View Full Version : Green Berets, Nuclear Backpacks, Cold War, Soviet Invasion, Oh My...
Team Sergeant
01-30-2014, 19:46
Wow, did any of you guys ever hear about this? :munchin
Nuclear backpacks, what will we think of next?
How the U.S. Army planned to use nuclear backpacks to halt Soviet invasion in the Cold War
Device was 18in high and could deliver 1 kiloton nuclear blast
After detonator timer was set troops were expected to stay close by to make sure bomb didn't fall into enemy hands
Mission was so dangerous potential recruits said they would rather return to Vietnam War
Special Forces had to dive, ski and parachute with bomb strapped to them
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
PUBLISHED: 13:41 EST, 30 January 2014 | UPDATED: 17:35 EST, 30 January 2014
At the height of the Cold War the U.S. had a secret plan to help them if the Soviets should try to invade.
Special Forces, wearing 58lb nuclear warheads strapped to their backs, would be parachuted in over enemy lines to set off a devastating obstacle.
It may have been a fraction of the 15 kiloton blast dropped on Hiroshima during the Second World War, but the backpack bombs were seen as a valuable asset.
At 18in tall, and encased in aluminum and fiberglass, the bomb could deliver a nuclear blast of about 1 kiloton - the equivalent of thousands of tons on TNT.
Highly trained troops from the U.S. Army would hide the atomic bombs at key targets, in the hope that the wave of destruction unleashed would be enough to halt Soviet advances, or make them rethink their plans.
Cont:
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2548830/How-American-troops-planned-stop-Soviet-invasion-nukes-strapped-back.html#ixzz2rw7Nzv7q
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Team Sergeant
01-30-2014, 19:59
Special Atomic Demolition Munition (SADM) only a few references on the entire internet. I guess the story/mission is now out of the bag....;)
Funny that a foreign news media was the first to do the reporting.......
They have displays in a museum somewhere with a vid of an MFF infil with "The Device".
My favorite was the called for sniper over watch after setting the device.
"Green Light" All the Way.
I remember when I was in 10th Grp I was given the book about SGM Joe Garner HALO parachute jump with a W54 Special Atomic Demolition Munition (SADM). Really good book.
http://www.amazon.com/Code-Name-Copperhead-Joe-Garner/dp/0671864351
Monsoon65
01-30-2014, 20:23
I think it was here on PS.com that one of the QPs called the SADM "Dial-a-megaton"?
Team Sergeant
01-30-2014, 20:30
I think it was here on PS.com that one of the QPs called the SADM "Dial-a-megaton"?
I don't think any of the SF guys here had a "megaton" strapped to their ass..... (girlfriends excluded)
mojaveman
01-30-2014, 20:32
My favorite was the called for sniper over watch after setting the device. "Green Light" All the Way.
But that doesn't give the team very much time to get away does it? :rolleyes: :p
DinDinA-2
01-30-2014, 20:43
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/01/29/the_littlest_boy_cold_war_backpack_nuke
Special Atomic Demolition Munition (SADM) only a few references on the entire internet. I guess the story/mission is now out of the bag....;)
Funny that a foreign news media was the first to do the reporting.......
Actually, Time magazine did a story on them in the late '70s or early '80s. I've got a tear sheet about them in my "stack of stuff" in the garage somewhere. We stored them on Oki and SF guys came in a few of times to train on them. There was a larger one, as well, plus COL Jack's favorite weapon the Davy Crockett. My first day with an SC had me guarding an EOD team, in June, practicing defusing a DC warhead. Sweat was streaming out of tubes in the sleeves of their bomb suits. :cool:
Pat
"58 lbs" sure would've been nice...
Richard
We had them (SADMs) on the site I was stationed at in West Germany.
Had guys from 10th group down there quite a bit.
...tactiacl nuke I heard about was the artillary one (cant remember name) but the blast radius was farther then the arty could launch the shell...
The power of myth.
Richard
The Reaper
01-30-2014, 21:03
Dial-A-Yield.
I remember reading about them when I was in high school and that was ummm a few years ago. My favorite tactiacl nuke I heard about was the artillary one (cant remember name) but the blast radius was farther then the arty could launch the shell :eek::eek::eek: Guess that is a one shot deal for that battery.
That was the Davy Crockett. No battery. Looked like a recoilless rifle with a bulbous warhead.
TR
I remember reading about them when I was in high school and that was ummm a few years ago. My favorite tactiacl nuke I heard about was the artillary one (cant remember name) but the blast radius was farther then the arty could launch the shell :eek::eek::eek: Guess that is a one shot deal for that battery.
Are you thinking of "Atomic Annie" ???
Had one of those and her shells on my site as well.
FWIW,
You just knew there would be a movie...;)
SADM Delivery By Parachutist/Swimmer (Special Atomic Demolition Munition)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0lbJGuMj1J4
Thanks, that's the one. What rocket scientist thought that one up.
Oh, I'm sure the same ones who thought up the "Davy Crockett." :munchin
For the SADM, the "device" itself, was no bigger than a coffee can. Weighed a little more than 22 pounds. It was the pack and trigger mechanism that created the bulk and weight of the weapon.
Oh dear.
No Deer ... Hole too high .... Run too fast ...
Sorry, wrong topic. :cool:
Thanks, that's the one. What rocket scientist thought that one up.
The Davy Crockett fired its projectile 3-6 times the minimum up-wind safe distance for the weapons yield.
http://www.brookings.edu/about/projects/archive/nucweapons/davyc
Richard
mark46th
01-30-2014, 21:45
I made a post a couple of years ago about talking to a team leader at a SOAR about this. One of the mods deleted it. Guess I was ahead of my time...
The Reaper
01-30-2014, 21:46
IIRC, the W54 warhead in the M388 round for the Davy Crockett is the same basic warhead as the SADM.
The Davy Crockett came in two versions, one with a max range of 2km and the other flinging the projo 4km. At 150 m., the radiation would deliver 10,000 REM (20 times the lethal dose) and at 600 m., 600 REM.
The DC was fielded in the Heavy Mortar platoon and the 82nd was the last unit to be equipped with them.
TR
For the SADM, the "device" itself, was no bigger than a coffee can. Weighed a little more than 22 pounds. It was the pack and trigger mechanism that created the bulk and weight of the weapon.
You know not of which you speak and your pics are of two variants - the first is the engineer version (an uber-cratering charge) which you describe and the other two are the H-912 container variants (one of but three containers) used to carry the tactical SADM which was larger and much heavier than the 22 lbs you state.
Your first pic is NOT the MANPAD SADM of the article.
You should be quiet now.
Richard
The Focus of the story is on SF but the weapon was (would be used) by conventional Army Engineers. IIRC the MOS was 12E.
It was not to hit "Tanks in the open" but to deny avenues of approach - like bridges (big ones), mountain passes, etc.
There was a big diorama in the Classroom Bldg up at the Engineer Advanced Course in the early 80's that showed it's use on the battlefield. Plus they have the one in the story on display in a museum.
So, while not a Secret but............
Snaquebite
01-31-2014, 08:43
TM LDR: Well, they said the delay was long enough for us to get outta here.
TM SGT: Yea, right.....:munchin
And here's a new article by the authors who were contacting us former Green Light guys awhile back - looks as if a few decided to talk with them including two from my old team and one of our 'assets'. It's a much more accurate view than the DailyMail article.
The Littlest Boy
FP, 2014
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/01/29/the_littlest_boy_cold_war_backpack_nuke?utm_source =Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=%2ASituation+Report&utm_campaign=SITREP+JAN+31+2014
Richard
"There were real issues with the operational wisdom of the program, and those who were to conduct the mission were sure that whomever thought this up was using bad hemp."
x SF med
01-31-2014, 10:28
Interesting article, I will have nightmares for a week, or is that flashbacks? :rolleyes:
Marops/SCUBA Elements of 2/20 were tasked with hand delivering these to port facilities in the Black Sea in the mid-80's. Trapper Frank and Mike E on here may recall a simulated call up (we thought it was real and we were told as much) to implement the plan. When asked about training on the device, we were told we'd get it at Bragg and it was a short learning curve. We asked if ear plugs were necessary in theory or fact.....
FlagDayNCO
01-31-2014, 11:32
Whan I served in Germany, we had several 12E types that were reclassed as 12B. All serving in SL and PSG positions. My post had an ADM Platoon in years previous, but the area and activities were classified.
Within the last year or so, there has been a flood of information coming out. I guess some people want their minute of fame.
http://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?http&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/Engineer/USAREUR_317thEngrBn.htm
There are some interesting pictures of uniform pocket patches on the web site. I can't upload from the work computer.
This page lists many of the Germany based units...
http://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?http&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/Engineer/USAREUR_Engineer.htm
Plenty open source info here, as you read through the pages...
http://www.3ad.com/history/cold.war/nuclear.pages/nuke.vets.htm
In that web site is a mention of one of the nuke training aids being compromised.
As I progressed through rank and obtained a clearance, I became involved in target folders within FRG. The information was interesting, especially when choice of munitions and placement were studied.
The reason the weapons were moved (I will not say removed), was the US developed better and more reliable methods. A pilot from the USAF had a higher probability of completing the mission than a ground pounder, as there were so many ground based opposition scenarios to thwart the success.:D
Stiletto11
01-31-2014, 11:40
SEAL's are using them.:D
Team Sergeant
01-31-2014, 11:44
Whan I served in Germany, we had several 12E types that were reclassed as 12B. All serving in SL and PSG positions. My post had an ADM Platoon in years previous, but the area and activities were classified.
Within the last year or so, there has been a flood of information coming out. I guess some people want their minute of fame.
http://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?http&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/Engineer/USAREUR_317thEngrBn.htm
There are some interesting pictures of uniform pocket patches on the web site. I can't upload from the work computer.
This page lists many of the Germany based units...
http://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?http&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/Engineer/USAREUR_Engineer.htm
Plenty open source info here, as you read through the pages...
http://www.3ad.com/history/cold.war/nuclear.pages/nuke.vets.htm
In that web site is a mention of one of the nuke training aids being compromised.
As I progressed through rank and obtained a clearance, I became involved in target folders within FRG. The information was interesting, especially when choice of munitions and placement were studied.
The reason the weapons were moved (I will not say removed), was the US developed better and more reliable methods. A pilot from the USAF had a higher probability of completing the mission than a ground pounder, as there were so many ground based opposition scenarios to thwart the success.:D
About the time Special Forces ended the SADM program the Tomahawk Cruise Missile made it's debut with a 95% hit rate.
And just like a Special Forces A-Team you will not see the tomahawk cruise missile coming.......
My Dad worked with SADM's in 72 when he was stationed in Germany as a Nuclear Weapons Specialist. That's all I have to contribute, but I am proud of him so I wanted to say he was involved.
Whan I served in Germany, we had several 12E types that were reclassed as 12B. All serving in SL and PSG positions. My post had an ADM Platoon in years previous, but the area and activities were classified.
Within the last year or so, there has been a flood of information coming out. I guess some people want their minute of fame.
http://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?http&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/Engineer/USAREUR_317thEngrBn.htm
There are some interesting pictures of uniform pocket patches on the web site. I can't upload from the work computer.
This page lists many of the Germany based units...
http://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?http&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/Engineer/USAREUR_Engineer.htm
Plenty open source info here, as you read through the pages...
http://www.3ad.com/history/cold.war/nuclear.pages/nuke.vets.htm
In that web site is a mention of one of the nuke training aids being compromised.
As I progressed through rank and obtained a clearance, I became involved in target folders within FRG. The information was interesting, especially when choice of munitions and placement were studied.
The reason the weapons were moved (I will not say removed), was the US developed better and more reliable methods. A pilot from the USAF had a higher probability of completing the mission than a ground pounder, as there were so many ground based opposition scenarios to thwart the success.:D
Great post I enjoyed the links. I am so glad I was never in a bridge company.
BMT (RIP)
01-31-2014, 15:22
Remember Site Yara on Oki?
I use to piss off the NCOIC because he didn't think I took the training serious.
He cornered my ass one day bitchin'!
I told him the whole sequence to set up my half from memory.
Nothing else was ever said. :D
BMT
Utah Bob
01-31-2014, 19:06
I saw nothing. I know nothing. I never used a whiz wheel nor jumped with a heavy thing that wasn't a rucksack.
That's my story and I'm stickin to it.
:munchin
great links and info!!
My first duty station I had a PSG that was one of those 12E changed to 12B. Only talked about it maybe 4 or 5 times.
MK262MOD1
02-01-2014, 00:17
Hmmm