PDA

View Full Version : "ADHD is a ficticous disease"


Snaquebite
12-13-2013, 12:31
I suspected this a while back and argued with several counselors and psychiatrists dealing with a step-daughter.

Story is from March 2013

http://www.worldpublicunion.org/2013-03-27-NEWS-inventor-of-adhd-says-adhd-is-a-fictitious-disease.html?fb_action_ids=10201871001650126&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=.UqJUsAtIamM.like&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210201871001650126%22%3A146 356725540194%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210201871001650126%22%3A%22og .likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%7B%2210201871001650126%22%3A%22.Uq JUsAtIamM.like%22%7D

The German weekly Der Spiegel quoted in its cover story on 2 February 2012 the US American psychiatrist Leon Eisenberg, born in 1922 as the son of Russian Jewish immigrants, who was the “scientific father of ADHD” and who said at the age of 87, seven months before his death in his last interview: “ADHD is a prime example of a fictitious disease”

Richard
12-13-2013, 13:20
http://www.hoaxorfact.com/Health/inventor-of-adhd-called-it-a-fictitious-disease-facts-analysis.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/adhd.asp

Lots of issues related to this one, and opinion pieces couched as furthered scientific studies (like those on that WPU and other such 'news' sites) and out-of-context quotes (like the Eisenberg remark) floating around the blogosphere as 'sound-bytes' don't help the serious on-going research and debates, or the families and patients dealing with such a 'disorder' (not a 'disease'). Many health and educational professionals have for decades been concerned about ADHD misdiagnoses, mistreatments, and - given that many of the potential long-term side effects of the treatment medicines are as yet TBD - the future impact on children's health.

My advice, as a parent who dealt with an ADHD child and an educator who experienced and dealt with it in both the public and private school sectors, if you suspect your child might be suffering from such a disorder or if you’ve had a child recently diagnosed with it, carefully explore all the possibilities and get a second professional opinion in case your child has been misdiagnosed and mistreated (a problem in our 'take this pill and be cured' society).

And good luck.

Richard

stfesta
12-14-2013, 07:17
Some Jack-Wagon and my ex-wife tried to put my son on that shit. The result was I took custody and in 4 weeks his grades went from F's to A's.

Amazing what a belt and personal accountability will do.
Just my $0.02.
sf

TacOfficer
12-14-2013, 08:05
Father's prescription for my ADHD affliction:
"Get off your ass and do something!"

MtnGoat
12-14-2013, 08:30
I had a teacher, I think in the third grade, that couldn't deal with my hyper activity would send me outside to run around the playground. What kid wouldn't love that. Needless to say this hap major impacts in my development.

My son had it and we pulled him for about two years, three different pills and strengths.

Richard - well put words.

cbtengr
12-14-2013, 08:35
Some Jack-Wagon and my ex-wife tried to put my son on that shit. The result was I took custody and in 4 weeks his grades went from F's to A's.

Amazing what a belt and personal accountability will do.
Just my $0.02.
sf

Nothing wrong with that.

Richard
12-15-2013, 09:29
This is HUGE part of the issues associated with diagnosing and treating the disorder.

Richard

The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder: The Number of Diagnoses Soared Amid a 20-Year Drug Marketing Campaign
NYT, 14 Dec 2013

After more than 50 years leading the fight to legitimize attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, Keith Conners could be celebrating.

Severely hyperactive and impulsive children, once shunned as bad seeds, are now recognized as having a real neurological problem. Doctors and parents have largely accepted drugs like Adderall and Concerta to temper the traits of classic A.D.H.D., helping youngsters succeed in school and beyond.

But Dr. Conners did not feel triumphant this fall as he addressed a group of fellow A.D.H.D. specialists in Washington. He noted that recent data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that the diagnosis had been made in 15 percent of high school-age children, and that the number of children on medication for the disorder had soared to 3.5 million from 600,000 in 1990. He questioned the rising rates of diagnosis and called them “a national disaster of dangerous proportions.”

“The numbers make it look like an epidemic. Well, it’s not. It’s preposterous,” Dr. Conners, a psychologist and professor emeritus at Duke University, said in a subsequent interview. “This is a concoction to justify the giving out of medication at unprecedented and unjustifiable levels.”

The rise of A.D.H.D. diagnoses and prescriptions for stimulants over the years coincided with a remarkably successful two-decade campaign by pharmaceutical companies to publicize the syndrome and promote the pills to doctors, educators and parents. With the children’s market booming, the industry is now employing similar marketing techniques as it focuses on adult A.D.H.D., which could become even more profitable.

Few dispute that classic A.D.H.D., historically estimated to affect 5 percent of children, is a legitimate disability that impedes success at school, work and personal life. Medication often assuages the severe impulsiveness and inability to concentrate, allowing a person’s underlying drive and intelligence to emerge.

But even some of the field’s longtime advocates say the zeal to find and treat every A.D.H.D. child has led to too many people with scant symptoms receiving the diagnosis and medication. The disorder is now the second most frequent long-term diagnosis made in children, narrowly trailing asthma, according to a New York Times analysis of C.D.C. data.

Behind that growth has been drug company marketing that has stretched the image of classic A.D.H.D. to include relatively normal behavior like carelessness and impatience, and has often overstated the pills’ benefits. Advertising on television and in popular magazines like People and Good Housekeeping has cast common childhood forgetfulness and poor grades as grounds for medication that, among other benefits, can result in “schoolwork that matches his intelligence” and ease family tension.

(Cont'd) http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/health/the-selling-of-attention-deficit-disorder.html?pagewanted=all

Guymullins
12-15-2013, 10:55
My youngest son, now 17, was just passing his exams in the early grades. He has always been a super chap, obedient and respectful, but with a wandering mind that found great difficulty concentrating. My wife is a teacher and we both were pretty anti Ritalin and Concerta. Our boy was diagnosed as ADHD and we resisted any medication for a while until it became apparent that he was falling behind. We decided to give the meds a trial run for a few months. After the first day, his teacher approached my wife and said that she doesn't know what happened, but Matt was a new boy. He was no longer jumpy in class and was concentrating for the entire school day. My wife let her in on the trial, and Matt was closely monitored. He will be in his last year of high school next month and his grades have gone from barely passing to above 80% in Maths, science and computer science 98%. The are all above 75%. He has been advised to study Actuarial Science by the assessment professional we consulted to last month.
My wife says that he is one of the very few pupils (she taught him in grade 7) who has really benefitted from these meds in her 30 years of teaching. It is also very good for his sport, so he even takes it on Saturdays when he plays rugby or water polo. The only bad thing is his appetite deserts him while he is under the influence of the drug so we get him to eat a very big protein-rich breakfast before he takes his pills in the morning to last him through the day.

GratefulCitizen
12-15-2013, 11:34
How often is it that ADHD is a school-related problem?
Human beings have a wide variance of temperaments.

Some might not fit well into a generic system.
Round peg, square hole.

Rather than trying to change the kid, why not put them in a different environment?
Various adults prefer different places to live and different occupations; various kids probably do as well.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201009/experiences-adhd-labeled-kids-who-switch-conventional-schooling-homeschool

alelks
12-15-2013, 11:42
A HUGE problem in my area is that schools get extra money if a child is put on ADHD meds so they promote putting kids on it. It's a shame. Nothing like teacher diagnosing kids in school. :mad:

Yea, I know it takes a doc but with the school system pushing it many I'm sure are getting mus-diagnosed.

VVVV
12-15-2013, 12:00
I've lived with/suffered from ADD (undiagnosed - it was unknown during my childhood) my entire life...I'm in my 7th decade now, so don't tell me it is ficticous !! :munchin

Guymullins
12-15-2013, 14:16
A HUGE problem in my area is that schools get extra money if a child is put on ADHD meds so they promote putting kids on it. It's a shame. Nothing like teacher diagnosing kids in school. :mad:

Yea, I know it takes a doc but with the school system pushing it many I'm sure are getting mus-diagnosed.

One of the reasons we were so reluctant to try the meds is because my wife felt that Teachers and parents often used the meds to calm a kid who did not benefit from the meds in any way. For kids who don't need or benefit from the meds, it is a lazy way of controlling difficult kids. So, in short, I feel that the meds are a fantastic benefit for those few (perhaps very few) kids who react well to it.

Dusty
12-15-2013, 14:33
I've lived with/suffered from ADD (undiagnosed - it was unknown during my childhood) my entire life...I'm in my 7th decade now, so don't tell me it is ficticous !! :munchin

During your childhood it was probably called "hyper".

I've known several people with ADHD. One, I suspect, was just a cokehead who liked the Ritalin buzz, but several were basicallly hopeless unless they were on their medication or got by writing lists for everything.

It's the perfect malady for a golfer to suffer. Concentrate for a shot, then zone out and enjoy the scenery. :D

dollarbill
12-15-2013, 19:05
Some Jack-Wagon and my ex-wife tried to put my son on that shit. The result was I took custody and in 4 weeks his grades went from F's to A's.

Amazing what a belt and personal accountability will do.
Just my $0.02.
sf

Amen, living proof of that.

VVVV
12-16-2013, 08:08
During your childhood it was probably called "hyper".

I've known several people with ADHD. One, I suspect, was just a cokehead who liked the Ritalin buzz, but several were basicallly hopeless unless they were on their medication or got by writing lists for everything.

It's the perfect malady for a golfer to suffer. Concentrate for a shot, then zone out and enjoy the scenery. :D

Nope! I wasn't hyper...just unable to focus my attention in class, or reading a book.

I have a number of nephews who were diagnosed ADHD or ADD. After being held back in 1st grade and using Ritalin, one went on to graduate HS (football star, National Merit Scholar - Winner), earn aBA from Notre Dame ( magna cum laude), was awarded a full ride to a top 25 law school and graduated (magna cum laude) and is now a practicing attorney at a major law firm.. A second is now a practicing Veterinarian, and another is working on a masters degree in exercise science (he began using Ritalin in college).

cold1
12-16-2013, 17:17
My youngest son (5yo) has been diagnosed with ADHD. I was totally against giving him meds. I had been pressured from family both close and distant. I am/was convinced that he had a disipline problem and that could be corrected. He was diagnosed in May, from May to August I had been real hard on the disipline and it was working. He had been in kindergarden for about 3 weeks. Kindergarden isnt what it was 35 years ago, they have homework and goals now. Every night we did homework. Every night it was difficult. He had a hard time with everything we did and you could see the frustration in his eyes. On one particularly difficult night, i asked what was wrong. He broke down and told me that he "felt dumb". I figured that I could not disipline "smarts" into him. So I called the Dr the next day and set up an appointment.

The Dr. put my most of my fears to rest and luckily he is a great Dr with a philosophy of "the least amount needed". We started our son the following weekend on Concerta. We also had a meeting with his teacher to let her know whats going on and help us monitor him. He was a different child, in a good way, after the meds. He has made great strides since he has been on it. The meds have not changed him, only toned him down a notch or so. He is consitantly bringing home great grades and home work is done in afew minutes compared to hours before. He has come out of his shell in class and participates now. He is more confident with every aspect of learning now.

I would call it a sucess story except for one thing. In all my research and reading I cannot find anybody that is actively teaching the children a coping mechanism to deal with the ADHD and how to get off the meds. The concensus is to keep the kids on meds until they are adults. I dont like this. It seems that the kids and parents see the meds as a one step program that makes them smarter and do better in school. So the kids want to stay on the meds and there is a black market for the meds in most schools and universities. Luckily I have access to the PhD that helped diagnose my child and we have discussed this. Her children were put on meds too and every year she would let them try to go without the meds. SHe did not actively try to teach them coping mechanisms. I want to teach my child how to deal with his problem and instill some "mental disipline" so that he doesnt have to rely on the meds to "make him smart". Of course at 5yo thats not going to happen. I do plan on trying later, like 7 or 8, and see what can be done. I believe that it can be done but the child has to have the ability to reason, which only comes with time. For now I will begrudingly keep him on the minumum possible dose.

Paslode
12-16-2013, 21:03
In all my research and reading I cannot find anybody that is actively teaching the children a coping mechanism to deal with the ADHD and how to get off the meds..

Sure they are, they are teaching our kids that to cope with the problem they need to pop pills and ask for less requirements.


What I have heard from several other parents of ADHD kids is that a regimented lifestyle is one means of staying away from the meds. In addition if you can find an activity they can throw themselves into, that also can be a major benefit.

alelks
12-16-2013, 21:24
There is no doubt in my mind that I have ADHD. Since High School I haven't read 2 books. Books can't keep my attention as my mind is ALWAYS wondering. I would be reading and then have to go back and re-read what I just read as I was reading but I wasn't paying attention to what I was reading.

Articles or magazines I have no problem with or something that I'm VERY interested in.

Mentioned it to a couple of docs over the last 5 years but none of them took me seriously just like they didn't take my memory concerns seriously.

Oh, well! :)

Lan
12-16-2013, 21:54
There is no doubt in my mind that I have ADHD. Since High School I haven't read 2 books. Books can't keep my attention as my mind is ALWAYS wondering. I would be reading and then have to go back and re-read what I just read as I was reading but I wasn't paying attention to what I was reading.

Articles or magazines I have no problem with or something that I'm VERY interested in.

Mentioned it to a couple of docs over the last 5 years but none of them took me seriously just like they didn't take my memory concerns seriously.

Oh, well! :)

I have to highlight books to reference them because I forget things so easily and I can't convey messages well verbally so I don't talk much.

Docs want me to try ADHD medicine but I haven't filled the prescription yet. I believe it's misdiagnosed generally, but I might try it because I do believe it's a legitimate disorder.

Guymullins
12-17-2013, 03:37
If it works for you, it will be immediately apparent. If not, well, back and forth to the drawing board.

Paslode
12-17-2013, 06:41
Docs want me to try ADHD medicine but I haven't filled the prescription yet.

The first question that always comes to mind when the Doc's want someone to try some medication is there really a problem, or is the Doc pressing a product to earn Rewards Points from the Pharmaceutical Company.

Lan
12-17-2013, 10:33
If it works for you, it will be immediately apparent. If not, well, back and forth to the drawing board.

Agreed. What you're saying is exactly what I've read, and heard from other people who've taken it.

The first question that always comes to mind when the Doc's want someone to try some medication is there really a problem, or is the Doc pressing a product to earn Rewards Points from the Pharmaceutical Company.

Agreed. This is part of the reason why I haven't tried it, but I have to trust my own judgement. There's a stigma about marijuana in our society, so I can't use it without being ostracized even though I had more mental clarity when I used it. Popping pills isn't bad though! Pharmaceuticals have their place, but there are a lot of natural alternatives out there.

VVVV
12-17-2013, 12:08
Agreed. What you're saying is exactly what I've read, and heard from other people who've taken it.



Agreed. This is part of the reason why I haven't tried it, but I have to trust my own judgement. There's a stigma about marijuana in our society, so I can't use it without being ostracized even though I had more mental clarity when I used it. Popping pills isn't bad though! Pharmaceuticals have their place, but there are a lot of natural alternatives out there.

"Group Conclusion

After doing research to determine whether or not marijuana affects cognitive processes, we conclude that in fact marijuana does have detrimental affects on the brain and cognitive functioning. Specifically it affects short-term memory, long-term memory, and the ability to learn. Studies have helped to provide evidence that chronic use of marijuana can permanently damage regions of the brain, especially the hippocampus and cerebellum."

http://www.unc.edu/~jdumas/projects/marijuana1.htm


" Consequences of Marijuana Abuse
Acute (present during intoxication)

Impairs short-term memory
Impairs attention, judgment, and other cognitive functions
Impairs coordination and balance
Increases heart rate
Psychotic episodes

Persistent (lasting longer than intoxication, but may not be permanent)

Impairs memory and learning skills
Sleep impairment"

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/marijuana-abuse/how-does-marijuana-use-affect-your-brain-body


Not exactly conducive to learning!! Perhaps your problem pot induced AD, rather than ADHD,

Lan
12-18-2013, 11:53
I can't argue with a case study but it doesn't make me believe marijuana doesn't have benefits. A local news station did a report about a man whose son had epilepsy. Marijuana had reduced his sons seizures more than any prescription med had.

As far as ADHD is concerned, I can only speak from my own experience. I don't use marijuana anymore and I didn't start using until I was 28 so speaking about how its use would have affected my academic learning ability is not possible.

VVVV
12-18-2013, 12:32
I can't argue with a case study but it doesn't make me believe marijuana doesn't have benefits. A local news station did a report about a man whose son had epilepsy. Marijuana had reduced his sons seizures more than any prescription med had.


My ADD must be making it difficult for to see how that has anything to do with memory, or learning disabilities.

Surf n Turf
12-18-2013, 17:25
The first question that always comes to mind when the Doc's want someone to try some medication is there really a problem, or is the Doc pressing a product to earn Rewards Points from the Pharmaceutical Company.

OH no ----, another reason for not using ADHD meds. Long is good --- painful is bad :eek:
SnT

ADHD Medicine Can Cause Long and Painful Erections
The Food and Drug Administration released a safety announcement yesterday warning that methylphenidate products, one type of stimulant drug used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), may in rare instances cause priapism: a persistent and usually painful erection lasting more than four hours and occuring without sexual stimulation. Methylphenidate can be found in treatments such as Ritalin, Concerta and Daytrana.

The FDA has updated drug labels and patient Medication Guides to include information about priapism

Patients who take methylphenidate and develop erections lasting longer than four hours should seek immediate medical treatment to prevent long-term problems with the penis. If not treated right away, priapism can lead to permanent damage to the penis.
According to the FDA review, the median age of patients who experienced priapism was twelve and a half.

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/12/18/FDA-ADHD-Medicine-Can-Cause-Long-and-Painful-Erections

Paslode
12-18-2013, 19:40
OH no ----, another reason for not using ADHD meds. Long is good --- painful is bad :eek:
SnT

ADHD Medicine Can Cause Long and Painful Erections
The Food and Drug Administration released a safety announcement yesterday warning that methylphenidate products, one type of stimulant drug used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), may in rare instances cause priapism: a persistent and usually painful erection lasting more than four hours and occuring without sexual stimulation. Methylphenidate can be found in treatments such as Ritalin, Concerta and Daytrana.

The FDA has updated drug labels and patient Medication Guides to include information about priapism

Patients who take methylphenidate and develop erections lasting longer than four hours should seek immediate medical treatment to prevent long-term problems with the penis. If not treated right away, priapism can lead to permanent damage to the penis.
According to the FDA review, the median age of patients who experienced priapism was twelve and a half.

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/12/18/FDA-ADHD-Medicine-Can-Cause-Long-and-Painful-Erections


I wonder if methylphenidate is cheaper than viagra and cialis?

Paslode
12-18-2013, 19:44
How often is it that ADHD is a school-related problem?
Human beings have a wide variance of temperaments.

Some might not fit well into a generic system.
Round peg, square hole.

Rather than trying to change the kid, why not put them in a different environment?
Various adults prefer different places to live and different occupations; various kids probably do as well.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201009/experiences-adhd-labeled-kids-who-switch-conventional-schooling-homeschool


That brings up a good point.

I wonder if ADHD kids are typically 'Hands on' rather than book smart?

Paslode
01-07-2014, 10:06
More food for thought on the subject of ADHD from another Doctor..

“ADHD makes a great excuse,” Saul notes. “The diagnosis can be an easy-to-reach-for crutch. Moreover, there’s an attractive element to an ADHD diagnosis, especially in adults — it can be exciting to think of oneself as involved in many things at once, rather than stuck in a boring rut.”

http://nypost.com/2014/01/04/adhd-does-not-exist/

JHD
01-07-2014, 10:36
Sure they are, they are teaching our kids that to cope with the problem they need to pop pills and ask for less requirements.


What I have heard from several other parents of ADHD kids is that a regimented lifestyle is one means of staying away from the meds. In addition if you can find an activity they can throw themselves into, that also can be a major benefit.

My son is 8yo and was diagnosed with ADHD. No meds recommended right now. We are working with his diet, consistent routine, consistent bedtime with adequate sleep, and one ongoing sport per season. His teacher also makes sure he gets a snack I send to school in the PM to help low blood sugar, and has him sit on a exercise ball in class. He isn't the only one, and he likes sitting on it. She also lets him be the errand runner when anything needs to go to the office, just to let him get up and move when he needs to. Rather than handwriting assignments, anything over a paragraph he types in on a computer. Lots of patience (on my part) with homework needed, but with plenty of time and directed focus, he gets it done. Consistent punishment and follow through when he misbehaves is crucial, but that is the case with any child.

Trapper John
01-07-2014, 10:38
Dr. Saul makes a valid point. The basic problem is, however, that there is no definitive diagnostic test for ADHD or for other brain related disorders for that matter except perhaps for Parkinson's Disease. The best medical science can do is make a diagnosis based upon symptomology and psychometric testing. Treatments are even more limited and essentially amount to trial and error experimentation on each patient. Until such time as we have better imaging technology and can develop cell culture techniques to evaluate neurological function in the laboratory at the molecular biology level, there will be no other alternative.

To say that ADHD is a fictitious disease is doing a great disservice to those that suffer from these real and disabling symptoms. JMHO

dollarbill
01-07-2014, 12:17
http://www.healthcentral.com/adhd/c/268155/162810/add-adhd-fiction-real-disease

I listened to the interview the other day. Claims ADD/ADHD to be fictional and only for pharmaceutical companies to make money.

Flagg
01-07-2014, 14:45
My son is 8yo and was diagnosed with ADHD. No meds recommended right now. We are working with his diet, consistent routine, consistent bedtime with adequate sleep, and one ongoing sport per season. His teacher also makes sure he gets a snack I send to school in the PM to help low blood sugar, and has him sit on a exercise ball in class. He isn't the only one, and he likes sitting on it. She also lets him be the errand runner when anything needs to go to the office, just to let him get up and move when he needs to. Rather than handwriting assignments, anything over a paragraph he types in on a computer. Lots of patience (on my part) with homework needed, but with plenty of time and directed focus, he gets it done. Consistent punishment and follow through when he misbehaves is crucial, but that is the case with any child.

My boys are similar ages(nearly 9 and 7+).

Our kids are exceptionally active(like their parents) and can quickly push boundaries.

Big boundaries(safety/ethics/morals stuff) are easy for us to manage, but the small boundaries are time consuming for us to enact/enforce/reinforce.

We want to raise a couple of respectful but assertive boys willing to make good choices and take calculated risks.

This may sound a bit strange, but in some respects we see raising active boys(little girls seem like a completely different cute little alien species to this fella) has some similarities with raising dogs.

Leave active boys without enough physical/sensory input/output and they will start tearing up the place like leaving a Malinois in a one room apartment and expect it to follow a sedentary life without going off like wet dynamite.

When my boys and/or dog push the boundaries and start driving their mother nuts, I take them to the beach behind the house, throw them in the water(year round) and make them race until they're exhausted.

Modern pharmaceuticals are like little miracle pills for many people, but I view pharm as closer to the final tool(and an important one) in the toolbox for kids/ADHD.

And I'm concerned with the incentives by big pharm, medical community, schools, parents, etc to use pharm to excess due to the profit motive and a crutch for lazy teachers/parents.

As a layman/parent I wonder about the possible long-term effects on child/adolescent brain chemistry after years of prescription ADHD meds, but defer to any SMEs.

When teachers and other parents comment on how "full of energy" our kids are(code for going off like wet dynamite) that just tells me I need to dunk them in the ocean longer and run them faster and farther. :)

I've noticed some personal comments about perceived ADHD in posters themselves.

I have to admit to gaining a bad habit of reading multiple books concurrently. I have had increasing difficulty in starting and finishing individual books, particularly on Kindle/Ebook/PDF.

I find it a BIT easier with physical books, but still find myself doing it a bit with them as well.

JHD
01-07-2014, 15:36
Agree. The activity output needed is spot on. He does eat quite a bit, and he sleeps like a rock at the end of the day. His teachers just started having him type out his work. Getting the thoughts out of his head and on paper by pencil wasn't working. Complete turnabout in writing assignments with the change.

I was hyper as a child, too, and I admit as well to having several things going on at once. I just consider myself an efficient multitasker.;)but I think it is possible that I have ADHD, as someone mentioned above about reading things (contracts, etc., that are dry and uninteresting), but it hasn't hampered me in any way. I break things down and compartmentalize a lot to get things done.