View Full Version : About those WNG viral photos
ProudGSMom
02-18-2014, 18:01
I spent a lot of hours going back and forth with a group of Gold Star Mothers. This is the response to those photos, and her Chain of Command.
http://www.chicagonow.com/uncommon-sense/2014/02/gold-star-wisconsin-national-guard-honor-guard-20140218/
The Reaper
02-18-2014, 18:25
Absolutely 100% correct.
First, she chose to participate in those pics, and to post them publicly. No one forced her to.
Jimenez is totally without redemption as a leader, if he knowingly allowed this to occur. I will take his attempted defense of her actions as demonstrated evidence of the same. SGT Jiminez, the maximum range of an excuse is zero meters. Based on your comments, I do not consider you to be leadership material.
The TAG is bound by the UCMJ to investigate and if necessary, punish the individuals under his command who were involved. I hope that the other TAGs with soldiers behaving disrespectfully in these pictures are also investigated and their soldiers held accountable for their totally inappropriate and inexcusable actions. If they do so, then their duty will have been fullfilled.
She should obviously be removed from the detail, along with her fellow pranksters, and frankly, assigned to the most horrible duty possible, under close supervision by a real NCO. And smoked on a regular basis.
This is a total breach of faith with our fallen brothers and sisters.
TR
A very well thought out response thank you for sharing it. The Stars and Stripes article should at the very least be required reading for every individual who serves on a burial detail. Our nations fallen Warriors deserve a lot better than this, I want to believe that this is an isolated incident and not the norm.
CDRODA396
02-18-2014, 19:16
I spent a lot of hours going back and forth with a group of Gold Star Mothers. This is the response to those photos, and her Chain of Command.
http://www.chicagonow.com/uncommon-sense/2014/02/gold-star-wisconsin-national-guard-honor-guard-20140218/
Great article/letter. Thanks for sharing. The link to the Stars and Stripes article on the Mortuary Affairs unit provided in the letter had a statement that pretty much summed up the whole situation.
“We know what we do is important,” said Staff Sgt. Charles Ellis, 48, of Brookhaven, Miss., who leads the company’s two teams of mortuary affairs specialists. “We also know that what we do isn’t about us. There’s something wrong if there’s attention on us.”
ProudGSMom
02-18-2014, 20:09
Great article/letter. Thanks for sharing. The link to the Stars and Stripes article on the Mortuary Affairs unit provided in the letter had a statement that pretty much summed up the whole situation.
“We know what we do is important,” said Staff Sgt. Charles Ellis, 48, of Brookhaven, Miss., who leads the company’s two teams of mortuary affairs specialists. “We also know that what we do isn’t about us. There’s something wrong if there’s attention on us.”
As sometimes happens, I do try to be civil when engaging someone whose opinion I find ridiculous. Right now, that is the case with a commentor on the article. Because I could not find a 'nice' way to address it, I wimped out and stepped around it. You've now armed me with the perfect response for the next one. Which, given the mentality of too many is sure to come.
rubberneck
02-18-2014, 20:27
I never served but I'm shocked that anyone would ever show that level of disrespect for the fallen, let alone by someone in uniform. I get gallows humor when dealing with a really shitty situation but there is nothing fun about a funeral, especially a funeral for a young person who left this world far too soon.
It looks like there are two soldiers in the back on the left who appear really uncomfortable with the behavior of their peers. If that's the case I feel for them as they are now tied to this mess.
What's in the water lately. I thought the picture earlier this week of an airman pretending to french kiss the MIA/POW symbol was a new low and now we have this.
I never served but I'm shocked that anyone would ever show that level of disrespect for the fallen, let alone by someone in uniform.
It show s the state of affairs of todays leadership. Seeing that the CinC of our armed forces has absolutely NO leadership abilities, that type of behavior and attitude 'trickles' down to the troops.
In short, the monkeys are running the zoo.
It show s the state of affairs of todays leadership. Seeing that the CinC of our armed forces has absolutely NO leadership abilities, that type of behavior and attitude 'trickles' down to the troops.
In short, the monkeys are running the zoo.
You are so right!
Mr Furious
02-19-2014, 05:12
I spent a lot of hours going back and forth with a group of Gold Star Mothers. This is the response to those photos, and her Chain of Command.
http://www.chicagonow.com/uncommon-sense/2014/02/gold-star-wisconsin-national-guard-honor-guard-20140218/
Excellent message and thank you very much for sharing your post with all of us here. Thank you also for your son’s service and sacrifice, and all that you continue to do. We as a nation are forever in debt.
Javadrinker
02-19-2014, 07:09
I spent a lot of hours going back and forth with a group of Gold Star Mothers. This is the response to those photos, and her Chain of Command.
http://www.chicagonow.com/uncommon-sense/2014/02/gold-star-wisconsin-national-guard-honor-guard-20140218/
Thank you for your son's service and for his and your sacrifice. Thank you for all that you and all the other GS mom's continue to do, and for sharing this great article.
I also agree with CDRODA396 when he quotes the article in Stars and Stripes on the Mortuary Affairs Unit; “We know what we do is important,” said Staff Sgt. Charles Ellis, 48, of Brookhaven, Miss., who leads the company’s two teams of mortuary affairs specialists. “We also know that what we do isn’t about us. There’s something wrong if there’s attention on us.”
ProudGSMom
02-19-2014, 17:53
Christina Palladino from WISN-Milwaukee, the one who broke the story is on her way to my house to interview me about this. Seems the post went viral.
Right now, I'm wishing for some of the famous "Quiet Professional" mindset...calm, cool and collected under pressure.
Any tips or suggestions? They'll be here in less than an hour :eek:
Any tips or suggestions? They'll be here in less than an hour :eek:
Be calm. Pause to collect you thoughts after she asks the questions. Be polite. Don't get emotional, unless the situation requires it.
Thank you for your service to our fallen brothers and sisters.:lifter
Absolutely 100% correct.
First, she chose to participate in those pics, and to post them publicly. No one forced her to.
Jimenez is totally without redemption as a leader, if he knowingly allowed this to occur. I will take his attempted defense of her actions as demonstrated evidence of the same. SGT Jiminez, the maximum range of an excuse is zero meters. Based on your comments, I do not consider you to be leadership material.
The TAG is bound by the UCMJ to investigate and if necessary, punish the individuals under his command who were involved. I hope that the other TAGs with soldiers behaving disrespectfully in these pictures are also investigated and their soldiers held accountable for their totally inappropriate and inexcusable actions. If they do so, then their duty will have been fullfilled.
She should obviously be removed from the detail, along with her fellow pranksters, and frankly, assigned to the most horrible duty possible, under close supervision by a real NCO. And smoked on a regular basis.
This is a total breach of faith with our fallen brothers and sisters.
TR
A british war vet suggested on a british newspaper discussion thread this lot should all be sent over to Afghanistan and posted to a forward operating base as a lesson..not so much on what is humor but rather on having some humility and self respect.
...
She should obviously be removed from the detail, along with her fellow pranksters, and frankly, assigned to the most horrible duty possible, under close supervision by a real NCO. And smoked on a regular basis.
This is a total breach of faith with our fallen brothers and sisters.
TR
I disagree. Fire the lot with bad conduct discharges. They have no honor.
CDRODA396
02-19-2014, 20:32
Christina Palladino from WISN-Milwaukee, the one who broke the story is on her way to my house to interview me about this. ... They'll be here in less than an hour :eek:
I hope all went well!
ProudGSMom
02-19-2014, 20:49
Be calm. Pause to collect you thoughts after she asks the questions. Be polite. Don't get emotional, unless the situation requires it.
Thank you for your service to our fallen brothers and sisters.:lifter
That was really good advice and actually helped me put it in perspective. So, now we'll see what 2 minutes out of an hour of conversation will air! But, I won't be able to see it until they post it on their website as I can't get Milwaukee stations!
Remington Raidr
02-19-2014, 22:04
Except for the weather you were the lead story.
There is no fury, indeed.
Well done.
ProudGSMom
02-19-2014, 22:49
I didn't even get to see it and now I can't find it online. I swear, the story of my life:rolleyes:
ProudGSMom,
http://www.wisn.com/news/wisconsin/Mother-writes-open-letter-to-WI-National-Guard-after-controversial-photos-posted-online/24573202
Very moving.
That was really good advice and actually helped me put it in perspective. So, now we'll see what 2 minutes out of an hour of conversation will air! But, I won't be able to see it until they post it on their website as I can't get Milwaukee stations!
link: interview (http://www.wisn.com/news/wisconsin/Mother-writes-open-letter-to-WI-National-Guard-after-controversial-photos-posted-online/24573202)
I think you did a great job of controlling your anguish.
Well spoken..
Bless you..
Thanks you..
Well spoken. You did a great job.
GSMom - well done!!
We are all proud of you.
Bless you - we are also all in your debt. Call anytime -
Team Sergeant
02-20-2014, 08:47
Well said ProudGSMom!
mike-munich
02-20-2014, 09:13
Thank you for sharing this ma'am. I've seen the letter over at the WI NG Facebook page as well. I hope the necessary actions are taken.
God bless.
Thank you Ma'am, for sharing this with us.
The strength and courage you are showing, pales beyond comparison to anything we can imagine.
My God continue to bless you as you walk along your path.
cetheridge
02-20-2014, 10:31
Proud GSMom....Outstanding, Ma'am!
Your message well delivered by you (and well presented by the news).
Our prayers and support are with you.
Proud GSMom,
Bless You, we are proud of you.
Javadrinker
02-20-2014, 15:41
Proud GSMom,
Bless you, and thank you.
Proud of you ma'am, well stated on all accounts.
TacOfficer
02-20-2014, 16:50
Well done and thank you.
Thank you, Denise, for stepping up and being a face and voice as an example of the pain and sorrow these thoughtless Guardsmen inflicted.
Pat
Very well done thank you.
ProudGSMom
02-20-2014, 20:25
Late last night, I was feeling pretty low after that interview. I had been so excited to get the message out. In over one hour of conversation, I was feeling pretty pleased with myself that I had indeed said all I had wanted to. I'm not completely naïve and knew it would be edited, probably down to a minute or two, but felt there were several good sound bytes from which to choose.
When I finally saw the interview, I was furious. And feeling pretty stupid. And I was very concerned how my GS's would feel, as what aired was all about me.
This was never about me, only in so far as I am a GS and I and the women I quoted belong to the very small subset of those who also lost their only child. I literally went to bed thinking I'm going to get crucified, or at the very least, will need to apologize. A lot. To my GS's. To all the veterans and AD on whose behalf I had dared to speak.
And, I was very embarrassed and concerned about the reaction here.
I am a newcomer, and you all have been so very gracious to allow me the privilege of being here. To read, to learn and even occasionally throw my two cents in. I even dared to come here, seeking advice from a group I hold in the highest esteem. Then I felt I was portrayed as just as another weeping idiot. No, I didn't cry. I don't. At least not in public and never, ever in front of a camera. To me, there are few things more obscene than sticking a camera in the face of a grieving mother. I at least had that one small victory, not crying when the reporter tried to elicit a few tears by asking pointed questions about how I feel, losing my only child, etc. Ask any who know me, I do not, will not share my grief for ratings, for publicity, for the ghoulishly curious.
I cannot begin to describe how humbled I have been, reading all of your responses, your words and messages of support. And once again, I've learned something from all of you.
I now see if not the point, then at least the value of last night's broadcast. While this is about so much more than the feelings of one, or even a couple, GS moms, putting it out that way shows the human toll of this entire situation. I have to admit that the response I have received from the GS community and just about everywhere else has been overwhelming positive as well, and much in the same vein as you all have expressed here.
Tomorrow, I am hoping to have the opportunity to do a live radio interview. I am still working out the details, but I can be sure I will be able to control the message and put the focus where I intended. In other words, not on me. Once it is confirmed, I will post the details.
For me, the focus was and needs to be on the 99.9% of those who wore or wear the uniform with honor. Those who would rather cut out their own tongue rather than dishonor a fallen brother or a veteran who served honorably. The focus also is about the failure in the chain of command, that allows and even nurtures the kinds of behavior displayed by this one soldier and her NCO. The focus also needs to be on the PEC, on what is going on there, their failures in command that allow soldiers in training for one of the most sacred duties a soldier can perform to disrespect their uniform, their service, all who have gone before them and their flag.
That is in essence what I said last night, and what I hope to have the opportunity to say tomorrow on the radio. But tonight, I will sleep comfortably. Because by your kindness and support, you have shown me that sometimes, it is okay for something to be about the pain of a GS mom.
Warmest regards,
Denise
PS - I can nearly literally hear my son telling me, "You know, you're not superman and you don't have to be. Besides, you don't look so good anymore in a skin suit. No offense". When he was about 7 years old after I had gained some weight, he actually said to me "Mom, what happened? You used to be buff?". There after, it became a running joke. As in, he'd say it and then run. Yeah, I loved the brat.
ProudGSMom,
You did great and your son would be very proud. I am for you.
DOL,
Joker
mike-munich
02-21-2014, 01:37
ProudGSMom,
You did great and your son would be very proud. I am for you.
I concur.
Not for a single minute did I think your interview was about you. I thought that you did all Gold Star Mothers proud.
ProudGSMom
02-21-2014, 09:37
About 3:15pm cst, on WJZM with Joe Padula. His show runs from 3:00pm-6:00pm. This is the link - http://www.wjzm.com/localprograms/fortcampbellfridays.php
Upper left corner for the "Listen Live" button.
Well done, Mom! You did great! Your efforts made me think of this quote by Daniel J. Boorstin:
"To those who have the misfortune to die young, history assigns the role of inspirer." Thank you for speaking up!
Pericles
02-21-2014, 13:11
You did great. While we tend to be perfectionists, the reality is that you could not have done any better.
While we may speak of making the ultimate sacrifice, the parents have done so as well. You raised a son to be an honorable soldier, inculcated with character. It really is the most important job there is, because the future of our country depends upon it.
I would have been proud to have served with your son.
Proud GS Mom: Thank you for sharing your letter, and the article in Stars and Stripes. Both were excellent, as was your interview. I have never served in our armed forces, nor have I ever been a mother. I can only imagine your pain and grief; and I am so sorry that some, stupidly and callously, thought to make light of what should only be handled with the utmost respect and professional decorum.
May Almighty God give peace to your son and His peace and comfort to you, your family, and the men who knew your son as a friend and fellow warrior. Please take comfort that you will see your son again - in His kingdom. I thank you for your son's honorable service and his sacrifice - and your sacrifice as well.
You stood up for the righteous cause and in doing so willing exposed yourself as a target. Your voice has rallied others, that's a leader in my book, good job. God Bless.
doctom54
02-22-2014, 10:14
The AR ANG has taken action against one of the persons in the photo
http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2014/feb/21/arkansas-soldier-3rd-be-suspended-over-coffin-phot/?f=latest
TrapperFrank
02-22-2014, 11:40
GS Mom, you did a fantastic job in the interview and I for one did not think it was about you in the least. This whole incident made my blood boil. It brings the concept of disrespect to a new level. All of the pain and hurt I felt losing two of my men in Afghanistan in 2004 surfaced again. Ma'am you spoke so eloquently for all of us here.
ProudGSMom
02-22-2014, 23:19
The AR ANG has taken action against one of the persons in the photo
http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2014/feb/21/arkansas-soldier-3rd-be-suspended-over-coffin-phot/?f=latest
I'm not looking to see all those in that group photo discharged, but I do want every single one of them to at least answer for themselves. Then, I want answers from the PEC CoC.
The podcast of the radio interview is now up. Joe and company said everything I wanted to, everything all of you and so many others have been saying.
http://joepadula.podomatic.com/entry/2014-02-22T13_42_43-08_00
The interview starts at just after the 13 minute mark.
Keep talking about it, until the stain is scrubbed to a mere shadow more visible in memory than in reality.
And thank you all, sincerely, for your support and kind words. I meant it when I said it is more about all you veterans and AD than it is about us GS's.