View Full Version : Is a mini ice age on its way .... agian ???
But ... but ... but ... what about global warming ????
I'm all kinda confused now .... :confused:
Is a mini ice age on the way? Scientists warn the Sun has 'gone to sleep' and say it could cause temperatures to plunge
2013 was due to be year of the 'solar maximum'
Researchers say solar activity is at a fraction of what they expect
Conditions 'very similar' a time in 1645 when a mini ice age hit
The Sun's activity is at its lowest for 100 years, scientists have warned.
They say the conditions are eerily similar to those before the Maunder Minimum, a time in 1645 when a mini ice age hit, Freezing London's River Thames.
Researcher believe the solar lull could cause major changes, and say there is a 20% chance it could lead to 'major changes' in temperatures.
'Whatever measure you use, solar peaks are coming down,' Richard Harrison of the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory in Oxfordshire told the BBC.
'I've been a solar physicist for 30 years, and I've never seen anything like this.'
He says the phenomenon could lead to colder winters similar to those during the Maunder Minimum.
'There were cold winters, almost a mini ice age.
'You had a period when the River Thames froze.'
Lucie Green of UCL believes that things could be different this time due to human activity.
'We have 400 years of observations, and it is in a very similar to phase as it was in the runup to the Maunder Minimum.
'The world we live in today is very different, human activity may counteract this - it is difficult to say what the consequences are.'
<snip>
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2541599/Is-mini-ice-age-way-Scientists-warn-Sun-gone-sleep-say-cause-temperatures-plunge.html
GratefulCitizen
01-18-2014, 18:06
Didn't you see "The Day After Tomorrow"?
This is proof of global warming!!
Trapper John
01-18-2014, 18:06
But rest assured someone, somehow will create a political/policy issue out of this. Institutions have always tried to co-opt "scientific" information to fit a particular dogma. The bottom line is we don't know, only capable of drawing correlations that may or may not be predictive. But saying I don't know just doesn't fit the agenda.
Let's just cherry pick that which does fit and run with it! :eek:
Global warming or mini ice age, I wish the experts would make up their collective minds. Didn't we go through a global cooling period back in the 80's ?
The big question is, if Global Warming was such a big threat, why haven't the Left taken credit for "solving" it?
From Thomas Sowell’s The vision of the Anointed:
STAGE 1. THE “CRISIS”: Some situation exists, whose negative aspects the anointed propose to eliminate. Such a situation is routinely characterized as a “crisis,” even though all human situations have negative aspects, and even though evidence is seldom asked or given to show how the situation at hand is either uniquely bad or threatening to get worse. Sometimes the situation described as a “crisis” has in fact already been getting better for years.
STAGE 2. THE “SULUTION”: Policies to end the “crisis” are advocated by the anointed, who say that these policies will lead to beneficial result A. Critics say that these policies will lead to detrimental result Z. The anointed dismiss these latter claims as absurd and “simplistic,” if not dishonest.
STAGE 3. THE RESULTS: The policies are instituted and lead to detrimental result Z.
STAGE 4. THE RESPONSE: Those who attribute detrimental result Z to the policies instituted are dismissed as “simplistic” for ignoring the “complexities” involved, as “many factors” went into determining the outcome. The burden of proof is put on the critics to demonstrate to a certainty that these policies alone were the only possible cause of the worsening that occurred. No burden of proof whatever is put on those who had so confidently predicted improvement. Indeed, it’s is often asserted that things would have been even worse, were it not for the wonderful programs that mitigated the inevitable damage from other factors. (Page 8 “Patterns of Failure”)
They need to keep the crisis going to scare the sheep...and to fleece them.
Pat
Golf1echo
01-18-2014, 19:06
More out of curiosity that I post this, Icelandic History makes mention of the Northern Fjords freezing solid which was devastating to the populous and commerce at the time, The mechanism had to do with fresh water from glacier melt which by nature became the greater composition of the surface water enabling the freeze...as salt water resists freezing. For years I have tried to have a conversation about this and only get shoulder shrugs :confused: My take away is that perhaps this was more localized due to volcanic eruptions? Also it seems the Earths ecosystems and biospheres may be capable of more than we understand. I have no doubt that human critters are capable of doing negative things to the environment but I question the political filter we get facts from. I am indeed curious, and would be comfortable with greater powers at work capable of cleansing the negative...
Didn't you see "The Day After Tomorrow"?
This is proof of global warming!!
Tomorrow is Sunday - proof of global warming!
Trapper John
01-18-2014, 21:18
Global warming or mini ice age, I wish the experts would make up their collective minds. Didn't we go through a global cooling period back in the 80's ?
I think that was the result of a second Krakatoa eruption. The cooling lasted for 1-2 years. the current cooling may the result of a natural cooling/heating cycle. To attribute this to human activity without clear, irrefutable evidence to simply promote a particular political agenda is also normal human behavior, but it still pisses me off! But as Richard says, and so it goes :munchin
TOMAHAWK9521
01-19-2014, 00:43
You all forget that it isn't "Global Warming" anymore. Those commie pricks changed the buzz phrase to "Climate Change". That allows them to identify and label any change in the temperature, rain/snow fall, shade of the groundhog's shadow, etc, as a man-made crisis that needs fixin'. :rolleyes:
More out of curiosity that I post this, Icelandic History makes mention of the Northern Fjords freezing solid which was devastating to the populous and commerce at the time, The mechanism had to do with fresh water from glacier melt which by nature became the greater composition of the surface water enabling the freeze...as salt water resists freezing....
Oceans freeze - that's a fact. Salt water resists freezing - that's also a fact.
The argument is over "why" in some places.
Look at a globe - not a flat map - of the world. Spin it so you can see North America, Greenland, Iceland and Europe and their relationships. Little different in both size and relationship from a flat map.
The Vikings (Icelandic peoples) had thriving farming communities on Greenland in the 11th and 12th centuries. The written records for the next 150 years talk of a gradual hardening of weather conditions with it becoming too cold for farming and the communities slowly died out.
That's why I say "Global warming? Let me know when the Vikings start farming Greenland again."
But let's look at the Arctic area in the North Atlantic. The basic operation in cold water comes down on the left past Greenland goes south, is warmed and then returns northeast to Europe keeping their weather milder than similar latitudes in North America.
The "more fresh water so it froze" story fits real nice into these conditions. The "we're killing the planet folks" will say because of AGW there is more fresh water in the oceans so it freezes easier. But they count the effects of global warming in the lack of ice in the summer. They complain that single year ice is thinner and is easier to melt.
That's why the whole thing of AGW is a pile of dog crap.
Does climate change? Of course it does. Just looking at the written records it appears Europe's long term climate has varied by a few degrees over the last 2,500 years. It appears to have been in warming & cooling cycles that lasted four to five hundred years.
The scientists talking about this new cooling period are saying it will take 40 years to see if it's happening.
A lot of us will be dead by then. The younger crowd here will be Old Farts and posting on message boards about when they were young and "The talk was all about Global Warming".
Golf1echo
01-19-2014, 09:32
Appreciated the post as I am away from my books and it pushed me to do some searching. Here is a good link about exactly what you described:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greenland
Speaking of maps the link includes some of my favorite ones depicting the relationship between Iceland, Greenland, and North America. Visually you can see that the Norse obviously explored those coasts. As a matter of fact Christopher Columbus knew right where he was headed as when he was a young seaman he was told of North America in the port at Reykjavik by the mariners there.
Some of my favorite books are the Icelandic Sagas, some of which are mentioned in the link ie. Erik the Red... The one about Leaf ( Erik's son [ Leaf Erikson ])who is credited as the first Western European to establish a presence on North America is not mentioned ( Vinland Sagas ), it is a tale of intrigue and guile about visits to Leaf's time share ;) The Sagas are a wonderful read on a cold Winters Night.
As you say the currents of the Northern Hemisphere are not what they might appear to be: Reykjavik's average winter temperatures are warmer than New York City...that does change as you move either North or into the interior.
Oceans freeze - that's a fact. Salt water resists freezing - that's also a fact.
The argument is over "why" in some places.
Look at a globe - not a flat map - of the world. Spin it so you can see North America, Greenland, Iceland and Europe and their relationships. Little different in both size and relationship from a flat map.
The Vikings (Icelandic peoples) had thriving farming communities on Greenland in the 11th and 12th centuries. The written records for the next 150 years talk of a gradual hardening of weather conditions with it becoming too cold for farming and the communities slowly died out.
That's why I say "Global warming? Let me know when the Vikings start farming Greenland again."
But let's look at the Arctic area in the North Atlantic. The basic operation in cold water comes down on the left past Greenland goes south, is warmed and then returns northeast to Europe keeping their weather milder than similar latitudes in North America.
The "more fresh water so it froze" story fits real nice into these conditions. The "we're killing the planet folks" will say because of AGW there is more fresh water in the oceans so it freezes easier. But they count the effects of global warming in the lack of ice in the summer. They complain that single year ice is thinner and is easier to melt.
That's why the whole thing of AGW is a pile of dog crap.
Does climate change? Of course it does. Just looking at the written records it appears Europe's long term climate has varied by a few degrees over the last 2,500 years. It appears to have been in warming & cooling cycles that lasted four to five hundred years.
The scientists talking about this new cooling period are saying it will take 40 years to see if it's happening.
A lot of us will be dead by then. The younger crowd here will be Old Farts and posting on message boards about when they were young and "The talk was all about Global Warming".
rubberneck
01-19-2014, 20:14
I knew the fix was in when "scientists" said that the issue of global warming had been settled for good, and there was no room for debate. That isn't how the scientific method works. I give the greens credit for slickly transitioning from global warming to global climate change so cleanly that you wouldn't have noticed if you were paying attention.
The earth is 4.54 billion years old but antarctic ice cores give us global temperature data that go back 800,000 years. Thats like observing that because the temperature changed .00001 degree in the last 15 seconds of the day and it was caused by people sleeping. What happened to temperatures the first 86385 scones of the day is irrelevant. The reality is that we have no clue if this current cycle of warming and/or cooling is unusual over the lifetime of the planet let alone can we be certain that it caused entirely by man. It's just possible that in the 4.54 billion year cycle of the planet change like this happens like clockwork every million years.