View Full Version : Safe or unsafe diving
Wednesday a bunch of my local diving friends "old guys" as some call us decided to charter space on a new boat I Fajardo to go out today for two dives. All of us began diving with double hose regulators and we all still have them. After talking about the dive site we decided to back to basics and dive today with our double hose gear. It is amazing how small my dive bag was with Vintage Gear vs our Rec or Tec gear.
Well we showed up at 0630 and signed the forms and boarded the boat with another group of tourist. We started to set up and the Captian/DM started to question and then demand that we not dive that Museum Gear.
Well one of our group is a dive shop owner, instructor and the NAUI & IANTD regional manager rep. We discussed it in port and this idiot refused to take us out. All of us were dumbfounded ..... He said we could go to their shop and rent real gear and dive or get off. Well we said no way and departed. We went and got breakfast and discussed how to save e dives. Well in Fajardo shore dives are worthless so we are going to take out one of our guys 53' sport fisherman Sunday. The shop said if we walked they would still get paid which was stupid as I had put all our fee's on my AMX. One call to them and Poof it was gone.
Now I know this type of diving is safe as I do it often and my gear is well maintained just like my other diving gear and my jump gear.
What do you think? :munchin
A people crazy for diving Ventage Gear or not.
Peregrino
10-05-2013, 09:20
You think that's bad? Try engaging in a rational discussion of "TTPs" with cave or tech divers. I quit diving a couple years ago. My way or the highway incidents like this just reinforce the decision. As for the dive boat - smells like he was more interested in being "risk averse" and increasing his profit potential. Two minutes of (competent) observation would have revealed whether or not you guys know what you're doing. (Actually - a real buddy check - especially of the double-hose regulator - would probably have caused them to refuse to let you dive too. After all - only his "divemaster" is qualified to certify divers as ready to enter the water. :rolleyes: Course the regulators are probably older than any of the crew members!) Personally I would have been more interested in finding out where you get the maintenance parts to keep the double hose regulators functional. Given the last time I maintained two-hose regulators, all of the hoses, diaphragms, and O-rings were real rubber and dry rotted/got slimy as soon as they were removed from the packaging, that's an important question.
Javadrinker
10-05-2013, 09:27
As long as it is maintained and serviceable; mine is; then I see no reason that you should not keep using it.
Here are two places I get parts if needed.
http://www.vintagescubasupply.com/
http://www.vintagedoublehose.com/
there are some other sites to get parts but these have more than most.
Honestly my DA Aqua-Master still has all its original parts except a diaphragm and inlet outlet disk. I have service kits and it is still an easy breathing reliable regulator. I have two others and they were salvage jobs and I brought them back to life. Hated to see them just get thrown away. Now they are worth more than 5-6 times what they were new.
We figured that it was a liability issue but when we discussed it with him it boiled down to he was just stupid. His boat is just a platform. They do not guide just drop you off and pick you up. They have no agency liability and it says so on the release form. He just happens to be a DM. Funny thing he was doing his instructor cert for PADI and failed. Now I can see how. The other thing is Carlos who owns a dive shop had been taking students and tourists out on this guys boat and he was sooo pissed off he will never use him again.
Cave diving well you hit it on the head do what that bunch says or hit the road. They do seem to be adverse to open discussion. I do technical diving, deep, wreck, etc etc but never wanted to do Caves. I just did not like the odds and the mindset of most of them turned me off.
I do believe the last time I used a double hose regulator on a set of tanks was in 1975 - SFUWO School, AKA SCUBA School. Breathed easy, was soft and stretchy. No bubbles by the face.
The CCR 1000, Mk 15, Dragger, et al had double hose - don't want to can them regulators - but seemed stiffer, more hard.
Did like the T fitting on the CCR 1000 with the second regulator. Messed with a bunch of party boats of Sand Key.
Ambush Master
10-05-2013, 11:30
Looking at the picture on that first site, it appears that there has been a transition to Silicone/Synthetic material that would have unbelievable shelf life and long useful working life/durability!!
We've run into the same mindset @ Drop Zones when one of us FOGs shows up with a "Perfectly Safe/Airworthy" Rig that has 1-Shots or Shot & a Half Capewells!! Unless there is a Local FOG that understands, they try to tell us that they are hazardous and can not be jumped there!! Hell, I'm going to jump my old Pioneer 3-Pin Container, short-lined PC with a Lo-Po Belly Wart next weekend. I made close to 1K Jumps on that PC and it's been jumped several times in the last couple of years!! I'll be wearing a helmet-cam and will post photos after!!
Later
Martin
I worked for a dive shop in the Keys for over 10 yrs. I know of no shops that test or demand maintanance of a customer's gear. Drunk or unfit divers yes, but not so much gear..
The captain is something different. USGS and international sea law gives them a hole bunch of power.
As far as the shop demanding to keep your money,, F,, them, Call amx in front of them and cx the trx..
My $0.0002
Divemaster
10-05-2013, 18:25
If the gear is well maintained and works, I say screw that boat and take your business elsewhere. I dove with 1981 gear, including a horse collar BC (before they were called BCDs) for over 20 yrs before I upgraded.
If the gear is well maintained and works, I say screw that boat and take your business elsewhere. I dove with 1981 gear, including a horse collar BC (before they were called BCDs) for over 20 yrs before I upgraded.
We have. We are ready for the morning. Our boat will be at the same site in the morning as the idiots. We plan on having fun as always.. AMX was called while we were there. He just stood there with his mouth open as I CXLd the payment.
When I dive my Vintage gear I still use the horse collar. Short of not wearing UDT Shorts it is just like back in the day..... Shoot I even have 2 tanks with J valves to dive this gear. I do have a banjo adaptor for a pressure gauge. Never did like to wait until it was getting hard to breath and open it.
Looking forward to our bug hunt in the morning....
Diving that "Vintage" or "Museum" type gear, you have to ask yourself one question ...... What would Mike Nelson do ????
:D
Short of wearing UDT Shorts it is just like back in the day...
Now THAT would be a fully and universally understood, legitimate reason to deny you a boat ride.
Now THAT would be a fully and universally understood, legitimate reason to deny you a boat ride.
Not in KW.. :eek:
miclo18d
10-06-2013, 10:50
I'm actually new to diving but I work at a dive shop repairing dive computers. Talking to our equipment repair guy a few weeks back, he said that there was a sub-culture of guys and gals that dive the old retro stuff. Like driving your '38 roadster around. I say that if you can do it, go for it! And have fun! :D:D:D
WWMND?!!!!!!! :D
Oh now i am a subculture. :eek: nice to know what I am now:p
Well we survived and are cooking up the spoils.
As planned we were out early and tied up on the dive ball. As we were finishing up our first dive here comes Captian Dumb Ass. They pulled up with a small load of tourist and demanded that we move so they could tie off. Now there is another point 100m north but he was demanding to tie off there. He even tried to remove our mooring and we were about to have a problem.
Well we had a USCG Senior Chief and a PRPD Marine officer with us. They had something else to say to the Captian. The SrChief is the commander of the small boat unit in the region. They boarded Captian Dumb Ass's boat and made a radio call. Guess what his papers were not in order. Only 2 life jackets and a few other violations. The FURA (local PD Marine unit). Came over with the USCG 34' they were having a lot of fun as we departed to the next dive site. Sr Chief got word that they escorted them back to the marina and shut him down.
This was not what we figured how the day would turn out but if your going to be an ass have your registration, USCG inspection current and have your safety gear there.... Guess it was good that we did not go out yesterday.
Well we had 2 great dives, enjoyed each others company and relaxed on Remmys boat. Time for a few cold ones, food and story telling then back to SJ.
Shoot we took what we would have paid yesterday and put it into gas and we have enough fuel left over for next weekend. Now time for some food.:D
Peregrino
10-06-2013, 13:06
Obviously didn't know who he was f-ing with. One of the early lessons my first Team Sergeant taught me was not to mess with old guys; seems they "know things" and bad things happen when they get annoyed. Glad it all turned out well. Here's to beer on ice and bugs on the grill. SALUD!
they escorted them back to the marina and shut him down.
Hope the tourists used a credit card... LMAO
Hope the tourists used a credit card... LMAO
I do tooooo....
As planned we were out early and tied up on the dive ball. As we were finishing up our first dive here comes Captian Dumb Ass. They pulled up with a small load of tourist and demanded that we move so they could tie off. Now there is another point 100m north but he was demanding to tie off there. He even tried to remove our mooring and we were about to have a problem.
Well we had a USCG Senior Chief and a PRPD Marine officer with us. They had something else to say to the Captian. The SrChief is the commander of the small boat unit in the region. They boarded Captian Dumb Ass's boat and made a radio call. Guess what his papers were not in order. Only 2 life jackets and a few other violations. The FURA (local PD Marine unit). Came over with the USCG 34' they were having a lot of fun as we departed to the next dive site. Sr Chief got word that they escorted them back to the marina and shut him down.
This was not what we figured how the day would turn out but if your going to be an ass have your registration, USCG inspection current and have your safety gear there.... Guess it was good that we did not go out yesterday.
Well we had 2 great dives, enjoyed each others company and relaxed on Remmys boat. Time for a few cold ones, food and story telling then back to SJ.
Shoot we took what we would have paid yesterday and put it into gas and we have enough fuel left over for next weekend. Now time for some food.
Now THAT is exactly what Mike Nelson would do !!!!!!!!!!!
:lifter :lifter :lifter
:DWasn't there somebody around here who says not to "mess with old guys?
Ah, yes. It's "BMT":Don't mess with old farts...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill!
Now THAT is exactly what Mike Nelson would do !!!!!!!!!!!
:lifter :lifter :lifter
Where is Zonie, BTW? :confused:
Pat
Where is Zonie, BTW? :confused:
Pat
That's what I'm wondering too.
:munchin
If 'old equipment' is such a game stopper why do we still jump -10's?
Old does not equate to bad if maintained....you should of just kicked his ass overboard and gone diving.
UWOA (RIP)
10-06-2013, 21:42
Wednesday a bunch of my local diving friends "old guys" as some call us decided to charter space on a new boat I Fajardo to go out today for two dives. All of us began diving with double hose regulators and we all still have them. After talking about the dive site we decided to back to basics and dive today with our double hose gear. It is amazing how small my dive bag was with Vintage Gear vs our Rec or Tec gear.
Well we showed up at 0630 and signed the forms and boarded the boat with another group of tourist. We started to set up and the Captian/DM started to question and then demand that we not dive that Museum Gear.
Well one of our group is a dive shop owner, instructor and the NAUI & IANTD regional manager rep. We discussed it in port and this idiot refused to take us out. All of us were dumbfounded ..... He said we could go to their shop and rent real gear and dive or get off. Well we said no way and departed. We went and got breakfast and discussed how to save e dives. Well in Fajardo shore dives are worthless so we are going to take out one of our guys 53' sport fisherman Sunday. The shop said if we walked they would still get paid which was stupid as I had put all our fee's on my AMX. One call to them and Poof it was gone.
Now I know this type of diving is safe as I do it often and my gear is well maintained just like my other diving gear and my jump gear.
What do you think? :munchin
A people crazy for diving Ventage Gear or not.
It's been some years ago, but when I was on the Sheriff's Dept. Water Rescue Team I responded to a vehicle in the river (an emergency response because we didn't know whether the vehicle was occupied) on the north side of Indianapolis. The only reason the water wasn't frozen was because of the swift current. Anyway, I went into the water and made my way to where the vehicle was. Long story short, I 'froze' two different single hose regulators in the open position because of the water's frigidity and the current. I finally went to my trusty 'old' double hose regulator and was able to complete the recovery.
So, no, I don't think you're crazy. I didn't go to a B/C for years because the black UDT vest I had was still serviceable and I preferred it.
With instructor certifications from PADI, NAUI, YMCA and British Sub Aqua, I was always able to hold my own if someone wanted to argue the merits of a piece of equipment ....
/
ZonieDiver
10-07-2013, 14:47
I was going to respond earlier, but enemy agents attacked me underwater, and I had to cut their air hoses on those "antiquated' double-hosed regulators! :D
(Prior to leaving Phoenix in May, I sold a lot of my dive equipment - including my USD "Royal Aqua-Master". One of my biggest disappointments when I started diving was the single-hosed regulator instead of a double-hosed. I picked one up as soon as I could.)
There are too many of these FNG instructors who know next to nothing (which isn't so bad), but think they know everything (which is).
Do not get me started on cave divers and their use of the word "stroke".
I was going to respond earlier, but enemy agents attacked me underwater, and I had to cut their air hoses on those "antiquated' double-hosed regulators! :D
(Prior to leaving Phoenix in May, I sold a lot of my dive equipment - including my USD "Royal Aqua-Master". One of my biggest disappointments when I started diving was the single-hosed regulator instead of a double-hosed. I picked one up as soon as I could.)
There are too many of these FNG instructors who know next to nothing (which isn't so bad), but think they know everything (which is).
Do not get me started on cave divers and their use of the word "stroke".
Ok now you sold some dive gear and did not offer us a chance to buy. I would have taken the Royal off your hands. I almost got a 25 yr anniversary gold one. Needed to get back to the house and the next day some one had snaked it. Only 1000 made......
Do you have a Phoenix nozzle ?
Be safe.....
ZonieDiver
10-08-2013, 11:35
Ok now you sold some dive gear and did not offer us a chance to buy. I would have taken the Royal off your hands. I almost got a 25 yr anniversary gold one. Needed to get back to the house and the next day some one had snaked it. Only 1000 made......
Do you have a Phoenix nozzle ?
Be safe.....
Alas, no Phoenix nozzle, and I'm ashamed to admit that over the past few years, I'd let the regulator fall into disrepair. I'd just used it when I was putzing around. I sold it to a show owner who'd been very good to me over the years (he was a 'punk-assed' kid when I first met him, and his mom certified me as a DAN O2 instructor, as well as a "Kayak Scuba" instructor). He'll get good use out of it.
I was not able to access computers much at the time, but should have found a way to make mention here. (I also sold my Aeris Compu-Mask, my DAN O2 kit, and My Cobra |"Fish N Dive" kayak at bargain-basement prices to a young, starting-out instructor who, in my opinion, had his head screwed on straight - of course, I got them at great prices, and simply passed it along, instead of getting what I could.)
I've promoted myself to the category of 'old-grumpy diver' now. I'll be the guy on the boat scoffing at the new toys. Someone asked me the other day if I was an "Emeritus" instructor. I said, "Hell, no...they charge for that. I just quit paying."
Too bad I have bee looking for one for one of my old regs for deeper diving. Looks like you down sized before the move.
I think I have obtained that status of "OGD" but I try to be quiet until one of the young ones makes a stupid comment.
Be Safe up there...
ZonieDiver
10-08-2013, 14:09
Too bad I have bee looking for one for one of my old regs for deeper diving. Looks like you down sized before the move.
I think I have obtained that status of "OGD" but I try to be quiet until one of the young ones makes a stupid comment.
Be Safe up there...
I decided that if 'it' wouldn't fit in (and later 'on') my vehicle (2006 KIA Sportage), 'it' wasn't going.
(I became a 'good friend' of 'The St. Vincent dePaul Society' (I don't care much for 'Goodwill'), sold stuff on Craigslist, and went to the 'Park and Swap' at the old Phoenix Greyhound Park for the first time in 35 years. Amazingly, I ran into two former students, both running their own little businesses there - I guess they paid attention in Econ. I also learned that the stuff I thought would sell first was the stuff I had to heavily discount at the end of the day so I didn't have to cart it away, and that I may have given away a lot of $$$ to The St. Vincent dePaul Society. :D )
I ended up modifying my "if it won't fit rule" a bit. I left an 80, my 'heavy' wetsuit and accompanying lead, as well as my RUCK in LA with my daughter and s-i-l. I'll pick up the ruck and return with it during the Holidays, but will leave the other's there for dive trips West. (My 'bride to be' came out to make the trip back with me, and I had forgotten that some women's view of 'two small bags' is not the same as mine.)
...I try to be quiet until one of the young ones makes a stupid comment.
So, you are usually talking before the boat leaves the dock? :D