvious agenda think they can get away with it? That is what is burning me up inside!
THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!!:mad:
Holly
Yes Sir!
Reading through those bios was like watching paint dry, and it makes it all the more disgusting to me that an SF Col. was treated with such disdain and disrespect!!!
How dare these bottom feeders with an obvious agenda think they can get away with it? That is what is burning me up inside!
THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!!:mad:
Holly
In this situation, he's a student, not an SF Col.
With respect WCH, from a civilians perspective, I believe every current and retired military service member deserves a higher level of respect than Col. Smith was given. I believe the cop was envious of this man's service, and that's why he singled him out. I'd like to think that if the cop was prior service, he would've let Col. Smith go about his business.
Sure, there are plenty of posers out there, but it's not my job as a civilian to weed them out. I believe questioning someone's service, as someone who never served, is disrespectful.
Sure, there are plenty of posers out there, but it's not my job as a civilian to weed them out.
Yes. It Is.
Holly
In this situation, he's a student, not an SF Col.
Yes Sir,:o
However, don't you think even if it was a mere student being in compliance with ADA rules, that should have negated the fact that He was subject to this cross examination of producing documentation of his exact disability?
Just know that from first-hand knowledge, as my sister follows all ADA rules in compliance with her disability of being blind and wheelchair bound. (And she REFUSES to let us park her van in the Handicapped Parking! She preferres to roll.)
And Yep, I am the crazy patron in the Wal-Mart parking lots who CONFRONTS the Disabled tag SUV's who park in the "wrong" spots.
Anyway...
Holly
With respect WCH, from a civilians perspective, I believe every current and retired military service member deserves a higher level of respect than Col. Smith was given. I believe the cop was envious of this man's service, and that's why he singled him out. I'd like to think that if the cop was prior service, he would've let Col. Smith go about his business.
Sure, there are plenty of posers out there, but it's not my job as a civilian to weed them out. I believe questioning someone's service, as someone who never served, is disrespectful.
How would campus a security guard/police officer(?) know that Smith was a Vet, or what his service record was when he approached him at that table?
The only thing that matters in this case is the ADA, not his military service, or his age (senior citizen).
GrumpyMedic
03-01-2014, 22:04
I can certainly see, respect and agree with your point WCH. On a personal level it outrages me that someone that should have the respect of the masses is treated so poorly, but as you said how was the LEO to know?
To me the greater concern is the idea that the COL (Ret.) is required to present a list of his diagnosis, not a document stating his need of a service animal. At what point does this become a violation of HIPAA? How is it the school's business what the animal is needed for? Why isn't the privacy of the person in need of an animal being protected?
I can certainly see, respect and agree with your point WCH. On a personal level it outrages me that someone that should have the respect of the masses is treated so poorly, but as you said how was the LEO to know?
To me the greater concern is the idea that the COL (Ret.) is required to present a list of his diagnosis, not a document stating his need of a service animal. At what point does this become a violation of HIPAA? How is it the school's business what the animal is needed for? Why isn't the privacy of the person in need of an animal being protected?
I don't place much value in the accuracy of news articles when the reporter doesn't bother to check the basic facts before publishing it.
In this case it states - "Clearly the campus police of St. Petersburg College as well as the campus’s ADA office are in violation of federal law."
SPC is a state college (formally a Junior/Community college) which unlike Florida State Universities, does not have it's own campus police department. It appears in the video that it was campus security guards not LEOs (BIG difference) that initiated the event.
I'll wait till the facts are made public before passing judgment on the situation.
Over the years, I've come to believe in the picture below....
Yes Sir,:o
However, don't you think even if it was a mere student being in compliance with ADA rules, that should have negated the fact that He was subject to this cross examination of producing documentation of his exact disability?
Just know that from first-hand knowledge, as my sister follows all ADA rules in compliance with her disability of being blind and wheelchair bound. (And she REFUSES to let us park her van in the Handicapped Parking! She preferres to roll.)
And Yep, I am the crazy patron in the Wal-Mart parking lots who CONFRONTS the Disabled tag SUV's who park in the "wrong" spots.
Anyway...
Holly
I had to provide the State (FL) DMV with a letter from my 2-1/2 daughter's doctor stating the medical reason for requesting of a handicap parking permit. She used an electric powered wheelchair which we transported in a van with a lift. That was 27 years ago, so I'm not sure of what is required today.
I wouldn't confront anyone in a parking lot, but when I see cars parked in handicapped space I call the PD and report it. They usually respond in time and often have the vehicle towed from the space.
To me the greater concern is the idea that the COL (Ret.) is required to present a list of his diagnosis, not a document stating his need of a service animal. At what point does this become a violation of HIPAA? How is it the school's business what the animal is needed for? Why isn't the privacy of the person in need of an animal being protected?
I'm not sure why anyone thinks this is a problem.
As a school, we required such information for any students requiring special medical attention, treatements, or provisions to be kept on file with our school nurse and managed under HIPAA guidelines - she maintained the finite health files and we had a 'sanitized' version outlining the generic needs of the student in the student's administrative file for confidential access and use by staff and faculty. The nurse was also available to provide greater guidance to staff and faculty regarding a student's health needs when necessary.
It is not a big deal to manage - unless somebody violates it - and is an important part of a school making informed decisions in its efforts to support students, staff, and faculty with identified health or learning issues.
Richard
I'm not sure why anyone thinks this is a problem. A "public" school is NOT a for profit school hence, the difference.....:munchin
A "public" school is NOT a for profit school hence, the difference.....:munchin
St Petersburg College is a "public" not for profit school.
GrumpyMedic
03-02-2014, 11:00
I'm not sure why anyone thinks this is a problem.
As a school, we required such information for any students requiring special medical attention, treatements, or provisions to be kept on file with our school nurse and managed under HIPAA guidelines - she maintained the finite health files and we had a 'sanitized' version outlining the generic needs of the student in the student's administrative file for confidential access and use by staff and faculty. The nurse was also available to provide greater guidance to staff and faculty regarding a student's health needs when necessary.
It is not a big deal to manage - unless somebody violates it - and is an important part of a school making informed decisions in its efforts to support students, staff, and faculty with identified health or learning issues.
Richard
As always seems to be the norm, you've shed light for me Richard. I do tend to miss the otherside's point of view sometimes.
The issue is about a service dog being able to provide for its master, not a school nurse administering medications which I agree must have the documentation in order.
I can certainly see, respect and agree with your point WCH. On a personal level it outrages me that someone that should have the respect of the masses is treated so poorly, but as you said how was the LEO to know?
To me the greater concern is the idea that the COL (Ret.) is required to present a list of his diagnosis, not a document stating his need of a service animal. At what point does this become a violation of HIPAA? How is it the school's business what the animal is needed for? Why isn't the privacy of the person in need of an animal being protected?
HIPAA rules prohibit the release of the student's health records to the public without express permission (IE:the media), not the school asking the student for medical history, as FERPA does for their academic records.
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/administrative/privacyrule/
The issue is about a service dog being able to provide for its master, not a school nurse administering medications which I agree must have the documentation in order.
You missed my point - "...requiring special medical attention, treatements, or provisions..." - the issue is about the school having on file and maintained IAW HIPAA guidelines the information as to why one of their students requires such an exception to their normal policies - whether it is medication or any other support requirements - to help provide reasonable support or to reconcile any problems with it.
For example - if the school like this one has to reconcile a scheduling or other issue related to a student such as the retired Colonel with a recognized need for a service dog and another student, staff, or faculty members who may have something like a diagnosed pet allergy or cynophobia.
These matters can be more complicated than one would think, and knowledge helps both those being supported and those doing the supporting.
Richard
IMO, there's more to this story than what has been posted here.
The issue is about a service dog being able to provide for its master, not a school nurse administering medications which I agree must have the documentation in order.
Agreed, Being aware of prescription drugs on campus, be it pubic or private, K-12 or college, can not be described as the same as a service animal.
In the case of drugs, schools need to be aware of what is needed to help the student,, AND there are a million ambulance chasers willing to go court at the drop of a pill..
But what is any institution going to do for a service animal??
Check to see it's petted regularly??
Do a flee inspection??
Make sure the pet isn't fed peanuts??
I see the Col's service animal as a completely different pyridine to students needing medications.
As the Col had registered his service dog with the school and it was an acknowledged service animal, the attitude and actions of the doughnut chaser is not acceptable. The school is also in a fail mode for non-support.
:munchin
Okie thanks for that post on HIPPA & ADA. I never knew that
Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.
For me I understand that people have rights and everything, but today to much can be purchased off the internet and people take advantage of systems so they have the advantage that they shouldn't have. Any can buy a vest off the Internet and throw on their house dog called a service animal and walk into the grocery store, restaurant or any establishment. I think that establishment should be able to ask for a card or some type of documentation that shows that dog is a registered service dog with the, I don't care, health department or whatever agency to show that it is a actual service dog. Yes you can say that's all government control over people everything along that road, but I think a dog is different from a person in a wheelchair. Yes you can say what now you will be to start asking about shots on the dog showing records for that. IMO then rolled into an identification card, when the person gets the card issued for the animal all those veterinarian required shots and checks are already updated. Yes you can say it's like a state inspection sticker it's outdated once you roll out of that garage after checked, yes I know but it's something. Like here in North Carolina the state, through the vets knows that you have an animal and tax you based off of the animal is neutered fixed or not.
I think a business should be able to ask for an ID card showing the animal is a service animal.
Agreed, Being aware of prescription drugs on campus, be it pubic or private, K-12 or college, can not be described as the same as a service animal.
In the case of drugs, schools need to be aware of what is needed to help the student,, AND there are a million ambulance chasers willing to go court at the drop of a pill..
But what is any institution going to do for a service animal??
Check to see it's petted regularly??
Do a flee inspection??
Make sure the pet isn't fed peanuts??
I see the Col's service animal as a completely different pyridine to students needing medications.
As the Col had registered his service dog with the school and it was an acknowledged service animal, the attitude and actions of the doughnut chaser is not acceptable. The school is also in a fail mode for non-support.
:munchin
Here's a few things that I have heard:
1. Smith a SPC student for 4 years, had not complied with the campus ADA procedures prior to the incident.
2. The only "doughnut chasers" involved in this incident were the City of Clearwater Police who were responding to a call from Col Smith (has he been vetted?).
3. Smith left before the police officers arrived at the campus.
4. SPC has says that as far as they are concerned the matter has been settled. The can't comment further because of student privacy laws (FERPA).
It appears that Smith brought this on himself.
Some/much of what was written in the articles linked here appears to be incorrect.
Richard FYI the rules have changed since 2011
Thanks. Those are some major changes. Although I can appreciate what they are attempting to do, I'm not sure I agree with them all, though.
For example, in school related matters, what the rules say may work in a larger school with large classrooms and hundreds of students offering a great number of choices for class scheduling of the same course and opportunites for separation, but what of smaller schools with much smaller 20-30 student-sized classrooms or in required upper level courses with limited course offerings which are held with <15 students and a professor seated together at a single table in an even smaller room. I've experienced both environments in both public and private schools, colleges, and universities.
Who is accomodated? Or is that where the "...if possible..." wording in the ADA regulations comes into play.
I agree with WCH and it will be interesting to see how this all shakes out in the final wash.
Not having to deal with these sorts of issues any longer is a perk to being retired and getting to spend time walking the fields with my two dogs as they look for pheasant, quail, rabbits, ducks, geese, an occasional King or Gopher Snake and anything else they can manage to scare up out there and I only have to concern myself with them scaring up a skunk or coyote.
Richard
The more I read and hear about this case, the more I believe that Bill Smith is in this for a paycheck from the taxpayers.
Has it been verified that he is in fact SF qualified?
Disabled Pasco woman sues nudist community over service dog (http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/civil/disabled-pasco-woman-sues-nudist-community-claims-discrimination/2167334)
How would campus a security guard/police officer(?) know that Smith was a Vet, or what his service record was when he approached him at that table?
The only thing that matters in this case is the ADA, not his military service, or his age (senior citizen).
The hat Col. Smith had on his table, facing the cop, has something on the front and back; could it be a Special Forces Crest with Special Forces on the back? Col. Smith is wearing what looks like a GBF hat, and a Special Forces Crest on his shirt in the picture from the article, so based on the evidence presented, I think it's reasonable to believe Col. Smith was wearing something that indicated his service during the encounter with the cop.
The cops weight and flattop haircut lead me to believe Col. Smith was singled out because Col. Smith is in pretty good shape, comparatively. Billy badass had an opportunity to show a real badass who's boss, so that's my take.
Update from Google: Colonel Smith Air Force Colonel (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/colonel-bill-smith-usaf-retired/8/960/4b8)?? Is this the same guy?
Yes. It Is.
Holly
I'm very sorry. I meant to say that I cannot do it because I have very little knowledge about spotting a fake. I have learned a lot from the Hall of Shame forum so I'll get more involved when I have the ammo I need to make those assertions in a public setting. I've only once run across a person wearing a Special Forces hat, and I wasn't about to probe in his gun store. I think I may have just popped my cherry! (see previous post)
The hat Col. Smith had on his table, facing the cop, has something on the front and back; could it be a Special Forces Crest with Special Forces on the back? Col. Smith is wearing what looks like a GBF hat, and a Special Forces Crest on his shirt in the picture from the article, so based on the evidence presented, I think it's reasonable to believe Col. Smith was wearing something that indicated his service during the encounter with the cop.
The cops weight and flattop haircut lead me to believe Col. Smith was singled out because Col. Smith is in pretty good shape, comparatively. Billy badass had an opportunity to show a real badass who's boss, so that's my take.
Update from Google: Colonel Smith Air Force Colonel (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/colonel-bill-smith-usaf-retired/8/960/4b8)?? Is this the same guy?
1. The picture in the article was NOT taken at the time of the incident.
2. A do you really believe that most people know what SF insignia are?
I don't. Besides, such items are readily available to anyone who has the money to buy them.
3. Col Smith was confronted by Campus Security not police officers. One was a woman.
4. Smith called the city PD, but didn't bother to stay till they arrived a few minutes later.
My response to your statements in red.... You gotta be shitting me!
BTW, I live near SPC, which has a number of campuses. I use their library, and know people that are employed there. From what I have heard, Col Smith has been a trouble maker since he has been on campus. IMO, he set this up so he can get a paycheck at the expense of the taxpayers. :munchin
Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.
MtnGoat said: I think a business should be able to ask for an ID card showing the animal is a service animal.
Agree. Service animals should be required to have a handicap license tag on their collar that anyone can ask to see.
If it takes a special tag to park a vehicle in a parking lot, how much more important is it that animals in public places also have a tag?
S.
The Reaper
03-04-2014, 14:49
Agree. Service animals should be required to have a handicap license tag on their collar that anyone can ask to see.
If it takes a special tag to park a vehicle in a parking lot, how much more important is it that animals in public places also have a tag?
S.
I agree.
There is a lot of abuse with people bringing their non-service trained pets with them and using the ADA as cover.
A certificate of training should be issued and ID carried when the animal is present.
TR
1. The picture in the article was taken at the time of the incident.
With respect WCH, did he change clothes?
2. A do you really believe that most people know what SF insignia are? I don't. Besides, such items are readily available to anyone who has the money to buy them.
I think those in law enforcement, including those who do campus security, have a higher propensity to. A lot of the guys at the local PD are 'high speed commandos'. You think they wouldn't want to say they were Special Forces soldiers? That a campus security officer, who's likely a campus security officer because he couldn't hack it as a cop, wouldn't envy a Special Forces soldier and single one out given the chance?
My response to your statements in red.... You gotta be shitting me!
Why is his appearance not subject to consideration in this incident? Most likely he is just campus security. Why aren't hired security LEO's? Some are retired LEO's, Miltary, or regular Joe's, but a lot of them do it because they couldn't get into the local PD. The way he treated Col. Smith, his profession, his weight, and his choice of a haircut gives me the impression that he's got a chip on his shoulder.
With respect WCH, did he change clothes?
Look at the video of the incident, and compare it to the pic you posted. It's obvious that he was not dressed the same.
I think those in law enforcement, including those who do campus security, have a higher propensity to. A lot of the guys at the local PD are 'high speed commandos'. You think they wouldn't want to say they were Special Forces soldiers? That a campus security officer, who's likely a campus security officer because he couldn't hack it as a cop, wouldn't envy a Special Forces soldier and single one out given the chance?
IMO, you are talking out of you ass!
Why is his appearance not subject to consideration in this incident? Most likely he is just campus security. Why aren't hired security LEO's? Some are retired LEO's, Miltary, or regular Joe's, but a lot of them do it because they couldn't get into the local PD. The way he treated Col. Smith, his profession, his weight, and his choice of a haircut gives me the impression that he's got a chip on his shoulder.
The more I read what you post, the more I believe you are an idiot! You also seem to be a wannabe!
WCH
OUT
Part of the problem is the animal does not have to be specially trained. If a MD says this animal or pack of dogs keeps helps you with your PTSD etc then it is now your service dog. Again I can see both sides of the issue, but it opens things up to a lot of abuse.
Where do you get this information from?
Service Dogs - ADA
http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
spherojon
03-04-2014, 17:15
That a campus security officer, who's likely a campus security officer because he couldn't hack it as a cop, wouldn't envy a Special Forces soldier and single one out given the chance?
I don't know how it works in other states, but in CA, the Campus Police are technically, State Troopers, sworn in and a "security officer" or CSO is a community service officer and a STUDENT INTERN who is enrolled and in good standing student (2.5 and above) at that specific college.
I don't know how it works in other states, but in CA, the Campus Police are technically, State Troopers, sworn in and a "security officer" or CSO is a community service officer and a STUDENT INTERN who is enrolled and in good standing student (2.5 and above) at that specific college.
ST Petersburg College (where the incident took place) DOES NOT HAVE a Campus Police Department.
In Florida, University Police Departments are state accredited (some are nationally accredited) law enforcement agencies, who's officers are sworn law enforcement officers
Again SPC does not have it's own police department. The individuals involve in the incident are Campus Security - they are not LEOS.
This IMO is WAY to general.
calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties.
This is just plain BS!! No wonder people take advantage of this service and system. Underlining reason is likely fear of lawsuits if the Government didn't.
Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.
I think a business' should be able to ask, especially if the dog is not wearing a vest. Yet I know many grocery store managers that tell me that their headquarters, regional supervisors, higher-ups direct that they cannot ask anyone that comes in their store with a dog. Vest or no vest. Why.. Yeap lawsuits.
I feel that if a person had an illness that needed a service animal then they would produce the ID. Yet again you have people that like to videotape themselves open carrying, confronting cops about carrying a pistol or rifle to driving down a point of Second Amendment rights. Frinkin BS way of living we have become.
I feel that if a person had an illness that needed a service animal then they would produce the ID.
Exactly. When I wanted a handicapped parking permit for my son, his doctor wrote the order for it. I was then issued a permit and was required to display it in the window of my car when I parked in a handicap zone.
If a person needs a service animal, their doctor should write the order for it, they should be issued a permit (dog tag) and the dog would be required to display it when in service.
I don't see any difference between the two, nor any issue of non-compliance with HIPAA. Only the person and their doctor know the reason for the license.
I'm generally against more regulations, but more often than not, a few idiots make it necessary for more laws. :mad:
S.
AngelsSix
03-05-2014, 18:15
I understand that I know that many business tell their employees don't ask just let them come in because of lawsuits being brought onto that business.
I was in the South Post commissary last week and had some woman bring in a small Chihuahua or Pikachu looking dog. It wasn't in her purse, but was on a leash. She just walked in and I said to her. Umm Ma'ma that isn't a service animal. She answered and so with a big smile. I told her she couldn't bring it in. She gave a look as watch me and put it in the cart basket area were a child sit. I proceeded to tell her that you're taking away from the actual service dogs that are authorized to come and what you're doing is improper, in moral and wrong. She turned and walked away. I walk passed her saying your a piece a shit service members wife to take of away from people your ungrateful and your actions. While shopping, I asked one of the managers about it. He said headquarters is instructed them not to ask just let them come in even though you can look and see the dog is not a service animal. This is the same thing that is local businesses and restaurants here in town.
Something needs to be done, yet as PRB stated, it nothing more or different than getting your handicap little tag from any doctor or buying what your state needs or service dog vest off the Internet just because you have $200, $300 or probably $100.
Health violation. Health department can shut them down in a heartbeat. Learn how to use agencies to fight each other. If there is food, there is not supposed to be animals. I would have simply called the MP's to escort her out. No argument there!;)
AngelsSix
03-05-2014, 18:22
I agree.
There is a lot of abuse with people bringing their non-service trained pets with them and using the ADA as cover.
A certificate of training should be issued and ID carried when the animal is present.
TR
I agree. I had an AD member bring a dog in that was wearing a pink vest that said "service dog-do not pet" and the damn thing was wearing a f-ing Halti lead. A well behaved dog does not require something like that, period. This young lady was playing games with the dog to see how much she could get away with. People really have learned how to work the system and it's a damn shame that the rest of us don't stand up and demand OUR rights are important too.