View Full Version : Legalizing pot makes Mexican Cartels even more dangerous.
mojaveman
01-08-2014, 15:49
The growing movement to legalize marajuana is radically altering the way Mexican drug cartels do business, forcing them to seek other revenue streams through increased illegal activity.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/legalizing-pot-makes-mexican-cartels-182600895.html
Sounds like they're being victimized.
Oldrotorhead
01-08-2014, 17:57
Maybe they will start a price war with the "legal" dealers. I can see the stoners broken down on the interstates on their way to CO already and with the Cartels changing their business model that State may become very interesting.:munchin
Meanwhile in Colorado...
Richard
The Reaper
01-08-2014, 19:02
Like I said, second and third order effects.
TR
Like I said, second and third order effects.
TR
TR Sir,
A quick question, as I saw on the News about a drug dealer who tortured alive an informant, and kept him alive while drilling holes in his head, just for the sheer fact that the drug dealer wanted him to suffer.
Where do we as a Nation with able bodied soldiers, put up the line, and go after these satans roaming the earth?:(:munchin
Holly
Streck-Fu
01-08-2014, 20:52
Evil men will do evil things. I am of the belief that, like alcohol prohibition, eliminating MJ prohibition will be far better for our society.
monsterhunter
01-09-2014, 03:35
I've been split on how this should be handled for some time. But as to why soldiers aren't involved on Unitied States soil, take a look at this site: http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm
I've been split on how this should be handled for some time. But as to why soldiers aren't involved on Unitied States soil, take a look at this site: http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm
Obama has set a precedent of selectively enforcing federal laws. What makes you think he wouldn't apply it to posse comitatus? Who's gonna stop him? Boner?
monsterhunter
01-09-2014, 06:52
Obama has set a precedent of selectively enforcing federal laws. What makes you think he wouldn't apply it to posse comitatus? Who's gonna stop him? Boner?
I wouldn't put it past him at all. He doesn't seem to give a rat's ass about the Constitution. This is just another piece of paper to him.
miclo18d
01-09-2014, 18:53
I've been split on how this should be handled for some time. But as to why soldiers aren't involved on Unitied States soil, take a look at this site: http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm
Actually I've been involved on JTF-6 missions.
Posse Comitatus is very strict in what soldiers can and can't do. We could not collect on US citizens. We could only collect info on confirmed people crossing the US border. We had to call in what we saw and allow law enforcement agencies make arrests.
But bottom line, US military can do policing... It's just not direct involvement.
Just FYI, we busted (observed and called the LEA) an 800 lb pot shipment during one of our missions in Nogalas, AZ in 1996.
Evil men will do evil things. I am of the belief that, like alcohol prohibition, eliminating MJ prohibition will be far better for our society.
I would also agree with decriminalisation and legalization as long as the issue of MJ impairment measurement is addressed.
But I think many people will be shocked to learn that Cartels will simply develop new revenue streams as they are not drug cartels, they are criminal networks that just happen to derive some of their income from illegal drugs.
Reefer's the main reason the Country's so screwed-up.
How many Conservative hippies do you know?
Flower Children became university professors and indoctrinated mush-brained potsmokers into the marxist ideology of the left, then they raised their kids to be lazy, sissified idiots who want everything handed to them on a silver platter (without working for it) and are sickeningly tolerant of each and every blasphemous trait known to man-not the least of which is the election and re-election of a communist to the White House.
Streck-Fu
01-10-2014, 07:03
We've fought the War on Drugs for 40 years and spent Trillions of dollars and are now militarizing the police in the name of this 'war'.... Yet, MJ, and all other drugs, is just as cheap and easy to get (if not easier) than 40 years ago. In most American towns, it is easier for high school kids to get weed than beer.....Yet, actual usage of drugs is not much higher than the 70s (yes usage spiked and dropped over the years).
As far as a government enterprise, huge budgetary expense, and waste of law enforcement time, is it worth continuing?
Decriminalize it. Treat it like alcohol. Anything would be better. It would still be illegal to operate a car and businesses could still hire and fire based on drug tests.
How many more years, how much more money, and how much more of an escalating enforcement policy are we willing to accept?
Decriminalize it. Treat it like alcohol. Anything would be better. It would still be illegal to operate a car and businesses could still hire and fire based on drug tests.
Ironically, I agree. Similar to illegal immigration-the water's under the bridge; seal the border and free the ones who are here (you'll be surprised how many go right back down south.)
Release the guys in jail for pot, legalize it and tax the crap out of it, because they're gonna get it, anyway.
Most crime has some association with drugs, and a lot of naive people grow and sell from their houses. I don't feel bad for these victims, who get their doors kicked in by criminals, because they're taking a risk under our current system. Even customers of dispensaries are targeted. License plates written down, addresses gathered, all kinds of bad things related to the procurement of marijuana.
If it was regulated, taxed, and the people still had the power to grow their own, I'd be for it. It'd lessen the risk from the grower, drive prices down even more, and law enforcement could focus on crime related to drugs like meth/heroin/PCP etc..
How many Conservative hippies do you know?
I am :munchin but I'll admit I am a minority.
mojaveman
01-10-2014, 11:29
Release the guys in jail for pot, legalize it and tax the crap out of it, because they're gonna get it, anyway.
Not a drug user here but agree somewhat.
We spend billions on the war on drugs but intercept only a small percentage of what makes it through our borders. Millions could be saved by releasing misdemeanor and minor felony offenders from jails and prisons. Mostly, put a heavy tax on consumption and watch the coffers fill.
Streck-Fu
01-10-2014, 11:47
The idea of decriminalizing drug use is not new and on a small scale, the effects can be observed in Portugal: LINK (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-decriminalization-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060.html).....LINK (http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/drug-decriminalization-portugal-lessons-creating-fair-successful-drug-policies)....LINK (http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/07/05/ten-years-after-decriminalization-drug-abuse-down-by-half-in-portugal/)
While we don't need to necessarily treat it as a medical issue and provide treatment, there is no real evidence that it will become a long term drug use frenzy. After the initial spike in use after the prohibition ends, usage trends will return to about where there are.
Yip. Pot heads are going to be pot heads if it is legal or not. The repercussions for a user in most of the country is so small now it is not worth the court cost. The money saved on enforcement alone would save billions every year.
Police agency's get a lot of funding for Marijuana interdiction. They don't want that money to go away. Prison unions are against legalization because the more people they lock in cages, the more funding they get. Especially private prisons.
I heard Fox News ranting about how kids are going to start smoking. Seems it will be harder for kids to get their hands on it. Like beer people aren't to comfortable buying it for kids. Chances are if the kid gets caught he will be pressured into telling where he got it.
State and federal governments have made pariahs out of cigarette smokers yet many of them want to legalize pot usage. Is one bad habit better than the other one? Smoking pot is somehow noble? FWIW I am an ex Marlboro man, quit 3 years ago. My worthless used up brothers started out as potheads, we are all paying for their indiscretions.
DJ Urbanovsky
01-11-2014, 12:43
Here's an idea: Instead of saying that we shouldn't legalize it because doing so makes drug cartels more violent, how about we just wipe out the friggin' cartels once and for all, yeah?
twistedsquid
01-11-2014, 18:37
In 5 years "We the People" will be buying their pot for them. Watch.
Contrary to popular belief prisons are not funded per inmate, but instead they have a limited budget. Also people no longer go to prison for having a couple of oz of pot. A small MINORITY of people CONVICTED of a felony even go to prison. In the state of Oregon 25% of convicted felons actually go to state prison. Legalizing pot and letting out the "users" would not cost one corrections officer their job. I keep hearing people talk about how users are sent to prison just because they are a pot head, it is 100% bullshit. They lie. What does MOST of the time is some violent as hell gang banger plea bargains to lesser charges. The courts are so backed up they cut deals on charges most of the time because the courts do not have the time or money to take everyone to trial. Both sides look at it as a win win. The DA gets a conviction on their check box and the defense atty gets a lot less time for the defendant. In the mean time the prisons are overflowing and scum bags are getting out in a few years when they never should and victimizing more people.
The private prisons are directly funded by how many people they lock up. Their contracts with the state and feds are based on how many people they can hold.
The state/federal prisons budget are based on exactly the work load they are taking on. A prison with 3000 inmates doesn't have same budget as a prison with 300. They are starting to decriminalize it in most places. But I believe an oz will still get you locked away. The biggest losers are the police. I was a Fed. There are millions in grants and federal funding that police agency's are given to fight Marijuana. Like the pot sniffer below:D
LMAO. That is funny. Is that real or BS piece of gear? You can smell a large grow from a long way away just with you nose.
Private prisons are a real bad idea IMHO for many reasons. While I believe the govt should stay out of many areas IMHO running a prison is something the govt should be doing. Idaho has some issues with their system because of it.
And all those young kids thrown in jail(juvenile detention) because of that judge/private prison kickback problem.
LMAO. That is funny. Is that real or BS piece of gear? You can smell a large grow from a long way away just with you nose.
Private prisons are a real bad idea IMHO for many reasons. While I believe the govt should stay out of many areas IMHO running a prison is something the govt should be doing. Idaho has some issues with their system because of it.
It's real. They can stand outside your house, smell pot, kick your door in, or knock. Then arrest you. Shits ridiculous.
But that's the type of things money is spent on fighting pot users. Like the million dollar aircraft they fly around looking for people growing a weed in their back yard.
It reminds me of the $200,000 tricked out police SUV sitting on the side of the road catching motorist on their way to work. Almost like they are to scared to go after the real bad guys.
It's real. They can stand outside your house, smell pot, kick your door in, or knock. Then arrest you. Shits ridiculous.
But that's the type of things money is spent on fighting pot users. Like the million dollar aircraft they fly around looking for people growing a weed in their back yard.
It reminds me of the $200,000 tricked out police SUV sitting on the side of the road catching motorist on their way to work. Almost like they are to scared to go after the real bad guys.
It's about generating revenue and picking the targets that are more apt to pay out with the least amount of work.
We've fought the War on Drugs for 40 years and spent Trillions of dollars and are now militarizing the police in the name of this 'war'.... Yet, MJ, and all other drugs, is just as cheap and easy to get (if not easier) than 40 years ago. In most American towns, it is easier for high school kids to get weed than beer.....Yet, actual usage of drugs is not much higher than the 70s (yes usage spiked and dropped over the years).
As far as a government enterprise, huge budgetary expense, and waste of law enforcement time, is it worth continuing?
Decriminalize it. Treat it like alcohol. Anything would be better. It would still be illegal to operate a car and businesses could still hire and fire based on drug tests.
How many more years, how much more money, and how much more of an escalating enforcement policy are we willing to accept?
But if you did that it would shut down an entire industry that is based on the war on drugs. Fish & Game would no longer need helicopters and M4's to hunt down rouge pot growers and that in turn would hurt investors.
Starting around 2008-09 there was a surge in personal enterprise in California. A lot of medical users were growing and selling, which was important to their livelihood because of the recession. Some entrepreneurs made millions by growing for other 'patients' and selling their 'excess' to dispensaries, before prices of marijuana were cut in half because of the supply. Others grew out of necessity because they'd lost their job, and were facing foreclosure. Obama said that he'd keep the Feds off our backs, but the DEA recently closed the operations of over 500 California dispensaries and jailed its owners. Just like moonshining; if the federal government doesn't get its cut, they're going to drop the hammer. Another thing to consider, is the impact personal cultivation of marijuana has on pharmaceuticals, which has huge influence in DC.
To add to your point about state law enforcement, and their virtuous pursuit against the horrors of marijuanas cultivation and use, this says it all.
"The last thing we need is yet another mind-altering substance to be legalized," says John Lovell, lobbyist for the California Peace Officers' Association.
Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy? (http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1884956,00.html)
Golf1echo
01-12-2014, 11:10
You think Marijuana was a crime, look at how not paying tax is a crime. Look at the enforcement of revenue crimes and the extent they resource investigations, get prosecutions, and lock up violators . The libs in Colorado have no idea of what they have done to themselves, the prices are already going sky high and will probably out pace the prices paid on the black market. Watching the news every night I see many of the so called activists were "Veterans with PTSD", that will have it's own ramifications. It may be legal in Colo. and Wa. but it is still a Federal crime currently, read between those lines. It's a brave new world...
You think Marijuana was a crime, look at how not paying tax is a crime. Look at the enforcement of revenue crimes and the extent they resource investigations, get prosecutions, and lock up violators . The libs in Colorado have no idea of what they have done to themselves, the prices are already going sky high and will probably out pace the prices paid on the black market. Watching the news every night I see many of the so called activists were "Veterans with PTSD", that will have it's own ramifications. It may be legal in Colo. and Wa. but it is still a Federal crime currently, read between those lines. It's a brave new world...
Only if the Feds choose to enforce it, maybe the EPA will weigh in on this.
Golf1echo
01-12-2014, 11:39
Not particularly concerned about if they enforce marijuana usage, I am trying to convey broader ramifications some that have nothing to do with some hippy smoking dope...
Edit: To be more specific I am referring to things like Veterans status re. PTSD, 2nd Amendment Rights, other Rights, etc... Here is an example I see on the News here in Colorado: If you are stopped and suspected of driving under the influence you must go to a Medical facility and have your blood drawn, if you refuse Paramedics will be called to come and collect a sample, if you refuse that I take it you would be arrested and lose your licence. That would apply to someone who is not under the influence and is fundamentally against having blood drawn.
Only if the Feds choose to enforce it, maybe the EPA will weigh in on this.
Pharmaceutical companies lobby all the time to keep MJ a class one drug (AKA no medical benefits) What would they do without the money 60 million Ambien prescriptions generate. Pharma corporations are always in the top 5 when it comes to presidential donations.
GratefulCitizen
01-12-2014, 14:24
The marriage of semi-legal pot and digital crypto currency is coming.
The federal government will not be happy.
Fallout from the ensuing response will affect everyone.
Second and third order effects...
Golf1echo
01-12-2014, 15:44
The marriage of semi-legal pot and digital crypto currency is coming.
The federal government will not be happy.
Fallout from the ensuing response will affect everyone.
Second and third order effects...
Here is something else, and you know all about the technology of tracking in your business, they show the grow rooms where these plants are being grown. The plants are tagged from the inception of the seed germinating or clones being produced and are tracked through the entire process from beginning to point of sale and onward until every last penny of tax...and penalties ( inevitably coming into play,as when there is a question on something it will be on the grower/ business until they can prove otherwise) are paid. In Colo. I am hearing these taxes will generate 60 million extra dollars in tax revenues which opens up it's own issues. How long will it be before that technology is applied to all manufacturing and other economic matters? How much will that add to the cost of goods and services? The companies that develop these tracking products will be lobbying hard for expanded opportunities.
Whatever happened to K.I.S.S.?
GratefulCitizen
01-12-2014, 19:21
Here is something else, and you know all about the technology of tracking in your business, they show the grow rooms where these plants are being grown. The plants are tagged from the inception of the seed germinating or clones being produced and are tracked through the entire process from beginning to point of sale and onward until every last penny of tax...and penalties ( inevitably coming into play,as when there is a question on something it will be on the grower/ business until they can prove otherwise) are paid. In Colo. I am hearing these taxes will generate 60 million extra dollars in tax revenues which opens up it's own issues. How long will it be before that technology is applied to all manufacturing and other economic matters? How much will that add to the cost of goods and services? The companies that develop these tracking products will be lobbying hard for expanded opportunities.
Whatever happened to K.I.S.S.?
There is a very simple solution.
Require a license (tax) for a person to engage in commerce...at all.
Of course there would need to be a way to distinguish those who may engage in commerce from those may not.
Perhaps a mark of some sort...