Let's Talk About Islam

[Roguish Lawyer]

I'd like to learn about the different sects and stuff. You know, what's a Sunni vs. a Shia and that kind of thing. Ps.com's Islam for Dummies. Book recommendations would be good too, but I am hoping for some high-level explanations.

Now if we can get some disagreements among the knowledgable, this could be a great thread.

:munchin

[mumbleypeg]

5 To bear witness that there is none worthy of worship save Allah and that Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) is the Messenger of Allah.

2. To observe Prayer (Salat).

3. To Pay Zakat (Alms giving)

4. To perform the Pilgrimage to the House of Allah (Hajj).


5. To Observe fasting during Ramadhan." (Bukhari)

Shias and Sunnis

Ali is the central figure at the origin of the Shia / Sunni split which occurred in the decades immediately following the death of the Prophet in 632. Sunnis regard Ali as the fourth and last of the "rightly guided caliphs" (successors to Mohammed (pbuh) as leader of the Muslims) following on from Abu Bakr 632-634, Umar 634-644 and Uthman 644-656. Shias feel that Ali should have been the first caliph and that the caliphate should pass down only to direct descendants of Mohammed (pbuh) via Ali and Fatima, They often refer to themselves as ahl al bayt or "people of the house" [of the prophet].
When Uthman was murdered while at prayer, Ali finally succeeded to the caliphate. Ali was, however, opposed by Aisha, wife of the Prophet (pbuh) and daughter of Abu Bakr, who accused him of being lax in bringing Uthman's killers to justice. After Ali's army defeated Aisha's forces at the Battle of the Camel in 656, she apologized to Ali and was allowed to return to her home in Madinah where she withdrew from public life.
However, Ali was not able to overcome the forces of Mu'awiya Ummayad, Uthman's cousin and governor of Damascus, who also refused to recognize him until Uthman's killers had been apprehended. At the Battle of Suffin Mu'awiya's soldiers stuck verses of the Quran onto the ends of their spears with the result that Ali's pious supporters refused to fight them. Ali was forced to seek a compromise with Mu'awiya, but this so shocked some of his die-hard supporters who regarded it as a betrayal that he was struck down by one of his own men in 661.
Mu'awiya declared himself caliph. Ali's elder son Hassan accepted a pension in return for not pursuing his claim to the caliphate. He died within a year, allegedly poisoned. Ali's younger son Hussein agreed to put his claim to the caliphate on hold until Mu'awiya's death. However, when Mu'awiya finally died in 680, his son Yazid usurped the caliphate. Hussein led an army against Yazid but, hopelessly outnumbered, he and his men were slaughtered at the Battle of Karbala (in modern day Iraq). Hussein's infant son, Ali, survived so the line continued. Yazid formed the hereditary Ummayad dynasty. The division between the Shia and what came to be known as the Sunni was set.
An opportunity for Muslim unity arose in the 750's CE. In 750 except for a few who managed to flee to Spain, almost the entire Ummayad aristocracy was wiped out following the Battle of Zab in Egypt in a revolt led by Abu Al Abbass al-Saffah and aided by considerable Shia support. It was envisaged that the Shia spiritual leader Jafar As-Siddiq, great-grandson of Hussein be installed as Caliph

[mumbleypeg]

Abbass died in 754, this arrangement had not yet been finalised and Abbas' son Al Mansur murdered Jafar, seized Islam the caliphate for himself and founded the Baghdad-based Abbassid dynasty which prevailed until the sack of Baghdad by the Mongols in 1258.
Theological Differences and Attempts at promoting Unity
The line of Mohammed (pbuh) through Ali and Hussein became extinct in 873CE when the last Shia Imam, Al-Askari, who had no brothers disappeared within days of inheriting the title at the age of four. The Shias refused, however, to accept that he had died, preferring to believe that he was merely "hidden" and would return. When after several centuries this failed to happen, spiritual power passed to the ulema, a council of twelve scholars who elected a supreme Imam. The best known modern example of the Shia supreme Imam is the late Ayyatollah Khomeni, whose portrait hangs in many Shia homes. The Shia Imam has come to be imbued with Pope-like infallibility and the Shia religious hierarchy is not dissimilar in structure and religious power to that of the Catholic Church within Christianity. Sunni Islam, in contrast, more closely resembles the myriad independent churches of American Protestantism. Sunnis do not have a formal clergy, just scholars and jurists, who may offer non-binding opinions. Shias believe that their supreme Imam is a fully spiritual guide, inheriting some of Muhammad's inspiration ("light") . Their imams are believed to be inerrant interpreters of law and tradition. Shia theology is distinguished by its glorification of Ali. In Shia Islam there is a strong theme of martyrdom and suffering, focusing on deaths of Ali and, particularly, Hussein plus other important figures in the Shia succession. Shi`ism attracted other dissenting groups, especially representatives of older non-Arab (Mawali) civilizations (Persian, Indian, etc.) that felt they had not been treated fairly by the Arab Muslims.
Sunnis and Shias agree on the core fundamentals of Islam - the Five Pillars - and recognize each others as Muslims. In 1959 Sheikh Mahmood Shaltoot, Head of the School of Theology at Al Azhar university in Cairo, the most august seat of learning of Sunni Islam and the oldest university in the world, issued a fatwa (ruling) recognizing the legitimacy of the Jafari School of Law to which most Shias belong. As a point of interest, the Jafari School is named after its founder Imam Jafaf Sidiq who was a direct descendent through two different lines of the Sunni Caliph Abu Bakr. And Al Azhar University, though now Sunni, was actually founded by the Shia Fatimid dynasty in 969CE.
However, there remain significant differences between the two forms of Islam and these are what tend to be emphasized. Many Sunni's would contend that Shias seem to take the fundamentals of Islam very much for granted, shunting them into the background and dwelling on the martyrdoms of Ali and Hussein. This is best illustrated at Ashura when each evening over a period of ten days the Shias commemorate the Battle of Karbala, with a wailing Imam whipping the congregation up into a frenzy of tears and chest beating. It is alleged that instead of missionary work to non-Muslims, the Shia harbor a deep-seated disdain towards Sunni Islam and prefer to devote their attention to winning over other Muslims to their group. There is ongoing violent strife between Sunnis and Shias in Pakistan. On the other hand, in recent years there has been signification co-operation between the two groups in the Lebanon. And some of the most dynamic developments in Islam today are taking place in Shia-dominated Iran.
Practical Differences
On a practical daily level, Shias have a different call to prayer, they perform wudu and salat differently including placing the forehead onto a piece of hardened clay from Karbala, not directly onto the prayer mat when prostrating. They also tend to combine prayers, sometimes worshipping three times per day instead of five. The Shias also have some different ahadith and prefer those narrated by Ali and Fatima to those related by other companions of the Prophet (pbuh). Because of her opposition to Ali, those narrated by Aisha count among the least favored. Shia Islam also permits muttah - fixed-term temporary marriage - which is now banned by the Sunnis. Muttah was originally permitted at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) and is now being promoted in Iran by an unlikely alliance of conservative clerics and feminists, the latter group seeking to downplay the obsession with female virginity which is prevalent in both forms of Islam, pointing out that only one of the Prophet's thirteen wives was a virgin when he married them.

[Jo Sul]

Here is an excellent book:

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/HOUHIR.html

I read the first edition a while back, looks like it has be updated.

[mumbleypeg]

Is the head (Caliph) elected or is it a hereditary position. If you believe that it is hereditary, democracy is against your beliefs.

[Jo Sul]

Here is an interesting web site:

http://www.understanding-islam.com

[Ret10Echo]

http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/index.php

Wandered across this trailer...and I was wondering if anyone had seen the film:munchin

[JMI]

Yep. Although the one I saw was only an hour long.

We have a thread about it here. (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12282&highlight=obsession)

[Ret10Echo]

Yep. Although the one I saw was only an hour long.

We have a thread about it here. (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12282&highlight=obsession)

Thanks JMI....I figured it would be in here somewhere. "Obsession - " as opposed to "Obsession, " makes a big difference in the Search function...guess I got a bit too granular first time through.

[SF-TX]

Another good source:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam101/

Islam 101 addresses the following:

"Table of Contents

1) The Basics

a) The Five Pillars of Islam
b) The Quran -- the Book of Allah
c) The Sunnah -- the "Way" of the Prophet Muhammad

i. Battle of Badr
ii. Battle of Uhud
iii. Battle of Medina
iv. Conquest of Mecca

d) Sharia Law

2) Jihad and Dhimmitude

a) What does "jihad" mean?
b) Muslim Scholar Hasan Al-Banna on jihad
c) Dar al-Islam and dar al-harb: the House of Islam and the House of War

i) Taqiyya -- Religious Deception

d) Jihad Through History

i) The First Major Wave of Jihad: the Arabs, 622-750 AD
ii) The Second Major Wave of Jihad: the Turks, 1071-1683 AD

e) The Dhimma
f) Jihad in the Modern Era

3) Conclusion

4) Frequently Asked Questions

a) What about the Crusades?
b) If Islam is violent, why are so many Muslims peaceful?
c) What about the violent passages in the Bible?
d) Could an Islamic "Reformation" pacify Islam?
e) What about the history of Western colonialism in the Islamic world?
f) How can a violent political ideology be the second-largest and fastest-growing religion on earth?
g) Is it fair to paint all Islamic schools of thought as violent?
h) What about the great achievements of Islamic civilization?

5) Glossary of Terms

6) Further Resources"

[x-factor]

A couple of notes just off the top of my head...

- Caliph is not necessarily a hereditary position, but at times in history it has been handled that way. Also remember that there have been several different Caliphates (the Abbasid in Baghdad, the Fatimid in Egypt, the Ottoman in Turkey, etc), so its not an unbroken chain back to Mohammed. Also, the Caliph was often historically just a religious figurehead while the Sultan (a cross between governor and general, like most medieval lords) wielded the real power.

- If you're interested in understanding the philosophical cornerstone jihadist Islam then you must read Milestones by Sayyid Qutb. Trying to understand AQ's brand of jihadism without reading Milestones is like trying to understand communism without reading Marx. He's the critical link between the current jihadists and the original jihad theorists of the medieval period (chiefly Ibn Taymiyyah). Of note, one of the tenets of the jihadist brands of Islam is that jihad is "the sixth pillar," just as important as prayer, pilgrammage, charity, etc.

- I think one of the key things that one needs to realize when studying Islam is that it is not a religion of individuals like modern Christianity. Its a religion for an entire community (in that sense you might think of it as a sort of medieval twist on communism). Modern Christianity is about individual salvation and the believer's personal relationship with God. Islam (even the most moderate brands) is about building a community in this world. This doesn't mean that one can't be a Muslim in a non-Muslim land, but rather the religion is primarily concerned with the community, not the individual. From this you get the Muslim focus on the "legalization" (for lack of a better term) of religion: Shariah law, religious scholar-judges, fatwas (religious rulings on temporal matters), etc.

I'll put it like this, one of the things that really struck me when reading the Koran was the amount of legalistic detail. There's alot of what equates to "case law" in the Koran. For example, the section on divorce goes into great detail about the responsibilities of the man to his ex-wife in a variety of cases: if she brought property to the marriage, if there are children, if she remarries or not, etc etc. Now if you believe in the Koran, then as a society, you've got to construct an entire heirarchy to enforce all this detail.

During the development of Sunni Islam four respected schools of interpretation were created: Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, and Hanbali. (The Hanbali are the school that dominates the Arabian peninsula. From them spring the Wahhabists, from whom spring the jihadists like AQ). As with any religion, the schools differ on how to interpret the texts: which verses take precedence in what situations, how to apply Islam to situations not described in the Koran (often deals with technology), how to apply cultural traditions pre-dating Islam, how to apply reason to faith, how literally to interpret verses, etc.

One of the chief issues that concerns us is the way different schools interpret of the "sword" verses of Islam. Some schools interpret the Koran and Hadith such that jihad is confined to specific contexts and bound by certain mechanisms. Other schools (the ones we're fighting) believe that the sword verses, because they came after the live-and-let-live verses supercede/replace ("nasiq" if I remember the term right) Mohammed's early teachings of tolerance, consequently you get the notion of never-ending jihad as a way of life.

- One more note, if you're interested in a more moderate, modernist interpretations of Islam, you might like No God but God by Reza Aslan.

[SF-TX]

I highly recommend "The Truth About Muhammad: Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion" by Robert Spencer.

For a list of books on Islam:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/books/

[tom kelly]

As Admiral William Bull Halsey might have said"The only good muslim is a dead muslim." Regards,tom kelly

[jbour13]

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam by Robert Spencer is a good read. It is especially good when you take both the Bible and Koran/Qur'
an and reference the passages he states in the book.

Worthwhile and a quick read although it in my opinion has its bias towards exposing extremism. Not all a bad thing, but read the text itself to judge for yourself.

I have yet to read further into some of his recommended reading lists that he places throughout the book.

[SF-TX]

Not much has changed in over 100 years:

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome." - Winston Churchill, "The River War" (1899)

[crazyjake123]

A good short read that gives the history of Islam and Terrorism is "The Assassins" by Bernard Lewis. (http://www.amazon.com/Assassins-Bernard-Lewis/dp/184212451X/ref=sr_1_12/002-7308038-8667243?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192720503&sr=1-12) Great book...

[LongWire]

Anyone watching "Inside Islam" on Fox News???

[Dad]

Books on Islam:
Power, Faith and Fantasy by Oren
The Shia Revival by Nasr
Knowing Your Enemy , the history of radical Islam (forgot the author)

All have intereting insights

[The Reaper]

Dad:

You might want to re-read the registration message you got along with the stickies and Intros before posting again.

Best of luck.

TR

[Ret10Echo]

Wow...this will be exciting..:rolleyes: Wonder when the training camp add-on will be complete.


Virtual world for Muslims debuts
A trial version of the first virtual world aimed at the Muslim community has been launched.

Called Muxlim Pal, it allows Muslims to look after a cartoon avatar that inhabits the virtual world.

Based loosely on other virtual worlds such as The Sims, Muxlim Pal lets members customise the look of their avatar and its private room.

Aimed at Muslims in Western nations, Muxlim Pal's creators hope it will also foster understanding among non-Muslims.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7768601.stm

[olhamada]

I'd like to learn about the different sects and stuff. You know, what's a Sunni vs. a Shia and that kind of thing. Ps.com's Islam for Dummies. Book recommendations would be good too, but I am hoping for some high-level explanations.

Now if we can get some disagreements among the knowledgable, this could be a great thread.

:munchin


My dad, Louis B. Hamada, PhD, LittD, wrote several books on the topic, the most helpful probably being "Understanding the Arab World". Published by Thomas Nelson. He had an evangelistic ministry for 20 years that educated western Christians on the needs and methods of Muslim evangelization, and church planted in indigenous Muslim areas. He was also a consultant for Zwemer Institute, US Center for World Missions, Campus Crusade for Christ, Operation Mobalization, etc... and taught at various seminaries (Dallas, Columbia, etc...). He was originally Druze, but came to Christ in 1954.

[Roguish Lawyer]

I don't believe this site has been referenced here before:

http://www.radicalislam.org/

[T-Rock]

For the layman like myself, who‘s never been in the field with no real world experience, I found the following sites to be informative:

CI CENTRE (scroll down for their required reading list)
http://www.cicentre.com/required_reading.html
http://www.cicentre.com/Required_Reading_List_SEP2008.pdf
Ikhwan
http://www.cicentre.com/mb_infilitration_of_us.html

NEFA - Nine Eleven Finding Answers
http://www.nefafoundation.org/

From Sacred Texts to Solemn History - The Legacy of Islamic Anti-Semitism (Andrew Bostom)
http://www.andrewbostom.org/

[Warrior-Mentor]

CI Centre has great resource materials...you are switched on to reference it.

www.investigativeproject.org will keep you up to date on recent developments, as well as:

www.jihadwatch.com - by Robert Spencer.

[Retread]

This thread delivers. Thank you gentlemen, for the excellent insight.

[T-Rock]

Political Islam
http://www.politicalislam.com/

Wikiislam
http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Main_Page

Islam Review
http://www.islamreview.com/

Online Qur’an & Hadith
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/home/
http://quran.com/

New English Review
http://www.newenglishreview.org/NER_Magazine_Archives_by_Author/

Middle East Media Research Institute
http://www.memri.org/
http://www.memritv.org/

Faith Freedom
http://www.faithfreedom.org/

Apostates of Islam
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/links.htm

Ibn Warraq
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/isis/

POD
http://prophetofdoom.net/



Online Books:

Jihad: The Islamic Doctrine of Permanent War
http://voiceofdharma.org/books/jihad/

The Quranic Concept of War
http://wolfpangloss.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/malik-quranic-concept-of-war.pdf

Reliance of the Traveller online
http://islam.maxforum.org/2010/12/03/reliance-of-the-traveller-and-tools-for-the-worshi/
http://www.islamicbulletin.com/services/details.aspx?id=281

[Adam1680]

A few interesting notes:

1) Islam is the only religion that is not recognized in history by another religion or historian (i.e. Judiasm recognizes there was Christ and his activities around the proper time period).

2) The Koran contradicts itself. The explanation by main stream Muslims is that Allah could not give Mohammed the full truth at the beginning and only told him "full" truths much later. Therefore, most believe that if there is a contradiction, you follow the scripture from the later pages first.

3) Mainstream Muslims generally believe that everyone in the world is a Muslim, and that your parents simply were corrupted by Christianity (or whatever religion) and taught you wrong.

If you guys get a chance, google Dr. Sebastian Gorka's papers. He's a specialist on Islam at NDU and briefs all the incoming 18A's on Islam 101.

[Hornbill]

A few interesting notes:

1) Islam is the only religion that is not recognized in history by another religion or historian (i.e. Judiasm recognizes there was Christ and his activities around the proper time period).

2) The Koran contradicts itself. The explanation by main stream Muslims is that Allah could not give Mohammed the full truth at the beginning and only told him "full" truths much later. Therefore, most believe that if there is a contradiction, you follow the scripture from the later pages first.

3) Mainstream Muslims generally believe that everyone in the world is a Muslim, and that your parents simply were corrupted by Christianity (or whatever religion) and taught you wrong.

If you guys get a chance, google Dr. Sebastian Gorka's papers. He's a specialist on Islam at NDU and briefs all the incoming 18A's on Islam 101.

If I may, point #3 is very... general. I believe that it's true with some muslims, but I wouldn't call them "mainstream". I grew up a muslim, and I am nominally still a muslim (although if I spewed my beliefs in science and evolution and all that I'd probably get stoned or something, I'm slightly exaggerating).

I actually remember in a religion class in school, the uztazah (female teacher) actually mentioned something to the effect of point #3, but I don't remember her exact words. Most of the kids weren't really paying attention, my reaction (in my mind) was "what!?!? can I have some of whatever you're smoking? Must be some good shit) :D I'd say point #3 is true for lower income, less educated muslims, and false for the more educated ones.

Just my two pennies, I apologize if I'm out of line in this forum.

[Adam1680]

Sorry, I guess I should have caveated that "mainstream" means the majority of the people we'd deal with or have dealt with in the past 10 years (Iraq/ Afghanistan/ Pakistan, etc.) I have many Muslim friends in the western world that would not agree with these things because, of course, they have heard logical arguements against the thoughts and at the very least consider the possibility of them being correct. I would argue that western, educated Muslims are not the mainstream.

[T-Rock]

3) Mainstream Muslims generally believe that everyone in the world is a Muslim, and that your parents simply were corrupted by Christianity (or whatever religion) and taught you wrong.

Yep….:rolleyes:

The prophet “Big Mo” said: “No babe is born upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist” (Sahih Muslim, Book 033)

Meaning that every child is born into Islam but it’s the parents and worldly influences that later turn him into whatever they become…, and if left alone, he would worship only allah - “Deen ul Fitra.” That is why muslims don’t mention a lot about converting to Islam, they consider it reversion, or one who converts as a revert. http://www.islam101.com/dawah/newBorn.htm

Considering the letters both Bin Laden and Ahmadinejad sent to President Bush you can see how they were operating under Sharia Law. We were invited to Islam as a nation and since we declined, they were/are free to wage war against us…

“The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam”
http://www.historyandtheheadlines.abc-clio.com/ContentPages/ContentPage.aspx?entryId=1659089&currentSection=1653838&productid=40


“The Holy Koran stresses this common word and calls on all followers of divine religions and says: (3.64) Say: O followers of the Book! come to an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that) some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims. (The Family of Imran)”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/09/AR2006050900878.html

So now that we’ve been invited to Islam, but declined, the following is in store for us according to Sharia.., and all four schools of Islamic jurisprudence are in agreement with this ruling…




o8.1 When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed.

o8.2 In such a case, it is obligatory for the caliph (A: or his representative) to ask him to repent and return to Islam. If he does, it is accepted from him, but if he refuses, he is immediately killed

o9.6 (A: though if there is no caliph (def: o25), no permission is required).

c2.5 The unlawful (haram) is what the Law giver strictly forbids. Someone who commits an unlawful act deserves punishment...

(3) and unbelief (kufr), sins which put one beyond the pale of Islam (as discussed at o8.7) and neccessitate stating the Testification of faith (Shahada)...

o4:17 There is no indemnity for killing a non-Muslim...

(Reliance of the Traveller: A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law Pages 30-45, 588-595, 595-610).

Basically……

"Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him."
(Sahih Al-Bukhari)


Such a peaceful religion….:rolleyes:

[Richard]

Hmmmm...you don't accept Islam and bad things will happen (according to Muslims)...you don't accept Christianity and bad things will happen (according to Christians)...you don't accept Judaism and bad things will happen (according to Jews)...and so forth.

I think I'll just stick with the "Nature's Laws and the God of Nature" philosophy which just "is" and just try to live a reasoanble life as a reasonably good person.

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

[Hornbill]

The prophet “Big Mo” said: “No babe is born upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist” (Sahih Muslim, Book 033)

Well this is embarrassing, I've never heard of this Sahih Muslim fella :o

I have no doubt that all these rules and laws were written. It is very unfortunate that such angry people knew how to write, if only they were illiterate, we wouldn't have so many daggum rules!

Back to "mainstream" though, I guess it would depend on how "mainstream" is defined. If mainstream muslims buy this crap, I guess many then aren't mainstream.

Cheers...

[Adam1680]

The prophet “Big Mo” said: “No babe is born upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist” (Sahih Muslim, Book 033)

It is unfortunate that such angry people knew how to write, if only they were illiterate, we wouldn't have so many daggum rules!

Thanks for the quote as I got the abridged, summarized version and by no means am an expert. I got the information second hand from a very educated and experienced "Islamic expert".

Hornbill - A big problem is the lack of education and literacy. As you know already, the Koran is written in Arabic. People that speak Pashtu can't read the Koran and about 80% of Pashtuns can't read or write anyways (my Pashtu teacher always reinforced how our class could read/ write better than most Afghanis). They get the information from the tribal Maliks who received their version from someone else by mouth, etc. etc. A wicked unbreakable chain they are taught from children. It's pretty hard to convince an adult that everything he/ she's known since they were a child isn't right.

[Ancientwarrior]

I'd like to learn about the different sects and stuff. You know, what's a Sunni vs. a Shia and that kind of thing. Ps.com's Islam for Dummies. Book recommendations would be good too, but I am hoping for some high-level explanations.

Now if we can get some disagreements among the knowledgable, this could be a great thread.

:munchin

Here you are ;)

For Islam basics:
http://www.islam-guide.com/

Sects and shia:
http://www.islamawareness.net/Deviant/
http://www.islamlife.com/religion2/component/content/article/63-islamic-call/951-the-shia-religion-in-summary-

Islam in all languages (More details):
http://www.islamhouse.com/
http://www.chatislamonline.org/

Books:
http://www.sultan.org/books/


Looking for islamic view of x topic, Use this :
http://bemuslims.weebly.com/muslims-search-engine.html

AnWar :mad: - FTFSI - you need to go here and read ( http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3452 ) and then here to post an Intro ( http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=463371#post463371 ) and here to fill out your User Profile ( http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/member.php?u=29177 ) before posting again if you want to participate in this BB. Richard

[Hornbill]

Hornbill - A big problem is the lack of education and literacy. As you know already, the Koran is written in Arabic. People that speak Pashtu can't read the Koran and about 80% of Pashtuns can't read or write anyways (my Pashtu teacher always reinforced how our class could read/ write better than most Afghanis). They get the information from the tribal Maliks who received their version from someone else by mouth, etc. etc. A wicked unbreakable chain they are taught from children. It's pretty hard to convince an adult that everything he/ she's known since they were a child isn't right.[/QUOTE]

Adam1680 - Can't argue with you there. Even with good literacy rates, it's amazing how ignorant many muslims can be (personal opinion from personal experience, not a scholarly educated statement)

T-Rock - Imam Shafi'i must've been seriously constipated, always talking about killing and all that negativity!

Cheers...