Log in

View Full Version : Immigration


Roguish Lawyer
11-24-2004, 11:37
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005937

Give Thanks for Immigrants
And for a president who understands their importance to America.

BY RUPERT MURDOCH
Wednesday, November 24, 2004 12:01 a.m. EST

When B.C. Forbes sailed for America from Scotland in 1904, he was following a course well worn by generations of Scots.

I know how the founder of Forbes magazine must have felt. The Murdochs originally hail from the same part of Scotland. Today, we are part of the most recent wave of immigrants attracted by the bright beacon of American liberty.

These days, it's not always easy to talk about the benefits of immigration. Especially since 9/11, many Americans worry about borders and security. These are legitimate concerns. But surely a nation as great as America has the wit and resources to distinguish between those who come here to destroy the American Dream--and the many millions more who come to live it.

The evidence of the contributions these immigrants make to our society is all around us--especially in the critical area of education. Adam Smith (another Scotsman) knew that without a decent system of education, a modern capitalist society was committing suicide. Well, our modern public school systems simply are not producing the talent the American economy needs to compete in the future. And it often seems that it is our immigrants who are holding the whole thing up.

In a study on high school students released this past summer, the National Foundation for American Policy found 60% of the top science students, and 65% of the top math students, are children of immigrants. The same study found that seven of the top award winners at the 2004 Intel Science Talent Search were immigrants or children of immigrants. This correlates with other findings that more than half of engineers--and 45% of math and computer scientists--with Ph.D.s now working in the U.S. are foreign born.

It's not just the statistics. You see it at our most elite college and university campuses, where Asian immigrants or their children are disproportionately represented. And a recent study of 28 prestigious American universities by researchers from Princeton and the University of Pennsylvania found something startling: that 41% of the black students attending these schools described themselves as either immigrants or children of immigrants.

The point is that by almost any measure of educational excellence you choose, if you're in America you're going to find immigrants or their children at the top. I don't just mean engineers and scientists and technicians. In my book, anyone who comes here and gives an honest day's work for an honest day's pay is not only putting himself closer to the American Dream, he's helping the rest of us get there too.


As Ronald Reagan said at the Statue of Liberty, "While we applaud those immigrants who stand out, whose contributions are easily discerned, we know that America's heroes are also those whose names are remembered by only a few."

Let me share some of these names with you.

Start with Eddie Chin, an ethnic Chinese Marine who was born a week after his family fled Burma. You've all seen Cpl. Chin. Because when Baghdad fell, he was the Marine we all watched shimmy up the statue of Saddam Hussein to attach the cable that would pull it down.

Or Lance Cpl. Ahmad Ibrahim. His family came to the U.S. from Syria when the first Gulf War broke out. Now Cpl. Ibrahim hopes to be deployed to Iraq--also as a Marine--to put his Arabic language skills in the service of Corps and Country.

Or what about Cpl. José Gutierrez, who was raised in Guatemala and came to America as a boy--illegally! Cpl. Gutierrez was one of the first Marines killed in action in Iraq. As his family told reporters, this young immigrant enlisted with the Marine Corps because he wanted to "give back" to America.

So here we have it--Asian Marines, Arab Marines, Latino Marines--all united in the mission of protecting the rest of us. Isn't this what Reagan meant when he said that the bond that ties our immigrants together--what makes us a nation instead of a collection of individuals--is "an abiding love of liberty"? So the next time you hear people whinging about what a "drain" on America our immigrants are, it might be worth asking if they consider these Marines a drain.

Maybe this is more clear to businessmen because of what we see every day. My company, News Corporation, is a multinational company based in America. Our diversity is based on talent, cooperation and ability.

Frankly it doesn't bother me in the least that millions of people are attracted to our shores. What we should worry about is the day they no longer find these shores attractive. In an era when too many of our pundits declare that the American Dream is a fraud, it is America's immigrants who remind us--by dint of their success--that the Dream is alive, and well within reach of anyone willing to work for it.


We are fortunate to have a president who understands that. Only a few days ago, the White House indicated that it intended to revive an immigration reform which the president had first offered before 9/11 and tried to revive back in January.
Politically speaking, a guest-worker plan is no easy thing. But as President Bush realizes, we'll never fix the problem of illegal immigration simply by throwing up walls and trying to make all of us police them. We've tried that for a decade or so now, and it's been a flop. What we need to do first is to make it easier for those who seek honest work to do so without having to disobey our laws. Fundamentally that means recognizing that an economy as powerful as ours is always going to have a demand for more workers.

Such a policy would benefit us all:

• It would help those who want nothing more than to work legally move out of the shadows.

• It would help our security forces stop wasting resources now spent on hunting down Mexican waitresses and start devoting them to tracking the terrorists who really threaten us.

• It would help the economy by providing America with the labor and talent it needs.

Given the tremendous pressures on President Bush and the considerable opposition from within his own ranks, the politically expedient thing for him to do would be to drop it. But he hasn't, and I for one am encouraged by his refusal to give in.

The immigrant editor B.C. Forbes spent much of the 20th century championing the glories of American opportunity. We who have arrived more recently likewise will never forget our debt we owe to this land--and the obligation to keep that same opportunity alive in the 21st.

Mr. Murdoch is chairman and chief executive of News Corporation. This is adapted from a speech he gave last Thursday, in acceptance of the 2004 B.C. Forbes Award.

:munchin

Jack Moroney (RIP)
11-24-2004, 11:48
How about "Give thanks for LEGAL immigrants!"

Jack Moroney

ghuinness
11-24-2004, 17:48
When B.C. Forbes sailed for America from Scotland in 1904, he was following a course well worn by generations of Scots.

I know how the founder of Forbes magazine must have felt. The Murdochs originally hail from the same part of Scotland. Today, we are part of the most recent wave of immigrants attracted by the bright beacon of American liberty.
Legal immigration example; Believe port of entry was Ellis Island NY.


The evidence of the contributions these immigrants make to our society is all around us--especially in the critical area of education. Adam Smith (another Scotsman) knew that without a decent system of education, a modern capitalist society was committing suicide. Well, our modern public school systems simply are not producing the talent the American economy needs to compete in the future. And it often seems that it is our immigrants who are holding the whole thing up.
How does a broken education system justify illegal immigration?


This correlates with other findings that more than half of engineers--and 45% of math and computer scientists--with Ph.D.s now working in the U.S. are foreign born.
Legal Immigration example.


Start with Eddie Chin, an ethnic Chinese Marine who was born a week after his family fled Burma. You've all seen Cpl. Chin. Because when Baghdad fell, he was the Marine we all watched shimmy up the statue of Saddam Hussein to attach the cable that would pull it down.

I would bet he came here as a refugee, which is legal.


Or Lance Cpl. Ahmad Ibrahim. His family came to the U.S. from Syria when the first Gulf War broke out. Now Cpl. Ibrahim hopes to be deployed to Iraq--also as a Marine--to put his Arabic language skills in the service of Corps and Country.

Special Visa for skills not available in the USA. That is legal. I would guess it was an L-1


Or what about Cpl. José Gutierrez, who was raised in Guatemala and came to America as a boy--illegally! Cpl. Gutierrez was one of the first Marines killed in action in Iraq. As his family told reporters, this young immigrant enlisted with the Marine Corps because he wanted to "give back" to America.

Not to detract from the sacrifice, but I have no idea how he legally obtained a Green Card for enlistment.


So the next time you hear people whinging about what a "drain" on America our immigrants are, it might be worth asking if they consider these Marines a drain.

The drain is illegal immigration. With one exception, this article uses legal immigration to substantiate illegals.


• It would help those who want nothing more than to work legally move out of the shadows.

Reward those that enter illegally and deport those who cannot transfer a visa. Visa's require a sponsor. Those that wish to hire illegal immigrants do so to remove the overhead of medical coverage and taxes. They have no desire to sponsor legal immigrants, it's too expensive.


Given the tremendous pressures on President Bush and the considerable opposition from within his own ranks, the politically expedient thing for him to do would be to drop it. But he hasn't, and I for one am encouraged by his refusal to give in.

I vehemently oppose this proposal.

brownapple
11-24-2004, 18:41
My maternal Grandfather came to the United States illegally. He didn't want to, but he was denied the right to emigrate from Ireland in the "teens". He was told that the United States had enough Irish (he had the letter from Immigration to his dying day, my Uncle showed it to me years ago). So, he immigrated to Nova Scotia and made his way to New York City illegally by crossing in from Canada.

He worked hard everyday of his life until cancer took him away. He raised 3 sons and 2 daughters (one of which is my mother). His three sons all served in the US Navy, two during WWII (my Uncle Bill was a carpenter aboard the USS Enterprise, and my Uncle Fred worked for the Navy developing aerial reconnaissance photography equipment and films) and the third was a career Naval Aviator who died of cancer three days after completing 20 years of service.

I support the proposal.

Martin
11-25-2004, 02:55
Greenhat: I don't think this proposal would allow anyone to serve in the US Armed Forces. You need an I-551 for that (greencard).

On the other hand, it ease the start of the process.

I think the reason that so many immigrants or their descendants are overrepresentated is that most immigration visas go to those with high education or are in a competitive work position.

If some fool would want to earn the right to immigrate, say by serving in said Armed Forces, the outlook is not equally good.

Martin (fool)

Martin
11-25-2004, 05:46
Or Lance Cpl. Ahmad Ibrahim. His family came to the U.S. from Syria when the first Gulf War broke out. Now Cpl. Ibrahim hopes to be deployed to Iraq--also as a Marine--to put his Arabic language skills in the service of Corps and Country.Special Visa for skills not available in the USA. That is legal. I would guess it was an L-1

Minor note, not to pick on you:
It's possible that it was an L-1 non-immigrant visa.

However, since he's in the Marines he could also have applied for the I-551 under EB-3, third priority employment based immigration as a skilled worker - for his language skills.

brownapple
11-25-2004, 08:24
Greenhat: I don't think this proposal would allow anyone to serve in the US Armed Forces. You need an I-551 for that (greencard).


My Grandfather didn't serve in the US Armed Forces. His children and grandchildren did. As a matter of fact, the children he raised have done more for the United States via their service than have many of the children of those descended from the Mayflower.

Martin
11-25-2004, 09:07
My Grandfather didn't serve in the US Armed Forces. His children and grandchildren did. As a matter of fact, the children he raised have done more for the United States via their service than have many of the children of those descended from the Mayflower.

I see your point.

ghuinness
11-27-2004, 10:04
Greenhat

You support the Bush Proposal (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/01/20040107-1.html), I don't. If you will permit me, I have a few questions for you.

A few current statistics from: http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistics/

1) Current estimates from the 2000 Census: Greater than 8.7 million illegal immigrants currently reside in the USA.
2) Since 1990 about 1 Million Legal aliens have been admitted/yr.
3) Since 1990, the resident illegal alien population grows on average 500,000 per year.
4) 3.5 million are currently on the waiting list to enter the USA legally.
5) Percentage of illegal aliens originally admitted as Tourists, Students, Temporary Workers and then remained here illegally – 40%

In 1986, the immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 was signed into law. This legislation represented a new approach to control immigration, particularly illegal immigration. To deter illegal migration, the act authorized an increase in border enforcement and made it illegal for an employer to knowingly hire an alien who does not have permission to work in this country. These enforcement measures were balanced with programs that legalised the status of illegal aliens who entered this country prior to Jan 1, 1982, or who worked as agricultural laborers for at least 90 days in specific perishable commodities during May 1985 through May 1986 period.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/repsstudies/addition.html

edited to add:
In 1986 the Immigration Reform and Control act changed the status of nearly 2.7 million unauthorized residents. They were given temporary lawful residence in 1987/1988. In 1989-92 most were granted lawful permanent residence.
end edit

Items from the Bush plan:

Serve America's Economy by Matching a Willing Worker with a Willing Employer

What is the definition of a “Willing Employer”? Didn't the 1986 act address this same group of employers?
Why will the companies which currently violate immigration law agree to this proposal and agree to pay additional taxes and fees?

Providing Incentives for Return to Home Country

The number of illegal immigrants in this country is a combination of those that enter illegally and those that do not leave when their Visa’s expire. What possible incentive could be defined for this guest-visa to work? Given that 40% of those that enter legally overstay their visa, please explain to me how this proposal is an improvement? How is this different than the laws enacted with IRCA?

Workplace Enforcement of Immigration Laws:

I thought this was an interesting statistic on deportals:

http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistics/msrsep04/REMOVAL.HTM

1 million per year enter legally. 40% expire and stay illegally. We deported 190K in 2003. This proposal will add anywhere from 4 to 8 million under the guest worker visa.


American Workers Come First

Here is a link about current employment sponsored Visa’s.
In 2000, fewer than two percent of annual immigrant admissions were employment-based principals in high-tech professions.
So, what is this proposal going to do? Add more restrictions? Maybe you think that is a good idea.

http://www.fairus.org/Research/Research.cfm?ID=1135&c=2

Thank You

brownapple
11-27-2004, 20:38
Ghuinness,

The United States is a nation of immigrants. Legal and illegal. Our current legal immigration policy is (as it has been for most of our history) discriminatory. Anyone who has dealt with immigration should be aware of that.

I happen to believe that the inscription on the Statue of Liberty is one of the things that made the United States a great nation.

There would be a whole lot less issue with "illegal immigrants" if we would eliminate the welfare state and return to individuals being responsible for themselves.

As to "willing employer"s. My Uncle is a contractor. He is a willing employer. Always short employees, but unable to hire illegals under the current system (because he won't break the law).

ghuinness
11-27-2004, 21:00
There would be a whole lot less issue with "illegal immigrants" if we would eliminate the welfare state and return to individuals being responsible for themselves.
.
On that part I agree.

Thanks for the answer, but I was hoping for some opinion on the execution of this proposal. The prior Immigration Act is, IMHO, a dismal failure. I see no changes in this proposal, simply a rehash of everything that has already been tried.