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Trapper John
02-03-2014, 11:14
OK, you FOGs listen up and pay attention! If you are tired, can't sleep, have less energy, loss of sexual interest...you've seen the commercials for Low-T testosterone replacement therapy. Now here's the rest of the story...

FDA Reviews Safety of Testosterone Therapy for Men

WASHINGTON (AP) The Food and Drug Administration said Friday it is reviewing the safety of popular testosterone drugs for men in light of recent studies suggesting they can increase the risk of heart attack, stroke and death.

A study published earlier this week suggested testosterone therapy could double the risk of those problems in men older than 65. Another study published in November found that the hormone increased the risk by 30 percent.

The FDA said it is evaluating information from those studies and others but hasn't yet reached any conclusion.

The investigation comes amid an advertising blitz for testosterone gels, patches and injections marketed for low sex drive, fatigue and other age-related ailments in men.

U.S. prescriptions for testosterone have increased more than five-fold in recent years, with sales over $1.6 billion.

Testosterone injections have long been used for men with hypogonadism, a disorder defined by low testosterone caused by injury or infection to the reproductive organs.

But the latest marketing push by drugmakers is for easy-to-use gels and patches that are aimed at a much broader population of otherwise healthy older men with low levels of testosterone, the male hormone that begins to decline in the body after age 40.

Drugmakers and many doctors claim testosterone therapy can reverse some unpleasant of the signs of aging ranging from insomnia to erectile dysfunction. Those claims are mostly based on short-term studies.

The National Institute on Aging is currently conducting a long-term, 800-man trial to definitively answer whether testosterone therapy improves walking ability, sexual function, energy, memory and blood cell count in men 65 years and older.

Meanwhile the market for testosterone replacements has grown increasingly crowded.

The top-selling product in the field is Abbvie's Androgel, which is applied to the shoulders and arms. Watson Pharmaceuticals markets the Androderm patch, which slowly releases testosterone into the bloodstream. Fortesta is another testosterone gel from Endo Pharmaceuticals, and Eli Lilly's Axiron is an underarm gel that rolls on like deodorant.

http://www.pharmpro.com/news/2014/02/fda-reviews-safety-testosterone-therapy-men?et_cid=3746821&et_rid=439265529&type=cta

There is always, and I mean ALWAYS, a down-side to hormone replacement therapies. The take-away from this article is that we simply do not have the data to support the long-term safety of using testosterone therapy. Indications from some small studies are not encouraging. An abundance of caution is required at this time until we know.

Oh, and BTW, the same admonition applies to Human Growth Hormone therapy.

It's not a good idea to mess with Mother Nature. :D

Bob45nm
02-03-2014, 11:56
Damn there goes my chance to start dating 19 year old dancers again :D

NurseTim
02-03-2014, 13:35
Yeah, since dad has prostate CA AND 5 stents, I'll pass on the testaroni therapy. Thanks

cbtengr
02-03-2014, 13:54
TJ, thanks for the above post, those ads are endless and would lead one to believe that testosterone therapy was the fountain of youth.

mojaveman
02-03-2014, 14:17
Let's be honest, 99% of men are taking it to regain the libido that they had when they were young. Instead of heavy usage how about moderation? One month on and one month off?

Dusty
02-03-2014, 14:25
Testosterone injections have long been used for men with hypogonadism, a disorder defined by low testosterone caused by injury or infection to the reproductive organs.


One of you medicos PM me when they come out with something to treat hypergonadism.

JJ_BPK
02-03-2014, 14:35
Let's be honest, 99% of men are taking it to regain the libido that they had when they were young.
Instead of heavy usage how about moderation? One month up and one month down?

I was told that if it lasted longer than 6 hrs to call the ER?? :D

PedOncoDoc
02-03-2014, 14:46
One of you medicos PM me when they come out with something to treat hypergonadism.

Bob Barker was a long-time advocate for the treatment for animals. :D

Dusty
02-03-2014, 17:17
Bob Barker was a long-time advocate for the treatment for animals. :D

lol That gave me a shiver, Doc. :D

Trapper John
02-03-2014, 17:23
lol That gave me a shiver, Doc. :D

I was just going to say, but he beat me to it. :D Good one PedOnc Doc :lifter

PRB
02-03-2014, 18:08
One of you medicos PM me when they come out with something to treat hypergonadism.

Another term for this is 'precocious puberty' a place where Dusty (myself included) has been hovering for ages.

mark46th
02-03-2014, 18:13
"I was told that if it lasted longer than 6 hrs to call the ER??" JJ_BPK

Forget the doctor. I'm calling Susie, Erica, Donna...

JJ_BPK
02-03-2014, 18:15
Another term for this is 'precocious puberty' a place where Dusty (myself included) has been hovering for ages.

OK,, I think the word is wallering would beter discribe his habits?? :D

PRB
02-03-2014, 18:17
OK,, I think the word is wallering would beter discribe his habits?? :D

good point

MtnGoat
02-03-2014, 18:21
Better living though better chemistry!!

tonyz
02-03-2014, 18:26
More than six hours is quite the diamond cutter...San Fernando Valley's film industry might be calling.

Brush Okie
02-03-2014, 19:35
Had an MD tell me the skin applications go through a chemical change and some of it turns to estrogen when absorbing through fat. That in turn creates more of the side effects and issues more than the injected treatment. I am no expert just what a MD said once so take it for what it is. BTW I have never been a fan of skin applied meds because of different absorption rates etc except for some specific meds.

badshot
02-03-2014, 20:07
Had an MD tell me the skin applications go through a chemical change and some of it turns to estrogen when absorbing through fat. That in turn creates more of the side effects and issues more than the injected treatment. I am no expert just what a MD said once so take it for what it is. BTW I have never been a fan of skin applied meds because of different absorption rates etc except for some specific meds.
Time to buy stock in man-sierres

DinDinA-2
02-05-2014, 14:29
A couple of years ago I really started noticing a significant slide. Deteriorating physical stamina doing anything outdoors...cutting wood, hiking, hunting, golfing and just everything. Going to the gym was exhausting. Even a couple of hundred round range session tired me out. I would get up in the morning, eat breakfast and sit in the recliner and take a nap. I was losing muscle in my calves (were always big), thighs and upper body. I was in denial and thought I had better get checked out last year. Had a colonoscopy, (ok), full physical and complete blood work. Actually thought I had a circulatory blockage.

Blood work came back with way below, the low end of the range, in Testosterone. Started injections of T, once every two weeks. Improved energy in a couple of days. Lots more stamina doing all the things I like doing. For me, this is a life changer.

Before starting the injections I looked at the ointment method, too expensive and such care that no one touched it was too much of a hassle. Sounds like it does provide for the most "level" amount of dosage to the system though.

Injections are much cheaper, however, higher level in your body after injection than at the end of the two weeks. Hasn't been a problem so far.

Had blood drawn 60 days in, one week after an injection, and the T was mid-range, so Doc said to continue.

Do far...I am happy with the therapy. Thinking more about those young gals too-in fact most gals;)

Dusty
02-05-2014, 15:44
I hear you.

Just this Tuesday I split 6 rick of wood, filled in a hole behind the horse barn, turned manure into 3 onion rows and skinned out a 'yote, had breakfast, and fell asleep watching season 6 of Doc Martin, and I never take naps!

T time?

PSM
02-05-2014, 15:46
skinned out a 'yote,

Making fur coats for Broadway Joe now? :D

Pat

DinDinA-2
02-05-2014, 16:18
No "T" for you Dusty. Maybe things will change for you as you age. Enjoy:lifter

VVVV
02-05-2014, 16:31
I was told that if it lasted longer than 6 hrs to call the ER?? :D

I'd run to the ER, long before that...because the blood will more likely than not form clots, and will need to suctioned out with a huge hypodermic needle. :eek:

DinDinA-2
02-05-2014, 16:42
Dusty...6 ricks is two cord, where I come from. That is a pretty good morning by itself. Press on...those were the days. Seems like when I got my Medicare card, things started slipping.

Dusty
02-05-2014, 17:19
Dusty...6 ricks is two cord, where I come from. That is a pretty good morning by itself. Press on...those were the days. Seems like when I got my Medicare card, things started slipping.

I've burned half a rick since 0400 this AM.

Cold and snowy up here.

The Lil' Ice Age is comin' in...

badshot
02-05-2014, 18:00
I've burned half a rick since 0400 this AM.
Cold and snowy up here.
The Lil' Ice Age is comin' in...
Learn somethin' new everyday....'ricks'.

If you're using a regular fireplace get an insert - you'll save yourself a lot of mess, wood, and havin' to get up in the middle of the night to get it warm. At least that was my experience in the Montana mountains with subzero temperatures for seven years. (we didn't have an insert)

Sounds like if you really need the Testosterone therapy you have to weigh the risks with the benefits - if it is really lower imagine it's worth it.

Dusty
02-05-2014, 18:04
Learn somethin' new everyday....'ricks'.

If you're using a regular fireplace get an insert - you'll save yourself a lot of mess, wood, and havin' to get up in the middle of the night to get it warm.

My woodstove is an insert.

We've had several mornings in the past couple months below zero windchill.

I like it.

badshot
02-05-2014, 18:19
My woodstove is an insert.

We've had several mornings in the past couple months below zero windchill.

I like it.

Stoves are the best...

Opens the sinuses that's for sure :D

MtnGoat
03-03-2014, 05:45
Damn there goes my chance to start dating 19 year old dancers again :D

Don't give yourself another excuses, you just need to set up mind to your goal. Then work to achievement. :lifter:D

BigJimCalhoun
03-14-2014, 22:44
I have been on full replacement therapy since 2006 and this these new revelations are nothing but crap IMO. Testosterone is the number 1 male hormone and keeping that working helps keep everything else in place. This FDA is the same one that forces vaccines on our children and says that guns are bad.

I get a full blood panel done twice a year and my numbers rock, including insulin, blood glucose, t, e2, t3, shbg, etc
:lifter

T-Rock
03-15-2014, 21:32
My experience with Testosterone and rHGH is minimal, but I do think Test and hormones have their place medically, when overseen by a competent MD - especially in orthopedic/tendon-to bone surgeries, where a high rate of bone turnover, bone morphogenic protein production and collagen production is required for surgical success. I used both following both my shoulder surgeries (totally off label) while rehabbing (massive tears), under the supervision of my Doc. For me it was a miracle cure.

Contrary to what some people think, not all shoulder surgeries go well even if performed by the most skilled of surgeons, especially if you're beyond 40 years of age, and suffer massive tears (>5cm). Failure rates are as high as 50%
http://www.shoulderdoc.co.uk/article.asp?article=1378

Tendons/muscles just don't heal well when sewn back to bones. The actual healing takes quite some time, especially as you age, and as BMP production and bone turnover declines. To fix a rotator cuff tear, recipient troughs are ground into the top of the humerus where suture anchors are secured to hold the muscle an tendons in place. The healing part is what takes a while, requiring the bone to grow back into the tissue. If your bone turnover is slow, and bone morphogenic protein production and collagen production is low, chances are the surgery won't be a success. That's where Testosterone and rHGH come into play, it augments the process by increasing bone turnover and remodeling. And a plus is that it makes you feel 15 again :D

Below are some interesting studies:

http://shoulder1.com/news/mainstory.cfm/68/6

http://ajsm.highwire.org/content/32/4/934.full?cited-by=yes&legid=amjsports;32/4/934

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8964855?dopt=Abstract

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/endo.139.9.6211

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-12/uoia-gha120303.php

http://www.meds.com/conrad/acs/burns.html

Hacksaw
04-02-2014, 01:19
I have seen the back and forth on this for years, there is always going to be a study that supports or does not support the use of every damn thing in existence. I have cycled through test 6 times over the last 10 years, my blood work is good, I'm healthy, I still run around outside the wire in Afghanistan at 8k feet with ODA's at 47. I believe it works when properly taken, I have known dozens of other men in the same situation with the same outcome. I believe the retarded amount of running I did on active duty will have more long term negative effects than test will. If you are going to use than you should use under a Dr's care, it is more expensive but it's legal. If you do not have a job that requires you to stay in shape then do not use it. If you're unable to get a hard on go to Bogota for a weekend.

Surgicalcric
04-03-2014, 21:14
What Hacksaw said.

Better living though better chemistry!!

Indeed! Required since 1-1/2 of the boys is still in a ditch in Kajur, Afghanistan.

GratefulCitizen
04-05-2014, 13:13
For those interested, it might be worth trying to raise T levels naturally before going the medical route.
Read about a guy who tried this by changing diet and lifestyle.

Total T went from 383 ng/dL to 778 ng/dL and free T went from 7.2 pg/mL to 14.4 pg/mL in 90 days (4 months later total T was 826.9 ng/dL).
Despite a diet high in saturated fat, his cholesterol levels were excellent, too.

The page won't link, but the article can be found with a google search: art of manliness testosterone

In addition to the stuff he did, I've heard mushrooms and pomegranates have strong aromatase inhibitors in them.
This could be helpful to those carrying excess body fat.

Natural route might not work for everyone.
But, it's certainly a low-risk experiment.

mojaveman
04-05-2014, 15:17
For those interested, it might be worth trying to raise T levels naturally before going the medical route.
Read about a guy who tried this by changing diet and lifestyle.

Total T went from 383 ng/dL to 778 ng/dL and free T went from 7.2 pg/mL to 14.4 pg/mL in 90 days (4 months later total T was 826.9 ng/dL).
Despite a diet high in saturated fat, his cholesterol levels were excellent, too.

The page won't link, but the article can be found with a google search: art of manliness testosterone

In addition to the stuff he did, I've heard mushrooms and pomegranates have strong aromatase inhibitors in them.
This could be helpful to those carrying excess body fat.

Natural route might not work for everyone.
But, it's certainly a low-risk experiment.

Good read.

I was a heavy drinker until 15 years ago and after I quit I immediately noticed a difference in my energy level. ;) Experimented with Tribulus but found that after I used it for awhile I had to take more and more to get the same results. The side effects are noticeable too.

I agree with the author that Testosterone levels can be raised naturally by loosing weight, exercising more and changing your diet. I'm suprised he didn't mention eating raw oysters because they contain a lot of zinc.

MtnGoat
04-05-2014, 17:10
What Hacksaw said.



Indeed! Required since 1-1/2 of the boys is still in a ditch in Kajur, Afghanistan.

Good to see your mug back here brother

Last hard class
04-05-2014, 21:42
Stop eating soy. You might be surprised how many products contain soy.


LHC

GratefulCitizen
04-05-2014, 22:01
Stop eating soy. You might be surprised how many products contain soy.


LHC

Hear, hear.
Soy oil, soy protein, etc.

It's in everything.
I don't let my 6 and 13 year old boys eat soy products.