View Full Version : Suppressor Questions
therunningwolf
12-05-2013, 14:36
I've searched around and done some reading but wanting to verify what I have read and seek some input from those with experience in this topic as I have no experience and the only knowledge from what I have read. I have wanted a rifle suppressor for some time now and since I am currently in a stable job and needing to build credit I have decided to go ahead and get one.
From what I am reading most suppressors attach by a special flash hider/ adapter. My rifle has a 14.5 inch barrel with a pinned and welded flash suppressor making it 16 inches overall, thus changing it out for a adapter will be a tricky task. Knowing this I started looking for a suppressor that that would fit over a A2 cage and found the Gemtech HALO.
My questions. Does anyone here have any experience with the Gemtech HALO? Have you noticed any significant POI shift? Would you recommend it? Is there another suppressor you would recommend that performs better but would require a special adapter? Thank you in advance for your time and input.
I own a HALO. The slightly older version, but it has not changed much. Here are some things to think about:
As far as the HALO goes, if I understand what you are asking, I would call GEMTECH first to make sure they say the flashider/comp whatever you are using is compatible with the HALO. Many are not.
Second, if you are really bent on your current configuration and GEMTECH says it should work, I would considered having the mount properly set up by a gunsmith with suppressor experience, or outright send the upper to GEMTECH.
The other thing about the HALO mounting is that you cannot and should not use a crush washer. You want to either use good peel washers or precision washers that are machined. Then on that, you will want the muzzle adapter of whatever you use rocksett’ed. (pinned and welded properly if you still use your 14.5)
-Rocksett if you are not familiar with it is a really solid “locktite”. It has awesome resistance to heat, which is what you need with a can. The nice part is that it can be removed with a proper soaking procedure. It has been discussed on this board before.
-The mounting and the choice of mount and washer is critical because if your Can is slightly out of line and you get a baffle strike it will really ruin your day. Also, possibly catastrophically ruin your nice Can that you waited possibly up to a year for. (They cannot always be repaired either, if you trash the tube, the Can is done and gone forever.)
With your upper you are discussing a pinned and welded muzzle adapter to remain compliant with NFA. Unless you intend to use the upper on a SBR lower or a pistol lower.
Dealing with a pinned configuration for the HALO could cause some issues for you. You might want to consider a 16'' upper, the configurations above, or choosing a different Can that fits your needs better.
Gemtech HALO? I like it. It’s not the best, but not the worst. It’s tough and does what I want it to do. There are other options out there as well. Look around and do the research. Don’t just listen to the Class 3 dealer and what they have in stock. Consider how much you really want to spend. Look at the actual test decibel reduction data from independent tests. Many Cans test the same and are vastly different in price and or quality.
I say this seriously because it’s a commitment to buy one. Once you have it you have it, there is not a huge market for used Cans out there. Although, I may have been known to buy them from time to time if they are dirt cheap. ;)
therunningwolf
12-06-2013, 15:08
Thanks for the input this is what I was looking for. I'm not really set on a model or even brand at this point, my inquiry about the Gemtech is simply because it is the only one I have found so far that says it would fit over the flash suppressor I have on my rifle. If there is a way to remove my FS and weld and pin a suppressor compatible one on it I would not be against this, I've just never heard of a pinned and welded flash suppressor being removed, is this possible without damaging the barrel in any way?
Call the guys from Griffin Armament and ask about their M4SD II. It fits over normal flash hiders. I think they usually have a spacer that goes behind the flash hider but I have seen one used with no spacer. I've got one in ATF Hades but have had a chance to shoot it. The sound quality is good - and I've got Surefire, AAC, TBAC, Silencerco, KAC , AWC & SAS suppressors.
http://griffinarmament.com/silencers/556-silencer/m4sdii/
Yes you can remove a pinned and welded flash hider and have a brake put back on (I've done it). Both Surefire and ACC have Brakes/Hiders that have predrilled holes to pin the muzzle device.
Another thought, get the SF 762SOCOM Mini. It's a .30 cal but it allows you to use 5.56, 300BLK, 308, 260, etc… The full-size 30 cal cans suppress better but the Mini is the same size as the 556 can.
A cheaper option is the SAS Reaper - A small company that does their sales thru Mile High Shooting Accessories.
The Reaper
12-06-2013, 18:38
Thanks for the input this is what I was looking for. I'm not really set on a model or even brand at this point, my inquiry about the Gemtech is simply because it is the only one I have found so far that says it would fit over the flash suppressor I have on my rifle. If there is a way to remove my FS and weld and pin a suppressor compatible one on it I would not be against this, I've just never heard of a pinned and welded flash suppressor being removed, is this possible without damaging the barrel in any way?
So you are going to pick a $1000 suppressor, based on whether it fits over a $20 flash suppressor?
TR
Thanks for the input this is what I was looking for. I'm not really set on a model or even brand at this point, my inquiry about the Gemtech is simply because it is the only one I have found so far that says it would fit over the flash suppressor I have on my rifle. If there is a way to remove my FS and weld and pin a suppressor compatible one on it I would not be against this, I've just never heard of a pinned and welded flash suppressor being removed, is this possible without damaging the barrel in any way?
Lots of reputable smiths can removed a pinned and welded flash hider provided it was done correctly.
I recommend http://www.adcofirearms.com/
they have done barrel work for me several times in the past and they will put whatever you want on in place of your current hider just send it with the upper.
My experience has been reasonable prices and quick turn around.
ymmv.
MK262MOD1
12-06-2013, 23:41
The Halo is a good suppressor. I used one in combat and bought one based on that experience. It is built like a tank and will work with your current configuration.
I own a lot of 556 suppressors. I like this one.
therunningwolf
12-10-2013, 17:02
Thank you for the replies. I've been reading up on the recommendations I've gotten here and looking into the Griffin Armament suppressors. Through them I found a dealer just a little North of me that keeps their suppressors stocked and I have been engaging him to get more info. Also thank you for the link to ADCO, I had heard of them a little while back but couldn't remember the company's name.
I have a question somewhat related; Is this Flash hinder an A2? And, are A2's used on any weapon system other than an M4?
http://news.msn.com/world/week-in-photos-big-freeze-big-waves-and-more#image=29
MK262MOD1
02-09-2014, 14:57
Rather hard to tell from that photo. It could be but looks to round on the breech side of the brake. An A2 will have flats for the wrench.
Yes the A2 brake is used on more than the M4. Several AR variants use it.
I have a question somewhat related; Is this Flash hinder an A2? And, are A2's used on any weapon system other than an M4?
http://news.msn.com/world/week-in-photos-big-freeze-big-waves-and-more#image=29
Penn,
I believe that is the business end of a FAMAS. They have a flash hider that looks like the A2 but does not have the wrench flats on the sides As mk262mod1 mentioned.
See pic below.
Perhaps someone more familiar with that weapon system can chime in as to the actual model name of their particular flash hider.
hope that helps
Tx, MK & 13, my question was not phrased correctly. I should have asked if the A2 flash hinder was used on weapons other than American. My deductive reasoning questioned the nationality of the soldier depicted in the photograph, based on the A2.
Using the flash hider or even the weapon would not be a good way to judge. Weird weapons that don't belong turn up all over the world all the time in places they should never be. Sometimes as well people have weapons they should not have intentionally to give the perception they are someone else.
Plausible deny ability, covert, foreign copy's, old US sales, or just some arms dealers and drug runners...anything can place a weapon anywhere. That goes for all sorts of other US equipment and vise-versa to other nation states equipment too.
FlagDayNCO
03-10-2014, 10:58
So you are going to pick a $1000 suppressor, based on whether it fits over a $20 flash suppressor?
TR
As TR stated, I strongly encourage the person buying a suppressor to ask the manufacturer what flash suppressor/ mount they recommend. Though some flash suppressor manufacturers indicate they can mount Brand XYZ suppressors, the actual fit may not be correct, as flash suppressor/ mount manufacturers and suppressor manufacturers often change manufacturing specs as the designs mature.
Another red flag is the pinning of a flash suppressor to your rifle barrel. As you read through a suppressor manufacturer's warranty, they may exempt a pinned and welded flash suppressor on a barrel.
Consideration also has to be given to the barrel length and gas tube length. The short barrel rifles and shorter gas tubes generally mean a much higher pressure exerted into the suppressor. Again, contact the manufacturer and determine what their product can tolerate.
I have been running SureFire suppressors and was informed that the warranty would be voided if I used it on a pinned flash suppressor.
I have to think if the pressure exceeds the capabilities of the suppressor, and the flash suppressor is pinned to the barrel, you're gonna blow out your $1000 toy.
As far as pinning a mount to a barrel, a decent mount will cost around $100-130 and then the cost for someone to professionally pin and weld it. It needs to be done by someone reputable and willing to certify it - get that on the receipt. For $200 you can just order up a tax stamp for an SBR.
FlagDayNCO reminds me of another important portion,
Some points on Threading and mounting from experience:
-Make sure the barrel shoulder, threads, and crown are all perfectly concentric to the bore. Many mass manufactured run off guns are not concentric to the bore and could cause baffle strikes due to misalignment. AK47’s and 74’s are notorious for this. Just threading the mount on does not mean it is safe. It would be good to have a good gunsmith that is good with a lathe to check the concentricity of these points. The point of this is that the outer barrel profile is typically not concentric to the bore. Surprisingly to many, when companies drill and rifle the barrels they are not dead center. For this reason the threading must occur concentric to the bore by either indexing from the bore or by threading between centers. The only part that you can get away with without between centers is the crowning. This can be achieved with a good pilot and
crown tool. It can be done in or out of a lathe if done carefully. Surf youtube for some videos on barrel threading as well if you want to have a better understanding of the how and why this takes place.
-If the suppressor is a thread on, often many companies have different standards of thread lengths that are required for a proper mounting. AAC published a PDF that you can download that has the threading specifications for all their suppressors. While this may not apply directly to your case, it is worth review to understand the aspects of threading in relation to concentricity to the bore and therefore concentric to the bore of the suppressor.
-The length of thread can also be cut in a manner that the muzzle break, flashhider or mount is properly timed to the correct orientation to the barrel. This is useful for a rock solid professional mounting. This is also useful in mitigating POA to POI shift as much as possible.
-Avoid taps and dies as this will not do what you want if you need to thread or correct a situation. Also remember that for a suppressor mount you really want tight threads, generally a class III thread. For ½ 28 you want to be close to .500 or better. There are international standards that cover these tolerances. A class II thread may be okay for a muzzle break or flashhider, but it will be far too loose for a suppressor.
-Finally, make sure you have a relief cut behind the threads. This is necessary so the threads do not run out inside the internal thread. The relief cut is typically .100 from the shoulder of the barrel to the first thread.
Another red flag is the pinning of a flash suppressor to your rifle barrel. As you read through a suppressor manufacturer's warranty, they may exempt a pinned and welded flash suppressor on a barrel.
I have been running SureFire suppressors and was informed that the warranty would be voided if I used it on a pinned flash suppressor.
Who from SF told you that? I'd re-ask the question as they make muzzle brakes with pre-drilled holes for pinning.
http://www.surefire.com/sfmb-556-1-2-28.html
"They also have blind pilot holes at the 6 o’clock position to enable indexing the adapter at bottom dead center, and to pin-and-weld on short-barreled rifles. All that is required is a basic hand drill and appropriate drill bits. "
Email Garin Lee - Garin@Surefire.com